The Mess He Inherited

[stebo]

I don't know if this has been posted, but it sums up the absolute mess that Dodge has inherited AND contributed to... what a freaking mess we have on our hands... BUT - I would like to state one more time - how great is it for the state of the program that with ALL of these problems, we are burning the note for the AC, selling more season tix than ever, filling the stands with losing records, and getting tv to cover our games (the list goes on and on)... the program has truly matured - especially when you read about the mess going on with the football program. Yikes!

Here is the link>

http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/coll...-about-unt.html

You may have already read this, but it starts out with the excerpt below and then lists off about 10 points of fact and 5 more ascertains.

Facts about UNT's "mess"

We referred to UNT's struggles in today's aftermath of Rice's 77-20 victory as a "mess" Todd Dodge stepped into. Actually, it was more a question than a statement.

Anyway, there's debate over Dodge's culpability 16 games into the job, and if the paper that best covers his old team at Southlake Carroll is giving him a pass. Here are facts meant neither to indict UNT's former coaching staff nor mitigate the current one. They're just realities.

[jperg2]

That is eye opening to say the least.

Very interesting information to well on.

[Green Nightmare]

I don't know if this has been posted, but it sums up the absolute mess that Dodge has inherited AND contributed to... what a freaking mess we have on our hands... BUT - I would like to state one more time - how great is it for the state of the program that with ALL of these problems, we are burning the note for the AC, selling more season tix than ever, filling the stands with losing records, and getting tv to cover our games (the list goes on and on)... the program has truly matured - especially when you read about the mess going on with the football program. Yikes!

Here is the link>

http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/coll...-about-unt.html

You may have already read this, but it starts out with the excerpt below and then lists off about 10 points of fact and 5 more ascertains.

Facts about UNT's "mess"

We referred to UNT's struggles in today's aftermath of Rice's 77-20 victory as a "mess" Todd Dodge stepped into. Actually, it was more a question than a statement.

Anyway, there's debate over Dodge's culpability 16 games into the job, and if the paper that best covers his old team at Southlake Carroll is giving him a pass. Here are facts meant neither to indict UNT's former coaching staff nor mitigate the current one. They're just realities.

I would read Tina's recap of this. Sheds a different light on it

Fun with Facts

[CaribbeanGreen]

I would read Tina's recap of this. Sheds a different light on it

Fun with Facts

Bingo.

There was a thread about this a few days ago -- while i agree much of what Stebo's post said, the FWST blog is misleading at BEST.

[MeanGreenZen]

Reads like Todd Dodge wrote it himself. Think Dodge has this writer's ear?

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Bingo.

There was a thread about this a few days ago -- while i agree much of what Stebo's post said, the FWST blog is misleading at BEST.

Tina has done a much better job of it for sure. What a mess.

[meangreendork]

I don't know if this has been posted, but it sums up the absolute mess that Dodge has inherited AND contributed to... what a freaking mess we have on our hands... BUT - I would like to state one more time - how great is it for the state of the program that with ALL of these problems, we are burning the note for the AC, selling more season tix than ever, filling the stands with losing records, and getting tv to cover our games (the list goes on and on)... the program has truly matured - especially when you read about the mess going on with the football program. Yikes!

Here is the link>

http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/coll...-about-unt.html

You may have already read this, but it starts out with the excerpt below and then lists off about 10 points of fact and 5 more ascertains.

Facts about UNT's "mess"

We referred to UNT's struggles in today's aftermath of Rice's 77-20 victory as a "mess" Todd Dodge stepped into. Actually, it was more a question than a statement.

Anyway, there's debate over Dodge's culpability 16 games into the job, and if the paper that best covers his old team at Southlake Carroll is giving him a pass. Here are facts meant neither to indict UNT's former coaching staff nor mitigate the current one. They're just realities.

I knew Dickey left a trail behind but I didn't know it was so dirty. This also after reading the TY blog. It's still a deep hole to dig out of. Yeah.

Edited October 2, 2008 by meangreendork

[CaribbeanGreen]

We need the cupboard post, TTG. Pronto.

[Green Guy Bass]

I would read Tina's recap of this. Sheds a different light on it

Fun with Facts

I find myself believing this more than Phillips article.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Here's a fact: unless UNT will triple what it spends on coaches, there is no need to make a coaching change.

We are so far behind the market, it is pitiful. None of this other stuff is going to matter until this gross shortcoming is addressed. I agree it is insane what has happened in this market, but it is what it is. If I had foreseen it, I would have chosen a different career path. Until the administration adopts a philosophy about coaching salaries that recognizes the realities of the market, you can expect to continue to see teams score three times (or more) as many points. If we will continue to play this game, then this change in philosophy must occur. If it will not occur, then we should stop playing the game, because the embarrassing results are a certainty. Accordingly, I'm laying off this program until this change in philosophy occurs.

Someone went on about how pitiful it would be to go out and appeal for money for a better coaching staff. I ask you, which is more pitiful, that, or the results we are seeing?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Bon voyage!

