R V: Dodge Will Get Things Turned Around

NT80 · October 3, 2008

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/...3.d5bba3e4.html

Huff · October 3, 2008

Wow, guys what a surprise. I just knew that I would read where Rick said "Damn, folks, I just screwed up didn't I? I hired a head coach with just about no experience at the college level. I let him bring several high school level coaches with him. I am really sorry. Can we have a do over?" That is about the only thing Rick could have said.

"""

UNT_playmaker · October 3, 2008

Let's see how fast he turns those comments around after Saturday night if we lose against FIU at FOUTS....

Nightmare season gets worst....

emmitt01 · October 3, 2008

Isn't the "vote of confidence" from your boss pretty much the kiss of death for a coach?

Got5onIt · October 3, 2008

Wow, guys what a surprise. I just knew that I would read where Rick said "Damn, folks, I just screwed up didn't I? I hired a head coach with just about no experience at the college level. I let him bring several high school level coaches with him. I am really sorry. Can we have a do over?" That is about the only thing Rick could have said.
"""

LOL

I agree with you. What the hell was RV supposed to say? Anything other than a positive vote for "his guy" would've made RV look like a complete idiot.

eulesseagle · October 3, 2008

Again, I have been watching NT play since the mid 60's. I have seen coaches come and go. I have seen the cycles of good and bad over 40 years.....longer than most of you who are alive and not as long as some.

This current team's overall talent ain't that good. I wasn't that good two or three years ago.

Nobody can turn a team around that is as deficient as this one in one, two or three years. However, for some of you....you think there is some "magic" pill that coaches give student players that will make them grow another two or three inches, gain another 40 pounds, make them a half to one second quicker and jump building in a single bound. It ain't happening. Instead of "reloading" every year NT has to "rebuild" along with most other non-BCS schools. We ain't Notre Dame, Texas or Oklahoma.

Believe me when I say this......I have seen a lot of coaches.....some I thought should have never been hired......some I thought should have been hired and were not.....some stayed here a year or two too long......and some were never given a chance.....and one that NT could not afford to financially keep. These ain't the best FB facilities in the world.....NT ain't got the best recruiting budget.....NT ain't got what a lot of other schools have like big buck donors.....but we seem to have an abundance of numb nut whiners who have "NO" starting reference point of past failures and success other than Coach Dickey. Looking back Coach Dickey did the best he could with what he had concerning resources. Evidently, his last couple of years lacked the recruits that NT needed to build upon more bowl games.

Coach Dodge is the "REAL DEAL" among coaches that I have seen come to NT but some of you "young guns" do not see this because of no reference point or experience of watching NT football for 20-30-40-50 years.

I see an enthusiasm and desire to win in a man that I have not seen in quite some time. Coach D is a motivational speaker and believes what he says as attested by anyone who has ever heard him. He is a proven "WINNER" on and off the field in all endeavors and he brings that to NT.

I support the coaching staff and the players and realize that rebuilding, with this current team, will take a little time but am 200% sure that the "ship" is headed in the right direction. Give his new recruits a chance to develop....heck they are only freshmen and sophmores and some of them are beating out juniors and seniors.....what does that tell you of the current state of quality of players.

Coach Dodge is the REAL DEAL.

Got5onIt · October 3, 2008

Again, I have been watching NT play since the mid 60's. I have seen coaches come and go. I have seen the cycles of good and bad over 40 years.....longer than most of you who are alive and not as long as some.
This current team's overall talent ain't that good. I wasn't that good two or three years ago.
Nobody can turn a team around that is as deficient as this one in one, two or three years. However, for some of you....you think there is some "magic" pill that coaches give student players that will make them grow another two or three inches, gain another 40 pounds, make them a half to one second quicker and jump building in a single bound. It ain't happening. Instead of "reloading" every year NT has to "rebuild" along with most other non-BCS schools. We ain't Notre Dame, Texas or Oklahoma.
Believe me when I say this......I have seen a lot of coaches.....some I thought should have never been hired......some I thought should have been hired and were not.....some stayed here a year or two too long......and some were never given a chance.....and one that NT could not afford to financially keep. These ain't the best FB facilities in the world.....NT ain't got the best recruiting budget.....NT ain't got what a lot of other schools have like big buck donors.....but we seem to have an abundance of numb nut whiners who have "NO" starting reference point of past failures and success other than Coach Dickey. Looking back Coach Dickey did the best he could with what he had concerning resources. Evidently, his last couple of years lacked the recruits that NT needed to build upon more bowl games.
Coach Dodge is the "REAL DEAL" among coaches that I have seen come to NT but some of you "young guns" do not see this because of no reference point or experience of watching NT football for 20-30-40-50 years.
I see an enthusiasm and desire to win in a man that I have not seen in quite some time. Coach D is a motivational speaker and believes what he says as attested by anyone who has ever heard him. He is a proven "WINNER" on and off the field in all endeavors and he brings that to NT.
I support the coaching staff and the players and realize that rebuilding, with this current team, will take a little time but am 200% sure that the "ship" is headed in the right direction. Give his new recruits a chance to develop....heck they are only freshmen and sophmores and some of them are beating out juniors and seniors.....what does that tell you of the current state of quality of players.
Coach Dodge is the REAL DEAL.

So because you watched football longer than how long I've been alive, makes my opinion (or any other person) worthless?

Well, how about I tell you that I played football since I was 7 years old, into high school, & at the college level, my brother played at a Divison 1 program, and I have friends playing at the NFL level? So that makes me an expert and your opinions junk. Seriously, it's all a matter of opinion, you are entitled to yours and we are entitled to ours.

My thoughts are inline with many here who feel that his program is at a critical point in time. Why did RV take such a huge gamble on such inexperience to lead this program? I was in support of getting rid of DD,but I refuse to believe the talent he left is this inferior. These recruiting classes came during the SBC championship run. Look at the SMU game the last 2 years. You can't tell me that you believe this team is worse, talent wise, than those 2 teams????? Look at what happened to Brandon Monroe & Germaine Dawson last year. Woody Wilson, one of the best athletes on the team left. Dibrell's gone, two CB's left with the racism fiasco last year. Meager demoted (I do think Vizza is the better player now) certainly not for his play last season. Cam, the best athlete on the offensive side of the ball when he's in, comes in every 3rd or 4th series. The list goes on & on. Where does it stop??

Edited October 3, 2008 by Got5onIt

eulesseagle · October 3, 2008

Got5onit-

Dude, read my post....i said some of you do not have a reference point of past teams as some of us who have watched NT FB for 20-50 years.

Your comment about this post is somewhat true and somewhat moot.

TheTastyGreek · October 3, 2008

Dodge took over a team that finished 5-18 in its final two seasons under former head coach Darrell Dickey before the 2007 campaign.

Wait... that's only 23 games! Not 24!

What a fascinating fact. Does Troy Phillips know about this?

mad dog · October 3, 2008

Wait... that's only 23 games! Not 24!
What a fascinating fact. Does Troy Phillips know about this?

Speaking of facts... wasn't there supposed to be some kind of talent comparison coming out on TY sometime soon? I thought the "Sun Belt getting better" analysis was intriguing; I'd be interested to hear part II.

In addition, I would love to hear your thoughts on why the word "intriguing" is so hard to spell.

GrandGreen · October 3, 2008

RV hired Dodge, do you really think he is going to admit that he made a bad choice. I do agree that it is too early to give up on Dodge and the team. but early results have to have even the biggest TD fan questioning if he was a good choice.

I have also watched games for about 40 years and I wonder how anyone can be so sure that Dodge will turn the program around. In that 40 years, I have never seen football as consistently bad as it has been in the last two seasons. Talent is an issue, the team that TD inherented was not very good. However, many seem to forget that last years team was one of the most experienced in NT history with 8 starters returning on defense among almost 50 returning lettermen.

I don't buy, TD recruits beating out upperclassmen as proof of a woeful talent deficit. The truth is the majority of the underclassmen that are playing or not due so much that they are beating out upperclassmen, but rather there are few juniors and seniors to beat out. Also, any team is going to have a number of freshmen and sophomores that start or play big roles including the most talented teams in the nation. Defensive backfield is probably the segment of the team with the biggest number of TD recruits contributing. The facts are after the loss of Green, Roman, Ealey, and Chatman. There were only two DD era players with any experience, Agbottah and Bush, and they are both starting. At running back there is only one DD holdover, Henderson, who is actually a fullback. At linebacker, there is only one TD recruit getting a lot of playing time, Penson. Nwigwe, Robertson, Mahon, Dawson and Warren are all DD recruits. Defensive line's rotation of nine players include DD's players Miller (now injured), Thomas, Owusu-Hemeng, Davenport, Brown, Ross and Sykes. Russo, junior college Cole and apparently soon Franklin are TD players who are in the rotation. The only TD underclassmen offensive lineman to contribute is Johnson. Wide receivers has only three ship athletes from DD era, Stickler, Fitzgerald and Johnson. It is strange that with the departure of Dibrell, despite being TD most recruited position, there are no major contributors from TD's first two classes.

I think it is obvious that TD's recruiting of skill players thus far is much better than any NT coach since Fry. However, I don't buy that so many freshmen and sophomores are playing because of a lack of 1a talent among DD recruits.

The lack of resources argument can be made for any NT football coach in the last 50 years and frankly doesn't apply well to Belt competition. In fact, with the recent improvements inclusive of the athletic center and practice fields, TD actually has it better than any recent football coach.

Most of us are hopeing that TD can quickly turn this thing around. I think he can, but I can't see how anyone can be satisfied with the progress so far.

Harry · October 3, 2008

They've had 4 games against some pretty stiff competition. Let us move away from the peanut gallery for a minute and give them the benefit of the doubt. I expect a very spirited game against FIU at home. It's our team and our coach, let's stick behind them in trying times or at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

NT80 · October 3, 2008

2-14: hanging onto an RV lifeline

2-22: out of rope?

GMoney · October 3, 2008

Let me take a little different approach here and not focus on TD but on what RV is saying. Is he going to come out in the media and slam his head coach - no. However, when RV first came here a number of influential people I know tried to get him to fire DD. He told them no and that you don't build a winning team by rotating coaches every few years. We saw what DD, did the next 4 years (this is not a lead into why DD got fired - that's over).

All this to say, that RV has a history of giving coaches time to build something even when things are bad. Let's remember, things were really bad under DD before the 4 bowl appearences. Everyone remembers losses to ULM, Baylor, UNLV (I believe Army is in this group as well) all who had 10 plus game losing streaks against D1 teams before beating us.

Mean Green 93-98 · October 3, 2008

2-14: hanging onto an RV lifeline
2-22: out of rope?

I really think he gets the 3rd year regardless of whether he wins a game this season.

Now if we go winless, plus have a complete meltdown with a mass exodus of players... (Not to say I think that will happen).

October 3, 2008

So because you watched football longer than how long I've been alive, makes my opinion (or any other person) worthless?
Well, how about I tell you that I played football since I was 7 years old, into high school, & at the college level, my brother played at a Divison 1 program, and I have friends playing at the NFL level? So that makes me an expert and your opinions junk. Seriously, it's all a matter of opinion, you are entitled to yours and we are entitled to ours.
My thoughts are inline with many here who feel that his program is at a critical point in time. Why did RV take such a huge gamble on such inexperience to lead this program? I was in support of getting rid of DD,but I refuse to believe the talent he left is this inferior. These recruiting classes came during the SBC championship run. Look at the SMU game the last 2 years. You can't tell me that you believe this team is worse, talent wise, than those 2 teams????? Look at what happened to Brandon Monroe & Germaine Dawson last year. Woody Wilson, one of the best athletes on the team left. Dibrell's gone, two CB's left with the racism fiasco last year. Meager demoted (I do think Vizza is the better player now) certainly not for his play last season. Cam, the best athlete on the offensive side of the ball when he's in, comes in every 3rd or 4th series. The list goes on & on. Where does it stop??

I agree with you that RV probably shouldn't have gambled on hiring Dodge simply because high school coaches historically haven't made great college coaches. However, I don't see much after that that I can agree with.

DD's stealth recruiting dropped the talent a little more each year after his great recruiting class of 2000. It was a major factor in winning 5 games his last two years. In his last class only Drake and Seidle made any splash on the recruiting lists. Neither is able to contribute at the moment. Some of the better talent available to Dodge were former walkons.

Brandon Monroe played in 11 games last year and started early in the year but he was not better than Holman or Robertson so I can't even fault Mendoza for that. Dawson supposedly didn't play because he was learning a new position, linebacker, even though he had been one before. Now, I believe that an injury is supposedly keeping him off of the field.

Woody Wilson was a great athlete but not a great quarterback. He could've started at DB under Dodge I'd bet if he really wanted to play. Meager's greatest fault to me was that he had a very difficult time putting points on the board. He also tended to hold on to the ball too long. Other than that, I liked him. Although I agree that Vizza is the better quarterback, I didn't like the way Meager was lied to. Dodge implied that Meager had won the job and he was to be the quarterback for 2007.

I mildly disagree wtih your assessment of Cam Montgomery. For none, the running backs coach apparently doesn't think that he's the best either or he would be the featured back. He's also playing more than ever 3rd or 4th series because Mosley hasn't played in three games. Dunbar is the one that comes in ever 3rd or 4th series. Coach Gandy will put who he thinks is needed and so far I can't find fault with his decisions.

Those are my opinions.

NT80 · October 3, 2008

Let me take a little different approach here and not focus on TD but on what RV is saying. Is he going to come out in the media and slam his head coach - no. However, when RV first came here a number of influential people I know tried to get him to fire DD. He told them no and that you don't build a winning team by rotating coaches every few years. We saw what DD, did the next 4 years (this is not a lead into why DD got fired - that's over).
All this to say, that RV has a history of giving coaches time to build something even when things are bad. Let's remember, things were really bad under DD before the 4 bowl appearences. Everyone remembers losses to ULM, Baylor, UNLV (I believe Army is in this group as well) all who had 10 plus game losing streaks against D1 teams before beating us.

Now I heard in 2001 that RV wanted to fire DD after ULM game but the BOR wouldn't let him, DD had friends on there. And that it kind of started a rift beween RV, DD and the BOR. DD was not an RV hire and ADs like their own coaches in there. The bowl games extended DD's tenure but when that went dry RV was back on the attack.

HoustonEagle · October 3, 2008

I am tired of hearing how it takes 3-4 years and his players to turn this team around. Does it take that long to form a highly competitive team? Sure, that is understandable. Still wins and losses are not absolute in showing progress in a turn-around project. A team can go winless and still give us the sense that things are headed in the right direction. A team can go winless and still look like they are playing competitive football. What is eating at me is how horrible this team looks during this rebuilding process. There is no excuse for that. A good coach should at least have his players playing to the best of their ability. These kids look lost out there.

How is it that Todd Graham can take over a 1-10 triple option offense Rice Owls team and the very next season make them a winner? Great coaching. Nothing else turned that team around except great coaching. My expectations for Dodge were much lower than that, much lower, and are not even close to being met.

I have not given up on Dodge but the thought sure has crossed my mind.

TheTastyGreek · October 3, 2008

Speaking of facts... wasn't there supposed to be some kind of talent comparison coming out on TY sometime soon? I thought the "Sun Belt getting better" analysis was intriguing; I'd be interested to hear part II.
In addition, I would love to hear your thoughts on why the word "intriguing" is so hard to spell.

I said it would come this week, and I still intend to make that deadline. I put a lot of time into researching the Sun Belt wins/losses post, and that coupled with the unexpected need to address Phillips' Sunday blog post delayed me a bit.

Original schedule was planned to be Rice Trip on Sunday/overnight Monday, Is the Sun Belt Significantly Better sometime early or mid-week, and the Bare Cupboard post either yesterday or today. It's already been a pretty hectic week of blogging, but I still intend on NOT ONLY delivering a Bare Cupboard piece... I also have a lighthearted pop culture piece that should be up within the next 24 hours, too.

Also, I have 4 photoshopped pictures for a baseball post we've had planned since right after the All Star break that should have been done this week, but got pushed back due to all the North Texas chaos.

Making fluffy kitten jokes and libeling football players who did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG STOP LYING YOU INTERNET BASTARDS TROY WRITE SOMETHING AND MAKE THEM STOP LYING!! is pretty arduous, time-consuming work.

Green Mean · October 3, 2008

I am tired of hearing how it takes 3-4 years and his players to turn this team around. Does it take that long to form a highly competitive team? Sure, that is understandable. Still wins and losses are not absolute in showing progress in a turn-around project. A team can go winless and still give us the sense that things are headed in the right direction. A team can go winless and still look like they are playing competitive football. What is eating at me is how horrible this team looks during this rebuilding process. There is no excuse for that. A good coach should at least have his players playing to the best of their ability. These kids look lost out there.
How is it that Todd Graham can take over a 1-10 triple option offense Rice Owls team and the very next season make them a winner? Great coaching. Nothing else turned that team around except great coaching. My expectations for Dodge were much lower than that, much lower, and are not even close to being met.
I have not given up on Dodge but the thought sure has crossed my mind.

That is exactly what I have been trying to say the past two seasons. As much as everyone wants to blame Dickey for our problems...he never lost to Rice 77-20. You are right that a good coach atleast coaches his team to compete....hell atleast for 2 or 3 quarters. By halftime the games are out of hand and its an embarrasment after that. It seems that most on this board is trying to give themselves satisfaction with Dodge by blame most if not everything on Dickey and I think that is totally wrong. Dodge knew what he was getting into from the team, players, NT history, stadium etc. I am willing to give Dodge more time and dont get me wrong...I really want him to succeed here but with the way the first 16 games are gone...I dont think my hopes are too high on that.

Green Dozer · October 3, 2008

I would not expect RV to say anything different. One thing, as Dodge goes, so RV goes. If Dodge does not work out, North Texas won't only be looking for a new football coach, but an athletic director as well.

FirefightnRick · October 3, 2008

I have reason to believe that things will get worse, much worse before they get better. With that said, I'll ride this Mean Green roller coaster until the day I die and will give Coach Dodge all the support I can.

Keep this in mind as this program continues to move forward:

We(the Mean Green Nation) are not a shallow group. We don't base our support on the annual purchased canned hunt victories that so many other fan bases rely upon. Win or lose, our team is like our kids. We don't love them because they are good, we love them because they are ours.

Rick

Edited October 3, 2008 by FirefightnRick

OldTimer · October 3, 2008

I have reason to believe that things will get worse, much worse before they get better. With that said, I'll ride this Mean Green roller coaster until the day I die and will give Coach Dodge all the support I can.
Keep this in mind as this program continues to move forward:
We(the Mean Green Nation) are not a shallow group. We don't base our support on the annual purchased canned hunt victories that so many other fan bases rely upon. Win or lose, our team is like our kids. We don't love them because they are good, we love them because they are ours.
Rick

AMEN....and so far I'm in my 54th year. If NT fired Dodge after 2 seasons or in his second season there's not a quality coach in America that NT will be able to bring in.

Mean Green 93-98 · October 3, 2008

I have reason to believe that things will get worse, much worse before they get better. With that said, I'll ride this Mean Green roller coaster until the day I die and will give Coach Dodge all the support I can.
Keep this in mind as this program continues to move forward:
We(the Mean Green Nation) are not a shallow group. We don't base our support on the annual purchased canned hunt victories that so many other fan bases rely upon. Win or lose, our team is like our kids. We don't love them because they are good, we love them because they are ours.
Rick

I'm really, truly, with all my might hoping that your first sentence is pure speculation. A roller coaster like that is bound to wipe out.

But if you don't mind, I'd kinda like to append those last 4 sentences to my signature.

Green to the Bone · October 3, 2008

I don't know anything about coaching or recruiting or reading offenses or defenses, but I did look askance at the following line in BV's story:

"North Texas athletic director Rick Villarreal expressed confidence Thursday in the direction of the school’s football program that is stuck in the middle of a historic slide ..."

One might think that it would be better to wish for a change in direction when on a historic slide. Unless one were sliding into a huge vat of delicious chocolate pudding.