The Arguments Against The Arguments Against The Stadium

[UNTflyer]

I'd like to take this chance to counter some of the common arguments against the new stadium. We very much appreciate all comments from fellow students. This forum welcomes all input.

"What's wrong with our current stadium?"

It's horrible. The locker rooms are subpar, the stadium design is antiquated, the seating capacity is too small for a school of our size, and it really prevents us from getting good teams to play in Denton.

Also, we need the land for further school growth. The Master Plan has always included a new stadium to accommodate the growth of UNT. We need more academic buildings, more dorms, and more parking.

"Our football team sucks"

Well, I would say that's never really a good reason to remain in poor facilities. Our team is comprised of amateur athletes who are here to get an education. Did you oppose the girl's softball stadium when they were doing poorly? We need better facilities in order to draw better players. We had a very good team from 2001-2004, but recruiting fell off for a few years. Coach Dodge will get us back in competition, and a new stadium will only help.

"We can't even fill our current stadium"

True (sort of). We have had respectable attendance in recent games:

Fouts capacity (30.500)

TCU (2001): 22,837

Baylor (2003): 29,437

Tulsa (2005): 23, 112

SMU (2006): 25,231

Navy (2007): 26, 012

Yeah, we have trouble packing the stands when we play Florida International or Louisiana-Monroe, but so do most Div-I schools. The Miami Hurricanes couldn't even sell out against FIU, and both teams are in Miami. But a new stadium will bring new fans, better out-of-conference opponents, and hopefully an invitation to a new conference. We will NOT get invited to a new conference if we stay in Fouts.

"We can't afford the fee increase"

There isn't a set number for a fee increase at this time. I have heard some numbers thrown around, and I think they are quite reasonable. There also is not yet a time frame to begin the fee - it may start right away, it may start after the stadium is built. But we need to provide the funding in order to build the stadium and improve the team. An improved team will bring in more alumni and MGC donations, and more revenue from corporate sponsors and advertising which will offset future increases.

"I don't like sports. Why should I pay for this?"

There are lots of facilities to which all students contribute in fees. The library, the science buildings, the bus system, the music hall, the rec center... Fees go towards improving the university and making the college experience good for all of us, no matter what our personal tastes or ambitions.

Plus, the stadium will touch almost every school on campus. The SMHM will help with interior decorating and concessions. The new school of journalism and the RFTV will have better facilities to get hands-on experience covering football games. The Mean Green Brigade will have a better section to perform in and music festivals are also a possibilty - a big plus for our esteemed School of Music.

Finally, right or wrong... sports is the public face of the university. It brings us good press and helps to put a spotlight on our other strengths as a university.

I hope this helps those who are "on the fence" on this issue. Our athletics program is at a crossroads . We have a chance to lead our school into a bright future.

[NT80]

Good answers.

I think the students should also be shown what they will be investing in .... ie. the artist renderings of the proposed stadium to help communicate how it will be a new landmark building for UNT instead of that 1952-era image they get passing Fouts.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Good post, Flyer.

[Zeke]

For the "we can't fill the one we've got" argument - a picture from the top of the endzone seats should be shown. Fouts may seat 30K but the endzones seats simply will not be filled on a consistent basis.

[SUMG]

Finally, right or wrong... sports is the public face of the university. It brings us good press and helps to put a spotlight on our other strengths as a university.

I think all of your answers are great. I would just suggest one addition: Since sports is the public face of the university....success in Athletics, indirectly increases the value of ones' degree. They may not realize that now, but they will when they get out into "the real world".

[Censored by Laurie]

"Fees go towards improving the university and making the college experience good for all of us, no matter what our personal tastes or ambitions."

Flyer...did you really just write this? Always glad to see someone showing concern for the community

[mad dog]

I've also had the following conversation:

Me: The best way to increase the university's profile in the public eye is to better our athletics program.

Student opposing stadium: What are you talking about? I don't care a thing about football.

