Holding Dodge Accountable

[mad dog]

You are an idiot I was repeating what Drakes former players said of him. If you ask me they are a pretty good judge of him as a coach. Maybe I am being to sensitive but what the hell does it matter that I work at a restaurant to get me through college, NOT a SINGLE PERSON CAN TRUTHFULLY SAY THAT UNT SPEACIAL TEAMS ARE PERFORMING WELL. Drake is the special teams coach and thus it is his fault.

...And for you.

[yyz28]

And where did you play D1 ball or where did you coach, said it right you work at a restaurant, did any of you bozos play , no just a bunch of people that sat the bench, or did not have enought guts to play.

Please add production to the discussion or don't post at all.

Voice your opinion, but what's with the personal attacks?

Edited October 2, 2008 by yyz28

[wardly]

One answer, I back Coach Todd Dodge, his staff, and the players 110%.

Give this team the time to develop. Coach Dodge knows football, as well

as his staff, and they are teaching this young talent how to play the game.

Coach Dodge and his staff will continue to recruit top talent for NT that will

pay off huge dividends. Give Coach Dodge his 4 years!

Losing talented players? I have only seen one kid that I regret losing. Every

college in america loses kids. There is not a mass migration of kids leaving

the North Texas football program! If the kid is not happy, then go somewhere else.

Why do people think every kid on the team is quiting? Geez!

Kids left Hayden Fry's teams too!

Coach Dodge is accountable for the football team.Yes, but let him do his job his way!

The program was a mess to begin with, so was that his fault? That is why he was

hired. Coach Dodge is our best chance to bring back the Mean Green!

I sure as heck want the new stadium. So bringing in the new stadium is the

adminstations job, and for the first time in a long long time, the adminstation

is backing athletics, especially the football program. Everyone knows the benefits

of this venture, as well as Coach Dodge.

[Quoner]

That'll be a week for you...

He's made four eloquent posts asking people where they played football or supporting Mendoza so I think we need to let Dan - and all our wonderful fans - have the same chance to keep adding to the debate.

Don't hate - appreciate.

And, for the love of Pete, everybody still here go out, get off the bench, and get some guts. You disgust me.

(Please don't ban me)

[kj86]

SHAFT, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !!!!

Double-right. And, no, he shouldn't be fired if we don't win 3 games this year, but if we only win 3 next year, then we need to see the axe.

[Green Dozer]

I am one of those that said Dodge gets a pass. I still see Dickey blamed in posts, Mendoza from last year, yet all that is said about Coach Dodge is for him to get players for "his system" and a new stadium. Then, Promise Land, here we come. We say he did not have enough time to recruit for his system. or it is the difference in the speed of the game from high school to college, stadium, or whatever. By the way, those are all valid reasons given the state of our program, but he is the man. But how do you explain going from giving up 41 points in Baton Rouge and then 77 against Rice? This team laid down, and for that I do blame the coach. They did not look prepared. Look at what Rice had to deal with for 2 weeks before the game. And, though some of you may not admit it, but i have heard you say they did not look prepared in several games over these two seasons. Even Coach Dodge said Monday that regardless who recruited these players, they are his and he is their coach. One other thing is the spread offense is nothing new. Most of these kids ran some form of it in high school. It is just still hard to believe that there is that much disparity in talent/ability between our players and the players on Rice, Tulsa, and other teams even in the Sun Belt. Don't like the butt kickings from OU, LSU, KSTATE, but know for now I have to live with it.

We need for Coach Dodge to be successful. We could not have hired anybody else and got the type of instant credibility that he brought to our program at the time. But, I have a couple of more concerns. He needs to turn it around quickly, because I believe he has lost a lot of momentum since his hiring. Things have not exactly fell into place like he or even the folks on this board thought or hoped it would. I think we need to win at least 3 games this year, and hopefully we can win 5 to 6 next year. Otherwise, recruiting is going to be a tough sell because in a couple of years you are going to be recruiting kids who don't know Todd Dodge by his record at Southlake, and you can bet if there is not improvement other recruiters will point out all our problems. There is going to have to be some success on the field, no matter what field it is.

