Kansas State Was Symbol Of Ineptitude

[island eagle]

During the 1960's, Kansas State was the epitome of football incompetence. In that decade, KSU's record was 18-80-1. They had no winning seasons and had three years with 0 wins. Don't know the significance of that, other than even the most downtrodden program can change its image and record with the right coaches and support.

[Green Nightmare]

Don't know the significance of that, other than even the most downtrodden program can change its image and record with the right coaches and support.

I don't think any of us do. I choose to believe we can be like them and South Florida etc and hopefully rise to greatness.

Many will point to Kstate conference which does help, but I like to look at someone like South Florida who literally came from less than we did.

Just win baby and lets let the chips fall where they may

[eulessismore]

[During the 1960's, Kansas State was the epitome of football incompetence. In that decade, KSU's record was 18-80-1. They had no winning seasons and had three years with 0 wins. Don't know the significance of that, other than even the most downtrodden program can change its image and record with the right coaches and support.quote name='Green Nightmare' date='Aug 22 2008, 09:28 PM' post='365872']

I don't think any of us do. I choose to believe we can be like them and South Florida etc and hopefully rise to greatness.

What about the 1980's, when they played 30 games without a win until they beat us in 1989...and tore down the goalposts? That was their only win that year (under first year coach Bill Snyder), but they did do much better after that, winning 5 games the next year and never returning to the futility of the 60's, 70's and 80's since. Some here may think we owe them one for helping turn their program around.

Many will point to Kstate conference which does help, but I like to look at someone like South Florida who literally came from less than we did.

Just win baby and lets let the chips fall where they may

I don't know about how much their conference helps; they were really a horrible team for decades. I hate to say it, but it's hard to counter the argument that they started winning by scheduling weak ooc teams and signing disproportionate numbers of JUCO's.

Edited August 23, 2008 by eulessismore

[FirefightnRick]

What about the 1980's, when they played 30 games without a win until they beat us in 1989...and tore down the goalposts?

I'll never forget it.

Rick

[ForneyGreen]

I'll never forget it.

Wasn't that the game that Scott Davis had to make a freaky 50+ yard 4th down throw into the end zone to get us the lead, only to see K-State drive in the last minute to win?

I can't remember who caught that pass in the end zone from Davis, but I remember it was a pretty cool looking play. Scott had a funny hitch to his throwing motion but could really get the ball downfield.

Just another coulda, woulda, shoulda from our I-AA days...

[foutsrouts]

Many will point to Kstate conference which does help, but I like to look at someone like South Florida who literally came from less than we did.

I would hope so, since we have only been playing football EIGHTY-FOUR years longer than South Florida. They barely started fielding a team before the most recent Iraqi War, and we were fielding teams well before WORLD WAR I. Pretty incredible.

[JesseMartin]

Yeah, the USF thing is crazy. When we lost to them at Fouts, it was only like the 2nd home game I'd missed in about 5 years. I couldn't believe we lost to somebody I'd never heard of...but finally felt a teeny bit better about it after the season they had last year.

Though I also agree that we should be a much bigger deal than we are, considering the age of our program.

[FirefightnRick]

Wasn't that the game that Scott Davis had to make a freaky 50+ yard 4th down throw into the end zone to get us the lead, only to see K-State drive in the last minute to win?

I can't remember who caught that pass in the end zone from Davis, but I remember it was a pretty cool looking play. Scott had a funny hitch to his throwing motion but could really get the ball downfield.

Just another coulda, woulda, shoulda from our I-AA days...

Yes, he split two defenders from somewhere around K State's 40 yard line I think it was, for the TD. Then we kicked off and pinned them deep. Then after a couple of plays, including a sack, we had them up against their own goal line with about 1:12 left in the game, and the lead. Then it happened. On third and long, like third and 12? maybe, they throw a long streak down the right sideline, the ball sails 5 feet over both defender and recievers heads and falls incomplete, reciever and defender clicked feet and fell down: PASS INTERFERENCE....FIRST DOWN, K STATE. They then dink dink dink down the field and completed the drive with the winning TD with 12 seconds left on the clock. Sickening.

Rick

Edited August 23, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

K-State got a large cash infusion in the late 80s from a guy who won the lottery. And, they hired from the Iowa coaching tree begun by Hayden Fry. We haven't had either.

What we can do is schedule the way K-State began to schedule under Bill Snyder - winnable home games in September. Yes, that's right. Here I am beating the dead horse again. But, someone brought up K-State and their rise. Since we don't have lottery winners donating and we can't afford to hire a college level coach, we can do Part C and help ourselves out in the scheduling department.

[Quoner]

Yes, he split two defenders from somewhere around K State's 40 yard line I think it was, for the TD. Then we kicked off and pinned them deep. Then after a couple of plays, including a sack, we had them up against their own goal line with about 1:12 left in the game, and the lead. Then it happened. On third and long, like third and 12? maybe, they throw a long streak down the right sideline, the ball sails 5 feet over both defender and recievers heads and falls incomplete, reciever and defender clicked feet and fell down: PASS INTERFERENCE....FIRST DOWN, K STATE. They then dink dink dink down the field and completed the drive with the winning TD with 12 seconds left on the clock. Sickening.