Me: Ok, even if you don't care about football, you know who might? The person who is interviewing you for your next job. And if North Texas has just beaten Kansas State at home in a brand new stadium, he might have an entirely different image of the school on your degree.

[MDH]

Those attedance numbers as well as our travel costs give me all the more reason to want a new SWC

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Good post and good answers, Flyer!

[Baby Arm!]

I would add that Fouts was built in 1952 (not sure of the exact date), and it's obsolete and antiqated and it's location along I-35 makes it the most visable structure on the UNT campus. Thousands pass by it everyday and having such an obsolete and antiquated facility creates a poor public image of the university. Poor public image = lessened value of your degree

[Green Mean]

I think you will always have your opposition in just about everything. The key is building a network that is positive and for the stadium. Flyers Facebook page is a great way to network and get people on board and educated about the whole situation.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Those attedance numbers as well as our travel costs give me all the more reason to want a new SWC

Hear!! Hear!! I realize that it's first things first but if we want to maintain a 25,000 average or better we need to be playing SMU, TCU, Houston, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP, etc. on a regular basis. A more regional conference should help Tulane, Memphis, and Southern Miss on travel costs and possibly attendance as well.

[ADLER]

I think the students that are opposed to a stadium fee have a legitimate point. Many of them aren't sports fans and many will not attend football games no matter how nice the stadium. It's not going to stop them from contributing because even the most critical of them knows that the reason that the fee is being raised is because the it has been far too low for too long and North Texas has been unable to build facilities or comply with NCAA regulations (Title IX in 2002) without tacking on a small increase.

That is exactly why the Student Government Association should look closely at how they structure this fee.

Here is my suggestion for what may be the best format for raising the fee.

$1 per credit hour incerase in 2008-2009

$1 per credit hour incerase in 2009-2010

$1 per credit hour incerase in 2010-2011

$1 per credit hour incerase in 2011-2012

then a year without any increase

$2 per credit hour incerase in 2013-2014

$2 per credit hour incerase in 2014-2015

$2 per credit hour incerase in 2015-2016

$2 per credit hour incerase in 2016-2017

Now I can hear all of you saying "Hey, wait Adler, you're wanting to impose the higher parts of the fee on people that aren't even at North Texas yet. Those 2016-2017 incoming Freshmen are just starting fourth grade his year. You're not being fair to them."

That is where you are wrong.

A small increase is needed right now, there's no debating it and it is going to happen because a new stadium is needed. The current stadium is a dilapidated structure built in 1952 that has a history of structural problems. The property where the current stadium resides is required for academic purposes and the future Interstate-35 expansion is going to be too close to the current structure.

Many of the other colleges in the Sun Belt, schools that North Texas is desperately trying to outperform, already have student athletic fees in the $200 - $300 range per semester. A couple of other large Texas colleges that desire a national presence have also raised their athletic fees to be $240 - $300 per semester by 2012. North Texas needs to be in a position to be able to meet these challenges or it will potentially keep being passed over in any future conference realignments.

But to impose a larger fee, one equal to what other 'emerging national schools' pay, one that would substantially improve athletics, one that could result in more attractive conferences, on current students would be wrong. It would be like raising someone's car payments after they have already started to pay for their vehicle.

New students in 2013 and subsequent years would be selecting their college fully aware of all fees . If the fees make North Texas a more costly option than another college (very highly unlikely, but I had to say it) then that will be a factor in their decision.

What would be unfair is to wait until 2013 or 2014 and then spring another 'necessary, fee on unsuspecting students. We all know that an adjustment will be necessary. Like buying a car, "The price on the sticker is what you pay" is the most honest way to help prospective students forecast their college costs.

And all North texas would be doing is raising 2016 athletic fees to what many other students are already paying.

