An Unthinkable Question

Smitty · October 6, 2008

So, you seriously believe that what is going on here is just a lack of talent and age thing then, huh? You don't see any problem with the coaching? You don't believe there are under the radar, behind the doors type of problems with this team that is translating on the field? You think despite the record shattering bad performance this year, that we'll have a banner recruiting class again next year?

Hey, it's much easier to toss out a blanket indictment of a bunch of young men who will soon be moving on than to impune the head coach in whom you've invested so much emotional committment.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 6, 2008

RV is right about the quality of this board....it is disgusting.

This coming from the only Athletic Director (more than likely) that posts on a college football fan message board.

Quoner · October 6, 2008

This coming from the only Athletic Director (more than likely) that posts on a college football fan message board.

True - but we don't know how many other boards he posts on. I swear I just saw RollPizzaRoll over on the Auburn board saying some pretty insider-ish things. I wonder if he knew where he was.

UNT Mean Green · October 6, 2008

JUMP RATS JUMP
This goes to show how bad of a program and very sub par talent that Coach Dodge had when he took over the program.
IMHO, just about everyone has already forgotten how bad the NT FB program was when Coach Dickey departed. Some of you can say the scores were not as bad but there is a big difference on 2 yards and a cloud of dust and chunk the pumkin.
Ya'll were all drooling over yourselves when Coach Dodge was hired and the amazing freshman class he was able to recruit after about 3 weeks or so because of his committment to SLC's playoffs.
Ya'll were all drooling over this year's recruits and up to a couple of three games ago nobody could say anything bad about Coach Dodge without being hung out to dry.
Ok, now we are 0-5 and just about everyone who was drooling over yourselves and others are now getting the lynch mob ready to turn on the man for, in your feable minds, implement a new system with sub par juniors and seniors who are getting beat out by freshmen and sophmores. How much sense does that make?? Ya'll want to support a winner but when times get a little tough .... then .... ya'll want to jump ship and not even support the "FULL" program. My advise to ya......"good ridance" and have a splendid whine and cheese social because you are not the type of fans that this program needs. Drooling one day and bring out the lynch mob the next. Whew.
If some of the current players want to quit because of Coach Dodge's philosophy......let 'em go. At least the parents who are considering letting their son play for NT will feel comfortable with Coach Dodge's reputation that he has built all these years. NT needs this type of man mentoring these young men and developing moral character.
I truely believe that next year's class will be better.
Coach Dodge needs, at least, four years to right the ship to make it competitive.
To me if we go 0-12 or 1-11 I am not disappointed becuase of the level of talent that Coach Dodge is bringing in and if ya'll can't see it then ...... JUMP RATS JUMP!
RV is right about the quality of this board....it is disgusting.

:clapping:

Great post, agree 100%.

eulesseagle · October 6, 2008

I stand by my statements......what Coach Dodge inherited was terrible and IMHO no matter who RV, et al, hired for a coach he would have faced the same difficulty.....except.....Coach Dodge can recruit.

Nobody seemed to salivate when Coach Dickey got all his players "UNDER THE RADAR" .... essentially, ones that were, essentially, left over after all the other programs did the picking.....yea, we got some good players and don't get me wrong when I say this....we did get our share of players that didn't play for a year because of broken bones but looked good the year they did play.

I am saying what Coach Dodge inherited were not that good. One, because most of the players did not fit into his system and two, can you say slow, undersize and way too much body/baby fat?

I am excited about his recruits over the last two years (everyone is too because of all the drooling on this board) and everyone should be because it will only get better....I know that and you know that except for the "lynch mob" who wants to throw the mechanic under the bus on its first bump in a long journey. OK, who are ya goin' to get for the next head coach at this salary?? hahahahaha

Some of you have so much knee jerk reactions I personally think it is effecting your "logical" judgement and, again, IMHO, it is a wonder that some of you have not been seriously wounded in you whine and cheese parties by all this knee jerking.

Like I said, I am not overly concerned about this year but look forward to see Coach Dodge's next recruiting class. Believe me, ya'll drooled at the return of Coach DeLoach.....this man too is a proven winner.

gruu · October 6, 2008

I think most of us are not too upset that we are 0-5. It is the way in which we lost those five games as well as the lack of overall improvement during that time.

