Holding Dodge Accountable

yyz28 · October 2, 2008

There is thread after thread after thread on this board that basically could be merged. They cover the following rather intertwined topics -

Why have some of the players left?

What should the team do to get better now?

What should the team do to stay better in the long term?

Who to blame for all of this mess?

...but virtually ALL of them feature someone claiming that we're "giving Dodge a pass". ...I don't think this is happening AT ALL, but I'd like to see how everyone (and the majority) feel about our coach.

Do you blame Dodge and hold him accountable for where we are?

Do you think it is time for a change, or do you think he should remain and given more time to turn this around?

How much time?

What do you really think about Dodge at this point?

FanofUNT · October 2, 2008

I blame the stadium for the mess. No decent player is going to want to play on the worst football field in the country. It is ridiculous to think a star athelete is going to play in an athletic department that is under funded and neglected. I don't think it is Dodge's fault, he's doing what he can with what he has. Things will change once a state of the art stadium is built. Players will know how serious we are about the team and the future of UNT.

Ibleedgreen · October 2, 2008

No, I do not blame Dodge. He needs at least two more years to rebuild the team. I have faith that he'll get us where we need to be. And I do not blame Fouts Field. (how ridiculous is that....?)

mad dog · October 2, 2008

Good thread. I said at the beginning that Dodge would get four years. I'm not sure you can properly evaluate a coach until then.

As bad as a 57 point loss it, is still is only booked as one loss. The prevailing opinion here seemed to be that we would be 0-4 in non-conference, so we're objectively exactly where a lot of us thought we should.

What bothers me more is the inability to keep players in the program. As bad as losing Dibrell was, we at least have warm bodies with some kind of talent behind them. We could lose another 7 receivers and still have enough for a 5 wide formation. But we don't have that luxury everywhere. We lose one or two guys on the offensive line, and we can hit the panic button (again).

If the defense (which has been ostensibly handed over to DeLoach) can muster up a pulse, and we can limit our special teams gaffes to 2 or 3 a game, we might legitimately compete. Given that DeLoach has been so thin on the line than he's playing a 250 pound converted tight end at defensive tackle, and the defensive secondary has been a revolving door of inexperienced players, I think he gets a pass this year, and probably next year as well. And if we can find a way to get some big bodies this offseason, he might just turn this thing around.

I still believe that Dodge can win, but the clock is definitely ticking.

MeanGreengdub · October 2, 2008

No, I do not blame Dodge. He needs at least two more years to rebuild the team. I have faith that he'll get us where we need to be. And I do not blame Fouts Field. (how ridiculous is that....?)

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I'd bet every player on the team had a nicer stadium and facilities in high school than they do now at UNT. I'm not saying it's the main reason but it's definitely a big one. I'd rather go play at a DII school than here because of the stadium. Honestly, it feels just like a high school football game inside the stadium at Fouts on a Saturday.

Stan R · October 2, 2008

Of course I hold Dodge accountable for this mess. Most of it is of his own making, and those reasons have been debated ad nauseum. I am not, however, ready to fire him yet. Barring complete breakdown of the team during the remainder of this year, (which is still possible) I would not fire him at the end of this year either. But next year is it in my mind. He better show better organization between his coaches, disciplined players with drive to win and game preparation.

Green Mean · October 2, 2008

Right now blame is to be put on everyone. The administration, RV, Dodge, players etc. Everything from top to bottom is in shambles right now and the thing this team needs first and foremost and very very quick is a WIN. If you get a win then I think things will calm down just a tad bit in my opinion.

calvin · October 2, 2008

How did we ever go 8-5, 9-4, and 7-5 in that stadium ?

I say lets ride it out and give him 4 years. If it is still like this into his 4th year, then we know it isnt going to work out. The most disappointing thing for me is, it doesnt seem like we have made any improvement since the opening game last year ? We still cant move the ball consistently when it matters, we cant stop anybody, and we definitely cant play special teams.

Green P1 · October 2, 2008

I've always been one of the "Give Dodge time to get his recruits going" guys, but if his recruits keep quitting the team/football......

LAZER · October 2, 2008

I still believe that TD will turn this program around. I feel that we would most likely be in the same situation if we would have hired someone else. I do not think these off the field issues have much to do with dodge. Players such as fentriss have left due to injuries. Dodge did not beat up Fentriss to cause the injuries thus it is not his fault. Other players have left because they were not getting playing time such as Marcus King. Again, this is not Dodge's fault he simply had better talent to put on the field. Players have also left such as Evyn Roman because they were simply awful players. Dodge may have bitched at Roman causing him to dislike dodge but that is TD job ( not being satisfied with poor performance). Other players have left that were former Dickey era players and that is just part of a coaching change. Players that were from the dickey era that were okay with the coaching change such as Korey Washington had academic issues. Dodge really can only do so much if the players wont hit the books it is their own fault. Additionally, another player that left was Justin Padron. I think that Padron decided to leave because he was used to playing on a very dominant football team. After our losing season Padron saw his brother being recruited be June Jones and got caught up in the June Jones "high" like the ponies so he jumped ship for SMU. I think Padron thought June would come to SMU and destroy all the teams in CUSA (look how that is working out). The only players that have left that I think Dodge can be somwhat held accountable for are Evan Walker, Kevin Ealy, and Alonzo Horton. Although I think Walker, Ealy, and horton had academic issues, I still blame dodge because he should not have recruited players that cant hack college academics. I also blame Dodge more for Ealy because the dude robbed a taco store after he left UNT. Obviously he did not have very good character. Although I do blame dodge for these three players specifically, as a head coach trying to turn around a program you sometimes have to take chances. Finally, those of you who really believe that Dibrell left because he had no passion for the game and wanted to focus on "oil and gas" are morons. Does anyone else remember the picture of Dibrell scoring a touchdown against Navy while throwing up the claw? Dibrell likes UNT and playing football he would not have quit the team to concentrate on "oil and gas" like the reports say he did (in the middle of your sophomore year in D1 football as a starter). There is much more to this story that is not being told. Reports from the FWST would not have originally said Dibrell was kicked off the team if there was not more to the story. Check the TY sports, they agree............. Open your eyes folks Dibrell did something wrong.

Finally, I agree our product on the fild has sucked lately but look at all the talented players we have lost. Give dodge a break......

Monkeypox · October 2, 2008

Good thread. I said at the beginning that Dodge would get four years. I'm not sure you can properly evaluate a coach until then.
As bad as a 57 point loss it, is still is only booked as one loss. The prevailing opinion here seemed to be that we would be 0-4 in non-conference, so we're objectively exactly where a lot of us thought we should.
What bothers me more is the inability to keep players in the program. As bad as losing Dibrell was, we at least have warm bodies with some kind of talent behind them. We could lose another 7 receivers and still have enough for a 5 wide formation. But we don't have that luxury everywhere. We lose one or two guys on the offensive line, and we can hit the panic button (again).
If the defense (which has been ostensibly handed over to DeLoach) can muster up a pulse, and we can limit our special teams gaffes to 2 or 3 a game, we might legitimately compete. Given that DeLoach has been so thin on the line than he's playing a 250 pound converted tight end at defensive tackle, and the defensive secondary has been a revolving door of inexperienced players, I think he gets a pass this year, and probably next year as well. And if we can find a way to get some big bodies this offseason, he might just turn this thing around.
I still believe that Dodge can win, but the clock is definitely ticking.

Yep.

chrisfisher · October 2, 2008

I blame the stadium for the mess.

I'd give the stadium a stern talking to.

UNTLifer · October 2, 2008

I still believe that TD will turn this program around. I feel that we would most likely be in the same situation if we would have hired someone else. I do not think these off the field issues have much to do with dodge. Players such as fentriss have left due to injuries. Dodge did not beat up Fentriss to cause the injuries thus it is not his fault. Other players have left because they were not getting playing time such as Marcus King. Again, this is not Dodge's fault he simply had better talent to put on the field. Players have also left such as Evyn Roman because they were simply awful players. Dodge may have bitched at Roman causing him to dislike dodge but that is TD job ( not being satisfied with poor performance). Other players have left that were former Dickey era players and that is just part of a coaching change. Players that were from the dickey era that were okay with the coaching change such as Korey Washington had academic issues. Dodge really can only do so much if the players wont hit the books it is their own fault. Additionally, another player that left was Justin Padron. I think that Padron decided to leave because he was used to playing on a very dominant football team. After our losing season Padron saw his brother being recruited be June Jones and got caught up in the June Jones "high" like the ponies so he jumped ship for SMU. I think Padron thought June would come to SMU and destroy all the teams in CUSA (look how that is working out). The only players that have left that I think Dodge can be somwhat held accountable for are Evan Walker, Kevin Ealy, and Alonzo Horton. Although I think Walker, Ealy, and horton had academic issues, I still blame dodge because he should not have recruited players that cant hack college academics. I also blame Dodge more for Ealy because the dude robbed a taco store after he left UNT. Obviously he did not have very good character. Although I do blame dodge for these three players specifically, as a head coach trying to turn around a program you sometimes have to take chances. Finally, those of you who really believe that Dibrell left because he had no passion for the game and wanted to focus on "oil and gas" are morons. Does anyone else remember the picture of Dibrell scoring a touchdown against Navy while throwing up the claw? Dibrell likes UNT and playing football he would not have quit the team to concentrate on "oil and gas" like the reports say he did (in the middle of your sophomore year in D1 football as a starter). There is much more to this story that is not being told. Reports from the FWST would not have originally said Dibrell was kicked off the team if there was not more to the story. Check the TY sports, they agree............. Open your eyes folks Dibrell did something wrong.
Finally, I agree our product on the fild has sucked lately but look at all the talented players we have lost. Give dodge a break......

Good post.

I do think TD is going through growing pains. He brought in coaches he was comfortable with, but they probably were not ready for the college game. There still may be a few of these on staff. Deloach must be given the lattitude to hire the coaches he wants to teach and run his system.

Some of these issues point to leadership issues which begin with the head coach. I think the learning curve was bigger than TD thought and this has been an eye opener to this point. If he can continue to recruit well, find some big boys for the lines, then we should be fine. He deserves at least four years in my opinion.

The positives are that I'm excited about the athletes we have on this team. I just hope the coaches can turn these athletes in to Division 1 football players.

risinggreen · October 2, 2008

Yes, I hold Dodge accountable for making a terrible decision right off the bat and bringing in a boatload of high school coaches to rebuild and run a Division 1A football team. It was a pretty arrogant move in my opinion, and I would bet that RV would have made the money available for him to hire a "professional" staff to surround him with from the start. If this team doesn't show real progress by the middle of next season, I will be definitely begin to think that it is time for a change. For now, I think we should give the guy a chance to learn from his mistakes and realize that he is not in high school anymore. I certainly hope that he is learning and taking these weekly schoolings to heart.

Charlie NT 73 · October 2, 2008

One answer, I back Coach Todd Dodge, his staff, and the players 110%.

Give this team the time to develop. Coach Dodge knows football, as well

as his staff, and they are teaching this young talent how to play the game.

Coach Dodge and his staff will continue to recruit top talent for NT that will

pay off huge dividends. Give Coach Dodge his 4 years!

Losing talented players? I have only seen one kid that I regret losing. Every

college in america loses kids. There is not a mass migration of kids leaving

the North Texas football program! If the kid is not happy, then go somewhere else.

Why do people think every kid on the team is quiting? Geez!

Kids left Hayden Fry's teams too!

Coach Dodge is accountable for the football team.Yes, but let him do his job his way!

The program was a mess to begin with, so was that his fault? That is why he was

hired. Coach Dodge is our best chance to bring back the Mean Green!

I sure as heck want the new stadium. So bringing in the new stadium is the

adminstations job, and for the first time in a long long time, the adminstation

is backing athletics, especially the football program. Everyone knows the benefits

of this venture, as well as Coach Dodge.

LAZER · October 2, 2008

I agree that Dodge hired some inexperienced coaches such as Mendoza, Ford, and Drake. However, I am okay with Ford he seems to do a decent job. Drake and Mendoza were awful choices as assistant coaches. Mendoza is gone and we now have that problem fixed with Gary Deloach. Deloach will do a great job he just needs a little time. In regards to Drake, HE SHOULD BE FIRED. I work at a restaurant in Grapevine and at the time Dodge was hired, I worked with two SLC football players. They both told me they thought TD was a great coach and would turn NT around. Additionally, they both immediately said Drake was an awful coach and had no idea what he was doing. They said Dodge would get so frustrated with him that he would take over special teams at SLC. They were happy to see Drake leave but they felt bad for us. Ever since I heard that information I have never been able to understand why Dodge brought Drake with him to UNT. Nonetheless, I still belive TD will make the right decisions after this season to turn UNT into a winnig program.

greeneagle69 · October 2, 2008

There is one factor that seems to be continuously overlooked. When Dodge got here, he only had a few days to recruit his own players. And very few players at that (as I recall). And these players we last on most other schools' list, if on a list at all. This season, he had the same opportunity as every other team in the country......which is only going to bring in FRESHMEN. They will not be Booger,Hurd, Kasell, Spencer,Hall, Cobb reincarnated. This years freshmen will have to "gel".....sorry, that's all we seem to have.....younger players. And they wont come together with the few jrs and srs we have.....Once those are gone, all the newer players will be very cohesive and learning the same things from the same coaches at the same time. Next yrs incoming freshmen will then marry up with this yrs freshmen and other redshirt frosh. I'd be very surprised if we dont start getting results at that time...Problem is for most of us..THAT'S TOO FAR OFF.

shaft · October 2, 2008

Year 1: pass

Year 2: 3-9

Year 3: 6-6

Year 4: Bowl

Those are performance standard to hold Dodge to. So why we give him until the end of the season to see he can get it done.

greeneagle69 · October 2, 2008

Year 1: pass
Year 2: 3-9
Year 3: 6-6
Year 4: Bowl
Those are performance standard to hold Dodge to. So why we give him until the end of the season to see he can get it done.

SHAFT, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !!!!

LAZER · October 2, 2008

Here is the picture I was talking about with Dibrell throwing up the claw. Does this look like a guy that has now passion for football? We are not being told the whole story folks.

http://rjy.com/new/photos.htm?team=unt&amp...1&iend=229#

There is a better picture but I cant find it. This link did not work right........

Edited October 2, 2008 by LAZER

Mean Green 93-98 · October 2, 2008

Year 1: pass
Year 2: 3-9
Year 3: 6-6
Year 4: Bowl
Those are performance standard to hold Dodge to. So why we give him until the end of the season to see he can get it done.

So you are saying he should be gone at the end of this season if he doesn't make 3-9?

Lt dan · October 2, 2008

I agree that Dodge hired some inexperienced coaches such as Mendoza, Ford, and Drake. However, I am okay with Ford he seems to do a decent job. Drake and Mendoza were awful choices as assistant coaches. Mendoza is gone and we now have that problem fixed with Gary Deloach. Deloach will do a great job he just needs a little time. In regards to Drake, HE SHOULD BE FIRED. I work at a restaurant in Grapevine and at the time Dodge was hired, I worked with two SLC football players. They both told me they thought TD was a great coach and would turn NT around. Additionally, they both immediately said Drake was an awful coach and had no idea what he was doing. They said Dodge would get so frustrated with him that he would take over special teams at SLC. They were happy to see Drake leave but they felt bad for us. Ever since I heard that information I have never been able to understand why Dodge brought Drake with him to UNT. Nonetheless, I still belive TD will make the right decisions after this season to turn UNT into a winnig program.

And where did you play D1 ball or where did you coach, said it right you work at a restaurant, did any of you bozos play , no just a bunch of people that sat the bench, or did not have enought guts to play.

Stan R · October 2, 2008

yes, tasty, we know. a thousand points of light, stay the course, Dickey was our savior. :rolleyes:

LAZER · October 2, 2008

And where did you play D1 ball or where did you coach, said it right you work at a restaurant, did any of you bozos play , no just a bunch of people that sat the bench, or did not have enought guts to play.

You are an idiot I was repeating what Drakes former players said of him. If you ask me they are a pretty good judge of him as a coach. Maybe I am being to sensitive but what the hell does it matter that I work at a restaurant to get me through college, NOT a SINGLE PERSON CAN TRUTHFULLY SAY THAT UNT SPEACIAL TEAMS ARE PERFORMING WELL. Drake is the special teams coach and thus it is his fault.

mad dog · October 2, 2008

And where did you play D1 ball or where did you coach, said it right you work at a restaurant, did any of you bozos play , no just a bunch of people that sat the bench, or did not have enought guts to play.

That'll be a week for you...