College Of Music Sga Rep New Stadium Comments

[UNTFan23]

You are right, I wan't.

But I think I have brought this up now 3 or 4 times and no one seems to know the answer to this question, so who knows.

I guess for the next game we need to look around under the stands cause I know I have always wondered how we powered the temp vendors (like kettle corn). I know they use one generator in the Mean Green Village to power the music stage. There might be another one floating around near the kids area to power the inflatables.

You gotta remember that Fouts is working on a 50 year old power grid.

For the academic buildings, it doesn't take a whole lot of juice to power lights and a hand full of (unused) plugs. The biggest draw of electricity in any academic building would be the central air system. I'd say that over the years, lighting has become more energy efficient, so power needs for the academic buildings isn't as great as ... say ... a stadium with 6 light stands with at least 2 dozen 1000 watt metal halide bulbs on each stand.

[trud1966]

Alright, so can someone explain to me why every building on the campus, even ones that are extremely old, are not running on generators but our football stadium is? I guess I need someone to explain this more in depth, because I have been in many buildings that are well over 50 years old that are not run by generators.

It would take an electrical engineer to fully explain all of it, but, this is the condensed simplified version. But typically, when a building is designed, an engineer anticipates the electrical load that be required based on all of the activities. So a building is equipped with a Panel of X number of "Amps" (Dont ask me what that number is) The number of amps run to Fouts originally no longer works. Why? Because times obviously times change. The pressbox probably has been updated over the years with more outlets for more equipment. Lighting has probably been upgraded in parts of the stadium. There's got to be much more computer equipment pulling amps for vending, computers, communications. I dont know about the lights on the stadium, and we might assume theyre very old, but it could be that they hvae been upgraded a couple of times over years. Scoreboards have been updated over the years. Also, anyone who's walked to their cars after the game has seen the generator stations powering the temporary parking lights for security. These are probably included in the "generator" list RV spoke of.

The list over 56 years of upgrades is probably endless, but the short of the long, the stadium pulls much more amps that it did when it was built. How do you solve this? You either provide more power to the stadium via installing by installing more panels. Or, you rent generators to supplement the additional load. I cant answer as to why they chose generators over providing more electrical service to the stadium. I'm sure someone has considered all the options. It could be something like all the additional electrical load is not availble in the immediate area of the stadium and the power company tells UNT, "if you want that power, we're going to have to bring in from the closest point, and that's 4000 feet down the road" = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Again, that's not a quote, just an example of a constuction feasibility nightmare that can cause someone to choose other options, ergo, on site generators.

True, there are alot of buildings on campus that exceed 50 years old. And yes, their times change as well. But those buildings might have had more power brought in over the years. Also, a building, on average probably doenst have as much going on power wise during the day as say a Stadium does for an intense 4 hours, so its really not a fair comparison.

Whew....And I thought I'd keep it simple. Me and my big mouth...

[TheTastyGreek]

Here's a fun hypothetical question for you...

If we're using 19 generators per game to power our stadium... And it's a serious expense that's hurting our budget...

Why do we schedule our home games for 6 p.m.? Wouldn't scheduling for 1 or 2 p.m., thus ensuring that games end while the sun is still up, dramatically reduce our power needs?

[akriesman]

Jacqueline Giroir, YOU ROCK !!!

[filmerj]

Here's a fun hypothetical question for you...

If we're using 19 generators per game to power our stadium... And it's a serious expense that's hurting our budget...

Why do we schedule our home games for 6 p.m.? Wouldn't scheduling for 1 or 2 p.m., thus ensuring that games end while the sun is still up, dramatically reduce our power needs?

Your thinking too much. oh wait you said it was a hypothetical question.

[stebo]

God, where do you start to explain the power at Fouts. Remember the Baylor game? You know - the one we won? Well the power was so bad that their headsets weren't even working on the sidelines. At halftime, the Baylor team had NO power in their locker room. None. It simply went out and there was nothing that could be done to fix it. These basic "amenities" - you know, running water, electricity... the really FANCY stuff... and our lack of them has been what has kept teams like TCU, Houston, and Baylor from wanting to return to Fouts. You don't think that it is the stadium size that keeps them away do you? That is a really bad myth. It is because Fouts is a dump underneath those stands. The outside isn't half bad as long as you have binoculars. The infrstructure is just absolutely terrible. A new stadium will get all sorts of schools "back" to Denton, they want a winnable game just as much as we want the crowd. Teams like Tulsa have had their own stadium problems so they are a little more understanding.

When the Daktronics went in, they pulled up the concrete all the way across the road to the Gateway Center and ran a line just for the video scoreboard. When people were asking why we couldn't get a jumbotron, the main reason was never cost of the actual scoreboard - it was always power. The scoreboard has advertisers and sponsors and it can be paid out over time. The problem was always power. I don't even think that Fouts had lights on it when built... those were added later. Before someone corrects me - I might be wrong on this, but I think that the lights were added on... If there were lights on the original structure than they were probably very different and not very bright. Thank goodness they got that right. The Rubber Bowl in Akron added their lights with the poles in front of the crowd so that you can't sit behind the lightpoles, lol. Anyways - I am going to guess that we have tried to put as little as possible into Fouts over the last 8 years because it was A ) A waste of money and B ) Not available (the money)... The jumbotron was one of those - well, we need to give people some sort of game time experience. God, the fans that are new now have no idea how bad Fouts USED to be. Does anyone else remember Fouts before RV got it renovated? During the Helwig era? Geez.... it was really bad. When RV first got here he tried to get the jumbotron installed and we got the Daktronics people to "loan" us a portable one for a game or two... I seem to remember it being at the home game against Houston. It was really, really sad to hear the people "oooooooh, and ahhhhhhh" over this jumbotron on a trailer. Funny stuff actually. Then they ran the power line from the Gateway Center and boom - up goes brand new Video Scoreboard and two more in the Super Pit (which in my opinion as too small for an arena of that size but are definitely better than the Commodore 64 they were using to run the previous scoreboard Helwig also once brought in portable luxury boxes, that is another long post that I won't bore you with, lol

I think that the figures speak volumes. Fouts was built for what, $500K? So if you adjust that for inflation it comes out to like $7 or $8 million? What could we build with $7 or $8 million now? The jumbotron and the field turf together were $3 million. The aluminum stands were added for a million bucks thanks to Budweiser (Ben E Keith and Troy LaGrone). The lights are probably a couple million bucks to put up brand new (like, all of the lights...)... so if we were to take the entire budget of the track stadium that Fouts is (remember, they also had to pay for a full track and all the amenities with that money)... we would basically be able to buy a scoreboard, MAYBE run power to it, throw up some aluminum bleachers, some lights, and put a field down. That is the budget that Fouts was built on and it has made it for over a half century. I would say that we gotten our money's worth. Time to tear that puppy down.

Quick question... I see that Texas Stadium is selling off the seats one by one... I think that one seat is like $500 bucks or something. Is there anything that you guys would buy from Fouts before they tear it down? I really can't think of a single thing. How sad is that? Maybe the bricks from the demolition? I guess that I would pay for that - a piece of Fouts blown up for like $20 bucks. Pretty sad if you really think about it. Perhaps there are some lockers underneath that might be worth some money to a donor if cleaned up properly.

Edited September 19, 2008 by stebo

[stebo]

God, thinking about those Helwig days got me chuckling a little. Does anyone remember the "Green Seats" campaign? What about the first Athletic Center - that old dumpy distribution warehouse that was going to be our AC before we realized that was just ridiculous? Portable Video Boards. Portable luxury boxes. Do you all remember the push to bring IA football back? I can remember the free beer in the BIG tent and Deep Blue Something playing Breakfast at Tiffany's to the crowd. They made you go in the tent and be "counted" for attendance before letting you drink the free beer and listen to the music. We were really running stuff on gimmicks and smoke and mirrors back then, haha. I remember when Trilli ball came to town and he remarked that he felt right at home in the Pit because all the seats were orange. This was before we even had cup holders for our drinks. Man, we really have come a long way. I can remember Mean Rob putting together the first tailgating efforts... people have no idea how bad it was. If someone actually came to the game, they would wander up sometime about half way through... you really couldn't tell that there was an event going on as you passed on the highway... the pre-crowd did not happen, it just didn't exist... in fact - it was against the rules. Tailgating was not allowed back then. Yikes, I am going to throw up in my mouth.

[JesseMartin]

I cant answer as to why they chose generators over providing more electrical service to the stadium. I'm sure someone has considered all the options. It could be something like all the additional electrical load is not availble in the immediate area of the stadium and the power company tells UNT, "if you want that power, we're going to have to bring in from the closest point, and that's 4000 feet down the road" = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Again, that's not a quote, just an example of a constuction feasibility nightmare that can cause someone to choose other options, ergo, on site generators.

Not to sound coy or anything, but maybe they didn't upgrade because they were hoping for a new stadium instead of spending 50% as much to upgrade the piece of crap that is Fouts Field.

[UNT_playmaker]

God, thinking about those Helwig days got me chuckling a little. Does anyone remember the "Green Seats" campaign? What about the first Athletic Center - that old dumpy distribution warehouse that was going to be our AC before we realized that was just ridiculous? Portable Video Boards. Portable luxury boxes. Do you all remember the push to bring IA football back? I can remember the free beer in the BIG tent and Deep Blue Something playing Breakfast at Tiffany's to the crowd. They made you go in the tent and be "counted" for attendance before letting you drink the free beer and listen to the music. We were really running stuff on gimmicks and smoke and mirrors back then, haha. I remember when Trilli ball came to town and he remarked that he felt right at home in the Pit because all the seats were orange. This was before we even had cup holders for our drinks. Man, we really have come a long way. I can remember Mean Rob putting together the first tailgating efforts... people have no idea how bad it was. If someone actually came to the game, they would wander up sometime about half way through... you really couldn't tell that there was an event going on as you passed on the highway... the pre-crowd did not happen, it just didn't exist... in fact - it was against the rules. Tailgating was not allowed back then. Yikes, I am going to throw up in my mouth.

Stebo, Im actually laughing as I remember the push for green seats in the Super Pit, we had such a nice arena but those awful orange seats made it look longhorn friendly. Trilli wasnt a thrill as a coach up here but he did a great job with the campaign for new seats.

[UNT_playmaker]

Actually I think the generator stories that are being said are true because I did see them in the stadium flyers and it would explain the Baylor game. I am still in shock that generators are used for a 30,500 seat stadium. Just goes to show how dire our need is for a new facility. I think when Fouts gets torn down their will be a large watching party.

Also the Hurricane I predicted years back was a desperation move to see Fouts Field taken down by any force of mother nature. Because I knew it was not going to get torn down by any other means ( UNT admins ).

Go Mean Green

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Here's a fun hypothetical question for you...

If we're using 19 generators per game to power our stadium... And it's a serious expense that's hurting our budget...

Why do we schedule our home games for 6 p.m.? Wouldn't scheduling for 1 or 2 p.m., thus ensuring that games end while the sun is still up, dramatically reduce our power needs?

This is a good hypothetical.

Thanks to all who gave me a better idea of the generators. Would be interesting to see what old stadiums there are out there like Ohio State and maybe Michigan and how old they are and how many generators they take.

We might need a hypothetical thread though. Here is one: If you had to choose between have the temperature of 0 degress, 365 days out of the year, or 100 degress, 365 days out of the year, which would you choose?

[LongJim]

Another factoid regarding Fouts: In a TV game from Fouts a couple of years ago, there had to be an extra, portable temporary light standard put up to increase the lighting enough to broadcast the game on ESPN without it looking like the teams were playing in the dark.

[RETSO]

The Good Old Days...Deep Blue Something+ Free Beer + UNT vs Abliene Christian + post game at Muther's $3 pitchers....

Thats the Denton I knew and Loved!!!!!!

[NT80]

When the Daktronics went in, they pulled up the concrete all the way across the road to the Gateway Center and ran a line just for the video scoreboard. When people were asking why we couldn't get a jumbotron, the main reason was never cost of the actual scoreboard - it was always power. The scoreboard has advertisers and sponsors and it can be paid out over time. The problem was always power. I don't even think that Fouts had lights on it when built... those were added later. Before someone corrects me - I might be wrong on this, but I think that the lights were added on... If there were lights on the original structure than they were probably very different and not very bright. Thank goodness they got that right. The Rubber Bowl in Akron added their lights with the poles in front of the crowd so that you can't sit behind the lightpoles, lol. Anyways - I am going to guess that we have tried to put as little as possible into Fouts over the last 8 years because it was A ) A waste of money and B ) Not available (the money)... The jumbotron was one of those - well, we need to give people some sort of game time experience. God, the fans that are new now have no idea how bad Fouts USED to be. Does anyone else remember Fouts before RV got it renovated? During the Helwig era? Geez.... it was really bad. When RV first got here he tried to get the jumbotron installed and we got the Daktronics people to "loan" us a portable one for a game or two... I seem to remember it being at the home game against Houston. It was really, really sad to hear the people "oooooooh, and ahhhhhhh" over this jumbotron on a trailer. Funny stuff actually. Then they ran the power line from the Gateway Center and boom - up goes brand new Video Scoreboard and two more in the Super Pit (which in my opinion as too small for an arena of that size but are definitely better than the Commodore 64 they were using to run the previous scoreboard Helwig also once brought in portable luxury boxes, that is another long post that I won't bore you with, lol

Nope, sorry, Fouts has always had lights since it was built. True they were much weaker lights than the ones we have today. In fact the ones we now have I believe were upgraded around 2003 for TV purposes and draw a huge amout of power, thus the need for even more generators?

http://www.unt.edu/northtexan/images/s03fouts3.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...v%3D2%26hl%3Den

I enjoyed reading your writeup of the Helwig/Trilli era. I wish someone would compile a history of UNT Athletics someday with stories from fans and what we had to endure as a fan base over time (Harry? MeanRob?). Would it make a good movie?

[DeepGreen]

No doubt, everyone's input on Fouts is correct. If it had lights when originally built they were probably bare minimum. Everything electrically related is old. But so were other football/multi-purpose stadiums that were build long before Fouts. I doubt Kyle Field had electrical problems when they upgraded their lighting from the original lighting schemes. But somehow they found a way to overcome the increased loads of their electrical system. Like, maybe they went to Brazos Power and Light and had a substation build nearby. Has NT had the foresight to get a substation added near the campus? C'mon, running a cable from Fouts to the Gateway Center to power a Daktronics scoreboard??? And we still have to rent 19 generators for each game?? Crazy.

Does UNT plan for anything athletics wise??

[Green P1]

This is a good hypothetical.

Thanks to all who gave me a better idea of the generators. Would be interesting to see what old stadiums there are out there like Ohio State and maybe Michigan and how old they are and how many generators they take.

We might need a hypothetical thread though. Here is one: If you had to choose between have the temperature of 0 degress, 365 days out of the year, or 100 degress, 365 days out of the year, which would you choose?

Could we alternate years?

[Travis Scott]

I just have to say thanks to the history lessons on this thread. I have been a huge Mean Green fan for many years but I'm not as 'experienced in life' as those that posted about the past. It truly does paint some perspective on what we have now. I graduated in 2002 and we have made many steps since even then. I'm all for educating the student body on what we used to have so that they can appreciate what we will have. Thanks again!

[greenjoe]

I recall back in the 60s when the lights at Fouts Field were replaced. The old (original ?) lights were moved to Bronco Field (Bronco Field originally had lights between the stands and the field). Anyway, the current lights at Fouts are at least the second set of lights.

I recall during a game back when Fred McCain was the Athletic Director, we were playing somebody, and I overheard a visiting fan remark about the number of burned out lamps in the lghts. He was convinced that they were unscrewed to spell out "go NT" or something crazy.

I mentioned it to Fred later. "We would never do that," he said

GO MEAN GREEN

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Could we alternate years?

Nope, one or the other, all of the time.

[Censored by Laurie]

This is a good hypothetical.

Thanks to all who gave me a better idea of the generators. Would be interesting to see what old stadiums there are out there like Ohio State and maybe Michigan and how old they are and how many generators they take.

We might need a hypothetical thread though. Here is one: If you had to choose between have the temperature of 0 degress, 365 days out of the year, or 100 degress, 365 days out of the year, which would you choose?

100 degrees...hands down...if for no other reason consider the neccessary grooming practices of the fairer sex...

Heat = Smooth

Cold = "its cold out and I really don't care what you'd prefer...you men don't have to shave your legs...you're just going to have to fight through it because you were the one who made the choice in this hypothetical. Do you think this thermal parka makes me look fat?"

[Green P1]

I'd have to go 100. With 0, the population of the North Texas area would be cut in half due to the panic of cold weather driving.

[SilverEagle]

Nope, sorry, Fouts has always had lights since it was built. True they were much weaker lights than the ones we have today. In fact the ones we now have I believe were upgraded around 2003 for TV purposes and draw a huge amout of power, thus the need for even more generators?

http://www.unt.edu/northtexan/images/s03fouts3.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...v%3D2%26hl%3Den

I enjoyed reading your writeup of the Helwig/Trilli era. I wish someone would compile a history of UNT Athletics someday with stories from fans and what we had to endure as a fan base over time (Harry? MeanRob?). Would it make a good movie?

I think that a "History" thread permanently pinned at the top would be a great idea. I would add GrayEagleone and Screaming Eagle 66, and GGII to the list of people to make regular contributions.

[Stan R]

Great Idea SE!

[untgirl04]

Here's a fun hypothetical question for you...

If we're using 19 generators per game to power our stadium... And it's a serious expense that's hurting our budget...

Why do we schedule our home games for 6 p.m.? Wouldn't scheduling for 1 or 2 p.m., thus ensuring that games end while the sun is still up, dramatically reduce our power needs?

Just posting a guess here, but it could be that we play our home games at 6 p.m. because it's 110 degrees on the students side at 3 p.m in the those metal stands. I don't remember which game it was (they all tend to run together after a point), but in one game the student's side ran out of water before the half. We were all baking in the sun, and quite a few ended up with heat stroke. It was miserable. Also, a 6p.m. time slot gives more people an opportunity to travel from out-of-town to the game, and to tailgate for a longer time.

So I guess you have to weigh your options: Do you want to have a 3 p.m. game and risk students not coming because it's too hot and alumni and opposing fans not coming because they don't have time to get there (or to spend hours in the parking lot drinking beer), or have a 6 p.m. game which requires generators, but allows for a better game-day experience?

[GoMeanGreen1999]

100 degrees...hands down...if for no other reason consider the neccessary grooming practices of the fairer sex...

Heat = Smooth

Cold = "its cold out and I really don't care what you'd prefer...you men don't have to shave your legs...you're just going to have to fight through it because you were the one who made the choice in this hypothetical. Do you think this thermal parka makes me look fat?"

I'd have to go 100. With 0, the population of the North Texas area would be cut in half due to the panic of cold weather driving.

Both very good points.