Awwww...vince Young Is Sad

[emmitt01]

Can someone get this man some Vagisil please?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3579504

[Quoner]

Can someone get this man some Vagisil please?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3579504

Possible TY theory I'm floating out there: each major Big 12 Texas school has it's own psychology.

A&M is bat-shit crazy loyal, Tech feels disrespected, Baylor enjoys being the lovable loser and Texas loves to have its collective cock stroked. This psychology also expands to the fan bases, but that's not the point.

This seems to work for their players who make the NFL as well (thinking high-profile.)

You've seen several big Texas players fall apart under the spotlight (Simms, VY, Ricky, Roy Williams, etc.) and a few have semi-remade themselves. Is it because they graduate from the happy-go-reach-around atmosphere that Austin provides and face criticism and consequences for their actions?

I'm not sure how much there is to this, but I thought I'd just float it here and see what happens.

[Eagle1855]

Texas is super protective of it's athletes and their egos. They don't allow them to talk to the media if they feel they'll be given anything other than stroke-fest softball pitches. Maybe life is harder outside that bubble. OR, maybe VY's just going through some shit and has to do it on a national stage.

Either way, its a great opportunity to make jokes.

[KingDL1]

the happy-go-reach-around atmosphere

Wow, never hear that one before.

You are probably right though.

[EagleD]

You've seen several big Texas players fall apart under the spotlight (Simms, VY, Ricky, Roy Williams, etc.) and a few have semi-remade themselves. Is it because they graduate from the happy-go-reach-around atmosphere that Austin provides and face criticism and consequences for their actions?

How have Roy Williams or Simms fallen apart under the spotlight? Simms gave his body, literally gave part of his body (gallbladder) for football. Before he did that he lead the Bucs to the playoffs. Roy Williams and a host of other Texas Longhorns, 22 at last count,are doing quite well in the NFL.

It's fair to criticize Ricky Williams (who seems to have turned things around) or Cedrick Bensen (who has just made some poor choices) but the vast majority of Longhorns in the NFL behave and play quite well.

2 other points of note. 1. It's no surprise this thread was started by Emmitt who has an unnatural hatred for VY. I'm sorry your favorite QB is imprisoned for making animals tear each other from limb to limb. VY might be psychologically fragile, but at least he's not a felon. BTW, VY has made good on his promise to come back to school and try to get his degree.

2. Mack Brown does have his players talk to the media. I don't remember the name of the player who recently got busted for DWI, but Mack made him take his lumps in front of the media. Remember Ramonce Taylor? Mack could have coddled him like many coaches would have done with a premiere talent, but instead he was booted off the team.

I'm not trying to be a Mack Brown apologist, and there are valid criticisms of him, (I have quite a few) but these aren't them.

[emmitt01]

1. It's no surprise this thread was started by Emmitt who has an unnatural hatred for VY. I'm sorry your favorite QB is imprisoned for making animals tear each other from limb to limb. VY might be psychologically fragile, but at least he's not a felon. BTW, VY has made good on his promise to come back to school and try to get his degree.

Wow...nothing screams lack of credibility like an overt straw man argument. I am going to assume you're referring to Michael Vick...but then I'm gonna have to get off the short bus with you. Never have I claimed to be a big Michael Vick fan, certainly never have I said he was my "favorite quarterback." I'll say up front that I think I think VY is a sham of a quarterback (what's that TD to INT ratio again?) and that I he will always be what he is...a great college QB who cannot/will not translate to the NFL.

Here's a suggestion. Next time you feel the need to attack me personally...don't. It will save you from looking foolish and will save me from wasting my time responding to tripe.

[EagleD]

Wow...nothing screams lack of credibility like an overt straw man argument. I am going to assume you're referring to Michael Vick...but then I'm gonna have to get off the short bus with you. Never have I claimed to be a big Michael Vick fan, certainly never have I said he was my "favorite quarterback." I'll say up front that I think I think VY is a sham of a quarterback (what's that TD to INT ratio again?) and that I he will always be what he is...a great college QB who cannot/will not translate to the NFL.

Here's a suggestion. Next time you feel the need to attack me personally...don't. It will save you from looking foolish and will save me from wasting my time responding to tripe.

