Some Things To Think About

emmitt01 · September 2, 2008

It's arguable that we are in for a world of hurtin' this year. Some might say we gonna be blown out by Tulsa next weekend and it's all down hill from there. Most, I'm sure, would argue that we stand no chance of winning the belt. Those naysayers might be right...but....

1) We lost big in our opener

Ok, so what is new? When have we ever gone on the road and beaten someone? Let's look at a few select years:

2001- Lost to TCU 19-5 (the frogs weren't near as good back then)

2002- Lost to UT 27-0

2003- Lost to OU 37-3

2004- Lost to UT 65-0

What's important about these years? We won a conference title at the end of each of them.

2) All the other Sun Belt teams are way ahead of us

Let's take a trip around the league:

Troy beat MUTS 31-17

ASU beat aTm (Gotta give kudos on this one)

FIU lost to KU 40-10

ULL lost to Southern Miss 51-21

ULM lost to Auburn 34-0

FAU lost to UT 52-10 (more on this in a minute)

So...aside from ASU nobody in our conference won a game this week that wasn't played against another SBC team.

3) We lost to a middle of the road Big XII team

Surely a loss to KSU is far and away worse than had we lost to OU, UT, Tech etc, right? I mean FAU, the consensus favorite to win our conference, lost to UT 52-10 for a larger margin of defeat than we did. But that can't mean anything at all because KSU and UT...the team we love to drop to our knees for...are in different stratospheres. It's not like KSU beat UT by 20 last season 41-21 and is 2-0 against the Longhorns in the last two seasons...oh wait, they did and they are.

4) We gave up 45 points and that's the same average as last season's defense.

If we pay absolutely no attention to the fact that, in order to reach that 45 point average, we gave up 74 to Navy, 66 to Arkansas and 79 to OU then this argument holds water. Yep, if we ignore the fact that the game we just played against KSU we gave up 21 points less than the lowest of these three scores and then assume that we will give up some astronomical number like 95 to someone this season then maybe, just maybe, we can argue that the defense is about the same. Of course then we'd also have to go completely brain dead and ignore the fact that Gary Deloach is not Ron Mendoza.

I don't know about you but I'm gonna see how this season plays out before I jump off that ledge.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 2, 2008

Can't argue. Good points.

Travis · September 2, 2008

I don't argue anything that you say. And I hope we improve this week just like we did last year from game 1 to 2.

The thing that bugs me is how poor our offense was considering who all was returning.

That is my only issue. I would expect us to do better than we did. Our kind of ball we play now demands our offense to do move chains and score as oppose to DD style of clock control.

meanrob · September 2, 2008

I'm not about to jump off a ledge.

However, in some of those games you mentioned i saw some positives, plus a lot of the players on those teams were proven commodities who were just playing very good teams. Especially in 2003 and 2004. Can't really compare about how i felt walking out after the 27-0 loss at UT and how i felt after leaving on Saturday.

When you can't stop an average big 12 team AND can't move the ball on them until the game is out of reach, well that's another story.

We are playing a pretty good team this weekend, however i expect improvement.

calvin · September 2, 2008

First of all I want to say that I still believe in Dodge and I was hoping things would be better the other night and I didnt have a lot of expectations but I will say that I will be highly disappointed if we dont show a great deal of improvement as the year goes on. I hope it doesnt but this may be a 4 year project, just like it was with Johnny Jones. We are just going to have to be patient.

I really dont see a reason to compare our season openers of our title teams with this team and the game the other night. That seems like a long time ago and I dont think this team is ready to compete for a conf. title just yet.

As far as comparing our game with the other teams in our conference, I think the only one you can compare it with was ULL. They are the only ones that got blown out like we did and they were terrible last year just like we were. FIU was down 30-10 at the half the other night, at least they had 10. FAU got blown out but I watched the game and their first 2 drives they got inside of UT's 20 and had a bad snap for a turnover and then Smith had a passed tipped in the end zone that got picked off, so it could have been 14-14 in the first quarter. I thought FAU looked good in the first half the other night. Still think they are the team to beat. ULM didnt exactly get blown out, I think they were only down 14-0 at the half. Then you look at our game and it seems like we were just blown out from the opening kickoff. It seems like our score could have been a lot worse.

Like I said, I just want to see improvement week in and week out. I wont be too thrilled if we are still losing 48-20 at home to conference teams or losing 45-0 on the road to conference teams.

NM Green · September 2, 2008

People wandered into my office to see if I was distraught today. I have witnessed too many Dodge style offenses to realize that if you cannot get it going you are not going to win. Conversely if you do catch the rhythm you have a chance to win. Based on Tulsa's defense I am confident we will get it going on Saturday. With any kind of defensive improvement we are in the game with Tulsa. With some solid improvement we win. With great improvement on the defensive side of the ball we beat down Tulsa. The way you beat Hawaii, SMU or UNT is to not let them get anything going - congrats to KSU.