NT80 · October 6, 2008

I stand by my statements......what Coach Dodge inherited was terrible and IMHO no matter who RV, et al, hired for a coach he would have faced the same difficulty.....except.....Coach Dodge can recruit.
Nobody seemed to salivate when Coach Dickey got all his players "UNDER THE RADAR" .... essentially, ones that were, essentially, left over after all the other programs did the picking.....yea, we got some good players and don't get me wrong when I say this....we did get our share of players that didn't play for a year because of broken bones but looked good the year they did play.
I am saying what Coach Dodge inherited were not that good. One, because most of the players did not fit into his system and two, can you say slow, undersize and way too much body/baby fat?
I am excited about his recruits over the last two years (everyone is too because of all the drooling on this board) and everyone should be because it will only get better....I know that and you know that except for the "lynch mob" who wants to throw the mechanic under the bus on its first bump in a long journey. OK, who are ya goin' to get for the next head coach at this salary?? hahahahaha
Some of you have so much knee jerk reactions I personally think it is effecting your "logical" judgement and, again, IMHO, it is a wonder that some of you have not been seriously wounded in you whine and cheese parties by all this knee jerking.
Like I said, I am not overly concerned about this year but look forward to see Coach Dodge's next recruiting class. Believe me, ya'll drooled at the return of Coach DeLoach.....this man too is a proven winner.

I agree with staying positive as much as possible, to a point. 2-17 is hard to smile at. And things could go further south. :cry:

Edited October 6, 2008 by NT80

eulesseagle · October 7, 2008

I have watched NT football since Coach Mitchell's last year of 1966. In 1967 Coach Rust became the NT coach and did extremly well with Coach Mitchell's players. However, Rusk failed to capitalize on success and his last couple of years were loosing seasons and NT football traveled into the abyss. Coach Fry took over the program in much the same state as Coach Dodge. He was not too successful initially but built the program into a power until he left for Iowa. BTW, NT could have had his assistant coach Bill Synder .... the same Bill Synder that KSU stadium is named after. Anyway, the program went into the abyss because of changes...we all know what they were. Coach Dickey took over and was successful after about his "fourth" year and recruiting subsided because, IMHO, stealth recruiting.

Coach Dodge now takes over reviving a program out of the abyss. The one aspect I have seen with Coach Dodge is his ability to "RECRUIT." I put him in a class of the last couple of years of Coach's Mitchell and Fry on his recruiting ability. The wins will come from quality players. Heck they are only freshmen and sophmores now.

I only say this out of having a reference point to the past. Many of you only have a reference point to Coach Dickey and the '90's.

Quoner, CG, yyz28 & Smitty......since you can only name call on arguments and have no reference point or can piece together a legitimate argument in rebutal then so be it......I take your trite comments as borish pre-school diatribe.

Smitty, I would like to point out, since you referenced my mentioning of morality, Tom Landry when he walked into a team meeting would go to the chalk board and write, "God, Family, Football," and told the team that is the way one should order their lives.

Also Smitty, there is a good book review on the ESPN website called, "Ten Men You Meet in a Huddle" concerning Coach Dodd of Georgia Tech. He was quoted as saying that he wanted three things from his team (and I am paraphrasing)....one, go to church, two go to class and three go to football practice. Not unless you want the morality lessons of Barry Switzer of Oklahoma then you make the choice who you would rather have your son go for guidance on a football team.

Coach Dodge is a winner that I have only seen two other times since 1966. Just remember there is more to this season than the final W-L record in December.

Green Guy Bass · October 7, 2008

I have watched NT football since Coach Mitchell's last year of 1966. In 1967 Coach Rust became the NT coach and did extremly well with Coach Mitchell's players. However, Rusk failed to capitalize on success and his last couple of years were loosing seasons and NT football traveled into the abyss. Coach Fry took over the program in much the same state as Coach Dodge. He was not too successful initially but built the program into a power until he left for Iowa. BTW, NT could have had his assistant coach Bill Synder .... the same Bill Synder that KSU stadium is named after. Anyway, the program went into the abyss because of changes...we all know what they were. Coach Dickey took over and was successful after about his "fourth" year and recruiting subsided because, IMHO, stealth recruiting.
Coach Dodge now takes over reviving a program out of the abyss. The one aspect I have seen with Coach Dodge is his ability to "RECRUIT." I put him in a class of the last couple of years of Coach's Mitchell and Fry on his recruiting ability. The wins will come from quality players. Heck they are only freshmen and sophmores now.
I only say this out of having a reference point to the past. Many of you only have a reference point to Coach Dickey and the '90's.
Quoner, CG, yyz28 & Smitty......since you can only name call on arguments and have no reference point or can piece together a legitimate argument in rebutal then so be it......I take your trite comments as borish pre-school diatribe.
Smitty, I would like to point out, since you referenced my mentioning of morality, Tom Landry when he walked into a team meeting would go to the chalk board and write, "God, Family, Football," and told the team that is the way one should order their lives.
Also Smitty, there is a good book review on the ESPN website called, "Ten Men You Meet in a Huddle" concerning Coach Dodd of Georgia Tech. He was quoted as saying that he wanted three things from his team (and I am paraphrasing)....one, go to church, two go to class and three go to football practice. Not unless you want the morality lessons of Barry Switzer of Oklahoma then you make the choice who you would rather have your son go for guidance on a football team.
Coach Dodge is a winner that I have only seen two other times since 1966. Just remember there is more to this season than the final W-L record in December.

So is your shrine to Todd complete yet??

MeanGreenZen · October 7, 2008

Darrell Dickey had some amazing recruiting classes in his first years. After that, the quality of his recruiting classes dropped dramatically. What proof can anyone point to that demonstrates Dodge inherited a locker room full of studs? What is the record of the Dickey holdovers at North Texas? Now, I don't think this should be Dodge recruits vs. Dickey recruits (and maybe that is the problem with this team.) as there are several outstanding holdovers from the Dickey regime. I just wish there were more.

PHSCoach · October 7, 2008

I have watched NT football since Coach Mitchell's last year of 1966. In 1967 Coach Rust became the NT coach and did extremly well with Coach Mitchell's players. However, Rusk failed to capitalize on success and his last couple of years were loosing seasons and NT football traveled into the abyss. Coach Fry took over the program in much the same state as Coach Dodge. He was not too successful initially but built the program into a power until he left for Iowa. BTW, NT could have had his assistant coach Bill Synder .... the same Bill Synder that KSU stadium is named after. Anyway, the program went into the abyss because of changes...we all know what they were. Coach Dickey took over and was successful after about his "fourth" year and recruiting subsided because, IMHO, stealth recruiting.
Coach Dodge now takes over reviving a program out of the abyss. The one aspect I have seen with Coach Dodge is his ability to "RECRUIT." I put him in a class of the last couple of years of Coach's Mitchell and Fry on his recruiting ability. The wins will come from quality players. Heck they are only freshmen and sophmores now.
I only say this out of having a reference point to the past. Many of you only have a reference point to Coach Dickey and the '90's.
Quoner, CG, yyz28 & Smitty......since you can only name call on arguments and have no reference point or can piece together a legitimate argument in rebutal then so be it......I take your trite comments as borish pre-school diatribe.
Smitty, I would like to point out, since you referenced my mentioning of morality, Tom Landry when he walked into a team meeting would go to the chalk board and write, "God, Family, Football," and told the team that is the way one should order their lives.
Also Smitty, there is a good book review on the ESPN website called, "Ten Men You Meet in a Huddle" concerning Coach Dodd of Georgia Tech. He was quoted as saying that he wanted three things from his team (and I am paraphrasing)....one, go to church, two go to class and three go to football practice. Not unless you want the morality lessons of Barry Switzer of Oklahoma then you make the choice who you would rather have your son go for guidance on a football team.
Coach Dodge is a winner that I have only seen two other times since 1966. Just remember there is more to this season than the final W-L record in December.

Tell me what Dodge did in 2005 to fix that pile of pooh

moffat · October 7, 2008

"Ten Men You Meet in a Huddle" concerning Coach Dodd of Georgia Tech. He was quoted as saying that he wanted three things from his team (and I am paraphrasing)....one, go to church, two go to class and three go to football practice.

While DD was here he took the football team, his coaching staff and their familes to his church, the First Methodist Church of Denton the Sunday at the end of 2 days. The team sat together and the majority of team came.

