R V: Dodge Will Get Things Turned Around

Stan R · October 3, 2008

One might think that it would be better to wish for a change in direction when on a historic slide. Unless one were sliding into a huge vat of delicious chocolate pudding.

:lol:

Mean Green 93-98 · October 3, 2008

One might think that it would be better to wish for a change in direction when on a historic slide. Unless one were sliding into a huge vat of delicious chocolate pudding.

That is good! :lol:

UNTSIG · October 3, 2008

i guess after reading this board for a few years, nothing should suprise me but some of the complete lack of football knowledge is pretty unbelieveable. Everyone just says "TD was a high school coach, we are losing and RV is an idiot". What? I mean at least throw something out there about football. Talk X's and O's a little bit. Tell us what Dodge is doing wrong. How would you change this defense? Should he play more clock control on offense to help the defense out? The problem that you have here is that you can't point to stuff like that because TD is not doing a bad job as a coach. He took over a team that had won 5 games in 2 years. This might be his second season but he has only had 1 recruiting class. (we hired him like a month before national signing day). The team just doesn't have any athletes. Look at what is going on down at A&M. Mike Sherman was coach of the Green Bay Packers but the Aggies lost to Ark State. Are you going to try and tell me that Sherman is out of his league? No, it's the same thing that is going on here. HE DOES NOT HAVE THE ATHLETES HE NEEDS TO BE SUCCESSFUL. You guys were pissed that he TD made Riley into a wide receiver. Down in College Station, they have converted 2 quarterbacks to wide receiver because of the absolute lack of talent at that position. Sherman should know better right? I mean he "just an NFL coach". If two years from now, when Dodge's first "real" recruiting class is Jr's and this team is not being competitive, then you have free reign to bash him. Until then, you need to stop kidding yourself. I am not saying that you should not criticize the coach. All I am saying is that if you are going to criticize him, at least talk about football. BTW, the same D coordinator that had our defense in the top 25 in the nation just a few years ago, just gave up 77 points to Rice. Now is he out of his league too? Gripe if you want but at least gripe about something we can have a discussion on. TD can't do a thing about the talent that he inherited.

Quoner · October 3, 2008

Look at what is going on down at A&M. Mike Sherman was coach of the Green Bay Packers but the Aggies lost to Ark State. Are you going to try and tell me that Sherman is out of his league? No, it's the same thing that is going on here. HE DOES NOT HAVE THE ATHLETES HE NEEDS TO BE SUCCESSFUL. You guys were pissed that he TD made Riley into a wide receiver. Down in College Station, they have converted 2 quarterbacks to wide receiver because of the absolute lack of talent at that position. Sherman should know better right? I mean he "just an NFL coach".

Sherman has stapled some of the teams most productive receivers from last year in exchange for these new QBs and has been raked for it. He has been forced into making a QB change that he resisted to the point of insanity until injuries forced his hand and he stapled Javorski Lane to the bench for not blocking well as a converted fullback in practice until the last possible moment against Army. He is greeted by a lot of sarcastic applause for these decisions while in game and is mocked for attempting to blame his lost to ASU on the fact that his kicker was concerned about the coming hurricane.

There's a whole block of college football blogs that debate the entire question of whether a former NFL coach can make it in the NFL. The consensus is that he has to change his ways and not demand the perfection and flawless execution that is a given in the NFL. That is why for every Pete Carroll you see more Dave Wannestedt (even with the upset win), Al Groh or Chan Gailey.

Fans second guess things everywhere and have that right. The truth is no coach ever has all of the athletes he needs to be successful - the responsibility is to game plan for what you have as you build and get the most from your talent. If everyone felt we were getting the most out of the talent we had, there would probably only be a handful of people complaining.

I also got the impression that people were not questioning the position (some predicted that would be his role), but why his shirt was burned so abruptly when we have so many WRs on the roster.

Besides, we both know this is GMG - people are going to say stupid things about everything. The way to evaluate the year is improvement, consistent performance from the offense and the expectation that the D needs to be rebuilt from the ground up because of what a setback last year was. Is that fair?

It's also hard to talk X's and O's when every game has been over by half time. I think you'd see a lot more shop talk if there was a few small things to latch on to. People were fairly focused after LSU, but then the bye week and Rice kind of shot the wheels off of that.

I've rambled enough - let's go build a stadium together!