My apologies for saying Vick is your favorite QB. That was over the line. To the best of my recollection you've never said that. I seem to remember you constantly praising Vick (pre-scandal) and constantly hammering Young. I remember a particular post you had about the first time VY tries to run a DB will cold cock him out of the game, and that he couldn't hold a candle to Vick. If I can research the threads I'll provide a link later. But I definitely remember posts of that nature.

Once again it's no surprise this thread was started by you. You just admitted you think VY's a sham. Any chance you get to slam him, you will. Am I wrong? It's not a personal attack, it's an observation you just confirmed.

[emmitt01]

My apologies for saying Vick is your favorite QB. That was over the line. To the best of my recollection you've never said that. I seem to remember you constantly praising Vick (pre-scandal) and constantly hammering Young. I remember a particular post you had about the first time VY tries to run a DB will cold cock him out of the game, and that he couldn't hold a candle to Vick. If I can research the threads I'll provide a link later. But I definitely remember posts of that nature.

Once again it's no surprise this thread was started by you. You just admitted you think VY's a sham. Any chance you get to slam him, you will. Am I wrong? It's not a personal attack, it's an observation you just confirmed.

Yep...everything you say is true. I do think that Michael Vick is the QB that VY will never be and should have never been compared to. I do think that VY is a sham. And I do think that it is no surprise that when he couldn't hack it in the NFL and his home fans booed him he is now whining to the media...through his mother no less.

[EagleD]

Yep...everything you say is true. I do think that Michael Vick is the QB that VY will never be and should have never been compared to. I do think that VY is a sham. And I do think that it is no surprise that when he couldn't hack it in the NFL and his home fans booed him he is now whining to the media...through his mother no less.

First, VY is not whining to the media. He's not talking to the media. His mother is concerned about her sons well being and is perhaps being overprotective. If any spokesperson in this story deserves to be criticized, it's his agent, who is playing everything off like it's no big deal and Vince was watching football with friends and eating chicken wings. Agents are lying scumbags.

Second, we don't know that his NFL career is over. Didn't he lead his team to the playoffs last year? Per Wikipedia: QB Vince Young entered this game as the youngest quarterback to ever start a playoff game in franchise history (24 years and 233 days).

Plain and simple Vince is having a hard time coping with the pressures of being a pro QB and receiving criticism he doesn't normally get. At least he's not out being a thug like so many other athletes when they can't handle the pressure ala Pac Man Jones, or self medicating ala Ricky Williams. His reaction seems quite genuine to me and you seem quite callous for dogging him. You can criticize his style of play, and that seems valid, but when you dog the man for just being down on himself, it sounds like you want to see a train wreck. I don't care how much you disapprove of his football skills, VY has been nothing but a class act on and off the field.

[JesseMartin]

I think VY is a great guy, but I also agree that this situation is likely a product of the UT atmosphere, as well as his crazy mom. If pro football isn't what he expected, he's set himself up for any number of other things (again, unlike the "thugs").

And Ricky Williams...the man specifically stated that he likes smoking weed more than he likes playing football. He's had people push him back into the sport, and his performance since has been lacksadaisical at best. When he first got drafted, I was excited to see what he could do, especially since he seemed so excited...it was contagious. Since then...I couldn't care less.

Maybe Vince Young just needs a head shaped...I dunno...less weird-ish.

[UNT_92_Fan]

I have no real contribution to this thread... this just makes me laugh uncontrollably

[emmitt01]

First, VY is not whining to the media. He's not talking to the media. His mother is concerned about her sons well being and is perhaps being overprotective. If any spokesperson in this story deserves to be criticized, it's his agent, who is playing everything off like it's no big deal and Vince was watching football with friends and eating chicken wings. Agents are lying scumbags.

Second, we don't know that his NFL career is over. Didn't he lead his team to the playoffs last year? Per Wikipedia: QB Vince Young entered this game as the youngest quarterback to ever start a playoff game in franchise history (24 years and 233 days).

Plain and simple Vince is having a hard time coping with the pressures of being a pro QB and receiving criticism he doesn't normally get. At least he's not out being a thug like so many other athletes when they can't handle the pressure ala Pac Man Jones, or self medicating ala Ricky Williams. His reaction seems quite genuine to me and you seem quite callous for dogging him. You can criticize his style of play, and that seems valid, but when you dog the man for just being down on himself, it sounds like you want to see a train wreck. I don't care how much you disapprove of his football skills, VY has been nothing but a class act on and off the field.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether he "led" his team to the playoffs. When you throw more INT's than TD's you're not exactly "leading" your team anywhere but back to sideline so that your defense can take the field. Speaking of the Titans defense, if anyone "led" them to the playoffs it was those guys.

As to whether I am callous or not, again I'll have to disagree. He has his panties in a wad because the home fans booed him for...gasp...poor play. He had to have known that in the NFL where you are paid to play (above the table that is) there would be criticism. If he didn't and this is somehow a big surprise to him then his problems are deeper than any of us may ever know.

As to whether he is a "thug" I'll be the first to admit that he is not. Nor is he an NFL caliber QB.

[JesseMartin]

I have no real contribution to this thread... this just makes me laugh uncontrollably

Why do you even have that? Are you sure it doesn't make you "man-moist"?

[KRAM1]

So, who the heck gives a crap about either VY or MV????? If VY is "hurt" because of the booing, get over it! You get paid a ton of $$$$ to play a game...buckle up Mr. Fragile Ego and play the game. He plays for Tennessee where they have a bunch of "who's) surrounding him. He has all the talent in the world. Get over it and play the GAME.

But, I say again...who cares?

[EagleD]

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether he "led" his team to the playoffs. When you throw more INT's than TD's you're not exactly "leading" your team anywhere but back to sideline so that your defense can take the field. Speaking of the Titans defense, if anyone "led" them to the playoffs it was those guys.

As to whether I am callous or not, again I'll have to disagree. He has his panties in a wad because the home fans booed him for...gasp...poor play. He had to have known that in the NFL where you are paid to play (above the table that is) there would be criticism. If he didn't and this is somehow a big surprise to him then his problems are deeper than any of us may ever know.

As to whether he is a "thug" I'll be the first to admit that he is not. Nor is he an NFL caliber QB.

By your definition Andrew Smith was not a leader for us. Here are his stats:

Nice innuendo about Texas paying their players. Can you back that up with some proof?

And Vince got criticized plenty at Texas before he helped win it all. But coaches and players all agree that when the pressure was getting to them, he kept them all loose and allowed the team and coaches to stay focused. That is a leader in my book.

I make no bones about it. I like Vince Young. I've met him and I think he's a wonderful guy, and terrific athlete. If the past is any indication, he'll silence his critics.

[Green P1]

By your definition Andrew Smith was not a leader for us. Here are his stats:

Nice innuendo about Texas paying their players. Can you back that up with some proof?

And Vince got criticized plenty at Texas before he helped win it all. But coaches and players all agree that when the pressure was getting to them, he kept them all loose and allowed the team and coaches to stay focused. That is a leader in my book.

I make no bones about it. I like Vince Young. I've met him and I think he's a wonderful guy, and terrific athlete. If the past is any indication, he'll silence his critics.

Really classy throwing a dead student athlete's stats out there for shock value. Being a leader on a mediocre collegiate team and being one on a NFL team is exactly the same right?

I don't know your story as it relates to how you've delvolped such an affection for VY and his game, but it has clouded your judgment of him. I'm not commenting on the off the field rumors, but his play on the field has been atrocious. He's the most inaccurate passer in the NFL, and as I predicted(given I predict failure for all UT athletes) his running has not translated to the NFL level either. Being the QB of a team that makes the playoffs does not in fact make you the leader of that team. I suppose you would argue that Q-Cat was the fearless leader of the Cowboys in 03.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Green P1

[Green Mean]

How the heck did Vince Young go from being the ewber William Wallace to what he is today? Man I still say the guy has talent and he has that "IT" factor in my opinion. They just need to assemble a team where he can most utilize his talents. He needs offensive weapons and most of all he needs a few playmakers. Oh and despite his supposed bad play he is 18-11 as a starter...if you can produce that record and still be mediocre I am all for it. Give him some good talent around him and some playmakers then I think he is an above average quarterback in my opinion.

[EagleD]

Really classy throwing a dead student athlete's stats out there for shock value. Being a leader on a mediocre collegiate team and being one on a NFL team is exactly the same right?

I don't know your story as it relates to how you've delvolped such an affection for VY and his game, but it has clouded your judgment of him. I'm not commenting on the off the field rumors, but his play on the field has been atrocious. He's the most inaccurate passer in the NFL, and as I predicted(given I predict failure for all UT athletes) his running has not translated to the NFL level either. Being the QB of a team that makes the playoffs does not in fact make you the leader of that team. I suppose you would argue that Q-Cat was the fearless leader of the Cowboys in 03.

