I Am Just Curious...

NCMeanGreen · September 3, 2008

....if we have another game that is "a difficult one to swallow" (as Harry put the KSU game) against Tulsa...how many of us will start to question TD a little more? Would that not be fair?

He seems to get pass after pass...when is it time for the hard questions for our HEAD football coach?

For instance (and not to beat a dead horse since there is a whole entire thread on this subject), why did we let up against KSU? And...can he honestly say he did that so it WOULD NOT GET OUT OF HAND!??! 45-6 is not out of hand? (Well, I guess compared to OU last year it is not)...but he got a bye on that game as well didn't he?

HE didn't schedule the games...the talent level is not his fault...injuries...<insert excuse here>...

STOP WHINING AND COACH SOME FOOTBALL!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

One other thing...tell me why so many players are leaving this program??? Is that in and of itself not concerning???

KRAM1 · September 3, 2008

OUCH...NCMeanGreen...love the AVATAR...Screaming Eagles...in fact I saw that emblem on a gate in Normany, France a couple of years ago...great to see, especially in France...but, to your question...

NOPE...WAY too early to push any panic button. Lot's of today's big time winners as coaches struggled getting out of the door to start programs. This program was in need of a "new focus" and it will take a bit of time. I, too, would love to WIN NOW. But, simply ios not going to happen. Sherman is a good coach for A&M, but he took one in the gut this weekend and I am sure some folks are posting the same sort of stuff right now.

UNT has got to re-build and re-load. Remember, while Dodge is and was a WINNER, this is his firsy head coaching gig! I, for one, think he is doing just fine and I was one who, at first, was not over joyed in the hire of a HS Coach for UNT. I do believe Dodge is the answer for UNT over the next several years and I think one day, you will be posting how bad it will be should Dodge take that job at BIG TIME U that is being bantered about in the media.

Just "cool your jets" and give it some time...no excuses, no whining. I agree 100% with that. I know yo are not bashing Dodge or calling for any kind of "win or else" stuff. It's a decent and a good question...just way too early for that in my opinion. There are others, of course, who have a different opinion. Come on in.....

meangreenbob · September 3, 2008

Kansas State was way too good.

The score could have been 70 to 0 had the Wildcats not taken out their first string early in the second half.

That was class on the part of the K-State coaching staff.

I have a tremendous amount of faith and confidence in our coaching staff, the administration and I believe the players did the best they could.

We are at least two years away from fielding a team that can compete and win against this kind of competition.

I predict that Dodge and Company will beat those boys when they come to Denton in 2010.

September 3, 2008

I agree with KRAM. With a proven winner as a head coach, even if it was high school, I don't think that you get overly concerned until the end of the third year. If he was an assistant that had moved up then I might start looking askance by the middle of the second year.

We've seen improvement in the offense, we believe that he has/will correct defensive problems (assuming that he'll listen to DeLoach), and sees the urgency in improving special teams. He still needs to learn to coach the college game. I think that each of those areas will show improvement by season's end.

I was as disappointed as any fan that we have over the KSU game, possibly because I realized how far we have to go; not how far we have come. Most of Dodge's recruits were playing in their first game and those that were not were not recruited for the spread offense. Injuries haven't helped either, although it's unlikely that either us or our opponents will remain injury-free throughout any season.

Every team has a bad game during the season when a mistake throws everything off. Ours just happened against too good of a team to recover. I expect a much better showing this week than last. Whether that will translate to a win, we'll just have to see.

emmitt01 · September 3, 2008

That was class on the part of the K-State coaching staff.

Really?

As classy as going for it on 4th and 1 and in field goal range...when you are already up 3 touchdowns?

Or was it as classy as kicking a field goal late in the 4th quarter up 42-6?

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 3, 2008

Really?
As classy as going for it on 4th and 1 and in field goal range...when you are already up 3 touchdowns?
Or was it as classy as kicking a field goal late in the 4th quarter up 42-6?

In response to the first one - if I am the coach in that situation, I go for the score up 3 touchdowns all day long. He is playing a team that has been known to not only score, but score fast. Think about it this way - if he kicks the field goal, and UNT comes back to win (highly unlikely I know) he will be answering questions for years as to why he didn't just punch it in.

As to the second one - going for a field goal when up 42-6 to me is not running up the score. Sure he could take a knee, but why not just take three knees when they got the ball and punt? If we were in that situation, I would kick the field goal too.

UNTLifer · September 3, 2008

One other thing...tell me why so many players are leaving this program??? Is that in and of itself not concerning???

Maybe I'm missing something here, but would someone, preferably a poster that keeps bringing this up, show me the list of the "so many players leaving this program."

I see the following:

Padron: reported as medical reasons, could have been something else, but I really never saw him being on the field much.

Fentriss: knee injury ended his career.

