Where Is The Special Teams Coverage?

Will to Win · September 14, 2008

Truman is doing a great job punting but where in the heck is the coverage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will to Win · September 14, 2008

There you go! Punt towards the sideline. Holiday is way too fast and we are way to bad for him to run the ball back on punt returns.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 14, 2008

Folks, give up on the special teams for now. They are not going to get fixed anytime soon.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 15, 2008

A little snipet from one of the Louisiana papers:

"You talk about out-kick your coverage. We just didn't have anyone that could handle No. 8," North Texas coach Todd Dodge said of Holliday.

"I was just running by their players," Holliday said. "Then I looked back to see where the coverage was. I was wondering where the coverage was after I passed the first level."

There was no second level.

"I was down on my block," Scott said. "I put a block on my guy for maybe two seconds. Then I heard a lot of cheering. I looked up and he was gone. So I had to block for him for two seconds. That's nice."

Yeah, that's nice...for everyone who plays us, I suppose.

Am I wrong to remember that Dodge himself was going to pay extra attention to the special teams this season? Did he or did he not say that? I think he did.

Edited September 15, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 15, 2008

A little snipet from one of the Louisiana papers:
"You talk about out-kick your coverage. We just didn't have anyone that could handle No. 8," North Texas coach Todd Dodge said of Holliday.
"I was just running by their players," Holliday said. "Then I looked back to see where the coverage was. I was wondering where the coverage was after I passed the first level."
There was no second level.
"I was down on my block," Scott said. "I put a block on my guy for maybe two seconds. Then I heard a lot of cheering. I looked up and he was gone. So I had to block for him for two seconds. That's nice."
Yeah, that's nice...for everyone who plays us, I suppose.
Am I wrong to remember that Dodge himself was going to pay extra attention to the special teams this season? Did he or did he not say that? I think he did.

Yip, he did mention that he would.

UNT Mean Green · September 15, 2008

Anyone else think we just don't have the depth for a bunch of backups to be playing on Special Teams? ESPN mentioned Saturday night that even Fresno State (mind you a top 25 program) plays a slew of starters on their Special Teams...and I guarantee you they have a lot more depth than North Texas does in terms of quality athletes.

September 16, 2008

Anyone else think we just don't have the depth for a bunch of backups to be playing on Special Teams? ESPN mentioned Saturday night that even Fresno State (mind you a top 25 program) plays a slew of starters on their Special Teams...and I guarantee you they have a lot more depth than North Texas does in terms of quality athletes.

It isn't the lack of talent on the special teams, it's the lack of coaching. We don't need any starters getting injured playing special teams.

DallasGreen · September 16, 2008

Remember one of the other goals for this season was not to have a punt blocked. Could be that one factor in out kicking the coverag is the line staying with their blocks longer and not releasing to get downfield. That's also a reason Spencer is kicking so well is that he has a ton of time to get it off. There has to be a happy medium here. To me a bigger problem is the lack of distance on kick offs. If we can't kick it deeper than the 15 wouldn't it be better to squibb it?

UNT Mean Green · September 16, 2008

It isn't the lack of talent on the special teams, it's the lack of coaching. We don't need any starters getting injured playing special teams.

So when Holliday is quoted saying, "I was just running by their players, Then I looked back to see where the coverage was. I was wondering where the coverage was after I passed the first level." That is a coaching problem, not a talent problem? :glare:

September 16, 2008

So when Holliday is quoted saying, "I was just running by their players, Then I looked back to see where the coverage was. I was wondering where the coverage was after I passed the first level." That is a coaching problem, not a talent problem?

Yes, I think that it is. The talent involved is speed and strength. We have enough players with those attributes. Coaching embracers coverage responsibility, the ability to shed blockers, being able to tackle in the open field, the angle of pursuit, and desire (the willingness to sacrifice your body).

No disrespect to Holliday, who is one of the fastest football players in the country, but there is no one that can't be contained the vast majority of the time. To make my point on coaching, you quoted "....I was wondering where the coverage was after I passed the first level." Why was there no other coverage? Where was the containment blockers? The protection blocker? The punter? Was it lack of talent that did not put them anywhere in his vicinity?

Just a few years ago we had one of the best special teams players in my memory. (Of course, I'm getting old and my memory's not what it once was). Phillip Graves was usually the first one down on kickoffs and punts. He sacrificed his body to break up the blocking wedge, which he usually did, and often made the tackle as well. He would be our fifth/sixth leading tackler playing primarily on special teams.

Special teams takes dedication and being properly coached. We have some speedy defensive backs and linebackers who are adept at tackling in the open field. Yet, we are dead last in the nation on punt return yardage given up.