[NT80]

Interesting reads both, but now my head is spinning. So, when do we get back to the winning part of this story?

[STE]

Here's a fact: unless UNT will triple what it spends on coaches, there is no need to make a coaching change.

We are so far behind the market, it is pitiful. None of this other stuff is going to matter until this gross shortcoming is addressed. I agree it is insane what has happened in this market, but it is what it is. If I had foreseen it, I would have chosen a different career path. Until the administration adopts a philosophy about coaching salaries that recognizes the realities of the market, you can expect to continue to see teams score three times (or more) as many points. If we will continue to play this game, then this change in philosophy must occur. If it will not occur, then we should stop playing the game, because the embarrassing results are a certainty. Accordingly, I'm laying off this program until this change in philosophy occurs.

Someone went on about how pitiful it would be to go out and appeal for money for a better coaching staff. I ask you, which is more pitiful, that, or the results we are seeing?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Bon voyage!

That’s a very good point.

I’ve (and others) have been saying for a while that we’re falling grossly behind in the salary dept.

I’m all for the new stadium but in the end I don’t believe that it’s going to be what pushes us over the edge in terms of being competitive (at least not by itself).

SMU built Ford and what have they done since? Keep in mind for years they were paying Bennett something like 500K a year which is more than us but nothing in the big picture.

In the end, I think raising money to support a salary to get/keep a good coach is more important than a stadium. Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that programs have expanded their stadiums after they’ve developed their programs and fan bases. That usually happens when they get a good coach who wins and they’re able to keep him for a while. I assume they are able to keep their coaches and/or replace them with good coaches because they have to money to be competitive.

It’s kind of the chicken or the egg argument – what comes first – the stadium or the top notch coach?

We need both but let’s hope that RV is working on securing the donations needed to someday support a competitive salary.

[NT80]

SMU built Ford and what have they done since? Keep in mind for years they were paying Bennett something like 500K a year which is more than us but nothing in the big picture.

In the end, I think raising money to support a salary to get/keep a good coach is more important than a stadium.

SMUt w/$500K Bennett beat TCU.

SMUt w/$2mil Jones lost big to TCU.

Highly paid coaches don't guarantee wins.

[greenminer]

SMUt w/$500K Bennett beat TCU.

SMUt w/$2mil Jones lost big to TCU.

Highly paid coaches don't guarantee wins.

How did season ticket sales increase upon June's arrival?

If the Dodge love fest (not pointing this finger at you) is going to continue based on increased interest and fan investment, you have to hold the same candle to the Hilltop. Jones was a breathe of fresh air for them, and has already proved he could win in a university (see: college level) that is not supposed to win.

Since the latest craze is watching the first 16 games, let's see how Jones does and then evaluate things.

[STE]

SMUt w/$500K Bennett beat TCU.

SMUt w/$2mil Jones lost big to TCU.

Highly paid coaches don't guarantee wins.

Granted but that’s the exception not the rule.

This is JJ’s first year. Do you really think he is going to do worse that Bennett? Even if he fails, they will keep trying (at the tune of 2 mill a year) to hire someone that is going to win. They will eventually find a winner when they are willing to throw that type of cash around.

It’s my hope that RV raises donations and is able to use the interest off of those donations to supplement the salary that the university is willing to pay. For example, assuming he raises 10 mill (at 5% for the sake of simplicity) would generate 500K a year in addition to the 350K we’re paying Dodge. Alternatively, we could follow the UTEP plan and pay the head coach 1$ for every ticket sold. That’s not a lot but that’s more than what we’re currently doing.

Something needs to be done.

Also – speaking of stadium costs – I hope 60 mill is enough.

I love Ford stadium and would be blown away if we could have a stadium as nice as theirs. I seem to recall that Ford was built in 99-20 for a cost of just under 60 mill. Wikipedia says 42 million but that seems low. If it was 60 mill, there can no doubt that costs have gone up since then.

Does anyone remember the cost of Ford?

If we’re going to build a 32K seat stadium, it better be state of the art – bad a$$.

I’ve never been to MTSU or Troy. I know some of you have and say their stadiums are nice. However, they look cheap to me on TV.

I just don’t want an erector set stadium

[oldguystudent]

Dodge inherited 4 TEs with eligibility remaining: Charlie Brown

So that's the problem! I think Lucy's been holding the ball all season.

*No disrespect intended for Mr. Brown. I'm still learning who all the players are. Just playing off the name.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

We need both but let’s hope that RV is working on securing the donations needed to someday support a competitive salary.

I am sure, certain actually that RV is in fact securing the donations needed to support a competitive salary.

Right after he secures the money for the other half of our stadium.

[greenminer]

Right after he secures the money for the other half of our stadium.

Not to be confused upon signing!

"So if you'll please sign right on the dottooohmygosh let me just get the right one!"

"30 million contract?"

"Yeah sorry about that! Here's the one you need to sign.

my bad."

Edited October 2, 2008 by greenminer

[JesseMartin]

How much was what's-his-name making at Rutgers when they hit their miraculous turnaround?

