D-rc Article On Stadium (sunday Paper)

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

I understand. I've heard all the arguments. I guess I haven't been a fan long enough to become jaded with the administration.

But it doesn't change the fact that this program will not improve without more cash. And it will take cash from students and donors to get it done.

If the donors aren't willing to put aside their differences with the administration, why should the students pay one single dollar more?

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

If you think showing the stadium plans ONLY to student government people, dorm directors and occasional fatcats....and leaving most of the rest of us in the dark...then that's obviously what you (the Athletic Department) thinks is the best way to do things. But, I think you have no idea how many pissed off alums (who have saved this school in the past--see above examples) you have. And if and when you finally get some funding....and then finally come to the rest of us to help pitch in---I think the amounts you're going to receive aren't going to be what they would have been---had all of us been made a part of this project from the start.

The stadium plans are coming out. They were just completed a couple months ago. The AD has been waiting for school to start so it can be shown to donors and students.

SUMG · August 4, 2008

The stadium plans are coming out. They were just completed a couple months ago. The AD has been waiting for school to start so it can be shown to donors and students.

So you've gotten to see the stadium plans?

Green Dozer · August 4, 2008

The stadium plans are coming out. They were just completed a couple months ago. The AD has been waiting for school to start so it can be shown to donors and students.

You are right, you have not been around long enough to be jaded, and frankly all of us could use a dose of your enthusiasm. There was a virtual model posted on this very board a few years back.....supposedly from plans they had then. Again, why can't they just come out and say where we really, truthfully are in this process? Do we have $10.00 or $10 million? And when the plans do come out, are they going to say where we really are in this process, money wise?

2010 or 2011 in the new stadium? Todd Dodge has been told these dates, why not the rest of us? Guess they would have to shoot us if we knew......secret, TOP SECRET, security clearance needed!

Green Dozer · August 4, 2008

The stadium plans are coming out. They were just completed a couple months ago. The AD has been waiting for school to start so it can be shown to donors and students.

IF THIS IS TRUE, THEN THE DONORS SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOWN THE PLANS THIS PAST SATURDAY NIGHT. OF COURSE, AS HAS BEEN THE CASE THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS, THAT JUST WAS NOT THE TIME. RICK WILL HAVE NEWS REAL SOON, THAT IS THE COMPANY LINE.

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

So you've gotten to see the stadium plans?

No, but SGA leaders have.

DallasGreen · August 4, 2008

Good stuff. I've always wondered when UNT Athletics was going to send me a stadium brochure and committment form asking me to donate money specifically to build a new stadium by 19xx or 2xxx. Never been asked. Still waiting. I'm not a financial guy but all they had to was hold the money in an escrow account; if they decided they couldn't meet the date or simply scraped the idea in favor of a remodeled Fouts with waterless urinals, etc., then send the money back.
Why is getting this project done so damn complicated. If they would simply correct the errors from the past 50+ years, maybe NT could move forward to bigger and better things.

As a point of information, there is a pledge form for athletic facilities that is available both through Development and Athletics. Now that most facilities are in place, all moneys donated with that form even though it is purposely vauge, saying "athletic facilities" will be allocated toward the stadium. However there is not now nor has there ever been nor will there ever will be a method to refund this pledge if the stadium were not to be built. This is just as it is with all gifts to the university. If not built (which I feel is highly unlikely) your gift would go to facilities that can now be built such as a baseball stadium. Understand that as of now all new pledges on this form are allocated specifically toward the stadium. The wording is purposely vauge on advice of legal counsel that this is necessary so that these pledges can count as required "front money" if stadium bonds are to be used as a part of funding the stadium. As the podcast says this is all part of a process that must be followed by a state institution in Texas unless you are UT or A$M.

GoMeanGreen1999 · August 4, 2008

Why is getting this project done so damn complicated. If they would simply correct the errors from the past 50+ years, maybe NT could move forward to bigger and better things.