Garden: left a very deep position. My opinion is that when he transferred there was no depth, then he saw the talented incoming freshmen and JUCO's and decided to concentrate on academics. Again, just my opinion.

Edwards: Didn't have the grades to transfer, so really never should have joined the team.

Gilmore: grades. He had the same issue under DD, so I don't take this as an indictment on TD's program.

Horton: never made it to campus because of academic shortcomings

None of the above listed "I've got problems with Dodge's program" as their reason for leaving. Players leave teams every year. Please show me your cause for concern.

Edited September 3, 2008 by UNTLifer

Green Mean · September 3, 2008

I am on the side that says TD needs more time to build the program up. I say a solid 3-4 years is necessary for a program like ours. We may be a big school but in the end we are small time athletics program and its not very easy turning a football program around in just a year or two. However I think its perfect necessary and okay to question TD as far as his in game coaching, game plans etc.

greenminer · September 3, 2008

I agree with KRAM. With a proven winner as a head coach, even if it was high school, I don't think that you get overly concerned until the end of the third year. If he was an assistant that had moved up then I might start looking askance by the middle of the second year.
We've seen improvement in the offense, we believe that he has/will correct defensive problems (assuming that he'll listen to DeLoach), and sees the urgency in improving special teams. He still needs to learn to coach the college game. I think that each of those areas will show improvement by season's end.
I was as disappointed as any fan that we have over the KSU game, possibly because I realized how far we have to go; not how far we have come. Most of Dodge's recruits were playing in their first game and those that were not were not recruited for the spread offense. Injuries haven't helped either, although it's unlikely that either us or our opponents will remain injury-free throughout any season.
Every team has a bad game during the season when a mistake throws everything off. Ours just happened against too good of a team to recover. I expect a much better showing this week than last. Whether that will translate to a win, we'll just have to see.

Other coaches got hired the same time as Coach Dodge. How are they doing at their respective institutions?

Harbough (sp?)?

Wasn't Neuheisal just recently hired at UCLA?

UNT Mean Green · September 3, 2008

Other coaches got hired the same time as Coach Dodge. How are they doing at their respective institutions?
Harbough (sp?)?
Wasn't Neuheisal just recently hired at UCLA?

UCLA & Stanford...comparing them to UNT is apples to oranges. They are Pac 10 schools that have great histories. Not quite the same as a Big West/Southland/Sun Belt School.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 3, 2008

Other coaches got hired the same time as Coach Dodge. How are they doing at their respective institutions?
Harbough (sp?)?
Wasn't Neuheisal just recently hired at UCLA?

I'm not sure those are really apples to apples comparisons. UCLA was stacked with talent, and while Stanford isn't in their class, I'm sure the cupboard looked fuller than what Dodge found at UNT. Besides, Harbaugh's 4 wins is fine for a first-year coach but would be viewed entirely differently for a third- or fourth-year coach.

EDIT: Believe it or not, I hadn't read UNT Mean Green's post when I made mine.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Mean Green 93-98

September 3, 2008

Maybe I'm missing something here, but would someone, preferably a poster that keeps bringing this up, show me the list of the "so many players leaving this program."
I see the following:
Padron: reported as medical reasons, could have been something else, but I really never saw him being on the field much.
Fentriss: knee injury ended his career.
Garden: left a very deep position. My opinion is that when he transferred there was no depth, then he saw the talented incoming freshmen and JUCO's and decided to concentrate on academics. Again, just my opinion.
Edwards: Didn't have the grades to transfer, so really never should have joined the team.
Gilmore: grades. He had the same issue under DD, so I don't take this as an indictment on TD's program.
Horton: never made it to campus because of academic shortcomings
None of the above listed "I've got problems with Dodge's program" as their reason for leaving. Players leave teams every year. Please show me your cause for concern.

I don't know about the bailouts; I think that happens everytime there is a coaching change. I think what NCMG is referring to mostly was last year's exodus by Green, Chatmon and Oubre. Also, Peachey left for some reason, as did a couple of others (Ealey, Roman). This year, Marcus King left.

Academics, injuries and lack of playing time cause players to leave every program; at least at the 1-A level. Due to a totally different style of play, I think maybe North Texas lost a few more than the norm.

houstonmeangreen · September 3, 2008

OUCH...NCMeanGreen...love the AVATAR...Screaming Eagles...in fact I saw that emblem on a gate in Normany, France a couple of years ago...great to see, especially in France...but, to your question...
NOPE...WAY too early to push any panic button. Lot's of today's big time winners as coaches struggled getting out of the door to start programs. This program was in need of a "new focus" and it will take a bit of time. I, too, would love to WIN NOW. But, simply ios not going to happen. Sherman is a good coach for A&M, but he took one in the gut this weekend and I am sure some folks are posting the same sort of stuff right now.
UNT has got to re-build and re-load. Remember, while Dodge is and was a WINNER, this is his firsy head coaching gig! I, for one, think he is doing just fine and I was one who, at first, was not over joyed in the hire of a HS Coach for UNT. I do believe Dodge is the answer for UNT over the next several years and I think one day, you will be posting how bad it will be should Dodge take that job at BIG TIME U that is being bantered about in the media.
Just "cool your jets" and give it some time...no excuses, no whining. I agree 100% with that. I know yo are not bashing Dodge or calling for any kind of "win or else" stuff. It's a decent and a good question...just way too early for that in my opinion. There are others, of course, who have a different opinion. Come on in.....

DD won 4 sunbelt championships, then didn't perform for 2 straight years...the axe....and TD? Well, I think we should see some progress this year and he should get 3 years to make his case, then you have to question your decision....were talking sunbelt competition here.....look at the situation with RM...in my opinion he was given tooooo long and showed no positive trend...TD should have made a change mid season, perhaps we would have won a few more games last year and sure would have said something about TD making the right decisions for this program...sometimes you have to give things time; sometimes you have to cut your losses....life ain't easy.

I do thing (as of now) that TD was a good choice for UNT and will prove to be an outstanding coach at the college level, but this is still to be determined....let's hope for the best.

yyz28 · September 3, 2008

Should I go ahead and register www.firedodge.com? :rolleyes:

adman · September 3, 2008

I don't know about the bailouts; I think that happens everytime there is a coaching change. I think what NCMG is referring to mostly was last year's exodus by Green, Chatmon and Oubre. Also, Peachey left for some reason, as did a couple of others (Ealey, Roman). This year, Marcus King left.
Academics, injuries and lack of playing time cause players to leave every program; at least at the 1-A level. Due to a totally different style of play, I think maybe North Texas lost a few more than the norm.

Ealy had legal issues back in his hometown that caused him to leave Denton.

meangreenbob · September 3, 2008

Really?
As classy as going for it on 4th and 1 and in field goal range...when you are already up 3 touchdowns?
Or was it as classy as kicking a field goal late in the 4th quarter up 42-6?

Emmitt, we would do the same thing if it was us and we were playing at home in front of a large home crowd. Don't ya think? I guess we could have called a timeout, slammed down a copy of the "Political Correctness Manual", opened it to the page where it clearly states that one opponent must not damaged the self- esteem of another opponent by performing according to the rules and object of the game. They called off the dogs shortly after that. The question we need to be asking is why didn't we just stop them?

They could have destroyed our team if they had wanted to but they play in Bill Synder's FAMILY Stadium and it just wouldn't be right to let young children witness something like that. They recite the Pledge Of Allegiance " under God" and actually sing the National Anthem before the game. The American Flag leads their team out onto the field followed by the school flag. You know, you were there. The people of Kansas are the most gracious and friendly people I have ever met! They don't talk it, they live it and it was reflected that night on the field.

We could learn a lot from those people and I hope we did. That was a great collegiate atmosphere.

GO MEAN GREEN! Can't wait till Saturday.

LongJim · September 3, 2008

Really?
As classy as going for it on 4th and 1 and in field goal range...when you are already up 3 touchdowns?
Or was it as classy as kicking a field goal late in the 4th quarter up 42-6?

IMO, kicking in those situations is not the thing to do. I would have gone for it on 4th. I would have run the ball up 42-6.

UNTLifer · September 3, 2008

Woody was an athlete that Dodge wanted to move, Woody wanted to be a QB and went elsewhere. Don't see that as a problem with the program.

Woodward/Moreland: Kickers that didn't perform.

Tomlin: decided NT wasn't for him, nothing against the program. In fact, I would say he made his decision too early by getting caught up in the Coach Dodge hype having played for him at SLC, and didn't research the university.

Grade issues regarding players grades at a JUCO are not indicative of how Dodge runs the program here.

The "few young men" you refer to made allegations that were later proven as false. Players of the same race came to the support of the coaching staff.

Again, I don't see anyone leaving because of how the program is run. It is quite obvious to me that TD runs a tighter ship and expects more out of his players on and off the field than DD did. If players leave because of this, then I support TD.

UNT_playmaker · September 3, 2008

....if we have another game that is "a difficult one to swallow" (as Harry put the KSU game) against Tulsa...how many of us will start to question TD a little more? Would that not be fair?
He seems to get pass after pass...when is it time for the hard questions for our HEAD football coach?
For instance (and not to beat a dead horse since there is a whole entire thread on this subject), why did we let up against KSU? And...can he honestly say he did that so it WOULD NOT GET OUT OF HAND!??! 45-6 is not out of hand? (Well, I guess compared to OU last year it is not)...but he got a bye on that game as well didn't he?
HE didn't schedule the games...the talent level is not his fault...injuries...<insert excuse here>...
STOP WHINING AND COACH SOME FOOTBALL!!!
One other thing...tell me why so many players are leaving this program??? Is that in and of itself not concerning???

I was listening to the game on KNTU and this game could have been like the OU game at Norman last year, easily... I was there, things got out of hand quickly.

The offense didnt do much out there in the means of productivity, I dont expect much for the Tulsa game...

MeanMag · September 3, 2008

I don't feel that I should have to remind people how long we kept Dickey around for before he started winning games. The difference is, I think, once we start winning those games it might not stop until Dodge leaves.

meangreenbob · September 3, 2008

I was listening to the game on KNTU and this game could have been like the OU game at Norman last year, easily... I was there, things got out of hand quickly.
The offense didnt do much out there in the means of productivity, I dont expect much for the Tulsa game...

The most disappointing aspect of the K-State game was the offense. I didn't expect a miracle from the defense, not this year, not yet. But I did expect our offense to at least move the ball up and down the field even if it didn't score, eating up the clock and keeping the ball away from the K-State offense. I don't even remember a pass attempt thrown downfield. It looked too much like dicky ball and thats scary.

I remember RV saying at the Kickoff Cookout in 2007 that we would never again play a game just for the money. I took that to mean that from there on out we would always play to win. I have no choice but believe K-State was just too darn good and we tried as hard as we could for 60 minutes because if I don't then I just drove 1050 miles, spent over $700.00 to watch dickey ball and that makes me want to throw up.

Edited September 3, 2008 by meangreenbob

MootPoint · September 3, 2008

DD won 4 sunbelt championships, then didn't perform for 2 straight years...the axe....and TD? Well, I think we should see some progress this year and he should get 3 years to make his case, then you have to question your decision....were talking sunbelt competition here.....look at the situation with RM...in my opinion he was given tooooo long and showed no positive trend...TD should have made a change mid season, perhaps we would have won a few more games last year and sure would have said something about TD making the right decisions for this program...sometimes you have to give things time; sometimes you have to cut your losses....life ain't easy.
I do thing (as of now) that TD was a good choice for UNT and will prove to be an outstanding coach at the college level, but this is still to be determined....let's hope for the best.

Hmm . . . how long did DD get so that he could even have the opportunity to get some wins in? He was on the verge of losing his job prior to winning that first championship. I'm sure TD will get less time (but no more than an equal amount of time) to make his case b/c the expectations are higher with him.

GMoney · September 4, 2008

I've said this about every coach NT has hired since Dennis Parker - you give them until their first recruiting class goes through as seniors. I'm not saying you don't question games here and there because no one is perfect. However, to really access the merits of what a coach is doing with a program you need to let them get their "guys" spread throughout the program from old to young. As frustrating as the KSU game was, I keep thinking about how young this team is. 62 of the 101 players on this team are freshmen or sophmores. Of that 62, 42 are true freshmen. No matter who the coach is, we still need to give it time before passing judgement.

Edited September 4, 2008 by GMoney

Green Buckeye · September 4, 2008

I've said this about every coach NT has hired since Dennis Parker - you give them until their first recruiting class goes through as seniors. I'm not saying you don't question games here and there because no one is perfect. However, to really access the merits of what a coach is doing with a program you need to let them get their "guys" spread throughout the program from old to young. As frustrating as the KSU game was, I keep thinking about how young this team is. 62 of the 101 players on this team are freshmen or sophmores. Of that 62, 42 are true freshmen. No matter who the coach is, we still need to give it time before passing judgement.

Agreed 100%. Dodge came into this program to pretty much raze and rebuild. The offense is a polar opposite to what was going on with Dickey and the players required for it are, too. Same with the changes on the other side of the ball. Throw that in with the challenge of not only learning to coach on a higher level than HS, but at one of the most disrespected D-IA schools in football, and then try to recruit the talent to build a winning program there. The man's got his work cut out for him, give Dodge time to address the issues at hand.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 4, 2008

Agreed 100%. Dodge came into this program to pretty much raze and rebuild. The offense is a polar opposite to what was going on with Dickey and the players required for it are, too. Same with the changes on the other side of the ball. Throw that in with the challenge of not only learning to coach on a higher level than HS, but at one of the most disrespected D-IA schools in football, and then try to recruit the talent to build a winning program there. The man's got his work cut out for him, give Dodge time to address the issues at hand.

I don't believe that most on here are questioning Dodge as the answer, but rather questioning the situation of the KSU game. I still believe 100% that he will get this thing turned around along with help from DeLoach. It is just going to take longer than most of us wanted or expected. That being said, I still think we will win 4 games this season and then probably 6 next year.