One more thing, I think the athletic department should have had a big banner with a picture of the new stadium behind him. That would have shown a lot of committment on the administration's part I think. I think that would have said ,along with Coach Dodge's hiring, of our expectations for this program. And it should have been the message everytime he and RV spoke in public. It should not have had to come from Coach Dodge as a reminder of a promise made to him.

I believe Coach needs to take a hard look at himself, and perhaps take some time to make adjustments in how he runs this team. That may mean bringing assistants with college experience (THIS MAYBE THE HARDEST FOR COACH DODGE,, IT WOULD BE FOR ANY COACH WHO IS CONFIDENT IN HIS ABILITY), the way assistants might be dealing with players, and also how he is handling the players themselves. When he is interviewed at the coach's show, he is as technical as any coach I have heard. I am not saying he is not friendly, because he has stopped at my table a couple of questions and listened to our intelligent questions. He has rightfully made negative comments about Fouts, but is a great ambassador for the University of North Texas. Maybe he just needs to be more approachable to his players, just loosen up. He is serious about his job, and I have no doubt he wants to succeed. A new coach could not do any better at this point. Besides, who are you going to hire given our present budget? These problems are correctable, but it is time to straighten the learning curve.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[Tramp96]

I back Todd Dodge 100%. He inherited a program with a TON of baggage. A ton. He lost 5 scholarships this past year thanks to APR...and trust me, that was not his fault. That is what he inherited...there was no way he could have fixed that situation coming in.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg, folks. He also inherited a program that had no discipline and consequences for ones actions under the previous leadership. If a player didn't go to class, Dickey didn't care...it wasn't his job (in his eyes) to care about that. Let the academic counselors worry about that (his opinion). So the players knew they could get away with what they wanted to because there were no repercussions from the coaching staff (after DeLoach left...but not even DeLoach could trump Dickey on certain things). There was no discipline within the program. But the man made it to 3 bowl games and won one of them...he had people in high places that only cared about that and didn't care about the long-term damage being done to the program itself.

So guess who gets to clean up the mess? Todd Dodge.

Couple that with the worst D-1 stadium in the country, and the man has quite the challenge. Yes, he could use his offense in a manner to keep the blowout scores from happening....but that's not what everyone wanted when they hired him. We all wanted a new offense....an exciting offense...an air-it-out offense...because we were tired of Dickey's Run right, Run left, PA-pass, punt offense.

Well, folks, you need to understand that there is a greater risk of blowout scores when you run a spread-type offense like what Dodge runs. But he will never build the program he wants to build by not running it now. Yes, we are taking our licks, and taking some bad ones right now. But the payoff will be down the road...not now...when the offense in ingrained into the experienced players.

Give him time, and give him a stadium. Remember, he not only has to recruit to the current one, but he has to do so with five less scholarships (thanks Dickey) and with 1/2 the team inherited from an undisciplined previous program (thanks Dickey). Plus, with the injuries, the man just has had some bad luck.

Lastly, I will leave you all with this...Tom Osborne, King Emeritus of the State of Nebraska, took YEARS to build up the program there. You could really say decades in fact. People were more patient back then. In today's world he would've been fired after 4.

Patience, people...patience.

[wardly]

f.a.u has a city owned soccer stadium that the owls play in which seats 10,000 or so. while they also are trying to build a new stadium, no ground breaking yet. however, their staff is able to recruit. let give dodge 3/5 years to rebuild.

[PHSCoach]

He also inherited a program that had no discipline and consequences for ones actions under the previous leadership. If a player didn't go to class, Dickey didn't care...it wasn't his job (in his eyes) to care about that. Let the academic counselors worry about that (his opinion). So the players knew they could get away with what they wanted to because there were no repercussions from the coaching staff (after DeLoach left...but not even DeLoach could trump Dickey on certain things). Patience, people...patience.

