Why Redshirt Riley Dodge?

[Smitty]

Oh, now I understand. Let me see if I'm following this avalanche of logic.

His shoulder may still be recovering from surgery, so playing college football and going across the middle to take shots from linebackers and safeties is part of his rehab.

Then take the lessons he learned this year and put them on the shelf next year while you redshirt him when he's healthy and the team is a year older and a year better and actually building on the hard lessons learned this year.

And Todd just needed help this year. But he won't need help next year, despite the fact that Casey Fitzgerald won't be back next year and you could argue that the need for Riley at wide receiver could be greater.

So play Riley while he's recovering and the team is bad, then redshirt him next year when he's healthy and the team is better. Genius.

[keith]

Play your best players regardless of classification. How many "great" players have we lost due to injury, academics, left team or whatever that barely set foot on the field because we were saving them for the future that never came? I really woud not care if we had all true freshman out there if they were the best players at their positions or the best athletes available. We only get them for such a short time anyway. Play 'em if you got 'em.

Keith

[THOR]

not still recovering from the shoulder injury, but something in the shoulder won't allow him the same range of motion/strength/whatever after the surgery. therefore, not being able to play quarterback now or ever. he doesn't have to throw to be a wide receiver.

[Cerebus]

I don't think Riley will ever redshirt.

There is no doubt Riley is being groomed to be a QB.

Even now, as he works mainly with the WR's, he is seeing snaps at QB.

[meangreen-mba]

Here is a thought. Maybe daddy/coach is looking out for the future of his son/player and possible life after UNT. If Riley is going anywhere after UNT, it will be as a slot receiver, not a QB. That may have been the plan all along. Get 4 years of running the field, some crazy stats, and boom....a possible chance at NFL stardom....something TD did not get himself. I think TD is craftier than we think...remember, he has been there himself. A star HS QB, who only got 1 yr as a star college QB because of his size.

Riley is a bit like Wes Welker in size, speed.............just a thought

[jimmyjames_99]

Play your best players regardless of classification. How many "great" players have we lost due to injury, academics, left team or whatever that barely set foot on the field because we were saving them for the future that never came? I really woud not care if we had all true freshman out there if they were the best players at their positions or the best athletes available. We only get them for such a short time anyway. Play 'em if you got 'em.

Keith

What he said.

[KRAM1]

I like the idea of "winning now" and playing your best players...so that means we win 7 games this year because Riley plays! Great, count me in! Folks, it "ain't like basketball" where one great player can take you to the "promised land" of year in year out bowl games and conference championships.

The one thing I agree with, and think I mentioned in my previous post on this subject, I believe Coach Dodge knows what he is doing. So, I leave it in his very capable hands.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[Smitty]

Folks, it "ain't like basketball" where one great player can take you to the "promised land" of year in year out bowl games and conference championships.

I agree. I just don't think Riley translates to a winning season this year. With the status of the offensive and defensive lines, I don't think he adds enough spark for even one or two more wins this year than the team would have achieved without him. Frankly, Gilmore's return has a far better chance of adding wins than Riley does.

But let's say Riley does mean an extra win this year. Let's say his presence means two more wins this year. Are you willing to trade an entire season of a veteran Riley Dodge at quarterback for two wins in a losing season this year? Because IF North Texas is grooming Riley Dodge to be this team's quarterback, then that's the trade UNT has made. You're giving up a full season of veteran quarterback play when he would have been at the peak of his game.

This program was lined up for four years of talented upper-classman play at QB, two from Vizza and two from Riley, starting next year. Two years of Vizza as junior and senior with Riley as one of his wide receivers, then turn the offense over to Riley for his junior and senior years. Leadership and big-play capacity for four years. That is gone, and those four years are now three. That is far too high a price to pay for anything that is likely to be gained this year.

I agree that Todd Dodge knows far more about football than I will ever know. But I still disagree with him on this one.

[NT80]

Red Shirt

Red shirting is not an official NCAA term, but the term is used when a student-athlete does not participate

in any competition during a particular academic year (i.e., neither in the championship nor the nonchampionship

segment of the playing season). A student-athlete may be red-shirted at any point in his/her

athletic career.

Is a transfer year considered the same as a redshirt year as far as remaining eligibility is concerned? Doesn't a player only have five years to play four unless given a medical redshirt? I'm not saying, I'm just asking.

[greenminer]

I agree. I just don't think Riley translates to a winning season this year. With the status of the offensive and defensive lines, I don't think he adds enough spark for even one or two more wins this year than the team would have achieved without him. Frankly, Gilmore's return has a far better chance of adding wins than Riley does.