This year Dodge did this and only had about 20 players (mostly the subpar, bare cupboard jr. and sr. players) show up. A lot of these guys attend that Methodist church or the church that was started by a former UNT football player.

Smitty · October 7, 2008

I have watched NT football since Coach Mitchell's last year of 1966. In 1967 Coach Rust became the NT coach and did extremly well with Coach Mitchell's players. However, Rusk failed to capitalize on success and his last couple of years were loosing seasons and NT football traveled into the abyss. Coach Fry took over the program in much the same state as Coach Dodge. He was not too successful initially but built the program into a power until he left for Iowa. BTW, NT could have had his assistant coach Bill Synder .... the same Bill Synder that KSU stadium is named after. Anyway, the program went into the abyss because of changes...we all know what they were. Coach Dickey took over and was successful after about his "fourth" year and recruiting subsided because, IMHO, stealth recruiting.
Coach Dodge now takes over reviving a program out of the abyss. The one aspect I have seen with Coach Dodge is his ability to "RECRUIT." I put him in a class of the last couple of years of Coach's Mitchell and Fry on his recruiting ability. The wins will come from quality players. Heck they are only freshmen and sophmores now.
I only say this out of having a reference point to the past. Many of you only have a reference point to Coach Dickey and the '90's.
Quoner, CG, yyz28 & Smitty......since you can only name call on arguments and have no reference point or can piece together a legitimate argument in rebutal then so be it......I take your trite comments as borish pre-school diatribe.
Smitty, I would like to point out, since you referenced my mentioning of morality, Tom Landry when he walked into a team meeting would go to the chalk board and write, "God, Family, Football," and told the team that is the way one should order their lives.
Also Smitty, there is a good book review on the ESPN website called, "Ten Men You Meet in a Huddle" concerning Coach Dodd of Georgia Tech. He was quoted as saying that he wanted three things from his team (and I am paraphrasing)....one, go to church, two go to class and three go to football practice. Not unless you want the morality lessons of Barry Switzer of Oklahoma then you make the choice who you would rather have your son go for guidance on a football team.
Coach Dodge is a winner that I have only seen two other times since 1966. Just remember there is more to this season than the final W-L record in December.

I've been watching UNT football almost as long as you. Yes, we've peed against the same concrete wall (in those glorious days before waterless urinals).

And at 2-17 to start, I can honestly say that I have never seen a winner like this at North Texas, either.

Look, maybe Dodge will turn this around. I certainly hope so. I feel terrible for these freshman and sophomores that are getting fed into the meatgrinder. I can accept losing while rebuilding, but I cannot accept the lopsided losses that are doing nothing but shattering these kids' confidence. The complete inability of Dodge to prepare a team to be even modestly competitive - never mind win - is an indictment of Todd Dodge, whether you want to hear it or not.

The king may have no clothes, but some don't want to hear it.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Smitty

moffat · October 7, 2008

Now, I don't think this should be Dodge recruits vs. Dickey recruits (and maybe that is the problem with this team.)

Ding Ding, Ding and all being spearheaded by Dodge.

yyz28 · October 7, 2008

Quoner, CG, yyz28 & Smitty......since you can only name call on arguments and have no reference point or can piece together a legitimate argument in rebutal then so be it......I take your trite comments as borish pre-school diatribe.

Are you seriously FOR REAL!?!?!? ROTFLMAO! You claim that four of us "name called" in arguments, yet you clearly haven't read ANY OF THEM. Not CG, Not Smitty, not me... NOT EVEN Quoner (I'm a little shocked too, but he showed restraint) called you ANY name. Then you call our "trite comments" "borish pre-school diatribe"s. Oh, the irony.

I was really in a crappy mood before I read your post, but you've sent me off to bed laughin'. Thanks EE. LOL!