Green Dozer · October 3, 2008

Sherman has stapled some of the teams most productive receivers from last year in exchange for these new QBs and has been raked for it. He has been forced into making a QB change that he resisted to the point of insanity until injuries forced his hand and he stapled Javorski Lane to the bench for not blocking well as a converted fullback in practice until the last possible moment against Army. He is greeted by a lot of sarcastic applause for these decisions while in game and is mocked for attempting to blame his lost to ASU on the fact that his kicker was concerned about the coming hurricane.
There's a whole block of college football blogs that debate the entire question of whether a former NFL coach can make it in the NFL. The consensus is that he has to change his ways and not demand the perfection and flawless execution that is a given in the NFL. That is why for every Pete Carroll you see more Dave Wannestedt (even with the upset win), Al Groh or Chan Gailey.
Fans second guess things everywhere and have that right. The truth is no coach ever has all of the athletes he needs to be successful - the responsibility is to game plan for what you have as you build and get the most from your talent. If everyone felt we were getting the most out of the talent we had, there would probably only be a handful of people complaining.
I also got the impression that people were not questioning the position (some predicted that would be his role), but why his shirt was burned so abruptly when we have so many WRs on the roster.
Besides, we both know this is GMG - people are going to say stupid things about everything. The way to evaluate the year is improvement, consistent performance from the offense and the expectation that the D needs to be rebuilt from the ground up because of what a setback last year was. Is that fair?
It's also hard to talk X's and O's when every game has been over by half time. I think you'd see a lot more shop talk if there was a few small things to latch on to. People were fairly focused after LSU, but then the bye week and Rice kind of shot the wheels off of that.
I've rambled enough - let's go build a stadium together!

You know there have not been that many coaches come from high school to college. However, with the exception of Pete Carroll, the pro thing never seems to work out at the college level for the long haul.

stebo · October 4, 2008

That is exactly what I have been trying to say the past two seasons. As much as everyone wants to blame Dickey for our problems...he never lost to Rice 77-20. You are right that a good coach atleast coaches his team to compete....hell atleast for 2 or 3 quarters. By halftime the games are out of hand and its an embarrasment after that. It seems that most on this board is trying to give themselves satisfaction with Dodge by blame most if not everything on Dickey and I think that is totally wrong. Dodge knew what he was getting into from the team, players, NT history, stadium etc. I am willing to give Dodge more time and dont get me wrong...I really want him to succeed here but with the way the first 16 games are gone...I dont think my hopes are too high on that.

Holy crap, I never thought that people would start to have "good ole day" syndrome about Dickey. The guy HATED North Texas. He absolutely despised the board, the fans, and the administration. Dickey only worried about conference game - OOC games were literally "scrimmages" (yes, he actually said that to a group of us once).

Dickey never lost by that much to a team like Rice because he would give up before the game even started. He would simply run the clock. God, I wish that Scott Hall posted on this board - he would tell you about what playing under Dickey was like. A QB completely crippled by the Dickey system... use every second of the clock, hand off left, hand off right, play action, and the infamous dive play. The guy tried to throw a few things in on his own once and got benched until he could see the "error" of his ways. Dodge could easily run out a clock but that just send the message to the team that you don't think that they are very good. Well, if they aren't very good - you have to play through it to get better. I dunno, I do not like losing to Rice by 50 points but go back and watch the first quarter of the game. Someday we will be able to play 4 quarters like that and have a defense to stop people.

While we are talking about Dickey - you have to remember the black jerseys, Ramon trying to beat up a fan, and players getting bailed out left and right. I really wish that HALF of the legal issues that were covered up could be exposed. Books being stolen, ATM machines being destroyed, Assault and Battery charges, DRUGS, oh - did I mention drugs? We had players that were arrested one night and playing the very next day. We had a player in a terrible accident. What if someone had put their foot down and said - you know what??? There are certain things more important than winning. Todd Dodge is not winning games yet but he is training those kids to become MEN. We have a coach that does not look the other way. Some of these players that have left "on their own" know the truth... they know that Dodge isn't going to ruin their lives just to enforce a rule. He believes in second chances, just not on his team.

