D-rc Article On Stadium (sunday Paper)

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

Just because hiking the student-services fee is the perceived easiest route to bypassing the students doesn't make it best in the long run.

It would still require a student vote, so it doesn't bypass them. I still fail to see how it benefits us at all to go the route of a dedicated athletics fee. Too many hurdles, too many chances for failure.

GoMeanGreen1999 · August 4, 2008

It would still require a student vote, so it doesn't bypass them. I still fail to see how it benefits us at all to go the route of a dedicated athletics fee. Too many hurdles, too many chances for failure.

Don't worry about the dedicated athletics fee - if it fails, there is a backup.

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

Don't worry about the dedicated athletics fee - if it fails, there is a backup.

Yes, but it would be a severe setback for UNT athletics.

GoMeanGreen1999 · August 4, 2008

Yes, but it would be a severe setback for UNT athletics.

Depends on how you look at it. If the backup plan is what I think it is, then it is far better for our University long term. Maybe not in the immediate short term, but definatly the long term. Right now they need to focus on trying to pass it (which for some reason there doesn't seem to be a want or desire from the students to get help from the alumns) and winning ball games.

Edited August 4, 2008 by GoMeanGreen1999

TIgreen01 · August 4, 2008

Lack of leadership? I didn't necessarily get that. She was pretty clear that piggybacking on the student services fee to run at athdept. is penny-ante crap, and that a new athletic's fee was the way to go, not only to help fund a stadium but to budget for athletics yearly. I don't think she's just ready to sit back and watch the students decide our fate in athletics for the next 25 years; there's too much at stake for her legacy as UNT prez. Read again, and she's clear about what she wants and her vision, and now it's up to her to impart that on the student body. Give her a chance to do so.
I think in Vito's deal, she was just truthful about the process, which says she nor other officials can't "institute" a fee without giving the students a voice in the process. I'm sure she was asked something to the effect of, "So, are you considering raising fees to pay for the stadium?" She can't just "raise" the fee herself in some arbitrary, sweeping act. Like it or not, we need a dedicated athletics fee, because it's what every sensible athletic department in the universe uses. You're wrong about the need not being there. Just because hiking the student-services fee is the perceived easiest route to bypassing the students doesn't make it best in the long run. An athletics fee will be more attractive to the private and/or corporate entities needed to come on later or potential suite buyers. I don't know much about bonding a stadium, but a permanent athletics fee strikes me as way more forward-thinking as a means to an end. It's time to do it a different way, and like it or not, the students will have a say. Yeah, it bugs me, but if it passes, we're golden.

Great post! I heard the same thing in her speech, but was confused by what the dedicated athletics fee would be. What I understood that type of fee to be would be something that the BOR could set without need to get approval from students (or really anyone for that matter)....similar to what UT and tamu have. That type of fee would need to be passed by the Texas Legislature to get instuted the FIRST time out, but would be up to the BOR to set beyond that? Is this what we're talking about? If so, why does that need to be voted on by the students first?

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

Great post! I heard the same thing in her speech, but was confused by what the dedicated athletics fee would be. What I understood that type of fee to be would be something that the BOR could set without need to get approval from students (or really anyone for that matter)....similar to what UT and tamu have. That type of fee would need to be passed by the Texas Legislature to get instuted the FIRST time out, but would be up to the BOR to set beyond that? Is this what we're talking about? If so, why does that need to be voted on by the students first?

Whether it can be set by the BOR or not would depend on the wording of the legislation. Usually these things are worded that anything more than 10% would need student approval. That would give the BOR the freedom to raise it $1 a year.

It would need to be approved by the students first because no politician will touch it otherwise.

Edited August 4, 2008 by UNTflyer

Eagle1855 · August 4, 2008

Depends on how you look at it. If the backup plan is what I think it is, then it is far better for our University long term. Maybe not in the immediate short term, but definatly the long term. Right now they need to focus on trying to pass it (which for some reason there doesn't seem to be a want or desire from the students to get help from the alumns) and winning ball games.

Can UNT afford another short term setback?