Got5onIt · October 7, 2008

JUMP RATS JUMP
This goes to show how bad of a program and very sub par talent that Coach Dodge had when he took over the program.
IMHO, just about everyone has already forgotten how bad the NT FB program was when Coach Dickey departed. Some of you can say the scores were not as bad but there is a big difference on 2 yards and a cloud of dust and chunk the pumkin.
Ya'll were all drooling over yourselves when Coach Dodge was hired and the amazing freshman class he was able to recruit after about 3 weeks or so because of his committment to SLC's playoffs.
Ya'll were all drooling over this year's recruits and up to a couple of three games ago nobody could say anything bad about Coach Dodge without being hung out to dry.
Ok, now we are 0-5 and just about everyone who was drooling over yourselves and others are now getting the lynch mob ready to turn on the man for, in your feable minds, implement a new system with sub par juniors and seniors who are getting beat out by freshmen and sophmores. How much sense does that make?? Ya'll want to support a winner but when times get a little tough .... then .... ya'll want to jump ship and not even support the "FULL" program. My advise to ya......"good ridance" and have a splendid whine and cheese social because you are not the type of fans that this program needs. Drooling one day and bring out the lynch mob the next. Whew.
If some of the current players want to quit because of Coach Dodge's philosophy......let 'em go. At least the parents who are considering letting their son play for NT will feel comfortable with Coach Dodge's reputation that he has built all these years. NT needs this type of man mentoring these young men and developing moral character.
I truely believe that next year's class will be better.
Coach Dodge needs, at least, four years to right the ship to make it competitive.
To me if we go 0-12 or 1-11 I am not disappointed becuase of the level of talent that Coach Dodge is bringing in and if ya'll can't see it then ...... JUMP RATS JUMP!
RV is right about the quality of this board....it is disgusting.

SLC was a winner before Dodge and will be a winner after him.

Explain Dodge's record before SLC.

Smitty · October 7, 2008

ROTFLMAO!

Okay, what does that one mean? I admit, I am ignorant when it comes to text-message abbreviations. Sometimes I have to refer to wikipedia to figure out what's being said on this board (hey, the old guy has heard of Wikipedia!).

I'll look this one up...Rolling On the Floor Laughing My Ass Off. You know, I'm sure my dad had no idea what we were talking about when I was a kid - but he didn't LITERALLY not know what we were talking about it. I mean, he could understand what we said, even if we didn't make any sense.

I still haven't figured out why some attractive women are referred to as MILFs. What does the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (go ahead, look it up) have to do with anything? And do you think the young members of the MILF, which is a Philippine rebel group, snicker now when their leaders use that abbreviation?

Jeez, I'm old.

Quoner · October 7, 2008

Okay, what does that one mean? I admit, I am ignorant when it comes to text-message abbreviations. Sometimes I have to refer to wikipedia to figure out what's being said on this board (hey, the old guy has heard of Wikipedia!).
I'll look this one up...Rolling On the Floor Laughing My Ass Off. You know, I'm sure my dad had no idea what we were talking about when I was a kid - but he didn't LITERALLY not know what we were talking about it. I mean, he could understand what we said, even if we didn't make any sense.
I still haven't figured out why some attractive women are referred to as MILFs. What does the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (go ahead, look it up) have to do with anything? And do you think the young members of the MILF, which is a Philippine rebel group, snicker now when their leaders use that abbreviation?
Jeez, I'm old.

GILFs and DILFs enjoy your ignorance.

Smitty · October 7, 2008

GILFs and DILFs enjoy your ignorance.

So does my wife.

By the way, you made those up, didn't you? Cause they're not on Wikipedia, and if it's not on Wikipedia it does not exist. And, conversely, if it is on Wikipedia...it is completely true and very real.

Wait a minute, one of them is on Wikipedia.

GILF - Gilf Kebir is a plateau in the remote southwest corner of Egypt. Its name translates as "the Great Barrier." This 7770-square-kilometre limestone and sandstone plateau roughly the size of Switzerland rises 300m from the desert floor. It is known for its rugged beauty, remoteness, geological interest, and the dramatic cliff paintings and rock carvings which depict an era of abundant animal life and human habitation. The Gilf Kebir contains the Kebira Crater, a 950-meter (3,100-foot) impact crater, dating to fifty million years ago, and part of a field that spreads over 4,500 square kilometers (1,750 square miles) — more than seventy-five times larger than Earth's next largest known crater field.

Beautiful, isn't it?