Both programs 1-1 after Saturday!

GMG

tulsafanintexas · September 2, 2008

YOU ARE ON DOPE!!!! BEAT TULSA A CHANCE YEA RIGHT :blink:

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 2, 2008

I hope it doesnt but this may be a 4 year project, just like it was with Johnny Jones. We are just going to have to be patient.

We are going to have to be patient, because this is probably no less than a 3 year project. Barring major injuries, you will see a lot of improvement on the defensive side of the ball, but we have a long ways to go and it won't happen this year. Patience.

People wandered into my office to see if I was distraught today. I have witnessed too many Dodge style offenses to realize that if you cannot get it going you are not going to win. Conversely if you do catch the rhythm you have a chance to win. Based on Tulsa's defense I am confident we will get it going on Saturday. With any kind of defensive improvement we are in the game with Tulsa. With some solid improvement we win. With great improvement on the defensive side of the ball we beat down Tulsa. The way you beat Hawaii, SMU or UNT is to not let them get anything going - congrats to KSU.
Both programs 1-1 after Saturday!
GMG

I hope you are right about the Tulsa game, but I have my doubts right now. I realize they have a bad defense and this is a new season, but they beat saturday a team that had a season last year very similar to ours. Freeman is a great QB, but he passed with seemly very little problems against our D, so I will expect much of the same this coming saturday. I hope our guys prove me wrong, but I am causiously optimistic.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 2, 2008

I am not too down about Saturday's loss, but I just don't see us beating Tulsa.

But if I were a betting man, I would put down good money that tulsafanintexas gets whipped pretty soundly before leaving Fouts.

eulessismore · September 2, 2008

I was thinking about posting this as a separate thread, but a lot has already been mentioned about our special teams problems, so I'll just pose a question. Is it possible that that North Texas lost, not because our special teams are so bad, but because KSU special teams were so good? Adler mentioned last year that North Texas should hire the guy who is now the special teams coordinator at KSU, Jeff Rodgers. After reading Rodgers' resume at that time (when he was Assistant Special Teams Coordinator for the SF 49ers, I agreed with Adler. Someone posed the question, "why would anyone in their right mind leave SF to take a position at North Texas?". I guess the same question could be asked as to why he would want to move to Manhattan, but my main point is, shouldn't we have someone whose only responsibility is special teams play? It is such an important part of the game, and is increasingly so, it would seem to me.

I thought some of you might want to take a look at Rodger's resume from a KSU football site, especially since he was a four year letterman for North Texas:

Jeff Rodgers bio

DeepGreen · September 2, 2008

Wouldn't it be nice to have one of our own connected to the UNT coaching staff or athletic department?

yyz28 · September 2, 2008

Folks, let me be the first to say I think Coach Dodge is going to turn this program around... but let's remember some of the MAJOR negatives that have happened since he has arrived (not all his fault, I'm sure, but problems he faces none the less..)...

1. first year he had a totally ineffective defensive coach.

2. he's a high-school coach who is just learning the College game - his inablity (or unwillingness) to adjust is painfully obvious, but I'm sure he's learning this lesson in a trial by fire.

3. important recruits not following through and playing - seems like every other day leading up to the seaason, I'd come on this board and find this one had de-comitted, this one didn't make the grade, that one has left the team...

4. scholarship problems.

5. Jr's and Sr's on the team were recruited for a totally different style of play. ...this isn't to say they aren't talented, but a drag car isn't going to fare well on a road race course, or vise versa...

Someone before me said this was going to be a several year project. I think this is right. I also want to start winning now, but the realist in me says its going to be a while.

PHSCoach · September 2, 2008

2. he's a high-school coach who is just learning the College game - his inablity (or unwillingness) to adjust is painfully obvious, but I'm sure he's learning this lesson in a trial by fire.
3. important recruits not following through and playing - seems like every other day leading up to the seaason, I'd come on this board and find this one had de-comitted, this one didn't make the grade, that one has left the team...
4. scholarship problems.
5. Jr's and Sr's on the team were recruited for a totally different style of play. ...this isn't to say they aren't talented, but a drag car isn't going to fare well on a road race course, or vise versa...

2. He is adjusting he just doesn't know to what. He has several plays that are 2 back sets and several more with a TE. This is something that he said that he would not do.

3. He has had the best recruting classes in the history of UNT just ask.

4. He or RV are the reason that they have a scholarship problem when you send players off campus rather than help them then do not let them returm you will pay the NCAA

5. The Jr's and Sr's on the team amount to 17 players that were not recruited by TD that is a little over 20%

filmerj · September 2, 2008

If I remember correctly a lot of those that were part of the best recruiting class in UNT history, were the ones that either didn't make the grade, left the team and transferred, or de-committed. I think it will take a couple of years, but there were some questionable decisions made on Saturday.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 2, 2008

I don't see this team winning more than 4 games this year, which would put us in a position to go .500 next year. It just takes time when you completely revamp everything and we basically had a step back last year in terms of our defense. Prepare yourselves for saturday. I wasn't prepared the last time Tulsa came to town, but I will be this time.