I'd love to see years 4-5 of Dodgeball blow our minds like we'd hoped when he got hired. If that happens, look for donations to increase dramatically. Successful coaches provide themselves higher paychecks upon receipt of results.

[oldguystudent]

How much was what's-his-name making at Rutgers when they hit their miraculous turnaround?

I'd love to see years 4-5 of Dodgeball blow our minds like we'd hoped when he got hired. If that happens, look for donations to increase dramatically. Successful coaches provide themselves higher paychecks upon receipt of results.

When I finish school and become the supreme ruler of the universe, all athletes and all coaches will be paid like all sales people in the real world -- based solely on performance. No guaranteed money. You score a touchdown? Many thousands of dollars. You fumble the punt allowing the other team to score a touchdown? You're eating ramen tonight. For coaches, it's based on improving upon previous year's performance. Percentage increase in wins, ranking, prestige of bowl game. You win the national championship, just like in corporate America, I'll give you a pat on the back, a Mont Blanc pen, and demand you win the national championship next year then go on to conquer the European market!

I swear, if the real world were run like sports, we'd be giving all these executives unimaginable sums of guaranteed money even when they fail miserably...Oh...wait....

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Just to set the record straight I believe that there were seven tight ends going into the 2007 season:

Seidle, Gill, Brown, Collins, Ross, Carlson and Davenport. At least that's the way they were listed at one time.

[STE]

How much was what's-his-name making at Rutgers when they hit their miraculous turnaround?

I'd love to see years 4-5 of Dodgeball blow our minds like we'd hoped when he got hired. If that happens, look for donations to increase dramatically. Successful coaches provide themselves higher paychecks upon receipt of results.

According to this: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/foo...s-schiano_x.htm

1 million before signing a bonus taking him to 1.5

This site has him at 2.25 but I think that includes housing benefits as well- http://coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm

Everyone should visit that last web site just to get a perspective on the cost of doing buisiness today in D1 football.

[stebo]

But they were brought in as tight ends to be moved to another position. Do you remember the Dickey recruiting... "Geez, ANOTHER tight end? What are we going to do with yet another tight end?" - I thought it was more than 7 but I guess it was just 7. 3 of those converted to something else but anyways - they were tight ends by nature.

When it comes down to it - Dodge really was the best bang for our buck. Everyone forgets that we had to pay out Dickey's contract! It was a half million bucks! And we got Dodge for actually less than Dickey from what I remember. The incentives are higher but he has yet to come close to hitting any of those (maybe the season ticket one or the attendance one- but that's about it). We just kept losing people all Spring. I was just waiting for the paper to say that Riley had been diagnosed with a rare condition that would not allow him to continue with football. It was really one thing after another.

Have faith folks, please. I really (honestly) believe that Dodge can turn this around. I never believed he would make us a National Team (top 25) but I always and still believe that we can become a solid mid-major team again, with wins in the 7-8 range each year.

BTW, as we are discussing salary... You had better thank your lucky stars and the BOR that RV got the salary increased for Dickey while he was winning. That allowed us to pay Dodge a salary that isn't a complete embarassment. It is low, but it isn't the lowest. I don't even think that his salary is in the top half of the Belt... The Belt has much higher salaries than the MAC though. Anyways, that is one thing that RV did very well - using that momentum to get pay raises for coaches. That way when the coaches left, he could (and will) negotiate bettter pay for their replacements without it being a big deal. Just remember that when RV got here, Dickey was making $107K a year INCLUDING incentives... and his assistants were alll making in the 20K range with the exception of his coordinators whom were making at the 45K range. A lot of that has been helped out now - not completely corrected, but helped out....but it is still not even close to keeping up with the Joneses..

And finally - the fee is to fund the program. This is not a fund JUST for a stadium. The students can only pay for half by law. There will be money to raise salaries with this fee. This fee is critical.

[DirtySavage]

I'm glad someone is talking about how bad a coach drake is. This guy doesn't know how to coach at this level. He should have gotten the ax when Mendoza did. As far as special teams go he is not fit to hold eric russells jock. And he doesn't coach the dt's hardly at all which is ok for the players with college experience but is terrible for the kids who are young and developing. Film sessions with that guy is a joke. I dont know how much the average guy knows about film study but you dont just let the film run. He is an average highschool coach and that is where he belongs. A terrible hire by dodge.

[UNTLifer]

I'm glad someone is talking about how bad a coach drake is. This guy doesn't know how to coach at this level. He should have gotten the ax when Mendoza did. As far as special teams go he is not fit to hold eric russells jock. And he doesn't coach the dt's hardly at all which is ok for the players with college experience but is terrible for the kids who are young and developing. Film sessions with that guy is a joke. I dont know how much the average guy knows about film study but you dont just let the film run. He is an average highschool coach and that is where he belongs. A terrible hire by dodge.

I would assume from your post that you have access to these film sessions and practice, so based upon that, do you work for the athletic department?