What would you rather have? Wins with a DANGEROUS system of looking the other way.... or wins and losses with a team that plays by the rules. We are already seeing the setbacks from the DD system of looking the other way, we have lost our first 5 scholarhsips thanks to this "hero".. Give Dodge some time to build this thing right and please realize that he has had to clean up a complete MESS along the way. These young players that are "beating out" the older "leftover" players probably just play by the rules whereas some of the older players are used to doing what they want and having a slap on the wrist be the norm. It is dangerous to run a program the way that Dickey did, those close to the program know exactly how much... and those are the people that are going to adamently back up Dodge for at least trying to do this with integrity.

Edited October 4, 2008 by stebo

eulesseagle · October 4, 2008

stebo-

good post

Green Mean · October 4, 2008

i guess after reading this board for a few years, nothing should suprise me but some of the complete lack of football knowledge is pretty unbelieveable. Everyone just says "TD was a high school coach, we are losing and RV is an idiot". What? I mean at least throw something out there about football. Talk X's and O's a little bit. Tell us what Dodge is doing wrong. How would you change this defense? Should he play more clock control on offense to help the defense out? The problem that you have here is that you can't point to stuff like that because TD is not doing a bad job as a coach. He took over a team that had won 5 games in 2 years. This might be his second season but he has only had 1 recruiting class. (we hired him like a month before national signing day). The team just doesn't have any athletes. Look at what is going on down at A&M. Mike Sherman was coach of the Green Bay Packers but the Aggies lost to Ark State. Are you going to try and tell me that Sherman is out of his league? No, it's the same thing that is going on here. HE DOES NOT HAVE THE ATHLETES HE NEEDS TO BE SUCCESSFUL. You guys were pissed that he TD made Riley into a wide receiver. Down in College Station, they have converted 2 quarterbacks to wide receiver because of the absolute lack of talent at that position. Sherman should know better right? I mean he "just an NFL coach". If two years from now, when Dodge's first "real" recruiting class is Jr's and this team is not being competitive, then you have free reign to bash him. Until then, you need to stop kidding yourself. I am not saying that you should not criticize the coach. All I am saying is that if you are going to criticize him, at least talk about football. BTW, the same D coordinator that had our defense in the top 25 in the nation just a few years ago, just gave up 77 points to Rice. Now is he out of his league too? Gripe if you want but at least gripe about something we can have a discussion on. TD can't do a thing about the talent that he inherited.

X's and O's is a direct reflection on wins and losses. After 16 games we dont need to look at X's and O's. 2-14 should tell you everything.

Fitzyrection · October 4, 2008

1) Dickey only worried about conference game - OOC games were literally "scrimmages"
2) Dickey never lost by that much to a team like Rice because he would give up before the game even started.
3) Todd Dodge is not winning games yet but he is training those kids to become MEN.
4) Wins with a DANGEROUS system of looking the other way.... or wins and losses with a team that plays by the rules.

1) Perhaps because Dickey was a rational person that knew we didn't have a prayer against teams like OU and LSU.

2) Dickey beat teams like Rice. Remember when his squad beat Baylor by 40+ in Waco?

3) Coach Dodge wasn't brought here for some cheesy boys-to-men storyline, he was brought here to win football games.

4) I'll take the wins. I also have yet to see your "wins and losses" under Dodge's "rules" system, only absolutely embarassing losses.

Fact of the matter is, any coach should be able to stay within 50 of Rice by their second year.

I don't understand all of the hate for Dickey on this board. I mean, the guy only won us 26 straight conference games.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Fitzyrection

stebo · October 4, 2008

1) Perhaps because Dickey was a rational person that knew we didn't have a prayer against teams like OU and LSU.
2) Dickey beat teams like Rice. Remember when his squad beat Baylor by 40+ in Waco?
3) Coach Dodge wasn't brought here for some cheesy boys-to-men storyline, he was brought here to win football games.
4) I'll take the wins. I also have yet to see your "wins and losses" under Dodge's "rules" system, only absolutely embarassing losses.
Fact of the matter is, any coach should be able to stay within 50 of Rice by their second year.
I don't understand all of the hate for Dickey on this board. I mean, the guy only won us 26 straight conference games.

I will take a coach that at least tries rather than waiving the white flag before the game starts. Troy and FAU have beaten top teams with far less talent.

No, I don't remember Dickey ever beating Baylor in Waco. Maybe that was a Playstation game for you? He beat them at home once during their coach's first year and got killed by them the next year in Waco.

Dickey was brought here to SPECIFICALLY recruit high school players instead of going the JUCO route. He let the players run the team. It was dangerous and in my opinion - a player quite possibly lost his life as a result of the reckless abandon of morals.

The wins will come and when they do, we will be winning with class - not by any means possible.

I think a lot of people hate Dickey because Dickey hates North Texas. Tit for tat.

Edited October 4, 2008 by stebo

rcade · October 5, 2008

How could you not miss Dickey a little when we're playing like this? I know the guy was an SOB, and I'm glad we're rid of him, but that doesn't make the way we're playing right now suck any less.

Travis · October 5, 2008

I don't miss Dickey at all... and i NEVER want him back.

I am not sure that we have proper leadership right now.

This has to be an all-time low.

CaribbeanGreen · October 5, 2008

we will never win 26 straight league games again. ever. most schools NEVER will. Those were the halcyon days of this program. i will never badmouth any of the NT legends who brought it to us.

bflan · October 5, 2008

Dickey was brought here to SPECIFICALLY recruit high school players instead of going the JUCO route. He let the players run the team. It was dangerous and in my opinion - a player quite possibly lost his life as a result of the reckless abandon of morals.

Really? This is a pretty bold statement, and in MY opinion, somewhat shameful.

stebo · October 5, 2008

It was tough for me to post that. I feel that way. I hope that it is does not offend anyone. I am not trying to be a jerk when I say that - I really believe it. I think that the team was out of control at times and I think that because we were winning, people looked the other way on a lot of issues. I think that it was the most tragic thing in the world and I start to tear up even thinking about it - but I really believe that sometimes you have to do the right thing in order to teach a lesson to someone before they harm themselves or others. I might be completely wrong. I have spoken to players about it and it was not just one person or player - many of them were doing the things that kids do in college. I am not a saint, I did my fair share of experimentation in college. I just would hope that the environment now would discourage this type of experimentation - not encourage it (or make it cool). Again, maybe I am wrong. I only knew about a handful of players in that era (some worked for me, some just came in to the bar to hang out with those that worked for me)... Things were very much out of control in the DD era. Maybe it is that way at every college program. I was talking with a guy on chat tonight that swore up and down that it happens at every program so maybe I am naive to think that NT should hold its standards up higher... I feel that Todge is doing that - holding kids to a higher standard when it comes to decisions... maybe that is why so many kids have left. Maybe I am out of touch. I just don't know.

I just had to respond to the post that seemed to be "nostalgic" about Dickey. Things were completely out of control under his guidance inn my opinion. I am just one person with one voice and I have the right to be wrong just like anyone else. I did not post that to offend anyone and I hope that it doesn't.

GangGreen · October 5, 2008

I would have to say that things are pretty out of control now too, Stebo.

Cr1028 · October 5, 2008

we will never win 26 straight league games again. ever. most schools NEVER will. Those were the halcyon days of this program. i will never badmouth any of the NT legends who brought it to us.

While I am grateful for this, I think the level of competition had a bit to do with it.

Here is a list of above .500 records within our conference for each year:

'98: 9-3, 6-5, 6-5

'99:10-3, 7-4, 6-5

'00:10-2

'01: 8-3

'02: 8-5(us), 7-5

'03: 9-4(us)

'04: 7-5, 7-5(us)

'05: 6-6, 6-5

'06: 8-5, 7-6, 6-6, 6-6

'07: 8-4, 8-5, 6-6

If the Big West had kept playing football we wouldn't have sniffed 26 straight. As for the dropoff in recent years, look at the improvement in the records.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Cr1028