But let's say Riley does mean an extra win this year. Let's say his presence means two more wins this year. Are you willing to trade an entire season of a veteran Riley Dodge at quarterback for two wins in a losing season this year? Because IF North Texas is grooming Riley Dodge to be this team's quarterback, then that's the trade UNT has made. You're giving up a full season of veteran quarterback play when he would have been at the peak of his game.

This program was lined up for four years of talented upper-classman play at QB, two from Vizza and two from Riley, starting next year. Two years of Vizza as junior and senior with Riley as one of his wide receivers, then turn the offense over to Riley for his junior and senior years. Leadership and big-play capacity for four years. That is gone, and those four years are now three. That is far too high a price to pay for anything that is likely to be gained this year.

I agree that Todd Dodge knows far more about football than I will ever know. But I still disagree with him on this one.

You can't have this only one way. *preface: I was all for Riley redshirting too. But I think this counterpoint needs to be said*

You think he can't take us to the promised land now, like basketball? I agree, but you have to hold this candle to his fifth year too. Senior Riley isn't going to mean jack shit if we start losing out on some recruiting wars and he's surrounded by second-choicers down the road because we lost DE choice #1, etc, to Arkie State because they just beat A&M this year.

Look at the immediate return. This season, not 3 years from now, is absolutely critical for Dodge. You absolutely have to consider that if Riley - directly or indirectly - wins us a 1 or 2 extra Belt games this year that we wouldn't otherwise, it could mean some momentum in an otherwise disastrous season.

What are we risking? Seriously? Reality check, Mean Greeners: We don't have Michael Vick here, and this isn't basketball. Dodge has had two recruiting seasons under him (really, less than 1.5) and he's gotten us Vizza AND Riley...and so now Smitty is worried we're going to have some kind of drop-off after Riley in the depth chart 3 years - and subsequent 3 more recruited QBs - from now?

We need to win NOW. And get us another decent recruiting class (along with Riley's heir) down the road.

/done

Edited September 12, 2008 by greenminer

[Mean Green 93-98]

You can't have this only one way. *preface: I was all for Riley redshirting too. But I think this counterpoint needs to be said*

You think he can't take us to the promised land now, like basketball? I agree, but you have to hold this candle to his fifth year too. Senior Riley isn't going to mean jack shit if we start losing out on some recruiting wars and he's surrounded by second-choicers down the road because we lost DE choice #1, etc, to Arkie State because they just beat A&M this year.

Look at the immediate return. This season, not 3 years from now, is absolutely critical for Dodge. You absolutely have to consider that if Riley - directly or indirectly - wins us a 1 or 2 extra Belt games this year that we wouldn't otherwise, it could mean some momentum in an otherwise disastrous season.

What are we risking? Seriously? Reality check, Mean Greeners: We don't have Michael Vick here, and this isn't basketball. Dodge has had two recruiting seasons under him (really, less than 1.5) and he's gotten us Vizza AND Riley...and so now Smitty is worried we're going to have some kind of drop-off after Riley in the depth chart 3 years - and subsequent 3 more recruited QBs - from now?

We need to win NOW. And get us another decent recruiting class (along with Riley's heir) down the road.

/done

My thoughts exactly. But you actually expressed them successfully.

[TWISMUNT]

You can't have this only one way. *preface: I was all for Riley redshirting too. But I think this counterpoint needs to be said*

You think he can't take us to the promised land now, like basketball? I agree, but you have to hold this candle to his fifth year too. Senior Riley isn't going to mean jack shit if we start losing out on some recruiting wars and he's surrounded by second-choicers down the road because we lost DE choice #1, etc, to Arkie State because they just beat A&M this year.

Look at the immediate return. This season, not 3 years from now, is absolutely critical for Dodge. You absolutely have to consider that if Riley - directly or indirectly - wins us a 1 or 2 extra Belt games this year that we wouldn't otherwise, it could mean some momentum in an otherwise disastrous season.

What are we risking? Seriously? Reality check, Mean Greeners: We don't have Michael Vick here, and this isn't basketball. Dodge has had two recruiting seasons under him (really, less than 1.5) and he's gotten us Vizza AND Riley...and so now Smitty is worried we're going to have some kind of drop-off after Riley in the depth chart 3 years - and subsequent 3 more recruited QBs - from now?

We need to win NOW. And get us another decent recruiting class (along with Riley's heir) down the road.

/done

I have always valued everybodies opinion on this board and even more than that your pride for UNT football. Here is my opinion on a couple of subjects from this year and it is not meant to offend anybody.

First off directly related to the quote above in bold. What will it mean if we dont get these top recruits in the next couple of years? Getting great players is important, but what are great players? From 2001 to 2004 we won 4 conference championships utilizing the leftover recruits of everybody else. Hardly anybodies first choice was UNT back then. The game is changing now with more emphasis on athleticism, which means we will need better players. but what we did back then proves that wins can be accomplished with hard work, good coaching and patience.

There is definite value in putting Riley Dodge in the slot also for all of the reasons presented prior to this. Remember a guy named Jaamel Branch? Teams lost sleep over what Dickey was going to have him do that weekend from the slot. Half the time we didn't even know. Big time difference maker on a very successful team. That being said, I dont think that Riley Dodge is too small to be a successful quarterback in D1 football either. One of the most successful quarterbacks in UNT history is a guy by the name of Scott Hall who was just a little undersized right? Of course you will think all he did was hand the ball off, but when he needed to execute a pass it was done. Riley has more tools and experience on his belt than Scooty Mac did and has already shown that he can be successful in this system. Just ask the people he played against in High School. There will be some growing pains, but he can get there.

I know this is dragging out a little and sounding almost preachy, but the final thing I will say is that we really do need to be patient. I can already tell you that if we dont win one of the next four games and things aren't changing that just about everybody on this board is going to be calling for Vizza's neck and asking why we are starting him if he isn't winning. Dont think it will happen? Ask Matt Phillips. I remember reading postings about him like he was a savior and then a couple of losses later he might as well have been the Hurricane Ike of Denton. Somebody said earlier that if we aren't winning in 4 years Dodge wont be here. I dont completely disagree with that, but it is a bit forward. It took Dickey a while to get us winning also. I think we have what we need to get back to where we were and beyond. We just need to give it time and be supportive. GMG

[El Paso Eagle]

Is a transfer year considered the same as a redshirt year as far as remaining eligibility is concerned? Doesn't a player only have five years to play four unless given a medical redshirt? I'm not saying, I'm just asking.

I believe the 5 to play 4 is still in play if you transfer. If you had red shirted as a freshman and played as a Soph., then transfered you would still have to sit out a year and then would end up with only 3 years.

[untphd]

I just don't think Riley translates to a winning season, I don't think he adds enough spark for even one or two more wins this year than the team would have achieved without him. Frankly, Gilmore's return has a far better chance of adding wins than Riley does.

But let's say Riley does mean an extra win this year. Are you willing to trade an entire season of a veteran Riley Dodge at quarterback for two wins in a losing season this year?

That is far too high a price to pay for anything that is likely to be gained this year.

I agree that Todd Dodge knows far more about football than I will ever know.

Are you really wanting us to believe this or are you just trying to get us going down the road to nowhere. Do you want two more wins this year, or do you want two less wins this year. Do you ever think about anyone else but you, or do you want to have the entire school to think that not playing Riley will give us extra wins four years from now. Do you even care what he thinks? Get a grip and go on down the road.

[Smitty]

Are you really wanting us to believe this or are you just trying to get us going down the road to nowhere. Do you want two more wins this year, or do you want two less wins this year. Do you ever think about anyone else but you, or do you want to have the entire school to think that not playing Riley will give us extra wins four years from now. Do you even care what he thinks? Get a grip and go on down the road.

What I want is for UNT to be on a road to a present AND future successful football program. Of course I want those two more wins this year. I want many more wins this year. But I think Riley's presence as a junior and senior quarterback, in 2011 and 2012, would have paid bigger dividends than will be realized by his presence this season. I have no idea what "he" thinks (do you mean Riley or coach Dodge?) but I know that it is a common practice in major college football to redshirt a top athlete in his true freshman year when his position or positions are well manned. And this year North Texas has talent and depth at QB and WR. I simply believe that we need Riley more in 2009-2012 than we do in 2008, and that the long-term move would have been a better choice for this program.

Are differing opinions not welcome? And I don't understand why you seem to be taking offense. "Do you ever think about anyone else but you?" Where does that come from? You're right. I guess I don't care about anyone but myself. That's why I spend dozens and dozens and dozens of hours creating screensavers, wallpapers, icons, cellphone wallpapers, userbars, and avatars for North Texas students and alumni, and offered them up for free. That's why I spent my own money to purchase a domain name and hosting, then spent more time building a website to make those materials easily available for people. Yeah, pretty damned selfish.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Smitty

[UNTflyer]

Smitty, if you didn't do those wallpapers, I'd be looking at a plain old black background.