Green Dozer · September 2, 2008

I am sorry, but I don't buy into this "just learning the college game" stuff. First, he played quarterback at the University of Texas. Secondly, he did coach here at North Texas before. Albeit, the game has changed since then, but not so much that he does not know the nuances and difference in speed. Now his def. coaches last year, that is a different story. I think we have this year and next before we see any remarkable improvement. Heck, even RV said Deloach was frustrated after the loss, yet he knows he doesn't have "the horses", and that from RV himself. Yes, he may need some players here and there on both sides of the ball, but that is a system thing, not his needing adjustment to make adjustment to college ball.

yyz28 · September 2, 2008

2. He is adjusting he just doesn't know to what. He has several plays that are 2 back sets and several more with a TE. This is something that he said that he would not do.

I'm not saying he isn't adjusting, but he isn't adjusting in a way that seems to be getting much success. When he went to the run, he played dickey-ball. Up the middle. That isn't going to work against a bigger D-Line. He's just not got the college football experience to adjust properly. I believe he's learning, but is adjusting like a High-School football coach.

3. He has had the best recruting classes in the history of UNT just ask.

...except many of them de-comitted, aren't playing, flunked out, or didn't make the grade. That's my point. It WAS a great class, but it didn't stick. The question becomes why? What is going on and will it be corrected? I don't think either one of us have the answer.

4. He or RV are the reason that they have a scholarship problem when you send players off campus rather than help them then do not let them returm you will pay the NCAA

I can't speak to that issue, as I'm not close enough to RV or TD. I know your feeling on it, Coach, but I think your a little biased against the current program for obvious and legitimate reasons. If this turns into a common thread, then I'll hit the panic button.

5. The Jr's and Sr's on the team amount to 17 players that were not recruited by TD that is a little over 20%

So, there are only a few JR's and SR's on the team and most aren't TD Recruits. That's my point. Doesn't mean they aren't good or great players, but they weren't picked for this system. The kids that were picked for this system by this staff are young and are gaining experience just like TD is along the way.

I have faith in the direction this team is going overall, but we're going through some major growing pains and they probably aren't over...

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 2, 2008

The only thing I disagree about is calling K-State a middle of the road Big 12 team. This is a team that began 5-3 last year, including a whipping of Texas at Austin. For reasons unknown, they completely fell apart during the final four games.

We saw a bowl team last Saturday that has a chance to win the Big 12 North - yes, win it! Mizzou or no Mizzou, this K-State team will be overlooked at the peril of their opponents, in or out of conference.

UNTLifer · September 2, 2008

I'm not saying he isn't adjusting, but he isn't adjusting in a way that seems to be getting much success. When he went to the run, he played dickey-ball. Up the middle. That isn't going to work against a bigger D-Line. He's just not got the college football experience to adjust properly. I believe he's learning, but is adjusting like a High-School football coach.
...except many of them de-comitted, aren't playing, flunked out, or didn't make the grade. That's my point. It WAS a great class, but it didn't stick. The question becomes why? What is going on and will it be corrected? I don't think either one of us have the answer.
I can't speak to that issue, as I'm not close enough to RV or TD. I know your feeling on it, Coach, but I think your a little biased against the current program for obvious and legitimate reasons. If this turns into a common thread, then I'll hit the panic button.
So, there are only a few JR's and SR's on the team and most aren't TD Recruits. That's my point. Doesn't mean they aren't good or great players, but they weren't picked for this system. The kids that were picked for this system by this staff are young and are gaining experience just like TD is along the way.
I have faith in the direction this team is going overall, but we're going through some major growing pains and they probably aren't over...

What recruits didn't stick that would make this class, or last year's that much better? Padron? Nope. Fentriss? Left deepest position on the team. Please be specific.

And don't tell me he doesn't have the "college football experience" to adjust properly. Ask Mitch Maher if Dodge knows what he's doing. This is a team full of freshmen, RS freshmen and sophmores basically that is very young but will grow up together. PHS Coach's opinion is biased based upon who he is related to. He just can't be objective, so I discount his thoughts.

greenminer · September 2, 2008

The only thing I disagree about is calling K-State a middle of the road Big 12 team. This is a team that began 5-3 last year, including a whipping of Texas at Austin. For reasons unknown, they completely fell apart during the final four games.
We saw a bowl team last Saturday that has a chance to win the Big 12 North - yes, win it! Mizzou or no Mizzou, this K-State team will be overlooked at the peril of their opponents, in or out of conference.