Green Mean · October 5, 2008

Holy crap, I never thought that people would start to have "good ole day" syndrome about Dickey. The guy HATED North Texas. He absolutely despised the board, the fans, and the administration. Dickey only worried about conference game - OOC games were literally "scrimmages" (yes, he actually said that to a group of us once).
Dickey never lost by that much to a team like Rice because he would give up before the game even started. He would simply run the clock. God, I wish that Scott Hall posted on this board - he would tell you about what playing under Dickey was like. A QB completely crippled by the Dickey system... use every second of the clock, hand off left, hand off right, play action, and the infamous dive play. The guy tried to throw a few things in on his own once and got benched until he could see the "error" of his ways. Dodge could easily run out a clock but that just send the message to the team that you don't think that they are very good. Well, if they aren't very good - you have to play through it to get better. I dunno, I do not like losing to Rice by 50 points but go back and watch the first quarter of the game. Someday we will be able to play 4 quarters like that and have a defense to stop people.
While we are talking about Dickey - you have to remember the black jerseys, Ramon trying to beat up a fan, and players getting bailed out left and right. I really wish that HALF of the legal issues that were covered up could be exposed. Books being stolen, ATM machines being destroyed, Assault and Battery charges, DRUGS, oh - did I mention drugs? We had players that were arrested one night and playing the very next day. We had a player in a terrible accident. What if someone had put their foot down and said - you know what??? There are certain things more important than winning. Todd Dodge is not winning games yet but he is training those kids to become MEN. We have a coach that does not look the other way. Some of these players that have left "on their own" know the truth... they know that Dodge isn't going to ruin their lives just to enforce a rule. He believes in second chances, just not on his team.
What would you rather have? Wins with a DANGEROUS system of looking the other way.... or wins and losses with a team that plays by the rules. We are already seeing the setbacks from the DD system of looking the other way, we have lost our first 5 scholarhsips thanks to this "hero".. Give Dodge some time to build this thing right and please realize that he has had to clean up a complete MESS along the way. These young players that are "beating out" the older "leftover" players probably just play by the rules whereas some of the older players are used to doing what they want and having a slap on the wrist be the norm. It is dangerous to run a program the way that Dickey did, those close to the program know exactly how much... and those are the people that are going to adamently back up Dodge for at least trying to do this with integrity.

Stebo,

I am not saying Dickey was or is a saint by any means. Love him, hate him whatever you wanna think about him...he atleast won with what he had at the time. He may have had only 1 "great" recruiting class but it produced 4 sunbelt titles. Dont get me wrong...I am glad he is gone. I guess I am just beaten down by the fact that we had to hire a high school coach for our shambled program when Dickey got the boot. On top of that we wont pay coaches more than what many project managers or directors make in the corporate world. The whole thing from top to bottom in this football program really really sucks right now and I am not sure how we are going to get out of it.

Quoner · October 6, 2008

. I feel that Todge is doing that - holding kids to a higher standard when it comes to decisions... maybe that is why so many kids have left. Maybe I am out of touch. I just don't know.
I just had to respond to the post that seemed to be "nostalgic" about Dickey. Things were completely out of control under his guidance inn my opinion. I am just one person with one voice and I have the right to be wrong just like anyone else. I did not post that to offend anyone and I hope that it doesn't.

You make a lot of good points and it's not a question of character. If Dodge is really doing what Dickey didn't, than you are right and we should appreciate it more.

But if he's not... :ph34r:

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 6, 2008

You make a lot of good points and it's not a question of character. If Dodge is really doing what Dickey didn't, than you are right and we should appreciate it more.
But if he's not...

:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

GreenAlums · October 6, 2008

we will never win 26 straight league games again. ever. most schools NEVER will. Those were the halcyon days of this program. i will never badmouth any of the NT legends who brought it to us.

If the Sun Belt were again, as weak as it was then, we could win 26 straight. Can we repeat those glory days, sure! With the Sun Belt being as strong as it is now we would have to do it in with a bit different team.

GrandGreen · October 6, 2008

If the Sun Belt were again, as weak as it was then, we could win 26 straight. Can we repeat those glory days, sure! With the Sun Belt being as strong as it is now we would have to do it in with a bit different team.

I keep seeing people who downplay the 26 straight conference victories because of the oh so weak Belt in the day. However, NT never went undefeated in the Southland much less multiple seasons. There also has never been another team that has won the Belt outright, NT did that three times. The Belt is no doubt stronger now, but not as much as many believe, the sad fact is that NT has just fail so far that it seems that way. 26 straight conference wins is very rare, no matter what conference.

emmitt01 · October 6, 2008

There are certain things more important than winning. Todd Dodge is not winning games yet but he is training those kids to become MEN. We have a coach that does not look the other way. Some of these players that have left "on their own" know the truth... they know that Dodge isn't going to ruin their lives just to enforce a rule. He believes in second chances, just not on his team.

It's always a sad day when people are forced to see that behind the curtain the wizard is just an old man. I am not looking forward to that day... :ph34r: