An Unthinkable Question

oldguystudent · October 6, 2008

Agree with you 100%.
I'm just going to come out and say it. Dodge needs to be FIRED if this team does not win at least 2 games, PERIOD. Do you really think improvement next year is coming if this team does go 0-12? What, 1-11 in '09 is an improvement??? Rice KILLED us with an OPTION QB. That's right folks, their starting QB was recruited to head their option attack. Now look at how well he's playing under the spread system. Now that's coaching, something this team does not have at the top.
Many people say give him 2 more years. WHY??? A new coach can get the SAME or better results in those 2 years.

One always hears disgruntled fans saying, "I could do a better job than that bum!"

Well in this case, since there is no lower we can sink, we could literally put a chimpanzee in a polo shirt on the sidelines, and the results would be the same.

VideoEagle · October 6, 2008

A new coach can get the SAME or better results in those 2 years.

I"m really, really curious on what you are basing this statement. New coaches are judged by how their teams perform when their first recruiting class are fifth year Seniors. That an additional three years. Coaches I've talked to have told me they would work at a school that didn't give them a fair amount of time. And the further down the program, the more time that would be needed.

We were expected by every reporter and unbiased analyst to be no better than 1-4 at this point. We're one game worse than that. The same people said we were going to only win three games at the most this year. A two win season was considered likely.

When Dodge was hired, a lot of us on this board wrote repeatedly to expect two years of very poor performances. Building from nearly scratch is extremely difficult and often demoralizing. But it is vital to building up a winning team.

Got5onIt · October 6, 2008

I"m really, really curious on what you are basing this statement. New coaches are judged by how their teams perform when their first recruiting class are fifth year Seniors. That an additional three years. Coaches I've talked to have told me they would work at a school that didn't give them a fair amount of time. And the further down the program, the more time that would be needed.
We were expected by every reporter and unbiased analyst to be no better than 1-4 at this point. We're one game worse than that. The same people said we were going to only win three games at the most this year. A two win season was considered likely.
When Dodge was hired, a lot of us on this board wrote repeatedly to expect two years of very poor performances. Building from nearly scratch is extremely difficult and often demoralizing. But it is vital to building up a winning team.

Well, after judging by what we've seen so far, tell me sir, where do you expect at least one win to come from? This is a serious question on my part, so be honest and give me details on why you think it will happen via certain SBC opponent? Convince me to think otherwise.

The team looks like they've flat out quit on him.

There are certain levels of ineptitude worth working through if one can see improvement. We all just want something positive to latch onto. I'm interested to know how many coaches take over a program and actually do worse in every phase of the game in their 2nd season? Let me repeat that, every phase of the game.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Got5onIt

KRAM1 · October 6, 2008

DODGE WILL turn this thing around...give him the 3-4 years any coach deserves to get it done...just hang in there....GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

yyz28 · October 6, 2008

Guys, give this up. Right now the Special Teams coach is going NOWHERE and there is a very good possibility he is not going anywhere after the season.
It's going to get worse, and probably not even on the field.

Why should we give this up? We all called for the DC's head last year and it happened. No reason the fan's shouldn't be LIVID at this Special Team's coach AS SHOULD THE HEAD COACH BE. ..he's simply not doing the job.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 6, 2008

Why should we give this up? We all called for the DC's head last year and it happened. No reason the fan's shouldn't be LIVID at this Special Team's coach AS SHOULD THE HEAD COACH BE. ..he's simply not doing the job.

You should be LIVID. Frankly if you are not, something is wrong. I am just saying that Dodge has no plans to make a change at this position. If you want a change at this position in terms of coaching, then you better start inundating RV's email with your request. And right now, it doesn't really matter what DeLoach wants, because if it were up to him, the coach in question wouldn't be here this year.

Edited October 6, 2008 by GoMeanGreen1999

flyonthewall · October 6, 2008

Guys,

Coach Dodge has got to make this work. He understands self evaluation. He is a good and succesfull football coach. If we need to improve in an area with coaching, he has proven that he will do that. One thing I have noticed about him is that there is no "kneejerk" reaction to anything. He takes his time in making decisions with thoughtful care.

How long after last years season did we find out about Mendoza not coming back? This man is a success and will be a success here. We can kick and scream all we want. He will still coach and teach these young men to the best of his ability. As he says, "quitting is not an option".

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 6, 2008

As he says, "quitting is not an option".

Tasty?

NT80 · October 6, 2008

Guys,
Coach Dodge has got to make this work. He understands self evaluation. He is a good and succesfull football coach. If we need to improve in an area with coaching, he has proven that he will do that. One thing I have noticed about him is that there is no "kneejerk" reaction to anything. He takes his time in making decisions with thoughtful care.
How long after last years season did we find out about Mendoza not coming back? This man is a success and will be a success here. We can kick and scream all we want. He will still coach and teach these young men to the best of his ability. As he says, "quitting is not an option".

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

Yes, Dodge has (had) a football plan. Well, the captain of the Titanic also had a plan to continue full speed ahead, even into an ice field. Sometimes plans must be changed or improvised to meet the current situation. The "wide open" offense isn't so wide open and the defense is defenseless. This team is headed towards the record books as the worst in NT history. Something needs to change before there is no fan base left.

Edited October 6, 2008 by NT80

moffat · October 6, 2008

Guys,
Coach Dodge has got to make this work. He understands self evaluation. He is a good and succesfull football coach. If we need to improve in an area with coaching, he has proven that he will do that. One thing I have noticed about him is that there is no "kneejerk" reaction to anything. He takes his time in making decisions with thoughtful care.
How long after last years season did we find out about Mendoza not coming back? This man is a success and will be a success here. We can kick and scream all we want. He will still coach and teach these young men to the best of his ability. As he says, "quitting is not an option".

Look everyone! RV's best friend is back to posting.

greenminer · October 6, 2008

New incentive plan: work or get fired.

moffat · October 6, 2008

Touche', Tasty. Not only has Dodge quit in every single game but he continues to put all the blame on the players and has yet to take any responsibility. He is teaching some great lessons on how to be a man and a good leader.

October 6, 2008

This is getting scary. The only winless season in our history was 1913 when we played our first game ever and that was the only one of the season. At that, we only lost to TCU 0-13; not a blowout.

I think that 0-12 is a very real possiblility this year. At best, we may slip by someone and have one win. I believe that's only been done once before as well although there have been a couple of others where we had one win and a tie or two. Since we only played 11 games in 1972, this will very likely go down as our worst record in our history (with a full schedule).

I know that the season isn't even half over and we must wait until the end before making any sort of decision on Todd Dodge's future here at North Texas. I'll give you that the talent level was subpar when he took over.

I also understand the gap between a high school and college coach. But, given his ability as a coach and the talent that he has infused, I can't believe that we have suffered five consecutive blowout losses, including one to the perennial bottom of the conference team, in Dodge's second year.

this team looks dead. I don't know the reason but you can sense that something is wrong. They're just going through the motions. Either lack of motivation by the coaches and/or the lack of team leadership is the probable culprit. For whatever reason this may be the most underachieving team in my memory (and when it's

working that covers a lot of years).

It's a shame that the collapse comes at a time when we need desparately to be increasing our attendance/fan base. I usually subscribe to a new coach being given four years to create a solid program but in this case we will have bled to death by then. I hope that we will take a strong look at stopping the bleeding if there is not improvement by season's end.

Huff · October 6, 2008

Grey, I agree with you that the team looked dead for most of the game. Very early in the game they seemed to play with a lot of emotion and enthusiasm but once that punt got blocked for a touchdown the wind seemed to go out of their sails. To be honest, it went out of mine, too. Having said that, I really do not think we can make a coaching change until the end of the season next year. We have to let this thing run its course and two years just is not long enough. I do think that we need to evaluate things at the end of next season and take a long hard look at our situation. If we have not made progress we might want to terminate this coaching experiment and the athletic director who conducted it.

Eagle1855 · October 6, 2008

I think you've got to give him through at least the end of next year. At that point, maybe re-eval, see if things are going in the right direction. I'd personally prefer seeing a chance with 4 years, all his own guys. But that's just me.

Of course, I too have many concerns with things I saw during the Rice game, including the staff seemingly conceding the game by going for a long field goal at the end of the first half, but whatever. Im no football coach, I just saw a lot of things that (to me) defied logic if the goal was to win the game.

Pen Yan Fan · October 6, 2008

None of this matters if RV is the one choosing coaches. The list of candidates RV was considering before hiring Dodge didn't sound much better than Dodge. The best sport in UNT athletics is women's soccer and that coach was in place before RV came around. RV has proven he can make tailgating better, but he has also proven he hasn't a clue about hiring coaches. By the way, has anyone checked out how bad the women's volleyball team is lately? One guess on who hired that coach

CMJ · October 6, 2008

Well Volleyball did win their division acouple years back I think. Things have gone really, really bad since however.

oldguystudent · October 6, 2008

RV has proven he can make tailgating better

That alone makes him ok in my book. Making a good tailgating environment alone should and has increased the fan base. I'd be pretty pissed off if I showed up and the tailgating scene was akin to sitting in the parking lot eating jello at a BYU game.

but he has also proven he hasn't a clue about hiring coaches.

As far as I can tell from the athletics site, he hired Johnny Jones.

My judgment of Ricky V is going to be heavily based on how he reacts to this impending 0-12 season and what repercussions are handed down as a result. If it's all unicorns and puppy dogs coming from the AD office in December, then we've got a serious issue. Again, call me crazy, but coming from the corporate world, if you don't produce two years in a row, there's not much sympathy from the higher ups, contract or no.

TIgreen01 · October 6, 2008

Grey, I agree with you that the team looked dead for most of the game. Very early in the game they seemed to play with a lot of emotion and enthusiasm but once that punt got blocked for a touchdown the wind seemed to go out of their sails. To be honest, it went out of mine, too. Having said that, I really do not think we can make a coaching change until the end of the season next year. We have to let this thing run its course and two years just is not long enough. I do think that we need to evaluate things at the end of next season and take a long hard look at our situation. If we have not made progress we might want to terminate this coaching experiment and the athletic director who conducted it.

I agree with Gray on this one. If this continues on the same plane we're currently on (blown out of every game by early second quarter), you have to look at making a change at THIS season's end. Dodge and staff could have earned themselves a lot of lee-way by not COMPLETELY burgaling last year's senior laden defense. The meltdown that ensued has cost him. I was prepared for this year ('08) to be bad before we even fired DD, but then I expected that DD could have gone 6-6 in '07 if everyone returned. Yes, I realize I just lost credibility there and I'm definitely not a DD apologist. You knew we were going to be very young in '08, so this year was setup to be THE rebuilding year no matter the coach. That said, the performance this year has been nothing short of (to borrow UNTFlyer's statement) apocalyptic....especially if the stadium vote fails.

eulesseagle · October 6, 2008

JUMP RATS JUMP

This goes to show how bad of a program and very sub par talent that Coach Dodge had when he took over the program.

IMHO, just about everyone has already forgotten how bad the NT FB program was when Coach Dickey departed. Some of you can say the scores were not as bad but there is a big difference on 2 yards and a cloud of dust and chunk the pumkin.

Ya'll were all drooling over yourselves when Coach Dodge was hired and the amazing freshman class he was able to recruit after about 3 weeks or so because of his committment to SLC's playoffs.

Ya'll were all drooling over this year's recruits and up to a couple of three games ago nobody could say anything bad about Coach Dodge without being hung out to dry.

Ok, now we are 0-5 and just about everyone who was drooling over yourselves and others are now getting the lynch mob ready to turn on the man for, in your feable minds, implement a new system with sub par juniors and seniors who are getting beat out by freshmen and sophmores. How much sense does that make?? Ya'll want to support a winner but when times get a little tough .... then .... ya'll want to jump ship and not even support the "FULL" program. My advise to ya......"good ridance" and have a splendid whine and cheese social because you are not the type of fans that this program needs. Drooling one day and bring out the lynch mob the next. Whew.

If some of the current players want to quit because of Coach Dodge's philosophy......let 'em go. At least the parents who are considering letting their son play for NT will feel comfortable with Coach Dodge's reputation that he has built all these years. NT needs this type of man mentoring these young men and developing moral character.

I truely believe that next year's class will be better.

Coach Dodge needs, at least, four years to right the ship to make it competitive.

To me if we go 0-12 or 1-11 I am not disappointed becuase of the level of talent that Coach Dodge is bringing in and if ya'll can't see it then ...... JUMP RATS JUMP!

RV is right about the quality of this board....it is disgusting.

Quoner · October 6, 2008

JUMP RATS JUMP
Drooling one day and bring out the lynch mob the next. Whew.
NT needs this type of man mentoring these young men and developing moral character.
RV is right about the quality of this board....it is disgusting.

Yay -a lynch mob reference. He's back, folks!

Yay - moral character!

Can we frame this post next to the Side Show Joe one?

CaribbeanGreen · October 6, 2008

That's fine, except we weren't REMOTELY in as bad of shape as you're claiming, EE. We had some players here. Some have plenty of research and evidence to back that up.

We had more than Cristobal got at FIU. At least as much as Stockstill at MTSU.

Next excuse?

yyz28 · October 6, 2008

JUMP RATS JUMP
This goes to show how bad of a program and very sub par talent that Coach Dodge had when he took over the program.
IMHO, just about everyone has already forgotten how bad the NT FB program was when Coach Dickey departed. Some of you can say the scores were not as bad but there is a big difference on 2 yards and a cloud of dust and chunk the pumkin.
Ya'll were all drooling over yourselves when Coach Dodge was hired and the amazing freshman class he was able to recruit after about 3 weeks or so because of his committment to SLC's playoffs.
Ya'll were all drooling over this year's recruits and up to a couple of three games ago nobody could say anything bad about Coach Dodge without being hung out to dry.
Ok, now we are 0-5 and just about everyone who was drooling over yourselves and others are now getting the lynch mob ready to turn on the man for, in your feable minds, implement a new system with sub par juniors and seniors who are getting beat out by freshmen and sophmores. How much sense does that make?? Ya'll want to support a winner but when times get a little tough .... then .... ya'll want to jump ship and not even support the "FULL" program. My advise to ya......"good ridance" and have a splendid whine and cheese social because you are not the type of fans that this program needs. Drooling one day and bring out the lynch mob the next. Whew.
If some of the current players want to quit because of Coach Dodge's philosophy......let 'em go. At least the parents who are considering letting their son play for NT will feel comfortable with Coach Dodge's reputation that he has built all these years. NT needs this type of man mentoring these young men and developing moral character.
I truely believe that next year's class will be better.
Coach Dodge needs, at least, four years to right the ship to make it competitive.
To me if we go 0-12 or 1-11 I am not disappointed becuase of the level of talent that Coach Dodge is bringing in and if ya'll can't see it then ...... JUMP RATS JUMP!
RV is right about the quality of this board....it is disgusting.

So, you seriously believe that what is going on here is just a lack of talent and age thing then, huh? You don't see any problem with the coaching? You don't believe there are under the radar, behind the doors type of problems with this team that is translating on the field? You think despite the record shattering bad performance this year, that we'll have a banner recruiting class again next year? Wow... I HOPE you're right. ...but I have my doubts.

Smitty · October 6, 2008

JUMP RATS JUMP
This goes to show how bad of a program and very sub par talent that Coach Dodge had when he took over the program.
IMHO, just about everyone has already forgotten how bad the NT FB program was when Coach Dickey departed. Some of you can say the scores were not as bad but there is a big difference on 2 yards and a cloud of dust and chunk the pumkin.
Ya'll were all drooling over yourselves when Coach Dodge was hired and the amazing freshman class he was able to recruit after about 3 weeks or so because of his committment to SLC's playoffs.
Ya'll were all drooling over this year's recruits and up to a couple of three games ago nobody could say anything bad about Coach Dodge without being hung out to dry.
Ok, now we are 0-5 and just about everyone who was drooling over yourselves and others are now getting the lynch mob ready to turn on the man for, in your feable minds, implement a new system with sub par juniors and seniors who are getting beat out by freshmen and sophmores. How much sense does that make?? Ya'll want to support a winner but when times get a little tough .... then .... ya'll want to jump ship and not even support the "FULL" program. My advise to ya......"good ridance" and have a splendid whine and cheese social because you are not the type of fans that this program needs. Drooling one day and bring out the lynch mob the next. Whew.
If some of the current players want to quit because of Coach Dodge's philosophy......let 'em go. At least the parents who are considering letting their son play for NT will feel comfortable with Coach Dodge's reputation that he has built all these years. NT needs this type of man mentoring these young men and developing moral character.
I truely believe that next year's class will be better.
Coach Dodge needs, at least, four years to right the ship to make it competitive.
To me if we go 0-12 or 1-11 I am not disappointed becuase of the level of talent that Coach Dodge is bringing in and if ya'll can't see it then ...... JUMP RATS JUMP!
RV is right about the quality of this board....it is disgusting.

Ah, the sweet religious fevor of blind faith. No proof needed. Just give me that old time moral character.