Kind of interesting to see that Prince may have patchworked these JUCOs into a lightning-in-a-bottle chance for a helluva secondary.

I'll be keeping an eye out on them.

houstonmeangreen · September 2, 2008

I don't argue anything that you say. And I hope we improve this week just like we did last year from game 1 to 2.
The thing that bugs me is how poor our offense was considering who all was returning.
That is my only issue. I would expect us to do better than we did. Our kind of ball we play now demands our offense to do move chains and score as oppose to DD style of clock control.

I have to agree with Travis " The thing that bugs me is how poor our offense was considering who all was returning". I was pretty sure we would have our butts handed to us....I have been around NT football too long to expect otherwise, but to have our bread and butter aspect of our team...that is, offense, especially passing attack, to do soooooo poorly, well...anyway, expect Tulsa to drop kick us as well. This will probably be a long season of being on the wrong end of the scoreboard.

While I like others are praying this isn't the case, TD has not proved anything at UNT....nothing. He better gets some wins on the board because his image is going to be tarnished be the end of this season....just hope things change like they did when DD head went on the block before we started winng Sun Belt championships....but even then, we ususally got drop kicked by teams from other conferences...ie NO bowls, etc...with a few exceptions.

After more than 30 years of NT football pain...things gotta change.

Daddy Dumpsalot · September 2, 2008

It's arguable that we are in for a world of hurtin' this year. Some might say we gonna be blown out by Tulsa next weekend and it's all down hill from there. Most, I'm sure, would argue that we stand no chance of winning the belt. Those naysayers might be right...but....
1) We lost big in our opener
Ok, so what is new? When have we ever gone on the road and beaten someone? Let's look at a few select years:
2001- Lost to TCU 19-5 (the frogs weren't near as good back then)
2002- Lost to UT 27-0
2003- Lost to OU 37-3
2004- Lost to UT 65-0
What's important about these years? We won a conference title at the end of each of them.
2) All the other Sun Belt teams are way ahead of us
Let's take a trip around the league:
Troy beat MUTS 31-17
ASU beat aTm (Gotta give kudos on this one)
FIU lost to KU 40-10
ULL lost to Southern Miss 51-21
ULM lost to Auburn 34-0
FAU lost to UT 52-10 (more on this in a minute)
So...aside from ASU nobody in our conference won a game this week that wasn't played against another SBC team.
3) We lost to a middle of the road Big XII team
Surely a loss to KSU is far and away worse than had we lost to OU, UT, Tech etc, right? I mean FAU, the consensus favorite to win our conference, lost to UT 52-10 for a larger margin of defeat than we did. But that can't mean anything at all because KSU and UT...the team we love to drop to our knees for...are in different stratospheres. It's not like KSU beat UT by 20 last season 41-21 and is 2-0 against the Longhorns in the last two seasons...oh wait, they did and they are.
4) We gave up 45 points and that's the same average as last season's defense.
If we pay absolutely no attention to the fact that, in order to reach that 45 point average, we gave up 74 to Navy, 66 to Arkansas and 79 to OU then this argument holds water. Yep, if we ignore the fact that the game we just played against KSU we gave up 21 points less than the lowest of these three scores and then assume that we will give up some astronomical number like 95 to someone this season then maybe, just maybe, we can argue that the defense is about the same. Of course then we'd also have to go completely brain dead and ignore the fact that Gary Deloach is not Ron Mendoza.
I don't know about you but I'm gonna see how this season plays out before I jump off that ledge.

The only problem with your theory is that you failed to mention the differences in the coaching decisions. I think it is absolutely fair to say that KSU, OU, & Arkansas could have easily put up even more points than they did. I think that Prince could have easily put up 20+ more points than he chose to. Stoops just sucks and chose to creating the margin. I think it is way too early to tell if our defense has improved since last season.

The true test to see if our defense has improved will come when we start our conference games and can actually keep our opponent from putting points on the board and not leave it up to the other coach to "call off his dogs".

emmitt01 · September 3, 2008

The only thing I disagree about is calling K-State a middle of the road Big 12 team. This is a team that began 5-3 last year, including a whipping of Texas at Austin. For reasons unknown, they completely fell apart during the final four games.
We saw a bowl team last Saturday that has a chance to win the Big 12 North - yes, win it! Mizzou or no Mizzou, this K-State team will be overlooked at the peril of their opponents, in or out of conference.

Oh I don't think they are "middle of the road." I was just responding to the general attitude that we got beat by a lowly team...and therefore the loss is even worse.

gangrene · September 3, 2008

Yep, if we ignore the fact that the game we just played against KSU we gave up 21 points less than the lowest of these three scores and then assume that we will give up some astronomical number like 95 to someone this season then maybe, just maybe, we can argue that the defense is about the same.

Carefule there...we still have to play the defending national champs. :huh: