Have We Lost All Of The Momentun Of The Dodge Hire?

gangrene · September 29, 2008

Awareness and excitement of UNT football was at a very high level a mere 22 months ago. We were the talk of the town in all the media and even garnered some national attention for our bold hire of a successful high school coach. We had the attention of a lot of high school players that hadn't previously even considered North Texas. Many praised our decision to hire Dodge (while only a few ridiculed it) and predicted unprecedented success for both Dodge (moving on to a BCS school in the near future) and UNT.

Has all of that momentum already faded off into the sunset??

Mean Green 93-98 · September 29, 2008

Oh yes, the momentum is gone. There is no shine left on the fresh new Dodge hire.

That said, he is still well-connected among Texas HS coaches, many of whom may not have lost their confidence in him.

CaribbeanGreen · September 29, 2008

but what have those connections netted us? The biggest disappointment to me is that there was no pipeline. We'd heard so much about it, and it never materialized... at this point, if Dodge turns it around, it will be based on his own work and merits exclusively, and not on his connections or imagined "pipeline"...

Mean Green 93-98 · September 29, 2008

but what have those connections netted us? The biggest disappointment to me is that there was no pipeline. We'd heard so much about it, and it never materialized... at this point, if Dodge turns it around, it will be based on his own work and merits exclusively, and not on his connections or imagined "pipeline"...

I do not understand your post. We just had the most highly-ranked recruiting class in NT history, and you say his connections had nothing to do with it?

CaribbeanGreen · September 29, 2008

No pipeline formed at SLC as we heard would happen, and I'm not talking about "ratings" here. The first class or two was the ONLY time we would see recruiting based off of Dodge's high school success. After that point, kids don't care what he did at Southlake -- show me what you're doing now. There's concrete evidence of that.

I don't know what relationships opened what doors for Dodge in past recruiting, but that's done now (and I question it was ever there to start with, not to the extent we believed).

The ratings on the field are all I care about, and those speak for themselves so far. We DID get a pipeline to Beebe-esque receivers I suppose, so that's nice. Just wish we weren't so thin at that position.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 29, 2008

Awareness and excitement of UNT football was at a very high level a mere 22 months ago. We were the talk of the town in all the media and even garnered some national attention for our bold hire of a successful high school coach. We had the attention of a lot of high school players that hadn't previously even considered North Texas. Many praised our decision to hire Dodge (while only a few ridiculed it) and predicted unprecedented success for both Dodge (moving on to a BCS school in the near future) and UNT.
Has all of that momentum already faded off into the sunset??

If there was any left going into this season, after saturday it is gone.

gangrene · September 29, 2008

but what have those connections netted us? The biggest disappointment to me is that there was no pipeline. We'd heard so much about it, and it never materialized... at this point, if Dodge turns it around, it will be based on his own work and merits exclusively, and not on his connections or imagined "pipeline"...

Exactly. We have no pipeline to SLC much less any other school in Texas that Dodge was so-called "connected" with their head coach/coaching staff. I remember reading how close Dodge and the Brenham HS head coach were, yet I've seen no fewer than 5 excellent FBS prospects sign with other schools while UNT has had no fewer than ZERO Brenham prospects sign.

The jury is still out on several of our current players that played for Dodge at SLC but, aside from Riley, none of the others had any legitimate FBS offers. It was unfortunate that Fentriss suffered a career-ending injury (I would have loved to see him play against Rice) and it seems like Padron dissed us for the enemy across town. The legitimate SLC kids never really thought twice about UNT.

My two biggest concerns about hiring Dodge were his lack of experience on the collegiate level and his ability to recruit FBS talent. I was pleasantly surprised on the recruiting front and I thought the first two recruiting classes were phenomenal but now I'm no longer convinced. There's still a lot of time left on determining the success of those two classes but we've already lost a LOT from each of those two classes. If re-rating/re-ranking our classes were to occur now (as sports writers normally do after the class graduates), I guarantee our classes would already be ranked much lower than they were on national signing day.

Edited September 30, 2008 by gangrene

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 29, 2008

There was no momentum, except in the minds of the true believers. The rest of us understood full well that we were getting a high school coach, along with most of his high school coaching staff. Those of us who doubted we pooh-poohed because "football is football."

Well, football is certainly football. The only problem is that there are different levels of football. Dodge had no experience at the highest collegiate level, and almost none of his assistants did either.

No big name recruit has considered us. I cannot think of one recruit so far that had me fired up when they committed. There never was any pipeline. The best recruits are still going elsewhere. And, many of the guys Dodge signed have either left or haven't panned out.

Most importantly, the guy never knew that football was about what happens on the offensive and defensive lines. He wasted two years signing defensive backs and receivers, relatively few have shown any ability to be a game-changer. The best players on the team are still DD's holdovers.

I've predicted that we'd win the next two games, but I'm probably still in the pipedream days where the Sun Belt wasn't competitive from top to bottom. Now that it is, Dodge is in deeper than he ever thought he'd be. I know that the next two are, in theory, "winnable." On paper, we should hold FIU in single digits. But, I doubt we will.

GrandGreen · September 29, 2008

I think anyone who thought TD or any other coach in America was going to compete with top tier teams for recruits is naive at best. Non-big 6 conference schools are rarely going to win a recruit away from a power school. Much more successful teams such as Boise State, TCU and Utah don't and neither does NT. What TD did last year was amazing based on where he was starting from, he won most of his recruiting battles against the non-big 6 conference schools in the area such as Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, etc.

Unless NT makes a drastic turnaround this year and the stadium vote passes, It is going to be very challenging for TD to approach last year's recruiting success. TD does have good high school connections and a positive approach to recruiting that will continue to serve him well. However, I think if NT fails to announce a successful stadium campaign; NT's football program will face the most serious challenge in history other than the move to 1AA.

Dodge2007 · September 29, 2008

The state of Texas is loaded with players who never get an offer who could contribute at UNT and many other programs. The key is how to find such players. There are many kids who play out of position at the high school level that no one knows.

Recruiting is an art but it is also a lot of luck for programs in the Belt, the MAC, and the WAC, even Conference USA.

When a kid looks at Fouts, that is a tough sell, I don't care if your DD or TD or Mack Brown.

eulesseagle · September 29, 2008

Wow, another whine and cheese sewing circle party.

I have been attending NT games since the last season of Otis Mitchell.

Coach's Dodge and DeLoach are the real deal and excellent hires for NT because of their "reputations."

What you fail to realize, at this point, is how terrible the NT FB talent was, and still is to some extent, when Coach Dodge was hired. He has and continues to bring in excellent talent into the program that I have not seen in decades. Unlike Coach Dickey who was somewhat imfamous for "stealth" recruiting Coach Dodge goes after the best players "overtly" and gets some of them. He has amasses excellent quality sophmores and now freshmen to our team. IMHO, when you have a bunch of freshmen and sophmores playing.....evidently.....they are beating out juniors and seniors. Do you kinda get the picture of the state of the NT FB program? Nobody can turn around a program that has fallen as far as ours overnight.....not even Coach Fry.

Our offense is getting progressively better and our defense is getting some excellent young talent that probably need another year or two to develop. Coach DeLoach will get the "D" developed with excellent recruits. From NT to UCLA is a mighty big jump in college coaching circles. That is how much respect that coaches have for Coach "D."

Coach Dodge is probably one of the best respected coaches in the state of Texas and has innumerable ties to the coaching ranks. The talent he has brought into our program is tremendous.

The sad part about all this is that some of you "don't get it."

So continue with your whine and cheese ..... continue to recite the opening scene of Hamlet...."trouble, trouble toil and trouble."

As for me ...... come Saturday my butt will be in the bleachers, again, supporting Coach Dodge and NT football.

As for you...... ??

greenagain · September 29, 2008

Wow, another whine and cheese sewing circle party.
I have been attending NT games since the last season of Otis Mitchell.
Coach's Dodge and DeLoach are the real deal and excellent hires for NT because of their "reputations."
What you fail to realize, at this point, is how terrible the NT FB talent was, and still is to some extent, when Coach Dodge was hired. He has and continues to bring in excellent talent into the program that I have not seen in decades. Unlike Coach Dickey who was somewhat imfamous for "stealth" recruiting Coach Dodge goes after the best players "overtly" and gets some of them. He has amasses excellent quality sophmores and now freshmen to our team. IMHO, when you have a bunch of freshmen and sophmores playing.....evidently.....they are beating out juniors and seniors. Do you kinda get the picture of the state of the NT FB program? Nobody can turn around a program that has fallen as far as ours overnight.....not even Coach Fry.
Our offense is getting progressively better and our defense is getting some excellent young talent that probably need another year or two to develop. Coach DeLoach will get the "D" developed with excellent recruits. From NT to UCLA is a mighty big jump in college coaching circles. That is how much respect that coaches have for Coach "D."
Coach Dodge is probably one of the best respected coaches in the state of Texas and has innumerable ties to the coaching ranks. The talent he has brought into our program is tremendous.
The sad part about all this is that some of you "don't get it."
So continue with your whine and cheese ..... continue to recite the opening scene of Hamlet...."trouble, trouble toil and trouble."
As for me ...... come Saturday my butt will be in the bleachers, again, supporting Coach Dodge and NT football.
As for you...... ??

greenagain · September 30, 2008

Wow, another whine and cheese sewing circle party.
I have been attending NT games since the last season of Otis Mitchell.
Coach's Dodge and DeLoach are the real deal and excellent hires for NT because of their "reputations."
What you fail to realize, at this point, is how terrible the NT FB talent was, and still is to some extent, when Coach Dodge was hired. He has and continues to bring in excellent talent into the program that I have not seen in decades. Unlike Coach Dickey who was somewhat imfamous for "stealth" recruiting Coach Dodge goes after the best players "overtly" and gets some of them. He has amasses excellent quality sophmores and now freshmen to our team. IMHO, when you have a bunch of freshmen and sophmores playing.....evidently.....they are beating out juniors and seniors. Do you kinda get the picture of the state of the NT FB program? Nobody can turn around a program that has fallen as far as ours overnight.....not even Coach Fry.
Our offense is getting progressively better and our defense is getting some excellent young talent that probably need another year or two to develop. Coach DeLoach will get the "D" developed with excellent recruits. From NT to UCLA is a mighty big jump in college coaching circles. That is how much respect that coaches have for Coach "D."
Coach Dodge is probably one of the best respected coaches in the state of Texas and has innumerable ties to the coaching ranks. The talent he has brought into our program is tremendous.
The sad part about all this is that some of you "don't get it."
So continue with your whine and cheese ..... continue to recite the opening scene of Hamlet...."trouble, trouble toil and trouble."
As for me ...... come Saturday my butt will be in the bleachers, again, supporting Coach Dodge and NT football.
As for you...... ??
You must be either related or Riley - The best players still were recruited prior to TD and in case you don't remember in 2004 we were playing in our 4th straight bowl game.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 30, 2008

Exactly. We have no pipeline to SLC much less any other school in Texas that Dodge was so-called "connected" with their head coach/coaching staff. I remember reading how close Dodge and the Brenham HS head coach were, yet I've seen no fewer than 5 excellent FBS prospects sign with other schools while UNT has had no fewer than ZERO Brenham prospects sign.

You people are making no sense. A "connection" is not a guarantee, but it is a contact. Kind of like "referrals" in sales--they don't guarantee you a sale, but you'll sure take as many of them as you can get. And yes, Todd Dodge did sign a player out of Brenham, so your example falls flat in addition to being false.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Mean Green 93-98

Smitty · September 30, 2008

I would suggest the answer to the question posed in this thread will come this off season. If Dodge can bring in a class heavy - and I mean heavy - on linemen, then there is reason to be optimistic. UNT has got to get some beef in here to control the line of scrimmage.

filmerj · September 30, 2008

So continue with your whine and cheese ..... continue to recite the opening scene of Hamlet...."trouble, trouble toil and trouble."
As for you...... ??

Isn't that from Macbeth? I am really pissed, but I will be there Saturday.

TheTastyGreek · September 30, 2008

Isn't that from Macbeth? I am really pissed, but I will be there Saturday.

I thought it was the opening sentence of Speer's autobiography.

gangrene · September 30, 2008

You people are making no sense. A "connection" is not a guarantee, but it is a contact. Kind of like "referrals" in sales--they don't guarantee you a sale, but you'll sure take as many of them as you can get. And yes, Todd Dodge did sign a player out of Brenham, so your example falls flat in addition to being false.

Who is this mysterious Brenham recruit Coach Dodge signed? I follow the recruiting circles pretty closely but, still, it's possible I might have missed one. I just checked the 2008 UNT roster...no players from Brenham. Whoever it is, it's most definitely not one of the top prospects I was hoping we'd at least get a nibble from...I know where they signed.

I'm not saying Dodge can't recruit talent and I much prefer his open records style to Dickey's stealth technique. However, getting the best talent (that nobody else seems to want) from state title teams isn't proving to be the recipe to success.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 30, 2008

Who is this mysterious Brenham recruit Coach Dodge signed? I follow the recruiting circles pretty closely but, still, it's possible I might have missed one. I just checked the 2008 UNT roster...no players from Brenham.

Kevin Ealey. He didn't work out, but he was a pretty good catch at the time.

eulesseagle · September 30, 2008

ok, i stand corrected...mcbeth not hamlet.....

speer became a evangilist after his trial...with the help of one of the military chaplins, gerecke. there are some interesting writings on this particular u.s. army chaplin at nuremberg (sp).

Edited September 30, 2008 by eulesseagle

Charlie NT 73 · September 30, 2008

Have we lost all the momentum of the Coach Todd Dodge hire?

Not no, but Hell No!

I agree with Euless Eagle on all of his points in his posting.

Very good posting I will add!

I would not trade Coach Dodge for any other coach, regardless

of what the win loss record is. Kids come to a school becasue

of the head coach and his staff. Coach Dodge and his staff

recruit the entire state of Texas and there is not one high school

football athlete or coach, that does not know who Coach Dodge is.

Coach Dodge and his staff have renewed "pipelines" and re-open

many closed doors to NT recruiting that is paying off now!

Would you want DD out recruiting for North Texas or Coach

Dodge? Coach Dodge took over a program that was going no

where. Coach Dodge started recruiting, and has brought in 2 top

recruiting classes, where almost all of the kids in these 2 classes

are playing now. The momentum is still there, and will continue

to grow. Add in the new FB stadium, and even better kids will

come to North Texas. Count on that! No, the momentum is not

fading. I would say the momentum is becoming brighter every day.

rcade · September 30, 2008

Has all of that momentum already faded off into the sunset??

Yep.

rcade · September 30, 2008

Coach Dodge started recruiting, and has brought in 2 top
recruiting classes, where almost all of the kids in these 2 classes
are playing now. The momentum is still there ...

I hope your optimism is right in the long run, but right now the only momentum we have is downward. If Dodge's recruiting classes are "top" and are playing now, there must be a definition of "top" that does not include on-field success. We got big problems here. Dodge's sophomore season can still be righted by Sun Belt play, but the team failed the OOC test about as bad as could be imagined.

UNTLifer · September 30, 2008

...I thought the first two recruiting classes were phenomenal but now I'm no longer convinced. There's still a lot of time left on determining the success of those two classes but we've already lost a LOT from each of those two classes. If re-rating/re-ranking our classes were to occur now (as sports writers normally do after the class graduates[/b[), I guarantee our classes would already be ranked much lower than they were on national signing day.

You are no longer convinced these were excellent recruiting classes? Why? These young men are either freshmen, RS freshmen or sophmores at this point. As you mention, classes are re-rated, at least by DCTF, after they graduate not two years into their collegiate career.

Most of our past team leaders emerged in their junior year, Kennedy, Hurd, Casey, Spencer, Jones, Zuniga, Cobbs, Galbreath, etc... not their freshmen or sophmore years. Give these young men a chance to mature. While sitting at the Rice game I saw more young athletic ability on this team than I ever recall seeing in a North Texas team, but when 2/3rd's of your scholarship players are sophmores or younger, you are going to go through growing pains. Considering the circumstances Dodge walked in to when he was hired, I think giving him time until his first group of players becomes seniors is fair. Doesn't make it easy to watch, but it is the right thing to do.

Green Mean · September 30, 2008

From the day he got hired....I am just not sure how much true momentum he had. No doubt he had some but I think for many when push came to shove, really good recruits would not come to NT if they had a better place to go. I am not saying it is all Dodge's fault but he was still a high school coach at that time and since then he's had nothing but blowouts even by mediocre teams. On top of that you have the horrible Fouts which makes things worse. I guess we truly wont know for another year or two how much momentum he had because all of his players are still young and have some ways to go for experience.