Edited July 30, 2008 by ADLER

[meangreendork]

I think the students that are opposed to a stadium fee have a legitimate point. Many of them aren't sports fans and many will not attend football games no matter how nice the stadium. It's not going to stop them from contributing because even the most critical of them knows that the reason that the fee is being raised is because the it has been far too low for too long and North Texas has been unable to build facilities or comply with NCAA regulations (Title IX in 2002) without tacking on a small increase.

That is exactly why the Student Government Association should look closely at how they structure this fee.

Here is my suggestion for what may be the best format for raising the fee.

That's a sound plan, and it's not a suddenly huge +$100 fee.

Here's the other thing, and I think we all agree on this, that the stadium is worthless without the product in the stadium. We have the other facilities that we need to have a successful team, I figure that once the team starts to show more progress, more money will come back in and people will want to see the games or at least know about them./

[UNTflyer]

Any fee increase should not go in effect until the first year after the stadium is built.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Any fee increase should not go in effect until the first year after the stadium is built.

Flyer can you tell me - will the student fee pay for the entire stadium, or half of it?

[UNTflyer]

Flyer can you tell me - will the student fee pay for the entire stadium, or half of it?

I don't know that. All I have heard, mostly from here, is that the students would pay half and the other half would come from donors and a sponsor.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I don't know that. All I have heard, mostly from here, is that the students would pay half and the other half would come from donors and a sponsor.

alright - how about this - if the students pass the fee, will the contruction start very soon after? or will we still need to raise more money before it starts?

[UNTflyer]

alright - how about this - if the students pass the fee, will the contruction start very soon after? or will we still need to raise more money before it starts?

I don't know that either. I do know that UCF didn't officially announce their sponsor until after construction started. To open in 2010, I think the stadium would need to break ground by July 1, 2009.

[SilverEagle]

I don't know that either. I do know that UCF didn't officially announce their sponsor until after construction started. To open in 2010, I think the stadium would need to break ground by July 1, 2009.

That sounds about right.

Does anyone know how long it took SMU to build their new stadium? Part of the process for them was tearing down some (or all) of the old stadium and building on an old (totally land locked) site.

Our construction site is easy to get to, and most of the prep work is just dirt work.

[UNTLifer]

Here is a very pragmatic suggestion from one of the students on the facebook group:

(we can pause a moment for some of you to look up pragmatic in the dictionary if needed)

I have to disagree, especially with this point:

Let's face it we are currently a mediocre football team and the stadium we have right now barely fills up half way.

The stadium doesn't fill up because 10,500 of the seats, the endzones, are terrible. I would have a hard time sitting there even if they were free. Yes, currently the team is mediocre, but mediocre facilities won't attract top-flight recruits, although Dodge has greatly improved our recruiting. Also, mediocre facilities will not attract name opponents, networks to televise our games and bigger conferences to come calling.

Let's put this in an academic perspective. We want to have a great Engineering School. Would that happen with mediocre faculty, staff and facilities? Would mediocre academic facilities attract top flight students? Didn't think so.

[Stan R]

Great Point Lifer.. We (we being students and alumni and fans alike) just need to ask ourselves one simple question. Do we want our athletic programs and specifically football to succeed at the D1 level? If the answer is yes then we must vote yes for this fee and as alumni we must buy season tickets, join the MGC and do whatever it takes. It really has nothing to do with how "good" this current team is. Like FFRick always says - I don't think about how "good" my kids are before I feed them or save for their futures. I do that because they are my kids. I support this school because it is my alma mater, I spend 4 *cough* 5 years there and I want the school to succeed.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

That sounds about right.

Does anyone know how long it took SMU to build their new stadium? Part of the process for them was tearing down some (or all) of the old stadium and building on an old (totally land locked) site.

Our construction site is easy to get to, and most of the prep work is just dirt work.

I could be wrong, but if I remember right, SMU tore down their stadium and didn't start construction for about a year. I believe they played 3 seasons in the Cotton Bowl before they moved into their new stadium.