ADLER · August 4, 2008

Great post! I heard the same thing in her speech, but was confused by what the dedicated athletics fee would be. What I understood that type of fee to be would be something that the BOR could set without need to get approval from students (or really anyone for that matter)....similar to what UT and tamu have. That type of fee would need to be passed by the Texas Legislature to get instuted the FIRST time out, but would be up to the BOR to set beyond that? Is this what we're talking about? If so, why does that need to be voted on by the students first?

A Dedicated Athletics Fee was already approved by the Student Government Association in March 2002 when the last minimal 'emergency increase' for athletics was added to the student service fees.

The SGA further requests that the increase in fees be in effect until a Dedicated Athletics Fee may be proposed and approved in the Texas State Legislature, at which point the increase would be dropped;
The SGA also approves of a Dedicated Fee for Athletics to be enacted upon state legislature approval and requests that the UNT Athletics Department be ineligible for Student Service Fees once a Dedicated Fee has been enacted.

SGA Fees Proposal of March 2002

The problem is that it appears that it was never implemented. Therefore North Texas has not been able to keep pace with athletic spending at competing universities Athletic Fees. Worse yet, unlike the competion, there is no long term structure for continuous improvement.

The only way for North Texas athletics to survive would be to sporadically pop further student service fee increases whenever there was dire situation; NCAA Title IX non-compliance, Fouts Field being declared structurally unsound within the decade, etc.

A Dedicated Fee for Athletics would instantly stop the fees from spontaneously being dumped on students. Fee increases would be structured as far as a decade in advance so that students interested in enrolling at North Texas would have accurate information when comparing universities and could make their selection based on accurate information.

A Dedicated Fee for Athletics would also help the university by alleviating the need for athletics to ask for increased amounts from student services fees to cover expenditures. Those funds are likely required by other departments and it's a shame to see them diverted to athletics.

GoMeanGreen1999 · August 4, 2008

Can UNT afford another short term setback?

Well if the fee doesn't pass, we won't have a choice. The stadium is now on the President's plate and she has what it takes to get it done I believe.

yyz28 · August 4, 2008

Everyone outta just like... Relax.

Wait for information to come out, wait for the vote, let's see what happens.

...have a TINY bit of faith. Not much, just a little...

yyz28 · August 4, 2008

My heart just stopped. Was that optimism?

I know... hard to swallow, isn't it?

The whole program is on such an upswing.

Look at the progress we made offensively last year.

...consider what a TINY bit of defense would have given us last year.

...think about how exciting this year could be, despite the predictions.

...think about how exciting NEXT year could be, ACCORDING to the predictions.

We had a good run in the early 2000's but the program wasn't nearly on the upswing it is today before that run.

We have the leaders saying the right things. Again, let this play out and have a little faith in all the parties involved to do the right thing.

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

A Dedicated Athletics Fee was already approved by the Student Government Association in March 2002 when the last minimal 'emergency increase' for athletics was added to the student service fees.
The problem is that it appears that it was never implemented.

VERY interesting! If that is the version of the bill that was approved by the SGA, then we don't need a vote to create a dedicated athletics fee.

NT80 · August 4, 2008

VERY interesting! If that is the version of the bill that was approved by the SGA, then we don't need a vote to create a dedicated athletics fee.

Can SGA just go back and reference this past vote and just implement it instead of needing a new vote?

Green Dozer · August 4, 2008

Everyone outta just like... Relax.
Wait for information to come out, wait for the vote, let's see what happens.
...have a TINY bit of faith. Not much, just a little...

A lot of us have had a lot of faith for a long time. My question is, why can't RV and Dr. Bataille just be open about everything. This have faith, an announcement is coming soon, keeping it close to the vest, etc. is getting old. Information has been going to come out for years now. Read between the lines, Dodge is not being a company man talking about the stadium. He has evidently been promised a stadium as a reason or stipulation in taking the head coaching job, and he is holding our leadership responsible. He will make it an issue if it is not delivered as promised.

It is time for the leadership (the President and AD specifically) to open up. Have a quarterly meeting, just has been promised and has not been done (Well maybe one or two, I don't recall). Make up some power point slides in black and white, nothing fancy, and lay it all out. Talk about where we have come since UNT first snapped a football to this point. Then, clearly explain where we want to go, and what it will take to get there. I am not just wanting to hear we need to build a stadium. I want to know what the University expects of itself, and its responsibility in getting this project started and completed. I want to know what support we have from alumnae and what we need. In other words, how many donors at certain levels do we need to make our athletic program viable. Are there really any big money alumnae? If so, how committed are they? How much money do we have today, at this moment, for this project. So the students vote in favor of a fee, whichever fee that might be, then what? I donate, buy season tix to fb and bb, attend the games, etc. I do not think asking for an open, honest explanation is to much to ask. I would rather have the truth than a cooler or travel bag.

How about the truth? Yes, we can handle the truth. We just may not like it.

yyz28 · August 4, 2008

A lot of us have had a lot of faith for a long time...
...I want to know what the University expects of itself, and its responsibility in getting this project started and completed. I want to know what support we have from alumnae and what we need. In other words, how many donors at certain levels do we need to make our athletic program viable. Are there really any big money alumnae? If so, how committed are they? How much money do we have today, at this moment, for this project. So the students vote in favor of a fee, whichever fee that might be, then what? I donate, buy season tix to fb and bb, attend the games, etc. I do not think asking for an open, honest explanation is to much to ask. I would rather have the truth than a cooler or travel bag.
How about the truth? Yes, we can handle the truth. We just may not like it.

I've been right there with you, but I think all I'm asking for is a little patience. We're very close to getting some information in black and white according to RV and his interview with the Barbershop Podcast, and we're working on a student vote to get us where we need to be on that front.

I KNOW we all have been waiting for a huge amount of time - ALL OF US HAVE - but all indications are that things are moving forward and in the right direction.

Let's let the events we KNOW are going to unfold do so, and see how they turn out...

...if they turn out bad, THEN we can jump up and down, and put our collective feet in the rear ends of our AD, the President and the SGA. Until then, we would all have less stress and better blood pressure if we simply wait and let it play out.

I love you guys...

GreenMachine · August 4, 2008

Can SGA just go back and reference this past vote and just implement it instead of needing a new vote?

that's exactly what I was thinking, its already been voted on and approved by the SGA. Is there a time limit on these things being implemented before it expires or does it even expire at all?

Edited August 4, 2008 by GreenMachine

TIgreen01 · August 4, 2008

A Dedicated Athletics Fee was already approved by the Student Government Association in March 2002 when the last minimal 'emergency increase' for athletics was added to the student service fees.
SGA Fees Proposal of March 2002
The problem is that it appears that it was never implemented. Therefore North Texas has not been able to keep pace with athletic spending at competing universities Athletic Fees. Worse yet, unlike the competion, there is no long term structure for continuous improvement.
The only way for North Texas athletics to survive would be to sporadically pop further student service fee increases whenever there was dire situation; NCAA Title IX non-compliance, Fouts Field being declared structurally unsound within the decade, etc.
A Dedicated Fee for Athletics would instantly stop the fees from spontaneously being dumped on students. Fee increases would be structured as far as a decade in advance so that students interested in enrolling at North Texas would have accurate information when comparing universities and could make their selection based on accurate information.
A Dedicated Fee for Athletics would also help the university by alleviating the need for athletics to ask for increased amounts from student services fees to cover expenditures. Those funds are likely required by other departments and it's a shame to see them diverted to athletics.

That is some very good web searching, sir! Can we safely assume that the leadership has forgotten this little tid-bit (since Flyer sounds connected and is shocked by this discovery)?...can't be. Who takes the next step in getting this acted on? Chancellor or SGA??

greenminer · August 4, 2008

I know... hard to swallow, isn't it?
The whole program is on such an upswing.
Look at the progress we made offensively last year.
...consider what a TINY bit of defense would have given us last year.
...think about how exciting this year could be, despite the predictions.
...think about how exciting NEXT year could be, ACCORDING to the predictions.
We had a good run in the early 2000's but the program wasn't nearly on the upswing it is today before that run.
We have the leaders saying the right things. Again, let this play out and have a little faith in all the parties involved to do the right thing.

Football swings and stats are not the way to go. Remember, we're trying to convince a crowd that by and large is very ignorant and apathetic towards athletics. Most of these people never went to a game last year, or the year before, etc...

We'll probably get the "yes" from anybody that was a fan during the championship years, but that is not who we have to sway.

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

That is some very good web searching, sir! Can we safely assume that the leadership has forgotten this little tid-bit (since Flyer sounds connected and is shocked by this discovery)?...can't be. Who takes the next step in getting this acted on? Chancellor or SGA??

I'm very shocked. The wheels are turning on the possibilities. If this bill is valid and is the version that passed, and I believe it is, then a student vote may be avoided altogether.

Let me get with Jeff and find out.

FirefightnRick · August 4, 2008

First off, you're throwing down a hollow gauntlet. I think I can speak for Adler when I say that paying "$600 a year" is something that he is not only willing to do...but already does. If $600 is what each student is being asked to do then I already have them beat by a couple hundred bucks and haven't even begun to budget for tailgating, travel to away games, etc. Let's not forget, also, that you're calling to task a guy who (along with several others on this board) used to feed several hundred students a game out of his own pocket just to get them out there to tailgate. Adler didn't have to do that, he wanted to.
So, no, the question isn't whether or not the alums are willing to put their money where their mouth is...we've been doing it for years! Now let's see if our administration is willing to make everybody involved in NT athletics, students included, "pony up."

No need really for me to post this, since you beat me to it, but I'm going to anyways. ADLER has given a hell of a lot more than just that amount, and has done so for many many years. And Huff is one of the donors that was contacted by our university and IS currently participating in the stadium campiagn and I could go on and on with this. I'm not wanting to jump down anyone's throat by reminding some here to remember their manners with regard to respect for who your posting at. But I simply want to remind some here, especially the new folks, that we have right here on this board people that have been long time stockholders in this company who have made it possible for the rest of us to have what we have already. Their oppinions and concerns are what matters most to me as they should also matter most to this university as well. It doesn't mean they are alway's right or wrong, but they have the most right to say in my oppinion. To see them continue to be asked over and over and over again to LEAVE YOUR MONEY THEN GO AWAY by this university without being pulled into the loop is atrocious and in all honesty it's getting very old and counterproductive for our school to meets this new goal. I already know of $4,000 being witheld from this program by long time donors for this upcoming season due to frustration with the program. The sad part is, most of it is simply due to a lack of communication. A simple phone call and acting upon a simple gesture would be all it would take.

One member of advisory of the athletic council stated to me that the way these things are usually handled is that you get 80% of the funding from 20% of your target donors, then once that is reached you get the remaining 20% of the funding from the other 80% of your target donors. I simply hope there's an 80% of the target donors left?

Carry on.

Rick

meangreen-mba · August 4, 2008

No need really for me to post this, since you beat me to it, but I'm going to anyways. ADLER has given a hell of a lot more than just that amount, and has done so for many many years. And Huff is one of the donors that was contacted by our university and IS currently participating in the stadium campiagn and I could go on and on with this. I'm not wanting to jump down anyone's throat by reminding some here to remember their manners with regard to respect for who your posting at. But I simply want to remind some here, especially the new folks, that we have right here on this board people that have been long time stockholders in this company who have made it possible for the rest of us to have what we have already. Their oppinions and concerns are what matters most to me as they should also matter most to this university as well. It doesn't mean they are alway's right or wrong, but they have the most right to say in my oppinion. To see them continue to be asked over and over and over again to LEAVE YOUR MONEY THEN GO AWAY by this university without being pulled into the loop is atrocious and in all honesty it's getting very old and counterproductive for our school to meets this new goal. I already know of $4,000 being witheld from this program by long time donors for this upcoming season due to frustration with the program. The sad part is, most of it is simply due to a lack of communication. A simple phone call and acting upon a simple gesture would be all it would take.
One member of advisory of the athletic council stated to me that the way these things are usually handled is that you get 80% of the funding from 20% of your target donors, then once that is reached you get the remaining 20% of the funding from the other 80% of your target donors. I simply hope there's an 80% of the target donors left?
Carry on.
Rick

You know, I'm no BIG donator, but give what I can. I am a MGC member with season tickets for FB and BB. I get my free gift each year. With this, I agree that we need to be better informed by the administration. However, being new to this board, I wonder how many on this board are gripping to the chior? Why post here, and not in the Pres or AD mailbox? I have a feeling that if they got this much grief from alumni, they would have to respond publically. Why would they care what is posted on a forum that I doubt they even read. I can totally agree we need a new stadium, and with the student population, there is no reason they cannot raise the $$$$$ How did Florida Atlantic finance their new home? 200K alumni (in the area), 35K students. Let's look at it this way. There are 235K people including current students and alumni in the DFW area alone. If each of these people were assessed, or donated $100/yr, that would be 23.5M/yrs for athletics alone. That is not a huge amount to add to student fees, or to ask from alumni. We could pay for the stadium in 3 yrs; a really nice stadium. Has anybody looked at it that way? Break it down to it's simplest form.

DeepGreen · August 4, 2008

In other words, how many donors at certain levels do we need to make our athletic program viable. Are there really any big money alumnae? If so, how committed are they? How much money do we have today, at this moment, for this project. So the students vote in favor of a fee, whichever fee that might be, then what? I donate, buy season tix to fb and bb, attend the games, etc. I do not think asking for an open, honest explanation is to much to ask. I would rather have the truth than a cooler or travel bag.

Good stuff. I've always wondered when UNT Athletics was going to send me a stadium brochure and committment form asking me to donate money specifically to build a new stadium by 19xx or 2xxx. Never been asked. Still waiting. I'm not a financial guy but all they had to was hold the money in an escrow account; if they decided they couldn't meet the date or simply scraped the idea in favor of a remodeled Fouts with waterless urinals, etc., then send the money back.

Why is getting this project done so damn complicated. If they would simply correct the errors from the past 50+ years, maybe NT could move forward to bigger and better things.

UNTflyer · August 4, 2008

Rick,

I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to anyone on here. I don't know Adler or his giving level, and I wasn't questioning his commitment to NT athletics. I was simply asking that if he is going to demand that students pay three times what they are paying now, will we see some increase from donors as well?

Now, some already give what they can. If I weren't still in college, I'd probably pay more (I pay the fee AND a MGC donation for Section E tickets). But those who have held back because of frustrations with the AD or personal beefs with Mandy... it's time to reconsider and join with the students.

Green Mean · August 4, 2008

Rick,
I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to anyone on here. I don't know Adler or his giving level, and I wasn't questioning his commitment to NT athletics. I was simply asking that if he is going to demand that students pay three times what they are paying now, will we see some increase from donors as well?
Now, some already give what they can. If I weren't still in college, I'd probably pay more (I pay the fee AND a MGC donation for Section E tickets). But those who have held back because of frustrations with the AD or personal beefs with Mandy... it's time to reconsider and join with the students.

Flyer,

I have agreed with you in just about all points regarding the stadium but how will the MGC and etc be able to give more of they are not informed? From the oldest alums on this board I have read that stadium talk has been going on forever...or the administration of this university doesnt have a two rats about athletics....or that the leadership of this university sucks....If you arent going to give the donors a reason to donate, you cannot expect them to just give a check without knowing what they are giving it for. School pride is all well and good but its still coming out of your pocket. Again I am not vindicating you by any means but I am just simply stating that if the administration and leadership is half ass then you will probably see those things effecting all of the other levels below them.

SUMG · August 4, 2008

I guess there's a method to the madness...but to me keeping these stadium plans so secretive is beyond ridiculous.

I hate to tell you, but there wouldn't even be UNT football, if it hadn't been for the efforts of some of us alums back in 1982...when Hurley considered dropping football altogether.

Also, if it wasn't for the combined efforts of alums and students in 1994...we would have never met the NCAA attendance requirement and would have still been Division I-AA (or FCS).

If you think showing the stadium plans ONLY to student government people, dorm directors and occasional fatcats....and leaving most of the rest of us in the dark...then that's obviously what you (the Athletic Department) thinks is the best way to do things. But, I think you have no idea how many pissed off alums (who have saved this school in the past--see above examples) you have. And if and when you finally get some funding....and then finally come to the rest of us to help pitch in---I think the amounts you're going to receive aren't going to be what they would have been---had all of us been made a part of this project from the start.

Just my two cents.