Thanks for all you do.

I think Riley wanted in the game, his Dad needed a player, and Riley ran the most exciting play on Saturday. Like it or not, Riley is active. You can redshirt a player for any year. Maybe he'll play WR this year, sit out, then come back as a sophomore QB for Vizza's Senior year.

[Smitty]

I think Riley wanted in the game, his Dad needed a player, and Riley ran the most exciting play on Saturday. Like it or not, Riley is active. You can redshirt a player for any year. Maybe he'll play WR this year, sit out, then come back as a sophomore QB for Vizza's Senior year.

Very true. And believe me, no one hopes more than I that Riley plays a critical role in extra wins for a program that needs extra wins. The decision has been made, Riley is playing, and it's done.

[DirtySavage]

2 scenarios: todge won't leave unt until rodge graduates. Todge realized the situation he got himself into in Denton and with all of you yahoos, and is expediating his exodus to the big 12 by pushing rodge through as quickly as possible.

The other is that he wants Riley to have his reshirt for later when he leaves for the big12 so Riley doesn't have to lose a year of eligibility due to transfer.

I wouldn't be a mean green fan if I didn't beleive in conspiracy or question authority!

[DallasGreen]

2 scenarios: todge won't leave unt until rodge graduates. Todge realized the situation he got himself into in Denton and with all of you yahoos, and is expediating his exodus to the big 12 by pushing rodge through as quickly as possible.

The other is that he wants Riley to have his reshirt for later when he leaves for the big12 so Riley doesn't have to lose a year of eligibility due to transfer.

I wouldn't be a mean green fan if I didn't beleive in conspiracy or question authority!

Bingo real reason now confirmed. Riley will go with his dad in year 4 if not sooner and will use the red shirt year to transfer with eligibility left. TD never really new just how bad a situation he was inheriting nor the speed of the college game and far underestimated the rapid improvement that the SBC has shown. If the student vote fails you will see all handing out resumes and running to the exit. My overriding question is WHY are we the only program in D-1 to let students decide our future? I truly don't get it.

[eulessismore]

Very true. And believe me, no one hopes more than I that Riley plays a critical role in extra wins for a program that needs extra wins. The decision has been made, Riley is playing, and it's done.

Thank you!

[Cr1028]

Bingo real reason now confirmed. Riley will go with his dad in year 4 if not sooner and will use the red shirt year to transfer with eligibility left. TD never really new just how bad a situation he was inheriting nor the speed of the college game and far underestimated the rapid improvement that the SBC has shown. If the student vote fails you will see all handing out resumes and running to the exit. My overriding question is WHY are we the only program in D-1 to let students decide our future? I truly don't get it.

Maybe most schools have wealthy donor and corporate support. Maybe most athletic depts treat alumni and donors with equal respect. Maybe FCS is our destiny.

What if Riley goes through and gets his degree in four years and goes on to life after football? Can you imagine the belly-aching on this board if we only received 3 years of his service instead of 4? You'd hear "I can't believe he would leave" and more derogatory comments. This is not a professional sports program, their duty first and foremost is to educate young men and send them on their way.

[MeanGreenZen]

I am not believing the Riley Dodge/Wes Welker comparisons. I can believe a Riley Dodge/Drew Brees comparison. Those of you saying Riley is too small to play quarterback in college are crazy. The spread offense negates the need for size at the quarterback position. Maybe Chase Daniel is too small to play quarterback in college because Riley is taller than him. Maybe Missouri should reconsider playing Chase Daniel at QB and move him to the slot? When Chase Daniel wins the Heisman he should probably decline it because, after all, he really isn't tall enough to be playing quarterback in college. Joey Byerly sure was tall. Why didn't he make it?

P.S. -- If Todd Dodge can't win here, he won't be looking for a job in the Big 12, he will be looking for a job in Class 5A. So spare me the "Todd is saving Riley's redshirt for a potential transfer later in his career" argument. They both picked North Texas and they will both sink or swim with that decision. I am betting they swim. And I am betting Riley Dodge will be our starting quarterback before we begin Sun Belt play.

[bigntex]

[

P.S. -- If Todd Dodge can't win here, he won't be looking for a job in the Big 12, he will be looking for a job in Class 5A. So spare me the "Todd is saving Riley's redshirt for a potential transfer later in his career" argument. They both picked North Texas and they will both sink or swim with that decision. I am betting they swim. And I am betting Riley Dodge will be our starting quarterback before we begin Sun Belt play.

Edited September 13, 2008 by bigntex