Awwww...vince Young Is Sad

[forevereagle]

It is okay for a bad quarterback to make the playoffs - the NFL has parity now.

Yeah, Trent Dilfer won a Super bowl.

[Quoner]

Don't worry - everything is fine.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...ng-update_N.htm

Unless people boo Vince again or he can't win back the job from Old Man Collins (the guy who first made quitting cool.)

[LongJim]

I'm just theorizing, but great college athletes are often coddled. They usually don't get coddled long in the pros, whatever their sport. VY has always struck me as someone who is very competitive, and when he 'fell down and got a boo-boo' his mom and sisters were the ones there to spray Bactine. I don't believe he ever had what he lacked--which is a father figure, to teach him a proper reaction to adversity. How to be a man. He hasn't learned that because he had no good role models to get it from until he joined organized sports. Just speculating, though.

Having said that--he needs to get it together quick, or he will go down in flames. IMO, he has been a disappointment as a pro so far.

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

Don't worry - everything is fine.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...ng-update_N.htm

Unless people boo Vince again or he can't win back the job from Old Man Collins (the guy who first made quitting cool.)

I haven't read any of this thread, but I read the above article on ESPN.com. It sounds like his mom is just a huge drama queen and is stirring the pot unnecessarily.

[emmitt01]

I like the way you dog someone in emotional distress, though. That must come in real handy in your profession. What is it you do again? oh yeah, protect and serve.

Congratulations. You just went from "person who I disagree with over something/someone as trivial as Vince Young" to "someone I haven't the respect for to even continue this conversation." Just the same, if ever you are robbed or in need of medical attention I'll still come running at break neck speed...because I am somehow able to separate my professional duty from my childish loyalty to a UT legend.

[emmitt01]

And while we're on the subject of VY versus a player who is tragically dead and led our alma mater to a bowl win:

Drew's career QB rating at NT- 84.65

VY's NFL career QB rating- 61.13

Drew's TD to INT ratio- 1/1.625 (for every 1 TD he threw 1.625 picks)

VY's TD to INT ratio- 1/3.31 (Do I really need to say it?)

I'm not sayin'....I'm just sayin'

[EagleD]

Once again, I'm not trying to use Drew as shock value, I just find a similarity in his COLLEGE numbers compared to Vince's.

I wonder if you get whiplash changing directions from defending Drew to bashing Vince using the same argument for both.

I don't have a problem with valid criticism of Vince's on field productivity (or lack thereof), I just think you are overlooking VY's intangibles, plus you have yet to address his rushing stats. Let's just look at that shall we? If I read this correctly he averages over 5 yards every time he takes off on a run. Hell, if I'm the OC for Tennessee I'd create a scheme to take advantage of this, much like UT did.

Again, It's no surprise you started this thread, as you have an unnatural obsession with dogging him every chance you get. Did you read the CNN article. He sounded quite up front about his problems dealing with booing. He could have given the standard "Bull Durham" answers, but he's a quality human being and you have to take cheap shots at him whenever the opportunity arises.

He has lackluster passing stats. We get it. He also brings with him the ability to run like the wind and unify a team. He makes up for his lack of passing with other abilities. But no matter what I say, you'll never give him any credit. He was rookie of the year, but that does not impress you. He was a QB who took his team to the playoffs, but that doesn't matter, huh? He damn near single handedly drove his team down the field at the end of a game to win a collegiate national championship, but that's small potatoes, I guess.

No, his overprotective mom worries about his well being and calls his coach and you can't wait to jump all over him and attack him. It's petty and you know it.

Edited September 12, 2008 by EagleD

[JesseMartin]

1) Drew vs. Vince re: leadership:

The qualities of a true leader transcend playing level, profession, etc. Being more well known (and let's face it, alive) doesn't make one more or less of a leader.

2) QBs as leaders

Coaches and QBs get all the credit for wins and blame for losses from many outlets (media, public, etc) in the sports world. This makes both de facto leaders of the team, regardless of how successfully they fit this role.

[Quoner]

Once again, I'm not trying to use Drew as shock value, I just find a similarity in his COLLEGE numbers compared to Vince's.

I wonder if you get whiplash changing directions from defending Drew to bashing Vince using the same argument for both.

I don't have a problem with valid criticism of Vince's on field productivity (or lack thereof), I just think you are overlooking VY's intangibles, plus you have yet to address his rushing stats. Let's just look at that shall we? If I read this correctly he averages over 5 yards every time he takes off on a run. Hell, if I'm the OC for Tennessee I'd create a scheme to take advantage of this, much like UT did.

Again, It's no surprise you started this thread, as you have an unnatural obsession with dogging him every chance you get. Did you read the CNN article. He sounded quite up front about his problems dealing with booing. He could have given the standard "Bull Durham" answers, but he's a quality human being and you have to take cheap shots at him whenever the opportunity arises.

He has lackluster passing stats. We get it. He also brings with him the ability to run like the wind and unify a team. He makes up for his lack of passing with other abilities. But no matter what I say, you'll never give him any credit. He was rookie of the year, but that does not impress you. He was a QB who took his team to the playoffs, but that doesn't matter, huh? He damn near single handedly drove his team down the field at the end of a game to win a collegiate national championship, but that's small potatoes, I guess.

No, his overprotective mom worries about his well being and calls his coach and you can't wait to jump all over him and attack him. It's petty and you know it.

EagleD - I know you and Emmitt are having a cock-off over this and I am on the edge of it, but I think you're just as guilty of stat-misuse as Emmitt. This isn't a Texas thing for me (I'd have to sleep on the couch), but VY just isn't that good. It's really okay.

Since you site his stats - let's look at the numbers:

Passing - I won't even address this. You know he places in a retardedly simple defense and only makes safe throws. He still turns the ball over a ton and generally has the competence level of a Joey Harrington on a good day (Joey is actually a higher-rated QB.)

Rushing - aka, he's not in college anymore.

Vince carries 5-6 times a game and averages around 30 yards as part of what was one of the best rushing offenses in football. In theory, if we was a decent QB, he could do a lot with play action and going down field. He also ran much less last year and for about 4.2 ypc, so if we are making wacky conclusions, Vince using less of his intangibles meant more victories. In fact, Vince throwing fewer TDs led to more victories. Of course, if you look at the rest of the roster, you might also think they made up the difference.

VY rushed for 395 yards last year on that 4.2 ypc average. He was also sacked 25 times. If the NFL added this deduction to his rushing stats like college does, his intangible feet created 238 yards on 118 carries. I admit its a mistake to pin all of the sacks on him, but for comparison, the Arizona Cardinals only allowed their slow, statue-esque QBs to be sacked 24 times all year.

In conclusion, his lack-luster passing stats are not compensated for by his legs. That is a myth. If he could really pass effectively like he could in college, his legs would be a huge asset. Good teams had no trouble stopping him until his arm was worth fearing. Then you started seeing the crazy, unforgettable scrambles against teams USC, Kansas, and OSU.

Please stop saying that VY is the reason that team succeeded. If the Titans had a real QB last year, they could have been the 2006 Chicago Bears and gone 13-3. Did the QB unify that team?

I love you, but your cheerleader arguments just don't hold up.

[EagleD]

EagleD - I know you and Emmitt are having a cock-off over this and I am on the edge of it, but I think you're just as guilty of stat-misuse as Emmitt. This isn't a Texas thing for me (I'd have to sleep on the couch), but VY just isn't that good. It's really okay.

Since you site his stats - let's look at the numbers:

Passing - I won't even address this. You know he places in a retardedly simple defense and only makes safe throws. He still turns the ball over a ton and generally has the competence level of a Joey Harrington on a good day (Joey is actually a higher-rated QB.)

Rushing - aka, he's not in college anymore.

Vince carries 5-6 times a game and averages around 30 yards as part of what was one of the best rushing offenses in football. In theory, if we was a decent QB, he could do a lot with play action and going down field. He also ran much less last year and for about 4.2 ypc, so if we are making wacky conclusions, Vince using less of his intangibles meant more victories. In fact, Vince throwing fewer TDs led to more victories. Of course, if you look at the rest of the roster, you might also think they made up the difference.

VY rushed for 395 yards last year on that 4.2 ypc average. He was also sacked 25 times. If the NFL added this deduction to his rushing stats like college does, his intangible feet created 238 yards on 118 carries. I admit its a mistake to pin all of the sacks on him, but for comparison, the Arizona Cardinals only allowed their slow, statue-esque QBs to be sacked 24 times all year.

In conclusion, his lack-luster passing stats are not compensated for by his legs. That is a myth. If he could really pass effectively like he could in college, his legs would be a huge asset. Good teams had no trouble stopping him until his arm was worth fearing. Then you started seeing the crazy, unforgettable scrambles against teams USC, Kansas, and OSU.

Please stop saying that VY is the reason that team succeeded. If the Titans had a real QB last year, they could have been the 2006 Chicago Bears and gone 13-3. Did the QB unify that team?

I love you, but your cheerleader arguments just don't hold up.

And that's the reasoned argument I'm looking for. I'm OK with this logic. And you did it w/o saying he cries into his hankie (or Mr. Hankie the Christmas pooh), or calling him pampered or otherwise dogging what seems to be a stand up man who is down on himself. Some people just like to kick a man when he's down.

For all the Naysers, let's make a deal. If the Titans win a playoff game and Vince has QB'd the team most of the way, will you at least give him a little bit of love. No cockstroking, just a "Good game. He's gotten better" is all I'm looking for. In return if the Titans don't make the playoffs and Vince is at the helm most of the way, I'll say he is overrated and overpaid. Cool? If they make it to the playoffs and lose in the first round again then IT'S ON BABY!!!!!!!!! Let the mud fly! (just kidding)

Again, it's not the criticism of his on the field play, it's the bashing of him as a person that gets to me. He really seems like a class act.

Hey I could be wrong. I was a big believer in Cedric Bensen. Look how that worked out for me.

[EagleD]

I love you, but your cheerleader arguments just don't hold up.

You just love me for my doggy style.

[Quoner]

You just love me for my doggy style.

Not to mention that you stuck with TY regardless of content or quality.

and to think, I was almost going to be in Austin this weekend....think of the sexy times that could have been had...

[Quoner]

And that's the reasoned argument I'm looking for. I'm OK with this logic. And you did it w/o saying he cries into his hankie (or Mr. Hankie the Christmas pooh), or calling him pampered or otherwise dogging what seems to be a stand up man who is down on himself. Some people just like to kick a man when he's down.

For all the Naysers, let's make a deal. If the Titans win a playoff game and Vince has QB'd the team most of the way, will you at least give him a little bit of love. No cockstroking, just a "Good game. He's gotten better" is all I'm looking for. In return if the Titans don't make the playoffs and Vince is at the helm most of the way, I'll say he is overrated and overpaid. Cool? If they make it to the playoffs and lose in the first round again then IT'S ON BABY!!!!!!!!! Let the mud fly! (just kidding)

Again, it's not the criticism of his on the field play, it's the bashing of him as a person that gets to me. He really seems like a class act.

Hey I could be wrong. I was a big believer in Cedric Bensen. Look how that worked out for me.

I will give no credit no matter what happens until Kige Ramsey stops supporting the Titans.

[emmitt01]

I'm not alone in my thoughts:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/story/903824.html

As to the deal concerning his quarterbacking the Titans and their making the playoffs, no dice. But I'll make a counter proposal. If he is the quarterback most of the way, they make the playoffs, and it isn't the job of the stingy defense to make up for VY's turnovers then I'll budge. If he throws only twice per game, completes those passes, and runs for a gazillion touchdowns then I'll give him credit where credit is due. I just don't think that will come to pass (pun intended).

As to picking on poor lil' VY...give it a rest. We say time after time after time on this board about our own players "if they can't handle criticism they don't need to be playing college ball." Well, Vince Young is an NFL quarterback...a heaping helping of the boo birds is par for the course when a team invests such a grand sum of money in you and turns over the keys to the car. I have thought since his days in Austin that without the constant "happy endings" he received from Mack Brown and the orange bloods (be they actual UT alums/students or just those who love to defend all things Longhorn) that he would break and be exposed for what he is: A phenomenal athlete who was able to run around college level talent but couldn't lead an NFL team to greatness. If that's unfair or makes me a meany pants then so be it.

[EagleD]

Whatever dude. I tried an olive branch.

[Green Mean]

He's still young and this is only his third year. He still has plenty of time to figure things out.

[Quoner]

He's still young and this is only his third year. He still has plenty of time to figure things out.

Alex Smith and Matt Leinart agree!

[emmitt01]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3586215

[JayDub]

I will give no credit no matter what happens until Kige Ramsey stops supporting the Titans.

Has that guy become self-aware, yet?

Oh, and just to help really derail this charlie-foxtrot of a thread...here's some Erin Andrews for ya...

[Quoner]

Has that guy become self-aware, yet?

In short - no: http://deadspin.com/5040073/inside-kige-ra...dspin-exclusive

[Quoner]

Apparently VY tried to quit during last year's playoffs too: http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/14/...s-playoff-game/