You are on a roll with your humor. First "The Future" post, now the question of why this thing is so complicated. It is amazingly funny how they just keep us in waiting and they wonder sometimes why the graduates are not more involved.

GoMeanGreen1999 · August 4, 2008

I guess there's a method to the madness...but to me keeping these stadium plans so secretive is beyond ridiculous.
I hate to tell you, but there wouldn't even be UNT football, if it hadn't been for the efforts of some of us alums back in 1982...when Hurley considered dropping football altogether.
Also, if it wasn't for the combined efforts of alums and students in 1994...we would have never met the NCAA attendance requirement and would have still been Division I-AA (or FCS).
If you think showing the stadium plans ONLY to student government people, dorm directors and occasional fatcats....and leaving most of the rest of us in the dark...then that's obviously what you (the Athletic Department) thinks is the best way to do things. But, I think you have no idea how many pissed off alums (who have saved this school in the past--see above examples) you have. And if and when you finally get some funding....and then finally come to the rest of us to help pitch in---I think the amounts you're going to receive aren't going to be what they would have been---had all of us been made a part of this project from the start.
Just my two cents.

This really has become my #1 question these days - I don't get what the idea, theory or reason is why they won't show the people that give and support the program the new plans. If they were smart they would have diagrams, photos and things about the new stadium all over fouts so that when the games are going on, people see it and get excited. As it is now, it is just "we have plans, we are moving forward, we are ect, ect, ect."

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

This really has become my #1 question these days - I don't get what the idea, theory or reason is why they won't show the people that give and support the program the new plans. If they were smart they would have diagrams, photos and things about the new stadium all over fouts so that when the games are going on, people see it and get excited. As it is now, it is just "we have plans, we are moving forward, we are ect, ect, ect."

I agree it is not the best way to do it. All I can say is maybe after the SGA Massacre of 2002, Rick V is a bit hesitant to release the plans.

GoMeanGreen1999 · August 4, 2008

I agree it is not the best way to do it. All I can say is maybe after the SGA Massacre of 2002, Rick V is a bit hesitant to release the plans.

The day you become hesitant to do something that will generate tremendous excitment with your alumni, is quite possibly the day you lose. That is a complete backwards way of doing it, but I guess we here at UNT have done things backwards for 50+ years now, why change right?

forevereagle · August 4, 2008

There are times that I wish Mendoza had stayed. Maybe we would be able to dilute the pool of stadium/student fee talk with some other negative talk.

ADLER · August 4, 2008

I want to know what support we have from alumnae and what we need. In other words, how many donors at certain levels do we need to make our athletic program viable.

Well, this research has already been commissioned by UTSA who did a a comparison of 10 large regional public colleges of the Sun Belt, WAC, and CUSA.

UTSA Athletics Feasibility Study - Fiscal Issues Page

FY 2005 budget Conference USA ($18,378,423) adjusted for inflation, $22,500,000 by FY 2014-2015

Historically, the institutional financial commitment to the sport of football is significant with more than three-fourths of the athletics programs' revenues provided by direct institutional budget support through student fees. Most I-A athletics departments are able to generate less than one-fourth of their total operating revenue from gate receipts, donations, conference distributions and miscellaneous sources such as television, radio, corporate sponsorships and special events.

Using that formula for North Texas in 2015, $16,875,000 should be expected to be derived directly from student service fees, $5,625,000 should be expected to be derived from donations, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, parking, concessions, game guarantees and other outside sources.

Making a commitment to match the average CUSA budgets from those selected regional state colleges will take a substantial contribution from the students and the alumni and a monumental effort from the athletic department.

Truthfully, I believe that it's too ambitious of a plan to match what the other colleges are budgeting by 2015, but I don't see any reason that North Texas cannot be at that level by the 2018-2019 school year.

First: Create a dedicated Student Athletics Fee based on the total amount that the Athletic Department anually receives from the university.

Add $1 per credit hour during the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 school years to cover the institutions cost of financing a stadium bond.

Raise the athletics fee $2 per credit hour during the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 school years until it matches the $20 per credit hour commitments that students at competing institutions have been paying since 2008.

A decade from now North Texas students will still pay less in athletics fees than South Alabama students pay today. South Alabama 2008 Fees, and be very comparable to what many of our competitors are already paying Athletic Fees

It's a long term plan for athletic excellence, and nobody get's an unwieldy athletics fee imposed upon them.

My advice for current students that don't want to pay a $20 per credit hour athletics fee? Try to graduate before 2018.

untphd · August 4, 2008

Well, this research has already been commissioned by UTSA who did a a comparison of 10 large regional public colleges of the Sun Belt, WAC, and CUSA.
UTSA Athletics Feasibility Study - Fiscal Issues Page
FY 2005 budget Conference USA ($18,378,423) adjusted for inflation, $22,500,000 by FY 2014-2015
Using that formula for North Texas in 2015, $16,875,000 should be expected to be derived directly from student service fees, $5,625,000 should be expected to be derived from donations, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, parking, concessions, game guarantees and other outside sources.
Making a commitment to match the average CUSA budgets from those selected regional state colleges will take a substantial contribution from the students and the alumni and a monumental effort from the athletic department.
Truthfully, I believe that it's too ambitious of a plan to match what the other colleges are budgeting by 2015, but I don't see any reason that North Texas cannot be at that level by the 2018-2019 school year.
First: Create a dedicated Student Athletics Fee based on the total amount that the Athletic Department anually receives from the university.
Add $1 per credit hour during the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 school years to cover the institutions cost of financing a stadium bond.
Raise the athletics fee $2 per credit hour during the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 school years until it matches the $20 per credit hour commitments that students at competing institutions have been paying since 2008.
A decade from now North Texas students will still pay less in athletics fees than South Alabama students pay today. South Alabama 2008 Fees, and be very comparable to what many of our competitors are already paying Athletic Fees
It's a long term plan for athletic excellence, and nobody get's an unwieldy athletics fee imposed upon them.
My advice for current students that don't want to pay a $20 per credit hour athletics fee? Try to graduate before 2018.

Thanks for the research. This is helping people understand why we are so behind. Which in turn explains why we have a problem.

Green Dozer · August 4, 2008

Well, this research has already been commissioned by UTSA who did a a comparison of 10 large regional public colleges of the Sun Belt, WAC, and CUSA.
UTSA Athletics Feasibility Study - Fiscal Issues Page
FY 2005 budget Conference USA ($18,378,423) adjusted for inflation, $22,500,000 by FY 2014-2015
Using that formula for North Texas in 2015, $16,875,000 should be expected to be derived directly from student service fees, $5,625,000 should be expected to be derived from donations, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, parking, concessions, game guarantees and other outside sources.
Making a commitment to match the average CUSA budgets from those selected regional state colleges will take a substantial contribution from the students and the alumni and a monumental effort from the athletic department.
Truthfully, I believe that it's too ambitious of a plan to match what the other colleges are budgeting by 2015, but I don't see any reason that North Texas cannot be at that level by the 2018-2019 school year.
First: Create a dedicated Student Athletics Fee based on the total amount that the Athletic Department anually receives from the university.
Add $1 per credit hour during the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 school years to cover the institutions cost of financing a stadium bond.
Raise the athletics fee $2 per credit hour during the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 school years until it matches the $20 per credit hour commitments that students at competing institutions have been paying since 2008.
A decade from now North Texas students will still pay less in athletics fees than South Alabama students pay today. South Alabama 2008 Fees, and be very comparable to what many of our competitors are already paying Athletic Fees
It's a long term plan for athletic excellence, and nobody get's an unwieldy athletics fee imposed upon them.
My advice for current students that don't want to pay a $20 per credit hour athletics fee? Try to graduate before 2018.

Thanks Adler, but I would like to see one titled "UNT ATHLETIC FEASIBILITY STUDY". In all due respect, each university's culture/situation is unique. Ours is certainly no exception. I want a couple of sections written by RV on where our current situation w/ the stadium stands. It is time that we are told what is really going on, and the stakeholders should know. As a side note, I have witnessed your devotion to this university first hand, and so I want to say thank you Jeff.

NT80 · August 4, 2008

The stadium plans are coming out. They were just completed a couple months ago. The AD has been waiting for school to start so it can be shown to donors and students.

The 2008 football media guide has some of the recent new stadium drawings in it on page 16: "the Future of North Texas Football." The description mentions "...a first phase to include seating for approximately 33,000 spectators with the potential to expand to 50,000 in the future." The donor guide "Building Champions One Piece at a Time" also has some of the same drawings. Yes, these are different from the ones a few years ago that had the video with it. A few samples of the new drawings as posted before:

http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1837.jpg

http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1836.jpg

http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1839.jpg

Edited August 4, 2008 by NT80

eulesseagle · August 5, 2008

QUESTION: Does anyone know the exact dollar amount (in dollars or the number of six packs of beer) that the students are going to pay by the semester?

bstnsportsfan3 · August 5, 2008

The 2008 football media guide has some of the recent new stadium drawings in it on page 16: "the Future of North Texas Football." The description mentions "...a first phase to include seating for approximately 33,000 spectators with the potential to expand to 50,000 in the future." The donor guide "Building Champions One Piece at a Time" also has some of the same drawings. Yes, these are different from the ones a few years ago that had the video with it. A few samples of the new drawings as posted before:
http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1837.jpg
http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1836.jpg
http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1839.jpg

any way to tell if these are the real stadium pics? or the old ones....

NT80 · August 5, 2008

any way to tell if these are the real stadium pics? or the old ones....

Oldest: http://www.unt.edu/golfcourseplans/imageas...newsstadium.jpg

Old: http://www.unt.edu/administration/images/f...stadium%203.JPG

New: http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1837.jpg

Old: http://www.unt.edu/administration/images/f...stadium%201.JPG

New: http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1836.jpg

Edited August 5, 2008 by NT80

ADLER · August 5, 2008

Oldest: http://www.unt.edu/golfcourseplans/imageas...newsstadium.jpg
Old: http://www.unt.edu/administration/images/f...stadium%203.JPG
New: http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1837.jpg
Old: http://www.unt.edu/administration/images/f...stadium%201.JPG
New: http://incipientstage.20megsfree.com/images/img_1836.jpg

Both wrong.

Those "old" pictures with all the green glass are from the Sparks agency, a design that was hopefully discarded years ago.

The next set of "new" pictures were concept prints done by F&S Partners prior to summer 2007.

Neither is the final design. The final design was done this past spring by HKS Architecture, but I hope it will be realtively similar to the F&S Partners concept.

NT80 · August 5, 2008

The next set of "new" pictures were concept prints done by F&S Partners prior to summer 2007.
Neither is the final design. The final design was done this past spring by HKS Architecture, but I hope it will be realtively similar to the F&S Partners concept.

The set labeled "new" drawings are in both the just printed media guides and the bound campaign binders. I agree they probably have been tweaked in final architect plans done this spring and may have changed a little but I think the concept is very close to what they and we want.

UNTflyer · August 8, 2008

VERY interesting! If that is the version of the bill that was approved by the SGA, then we don't need a vote to create a dedicated athletics fee.

An update on this...

I have emailed several people over at the AD, SGA, and school administration about this. Nobody has come right out and said "Yes, the 2002 bill authorizes a dedicated athletics fee". But nobody has said it doesn't, either. I was told that our hope is to get a fee increase improved and take the whole package to the legislature. That tells me that yes, the vote in 2002 is good enough to satisfy the state law requirement for student approval f a dedicated athletics fee.

Now, why this was never done before is maddening. A dedicated athletics fee hands the power of increasing the fee over to the BOR, provided the increase does not exceed 10% of the current fee. Anything above 10% requires a student vote. But our current fee structure requires a vote every time.

So, rest easy fans. I don't think we will need to get a new vote for a dedicated athletics fee.