Rick

Were there any crappy Big 8 or Big 12 teams the refs didn't screw us against in the 80s?

Conspiracy!

[greenjoe]

Was this a Darrell Dickey QBed Wildcat team that beat North Texas ? I may have the eras confused, but I've always wondered

GO MEAN GREEN

[GreenBat]

Was this a Darrell Dickey QBed Wildcat team that beat North Texas ? I may have the eras confused, but I've always wondered

GO MEAN GREEN

NO

[OldTimer]

My wife and I were at that game...cause I was a VP at Pratt CC , Ks at that time...received a lot of sunburn...and misery when NT was ranked # 1 nationally at that time to see NT go down to defeat in the last minute. One game we will never forget.

OldTimer

[Zeleny' Orel]

My wife and I were at that game...cause I was a VP at Pratt CC , Ks at that time...received a lot of sunburn...and misery when NT was ranked # 1 nationally at that time to see NT go down to defeat in the last minute. One game we will never forget.

OldTimer

Ranked #1 nationally in what? Never in football!

[emmitt01]

Ranked #1 nationally in what? Never in football!

Troll alert

[greenminer]

Troll alert

After looking through his history of posts, I'm more inclined to believe he just doesn't know and unintentionally sounded that way.

Edited August 25, 2008 by greenminer

[untjim1995]

I choose to believe we can be like them and South Florida etc and hopefully rise to greatness.

Many will point to Kstate conference which does help, but I like to look at someone like South Florida who literally came from less than we did.

It really bothers me when I hear people say that we should just be like these programs if we could start winning. Both K-State and South Florida had the luxury of already being a part of good conferences when they got their programs going in the right direction. With K-State, they literally needed to show their fans that they wanted to get better. It was so easy to get them whipped into a frenzy when they started winning in OOC as they got ready to play their Big 8 rivals. How easy could it be to get your program really growing fast if you always got Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Colorado to come to town when they were all ranked in the Top Ten at various times along the way? So showing success to their fandom was really all that was needed--they had monied alumni who loved their university. Our situation is just so different from them that to compare the two is not really fair. South Florida's situation was similar to Western Kentucky when they got their program rolling. USF was already in CUSA for all sports but football and when they got good they were doing it against teams that had name recognition. The conference realignment bug really hit them at the perfect time, too. The Big East was barely afloat, but continued to be a BCS conference, so getting a presence in Florida and giving those kids the chance to play for BCS bowl games made their situation almost 180 degrees from ours--the only way it could become comparable is if realignment brought UNT to the Big XII (don't hold your breath). South Florida's administration took advantage of their situation to maximize the potential to become what they have become--a very solid program that has big-time potential. This is what UNT leadership could have done back in the late 70s and early 80s. Instead, we went to I-AA and it has been our albatross ever since.

[UNTLifer]

Ranked #1 nationally in what? Never in football!

Yes, in football. Look it up.

[GoodForAnother]

K-State got a large cash infusion in the late 80s from a guy who won the lottery. And, they hired from the Iowa coaching tree begun by Hayden Fry. We haven't had either.

What we can do is schedule the way K-State began to schedule under Bill Snyder - winnable home games in September. Yes, that's right. Here I am beating the dead horse again. But, someone brought up K-State and their rise. Since we don't have lottery winners donating and we can't afford to hire a college level coach, we can do Part C and help ourselves out in the scheduling department.

I'm not sure where you got that info...we did get a $100,000 donation to build AstroTurf in our stadium from a gentleman who won the lottery, but for the most part we financed our early facility improvements under Snyder, which was a massive risk at the time. We borrowed millions of dollars and still could barely afford it. At one point we bounced a check with a construction company and they stopped working for three days. Snyder called a meeting and volunteered to use his own money to pay the company...our AD at the time told him, no, we'll find it...which they did.

The lottery winner donated $100,000 total...a one-time thing. Our biggest donors are usually mega-farmers or engineers or architects. Once Snyder started winning we were able to build further improvements to the stadium using donations from our wealthier donors. But to say we turned our program around because we had one lottery winner is absurd.

[UNTLifer]

Once Snyder started winning we were able to build further improvements to the stadium using donations from our wealthier donors. But to say we turned our program around because we had one lottery winner is absurd.

Change Snyder to Dodge in the post above. Winning solves many issues.

[FirefightnRick]

As I heard it from a couple of our K State staffers here at North Texas, is that in a basic sense, Snyder demanded an increase in pay so that he could retain many of his assistants, or he was threatening to leave, forcing the university to go out and find the money, which they did. I never was told who they got it from. But they got it, allowing him to do what he needed to do to succeed. He then continued with his plan to schedule extremely easy(which also takes a lot of money) which he did.(Western Illinois, NMSU, North Illinois, UNM, Indiana State, Idaho State, Montana, Temple, Western Kentucky etc), to name a few. I remember the critics bashing him in the early 90's for his weak scheduling practices, until Snyder parlayed that into a 9-3 record and a trip to the Cotton Bowl in the Big 12's inaugural season in '96.

So the overall point TFLF was trying to make is fact. Supportive Money and Easier Scheduling was the key to their success, of which North Texas has had neither.

Rick

Edited August 26, 2008 by FirefightnRick