The mention of Drew was not meant for shock value. I truly believe he was the leader of that team and I miss him dearly. The parallels between Drew and Vince are similar, though. They both had great defenses and both had mediocre passing stats. I used his stats only to prove Emmit's theory false. You can be a leader and still have sub-par stats. You can also have incredible stats and be a detriment to your team ala Terrell Owens.

Nice critique of VY's on-field performance. I can't argue. Is he really the most inaccurate passer in the NFL? I'm not doubting you, I'm just too lazy to look up the stats myself. I just think Vince is a winner and he will turn it around.

No real comment on Q-Cat here. I just hope he straightens out his life.

[Quoner]

The mention of Drew was not meant for shock value. I truly believe he was the leader of that team and I miss him dearly. The parallels between Drew and Vince are similar, though. They both had great defenses and both had mediocre passing stats. I used his stats only to prove Emmit's theory false. You can be a leader and still have sub-par stats. You can also have incredible stats and be a detriment to your team ala Terrell Owens.

Nice critique of VY's on-field performance. I can't argue. Is he really the most inaccurate passer in the NFL? I'm not doubting you, I'm just too lazy to look up the stats myself. I just think Vince is a winner and he will turn it around.

No real comment on Q-Cat here. I just hope he straightens out his life.

What's so wrong with VY being a college QB? Think those Husker teams in the 90s got their panties in a wad when some of their star skill players failed in the pros (or didn't make it?)

This is what I mean about the Texas-complex? If we don't love Vince, something is obviously wrong with us.

[Green Mean]

After what he did in the 2005 and 2006 Rose Bowl I dont think there were many people in this country that did not like or love Vince Young. I mean afcourse with the exception of Michigan and USC fans. Lets face it, he is not a prototypical QB but I think he can still win in the NFL. I sort of feel Michael Vick had the same problem too is that they had some decent players but did he really have any playmakers on his side? This is not an excuse for their bad play as they themselves need to improve but lets face it...you cant all of a sudden change an out of pocket QB to a typical pocket passing QB. I think thats what every dang GM in the NFL tries to do with guys like Young and Vick. If you assemble the right pieces around them then there is no reason why they cant dominate their position for their team. Again I am not trying to be a VY apologist and yes the last few days have been very wheels off for him but man I still think he has a hell of a lot of talent and has the big game it factor.

[emmitt01]

The mention of Drew was not meant for shock value. I truly believe he was the leader of that team and I miss him dearly. The parallels between Drew and Vince are similar, though. They both had great defenses and both had mediocre passing stats. I used his stats only to prove Emmit's theory false. You can be a leader and still have sub-par stats. You can also have incredible stats and be a detriment to your team ala Terrell Owens.

Nice critique of VY's on-field performance. I can't argue. Is he really the most inaccurate passer in the NFL? I'm not doubting you, I'm just too lazy to look up the stats myself. I just think Vince is a winner and he will turn it around.

No real comment on Q-Cat here. I just hope he straightens out his life.

Actually all you succeeded in doing was proving my point. Your original thesis was that he "led" his team to the playoffs. My counter was that he did not and that his defense carried him. Your bringing up Andrew Smith was a great way to prove my point. Drew was given a very limited playbook to work with and was basically told "don't lose the game for us, just manage it". He did that wonderfully. If you want to say that Drew was a leader then I will agree with you in so far as he did what the QB is supposed to do which is put your team in a position to win. Even if that means doing less to do more. The only thing VY has managed to do less of is throwing touchdowns. You can't have it both ways. Either VY is a decent quarterback (which I contend he is not) or he isn't and he really needs superior talent around him to mask his deficiencies. Anyone wanna argue that Trent Dilfer is a hall of famer? He's got a Super Bowl ring. And how did he get said ring? Yep, just like VY he allowed his defense to shut down the other team. The idea that an NFL quarterback can have more INT's than TD's and still somehow be seen as a "leader" and "asset" to his team is preposterous! I don't care how many times you've met him, whether he bought the first round of drinks, whether he autographed one of his hankies after crying into it, whatever. Being a super duper citizen doesn't make you an NFL caliber quarterback. I've never denied that he was an amazing college athlete...he's just not remotely close to the NFL quarterback many would like to make him out to be. Don't believe me though, ask the people of Tennessee.

Edited September 11, 2008 by emmitt01

[UNTLifer]

I think Vince's momma is more upset than anyone. She sees her meal ticket floating away.

[EagleD]

Actually all you succeeded in doing was proving my point. Your original thesis was that he "led" his team to the playoffs. My counter was that he did not and that his defense carried him. Your bringing up Andrew Smith was a great way to prove my point. Drew was given a very limited playbook to work with and was basically told "don't lose the game for us, just manage it". He did that wonderfully. If you want to say that Drew was a leader then I will agree with you in so far as he did what the QB is supposed to do which is put your team in a position to win. Even if that means doing less to do more. The only thing VY has managed to do less of is throwing touchdowns. You can't have it both ways. Either VY is a decent quarterback (which I contend he is not) or he isn't and he really needs superior talent around him to mask his deficiencies. Anyone wanna argue that Trent Dilfer is a hall of famer? He's got a Super Bowl ring. And how did he get said ring? Yep, just like VY he allowed his defense to shut down the other team. The idea that an NFL quarterback can have more INT's than TD's and still somehow be seen as a "leader" and "asset" to his team is preposterous! I don't care how many times you've met him, whether he bought the first round of drinks, whether he autographed one of his hankies after crying into it, whatever. Being a super duper citizen doesn't make you an NFL caliber quarterback. I've never denied that he was an amazing college athlete...he's just not remotely close to the NFL quarterback many would like to make him out to be. Don't believe me though, ask the people of Tennessee.

You can't have it both ways either, Emmit. You dog Young for the same thing you praise Smith for. Double Standard. By my calculations VY does put his team in a position to win as much as Drew did. The Titans made it to the playoffs much the same way Drew won a bowl game for us. VY was voted ROOKIE OF THE FREAKIN' YEAR!!!!!!! You keep referencing his passing stats, but he also has the weapon of running with the ball, which he does quite nicely, and is yet another way he puts his team in a position to win. You have made my point sir. He puts his team in a position to win, and they do.

So again, if your definition of a QB leader is based solely on passing stats, then you must be on record as saying Drew Smith was not a leader.

Anyone wanna argue that Trent Dilfer is a hall of famer?

Nobody's going to argue that, but if you ask his teammates I bet they'd say he was a leader of that team. Thanks again for proving my point.

I don't care how many times you've met him, whether he bought the first round of drinks, whether he autographed one of his hankies after crying into it, whatever.

I like the way you dog someone in emotional distress, though. That must come in real handy in your profession. What is it you do again? oh yeah, protect and serve.

[Quoner]

You can't have it both ways either, Emmit. You dog Young for the same thing you praise Smith for. Double Standard. By my calculations VY does put his team in a position to win as much as Drew did. The Titans made it to the playoffs much the same way Drew won a bowl game for us. VY was voted ROOKIE OF THE FREAKIN' YEAR!!!!!!! You keep referencing his passing stats, but he also has the weapon of running with the ball, which he does quite nicely, and is yet another way he puts his team in a position to win. You have made my point sir. He puts his team in a position to win, and they do.

So again, if your definition of a QB leader is based solely on passing stats, then you must be on record as saying Drew Smith was not a leader.

Nobody's going to argue that, but if you ask his teammates I bet they'd say he was a leader of that team. Thanks again for proving my point.

I like the way you dog someone in emotional distress, though. That must come in real handy in your profession. What is it you do again? oh yeah, protect and serve.

Forgive the brashness here, but Andrew would have struggled in the NFL too. It doesn't ruin his college legacy.

It is okay for a bad quarterback to make the playoffs - the NFL has parity now. It's not that big a deal. Eli Manning was the worst-rated QB for the past 5 years until he broke through last year. You could just as easily argue that the titans put Vince in a position to succeed by simplifying the playbook to the point of firing a great offensive mind in Norm Chow to keep things easy for Simple Vince. Good coaches tailor the game plan to their talent, and Fisher did a masterful job of that. VY was winning games with less than 15 pass attempts last year because running and defense gave them the best chance to win.

You know I love and I know the over-the-top approach Emmitt is taking is getting to you, but please take a deep breath and think about this for a second. This argument can not take away the National Championship warm fuzzies in Austin a few years ago. Vince failing in the NFL will never, ever make the happy go away - I promise.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Quoner

[LongJim]

Texas loves to have its collective cock stroked. This psychology also expands to the fan bases, but that's not the point.

I do not disagree.