AstroMike · October 7, 2008

While this has been painful, I am prepared to see how next season goes. What is difficult is that they seemed to play better last year and have shown little progress. I knew LSU, Tulsa, and KState would be tough ones, and the Rice game was competitve for awhile at 28-20 before things steamrolled, it is this last one that is difficult to stomach. The Sun Belt has some good teams in it, it's just we are no longer one of them. I think Dodge deserves time to establish himself with his own recruits before I pass judgment. They do show flashes on offense of what we were seeing last year, but like George Dunham pointed out, they seem to move the ball fairly well between the 30s, and can't stop giving up the big play on defense and have major special teams issues.

CMJ · October 7, 2008

I think it's safe to say eulesseagle can get off his high horse.

Look, we have every right to question the coach. I, for one, was never THAT on board with the Dodge hire - except for the good PR we recieved initially. However I also don't think the man should be canned after the year, despite the fact that I now fully expect to go 0-12. But it's a perfectly valid question to raise as we keep getting our doors blown off every week.

Despite the fact that I'm fairly young in relation to some of yall, I have followed NT athletics since I was just a kid because my folks were alums and I grew up in Denton. In the last 20 years, I've never seen anything this consistently bad from us. So yeah, we have every right to wonder WTF is going on.

Huff · October 7, 2008

Eulesseagle I agree with you that Todd Dodge is a fine man who is an excellent representative for The University of North Texas. I have not heard anyone doubt that. However, if you are in the coaching business you know that at some point in time you have to win games or you will have the opportunity to move on to another location. I hope that he is successful at turning this program in the right direction but it needs to happen soon or we are going to lose any ground that we might have gained.

CaribbeanGreen · October 7, 2008

Okay, now that our resident Desert Fox is done, I'll respond to the claim that none of us who dare criticize Dodge have any facts. Yes, he actually said that. Said it was a preschool debate.

Apparently the worst start in Sun Belt conference history by any coach EVER isn't good enough for the Red Baron.... that's just straight Ws and Ls, by the way, not even taking into account the humiliating, unprepared, submissive BS way we've lost most of those.

Apparently no red flags are raised by defections, cover-ups, discipine issues, a "pipeline" that never developed, staff changes, mistakes galore, and the fact that we have a high school coach with a career record more than ten games below .500 prior to arriving at SLC, where even a Frenchman could win. The losingest coach in SLC history is 12 games over .500, and Dodge's huge streak there isn't even the biggest at that stinking school in the last 20 years, Ledbetter's from 86-93 was longer. Good grief.

Oh... that's right... he took over a program "in the abyss"... the cupboard was SOOOO bare... per Tina: "Dodge inherited a former NCAA leading running back, a wide receiver who would become an honorable mention All-American, another wide receiver who very nearly became a member of the San Diego Chargers, and a Quarterback who would set multiple school single-game records before getting benched." Yeah. Sucks, man. A lot worse than what most coaches take over in new positions (where they almost always do MUCH better.).

Mario Cristobal took over a winless FIU program whose only notoriety came from a nationally televised brawl. Cristobal's team was maligned at every position, had no depth, worse fan support than at UNT, and a AD under NCAA sanctions. Dodge had all the above players, several starters he quickly benched, and was three years removed from a 26-game conference winning streak, which most schools will NEVER sniff. So, any reasonable person would assume that naturally, Cristobal owns the small of Dodge's back. Hard.

That's fine, though. None of it's Dodge's fault... until you can provide ONE compelling reason this thing is going to turn around in its present incarnation, I hope these facts are enough for you.

Oh, and until then, come on out to Fouts this Saturday... I think it will be right up Rommel's alley -- It's gonna be alot like Kristallnacht, and we ain't the Germans.

Edited October 7, 2008 by CaribbeanGreen

FirefightnRick · October 7, 2008

per Tina: "Dodge inherited a former NCAA leading running back, a wide receiver who would become an honorable mention All-American, another wide receiver who very nearly became a member of the San Diego Chargers, and a Quarterback who would set multiple school single-game records before getting benched."

I can't let the accomplishments of my man Jeremiah Chapman go unmentioned as well. Amazingly, he finished as the 2nd or 3rd best Defensive End in the nation last year with 78 total tackles. His 6.5 tackles per game ended up just keeping him off the Total Tackles list compiled by the NCAA, which is mostly dominated by Linebackers and D Backs. It's possible that last year's defense was one of the deepest, most experienced groups we have ever had, containing 17 Seniors who had started in one game or more during their carreers and over 1,000 tackles between them.

Rick