JesseMartin · September 16, 2008

Replying to a bunch of you at once:

Remember, Cobbs and Quinn were badasses on Special Teams.

UNT Mean Green · September 16, 2008

Yes, I think that it is. The talent involved is speed and strength. We have enough players with those attributes. Coaching embracers coverage responsibility, the ability to shed blockers, being able to tackle in the open field, the angle of pursuit, and desire (the willingness to sacrifice your body).
No disrespect to Holliday, who is one of the fastest football players in the country, but there is no one that can't be contained the vast majority of the time. To make my point on coaching, you quoted "....I was wondering where the coverage was after I passed the first level." Why was there no other coverage? Where was the containment blockers? The protection blocker? The punter? Was it lack of talent that did not put them anywhere in his vicinity?
Just a few years ago we had one of the best special teams players in my memory. (Of course, I'm getting old and my memory's not what it once was). Phillip Graves was usually the first one down on kickoffs and punts. He sacrificed his body to break up the blocking wedge, which he usually did, and often made the tackle as well. He would be our fifth/sixth leading tackler playing primarily on special teams.
Special teams takes dedication and being properly coached. We have some speedy defensive backs and linebackers who are adept at tackling in the open field. Yet, we are dead last in the nation on punt return yardage given up.

The coach does not cover punts, return kicks, punt, or kickoff. The players have to execute when they are on the field, and coaches put them in the best position possible to succeed.

To answer your question where was the contain players and the personal protector on the punt unit against LSU? They were eating Holliday's dust because they WEREN'T FAST ENOUGH TO TACKLE HIM.

September 17, 2008

The coach does not cover punts, return kicks, punt, or kickoff. The players have to execute when they are on the field, and coaches put them in the best position possible to succeed.
To answer your question where was the contain players and the personal protector on the punt unit against LSU? They were eating Holliday's dust because they WEREN'T FAST ENOUGH TO TACKLE HIM.

Maybe they are executing the way that they've been taught. Holliday should return every punt for a touchdown if the criteria is someone has to be as fast as he is to tackle him. I dare say that we have more speed on this squad than any previous team.

JesseMartin · September 17, 2008

Yeah, and keep in mind...you're coming TOWARDS them, not CHASING them. At least at first...

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 17, 2008

The coach does not cover punts, return kicks, punt, or kickoff. The players have to execute when they are on the field, and coaches put them in the best position possible to succeed.

I suppose you didn't really see a need to make a change in terms of the DC last year either? Because the argument you are using for this applies to our defense last year. You really think this has nothing to do with coaching?

FirefightnRick · September 17, 2008

LSU Kick and Punt return averages:

Against Appalachian State: Kick returns=19.5 yards per return. Punt returns=13.3 yards per return.

Against North Texas: Kick returns= 27.5 yards per return. Punt returns= 40.8 yards per return.

Rick

Edited September 17, 2008 by FirefightnRick

foutsrouts · September 17, 2008

LSU Kick and Punt return averages:
Against Appalachian State: Kick returns=19.5 yards per return. Punt returns=13.3 yards per return.
Against North Texas: Kick returns= 27.5 yards per return. Punt returns= 40.8 yards per return.
Rick

I guess that means we need to start competing against "1AA" teams for recruits, or we need to start competing against "1AA" teams for special teams coaches instead of getting our coaches straight out of high school. I wonder which direction we should go?

UNT Mean Green · September 17, 2008

I suppose you didn't really see a need to make a change in terms of the DC last year either? Because the argument you are using for this applies to our defense last year. You really think this has nothing to do with coaching?

What makes you jump to this conclusion? The fact that you assume I didn't see a need to make a change at Defensive Coordinator following last season 1) has nothing to do with this topic, and 2) is very far from the truth. This discussion has nothing to do with last year's defense...nothing. It is in regards to the special teams this year. What was mentioned was Holliday's quote following the game. You and GrayEagleOne must be under the impression that North Texas is a team loaded with big, strong, fast athletes that given the proper coaching can do anything you want them to on the field (ie tackle Holliday on punt coverage, be on top of the returner as soon as he catches it, etc). My point was strictly that even if the punt team was in the proper position to make a play on Holliday last Saturday night, the lack of speed/athleticism of those covering was not even close to the abilities of LSU's punt return team, and in particilar their return man; and the lack of those attributes led to some big plays in LSU's return game.

Again, this has nothing to do with the defensive coordinator piece from last season, but nice try.

SCREAMING EAGLE-66 · September 17, 2008

"I was just running by their players," Holliday said. "Then I looked back to see where the coverage was. I was wondering where the coverage was after I passed the first level."
There was no second level.
"I was down on my block," Scott said. "I put a block on my guy for maybe two seconds. Then I heard a lot of cheering. I looked up and he was gone. So I had to block for him for two seconds. That's nice."
Yeah, that's nice...for everyone who plays us, I suppose.

.

---I wasn't there and haven't seen it but would sounds like our coverage went in in a straight line and not staggered as coverage should be. Some players should be coached and required to slow down and drop back so there would several levels of defenders and not just one line to avoid. If that is true... then it is bad coaching... either in instructions or in selecting players to follow directions. Holliday's comment and the fact that blockers only had to hold for a second or two indicates that only a single line existed. .

Edited September 17, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

saysojoe · September 17, 2008

Did anyone on here watch the Notre Dame game this weekend. The Irish had top notch coverage all day. I believe 2 fumble recoveries. I was impressed with the spirit of their special teams. The 2 gunners run like man men down the field. The one little gunner is a " FORMER WALK-ON" looks like "RUDY" yes I said Rudy.....he earned his scholy for his dedication to special teams play. Thats all he does!!! The whole team luvs him for it.

I believe Dodge has players like that on our sideline. We have several walk-ons " Squier, Baine, Deheck to name a few that are itching to get on the field of play to show what they can do. Its time to make MEAN GREEN special teams a "Privilege". If the scholies are not up for the challenge get off the field and let some the "Blue Collar Boys" go get some.

chrisfisher · September 17, 2008

What makes you jump to this conclusion? The fact that you assume I didn't see a need to make a change at Defensive Coordinator following last season 1) has nothing to do with this topic, and 2) is very far from the truth. This discussion has nothing to do with last year's defense...nothing. It is in regards to the special teams this year. What was mentioned was Holliday's quote following the game. You and GrayEagleOne must be under the impression that North Texas is a team loaded with big, strong, fast athletes that given the proper coaching can do anything you want them to on the field (ie tackle Holliday on punt coverage, be on top of the returner as soon as he catches it, etc). My point was strictly that even if the punt team was in the proper position to make a play on Holliday last Saturday night, the lack of speed/athleticism of those covering was not even close to the abilities of LSU's punt return team, and in particilar their return man; and the lack of those attributes led to some big plays in LSU's return game.
Again, this has nothing to do with the defensive coordinator piece from last season, but nice try.

I'm not sure that I buy the argument that this 1 man was completely unstoppable.

UNT Mean Green · September 17, 2008

.
---I wasn't there and haven't seen it but would sounds like our coverage went in in a straight line and not staggered as coverage should be. Some players should be coached and required to slow down and drop back so there would several levels of defenders and not just one line to avoid. If that is true... then it is bad coaching... either in instructions or in selecting players to follow directions. Holliday's comment and the fact that blockers only had to hold for a second or two indicates that only a single line existed. .

I would agree with you that would be bad coaching IF the above mentioned actually happened. However, it did not. There were levels of the coverage and players were getting to their 'landmarks' in fanning the field. They had a tape of the game on last night on one of the college sports channels FYI.

Monkeypox · September 18, 2008

I like how it's become an "either/or" argument somehow.

We have NEITHER the talent depth NOR the quality coaching on special teams.

Yes, our team has more speed than it's had in the past, and it's deeper, but it still doesn't extend into the vast majority of our players, ESPECIALLY when compared to the likes of LSU.

COACHING'S responsibility is to make up for the lack of depth with strategy and personnel decisions. As Jesse pointed out, Cobbs and Quinn both played ST for us, and were very good at it. By saying that we don't need to have our starters out there playing ST in case they get hurt, you recognize the large talent gap between them and backups/ST players.

Our Special Teams suck, and it's both a coaching and personnel issue.

jperg2 · September 18, 2008

.
---I wasn't there and haven't seen it but would sounds like our coverage went in in a straight line and not staggered as coverage should be. Some players should be coached and required to slow down and drop back so there would several levels of defenders and not just one line to avoid. If that is true... then it is bad coaching... either in instructions or in selecting players to follow directions. Holliday's comment and the fact that blockers only had to hold for a second or two indicates that only a single line existed. .

If you really want to see the coverage on the punt returned for a touchdown, check out this "highlight" video:

http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-US&brand=...mp;fg=/cfb/team

Mean Green 93-98 · September 18, 2008

If you really want to see the coverage on the punt returned for a touchdown, check out this "highlight" video:
http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-US&brand=...mp;fg=/cfb/team

For some reason, your link did not work for me, but I found it on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM6iiVUEvkY

UNT MG, you must have seen entirely different footage than I see. There is one level of coverage. Holliday only had to follow one block, and there was nobody else to beat.