I can tell that you were not around the program if the past. You didn't see DD having 5:30 study halls. DD standing at the door where his players had class and the running after practrice if you were one min. late. You didn't hear DD at practrice calling out players for grade problems.

When we lose 3 or 4 ships for this year it will also be DD lack of leadership. DD had a lot of problems but that was not one of them.

[CMJ]

I think pretty much any coach should be given 4 years unless it is obvious things are continually getting worse. As of right now, I still think Dodge deserves another 2 and half years.

[Tramp96]

I can tell that you were not around the program if the past. You didn't see DD having 5:30 study halls. DD standing at the door where his players had class and the running after practrice if you were one min. late. You didn't hear DD at practrice calling out players for grade problems.

When we lose 3 or 4 ships for this year it will also be DD lack of leadership. DD had a lot of problems but that was not one of them.

I was around. Trust me. There were no real consequences under Dickey's regime. The players might have gotten called out, but there were no real consequences. Oh, he yelled...but he yelled more at the academic counselor for his players' lack of performance in the classroom then he did the players.

Did any of the players who skipped class or failed a test ever get threatened with reduce practice and playing time? No. That's the only thing that's going to get the players' attentions.

Want to see an example? Look at MTSU. The first year of APR they had the worst score in all of D-1A. They then implemented a new program that had REAL consequences, not lipservice. And they had the single best turn around in one year of APR scores of any school. Dickey wouldn't buy-in to such a consequence program for his team, and now we have lost 5 scholarships thanks to the APR.

Dickey did real and long term damage to this program. Don't think for a moment that he didn't.

[PHSCoach]

Did any of the players who skipped class or failed a test ever get threatened with reduce practice and playing time? No. That's the only thing that's going to get the players' attentions.

Want to see an example? Look at MTSU. The first year of APR they had the worst score in all of D-1A. They then implemented a new program that had REAL consequences, not lipservice. And they had the single best turn around in one year of APR scores of any school. Dickey wouldn't buy-in to such a consequence program for his team, and now we have lost 5 scholarships thanks to the APR.

The answer would be yes. There were consequences that included reduced practice time and in some cases lack of playing time.

MTSU implemented this program from the AD. Where is our AD? The current program has probably 150% more tutors and available computers in the new academic center.

Many of the players that caused the lost of scholarships were sent off campus by TD and or RV and they should have know what the consequences would have been not keeping them on campus to work with the tutors and their academic advisor to get them back on track.

Edited October 2, 2008 by PHSCoach

[CaribbeanGreen]

I'll start by saying I support Dodge 100%, which should go without saying. In my book, he gets at least 3 full years, 4 if there's even the slightest bit of progress by the third year. By year four, we should be no less than "knocking on the door."

It should be noted that saying Dodge should be held accountable and holding him to task is NOT the same as calling of his head. Frankly, despite this history making disaster of a start, I've seen little to no demanding he get the axe. You'd see a LOT more if we were a BCS program, that's for sure. I think that as far as irrational marginally informed fan bases go, we're a pretty patient, low-expectations group. Anyway, it's entirely possible to support Dodge 100%, want to see this thing through, and at the same time hold him accountable for the state of the program. That's where I stand.

With that, I'll pull an awesome and repost myself for the second time this week:

So, let me see if i understand, based on posts on this thread (and many over the past few months)...

... the administration/AD is the root of the problem. Without adequate commitment and support, we can't compete on a high level and the best we can hope for is mediocrity (which i'm sure we'd all accept right now).

... there's also the generally accepted belief that this recent administration (Pohl/Bataille/RV), despite their shortcomings, is head and shoulders above the previous one (Hurley/Helwig), which paid less, had significantly worse facilities, zero game day atmosphere or promotion, and was basically inferior on every level.

... TTG's research on the latest TY Sports blog bears out what many of us felt was the case all along -- relative to other conferences in the FBS, The Belt has arguably gotten only slightly better if at all, and statistically had its best year in 2002. Statistics bear out the only significant improvement is at the very bottom of the standings, and even if you assume the conference HAS improved as a whole, you have to concede what a razor-thin improvement its been... and based on our OOC record staying stagnant (and never as good as 2002), you would have to argue that every single conference has improved as much as you claim the Belt has in that time, a virtual impossibility.

So... if the conference is marginally better if at all, the current administration is better than the last one by a mile yet still the biggest hindrance to today's team, and in this DRASTICALLY improved climate (great game day atmosphere, bigger salaries, new state of the art athletic center, etc.) "the best we can hope for is mediocrity"... then, quite simply, explain the unprecedented, best in school history, ass-kicking, skull cracking, top 10 ranked defense, back to back national rushing champions, 26-straight conference wins, 4 straight conference championships we just rolled off four short years ago.... yet Dodge may have "to go somewhere else to have success" because he's so hamstrung here??? Really??

I've always said I'll never minimize that team and those accomplishments. That was the best we've ever seen, and I'll bet dollars to donuts it's the best we ever will see. It's a hell of a lot better than most schools have EVER seen. Something doesn't add up here. It's why I keep a relatively low profile around here (much better for my blood pressure and my SARS), and some perspective is needed.

Still, as always, hard as it may be at times, GMG!

[Tramp96]

Many of the players that caused the lost of scholarships were sent off campus by TD and or RV and they should have know what the consequences would have been not keeping them on campus to work with the tutors and their academic advisor to get them back on track.

Um, no.

You don't lose scholarships after one bad APR score. You lose them after multiple bad APR scores. You cannot blame TD for the APR mess...that was all DD. RV saw the APR writing on the wall the first year it came out, but thanks to Bobby Ray telling RV and Pohl they couldn't touch DD, they didn't.

I realize many here love Dickey and don't like Dodge. That's fine. But to think the APR mess isn't 100% on Dickey and Bobby Ray is to not have a clue about what really went on.

[mad dog]

I realize many here love Dickey and don't like Dodge.

Wow... anyone imagine this statement two years ago?

[H-towngreen]

Yes things are bad right now, but you can not judge Dodge on not even a season and a half. Every coach should get 3-4 yrs.

[shaft]

So you are saying he should be gone at the end of this season if he doesn't make 3-9?

The only way I think TD should go at the end of the season is if the team goes 0-12. For every win below 3-9 benchmark, he has to make it up the following year.

Dumping a coach before you give him three years would be a disaster.

[JesseMartin]

If we remove ourselves from our insular mindset and think objectively, I'd say the overall blame falls squarely on the UNT community as a whole. We and some others are supportive, but there are over 100,000 alums (not to mention exes) in DFW, not to mention residents of the Denton area who have benefitted greatly over the years from our presence. This attitude came from the top down, via previous administrators and community leaders.

RV, Dr. B, TD, Burroughs, name anyone you want...they all have an uphill battle to overcome years of apathy. Things are much better, but it will be quite some time before we have the support that other schools enjoy, be it in sports or anything else.

Dodge isn't a "victim", because he knew what he was getting himself into, but really, sometimes we just need to take a step back and realize that there are bigger things at work than just the athletic program's internal mechanisms.

[NT80]

Time for a head coaching change? No, not yet.

Time for more assistant coaches to be changed? Yes.

Time for an explanation of what's going on and what's expected for the future? Yes.

[moffat]

I was around. Trust me. There were no real consequences under Dickey's regime. The players might have gotten called out, but there were no real consequences. Oh, he yelled...but he yelled more at the academic counselor for his players' lack of performance in the classroom then he did the players.

I have been around for 4 years now. I have had lots of classes with football players. I can tell you that it was not a nice site for football players to come around a corner and see Coach Dickey standing outside a classroom taking a head count of which players showed up for class, who didn't and who wasn't in class 5 minutes before the class started. Dickey wasn't the only coach standing outside the classrooms taking a head count. I heard football players talk about Dickey Hall. One day I finally asked what is Dickey Hall. I was told if you were a player that got Dickey Hall that meant showing up at the athletic academic center at 5:30 a.m. to sit with Coach Dickey until 8:00 a.m doing your class work while Coach Dickey sat there staring at you. I would say that was a consquence for not taking care of your academic business. I have asked if there is any consquences like this since Dodge became coach and have had players laugh saying no coaches come to the classrooms and don't have players bring in a weekly class list signed by teachers about being in class either.

I came to freshman orientation in 2004. I sat in the Super Pit and heard Villareal tell all of us freshmen that by the time we graduate North Texas would playing in a new stadium. I asked some of the football players I had class with about a new stadium. They told me that was one of the things they were told when they were recruited was by the time they graduated from North Texas they would be playing in a new stadium. So, I have been at North Texas 4 years. It looks to me that the recruits in the 2004 class were promised a new stadium to play in.

I grew up being told Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If all you out that posting on this site believe that is the rule Dodge and his staff live by then you really have been sold a bill of goods. I have been told that what is said about we are all a family and we are a team only applies to the guys Dodge and his staff recruit. From what I have been told coaches diss jr and sr players when they are in class when there is a meeting. From what i hear some really nasty, mean and downright degrading things have been said about some of the guys that were here when Dodge and staff came in and the younger guys see as leaders. Buy in? Buy in to what? Degrading players that were that recruited by Dickey, take care of their business in the classroom and off the field and are proud of being North Texas students and players?

Yea, there are serious problems in the program. Just remember leadership and the success and failure of athetic programs start at the top. That would be Rick Villareal and Todd Dodge. Look at the players currently leaving the team. Who recruit them? Dickey or Dodge? I think I agree with another thread and what Illivus theory with the pampered players. I have talked to some guys who played football at my high school. I asked them what the football coach at our high school thought of Dodge. They look at me laugh. Does that tell any of you anything?

Keep drinking the green kool aid so many of you talk about. Maybe when it finally runs out you might have the football program you want.

[meangreanmick]

I have talked to some guys who played football at my high school. I asked them what the football coach at our high school thought of Dodge. They look at me laugh. Does that tell any of you anything?

Keep drinking the green kool aid so many of you talk about. Maybe when it finally runs out you might have the football program you want.

I have several very close friends that are high school coaches in the metroplex and they have similar reactions. When I ask them why they tell me that nobody likes people who constantly beat them and outcoach them.

[shaft]

I'd say the overall blame falls squarely on the UNT community as a whole.

I haven't thrown an interception all season and my fantasy teams are undefeated.

I'd also like to take a moment to make fun the study hall sub-thread. Unless you heard it from a player at a sandwich shop, no one on this board cares about who got study hall.

[H-towngreen]

I cant help but to think that ever since the death of Andrew Smith the program has been on a downward spiral. Anyone else kinda have that feeling.

[shaft]

I cant help but to think that ever since the death of Andrew Smith the program has been on a downward spiral. Anyone else kinda have that feeling.

I think Southern Miss exposing Flanagin's one trick offense was a bigger blow to the team.

Followed closely by DD's failure to capitalize on any bowl momentum.

[C&S]

the

I cant help but to think that ever since the death of Andrew Smith the program has been on a downward spiral. Anyone else kinda have that feeling.

I believe you have said something that is truer than a lot of people want to think about. I have heard people say that Coach Dickey some of the other coaches and players changed a lot when Andrew died. As a parent, I can't even begin to imagine losing a child but I know the coaches and players who had been with Andrew were deeply affected by his death. People can say what they want about Mattress Mac but he did a great thing asking the NCAA to allow him to pay to bring the team to Houston for Andrew's service. From what I have been told this group of coaches and that team really were a family. They embraced the incoming freshmen and shared their loss and their grief. I don't think there was any player that joined the team that didn't know who Andrew Smith was and what he meant to North Texas football.

Andrew made a bad choice and he paid the greatest consquence for that choice but from all I have heard he was a true leader and overcame adversity when he came to North Texas.

Andrew's little brother played for Rice against North Texas last Saturday. He was #99.