Unt's Dodge Pushes For New Stadium In 2010

DallasGreen · July 23, 2008

We can talk all day about how there are other facets of the school that are worthy of attention besides athletics. I agree that you can be attached to your graduating department, your school organization, or even your old dorm.
But you are exactly right that Athletics is in a class by itself. There's is simply no other department, organzation, or club that generates as much passion post-graduation like athletics, specifically football. It isn't even close. Until I see the music program, or the school of education, or even my beloved MPA program generate 20,000 fans, who give up entire Saturdays, donate hundreds of dollars, AND spread the good word, I will be fully convinced that Athletics is at the top of the list.
Show me a message board for another UNT interest that gets half or even a quarter of the traffic of gmg.com. Show me another interest where you are literally cheering for your school. Show me another interest that competitively weighs itself against opposing schools, and does so in a format that the masses take seriously. The first person to show me another UNT interest which matches these criteria I'll award a six pack in September.
But the fact is, it just can't be done. Athletics isn't just an outlet for school passion. It generates passion. It also happens to generate publicity and dollars on a scale that other interests can only dream about. It isn't just a window through which our university is viewed, it is THE window.
Me: "Hey, did you hear that our MPA program is ranked 9th in the country?"
Joe on the street: "Ok."
Me: "Hey, do you know we have the premier music program in the country?"
Jane on the street: "Yeah, I think I heard about that."
Me: "Hey, did you hear that North Texas beat Oklahoma last week?"
Jordan on the street: "Man, I sure did. I can't believe it. Did you know that I actually graduated from North Texas?"
Me: "Cool. You should get season tickets!"
Jordan on the street: "You're totally right. And, as it turns out, I also happen to be an anonymous billionaire who is really looking for a place to donate this pesky $10 million that's been cluttering up my bank account."
Exaggerations aside, THIS is how you build interest. Even if you don't care a thing about sports, you can't help but hear about it. Whether it be around the water cooler, or sports radio, or the local news, a committment to athletics pays dividends that can't be matched anywhere else in the university.
I'll close with this: if you could place $30 million dollars anywhere in the university, where could you best leverage that to eliminate apathy, generate school interest, attract a higher quality of student, and improve alumni donations? Anyone?

There was an ad in Sunday's DMN thanking Boone Pickens for leading the way at OSU with his $100 million gifts to athletics which has now been parlayed with donors who have stepped forward because of it and donated another $68 million to other depts. @ OSU. Remember OSU was taken to the wood shed at Troy last year, but a billionaire knew that athletics were the key to getting publicity for OSU. The President of OSU even said it made his job easier for he could now challenge other potential donors to step up after Mr. Picken's landmark gift. Are you listening RV, Gretchen, Greg McQueen???? There is the lesson of committment here just as there was with SMU toward Ford Stadium and June Jones. You MUST TAKE A CHANCE or you will not accomplish, but the rewards can be oh so great. The contributions gained by one man's committment equal almost as much as UNT's total endowment, but it also took the leadership of a President who was committed to the total university's future and not to just a few yes men on the faculty. Tenure be damned-- Give us a D-1 Athletic Budget and get committed Gretchen!!!!

greenminer · July 23, 2008

Can anyone with an extra 10 million claim it is NOT pesky? ANYONE? ANYONE?!?!??!

I rest my case. Not a single exaggeration to apologize for, Illuvious.

the real grad88 · July 23, 2008

Yes I have given for at least five years directly to athletic facilities, and sent in my final contribution today to such until I see evidence of a committment from the top. Gretchen should put up at least a thousand dollars of her personal funds as a gesture to show she believes in this and wants to see it done now. If the students turn down a fee increase then they will have collectively said I don't give a rat's about my degree or I'm just a commuter parasite only in school because I'm incapable of making it in the real world. All those who talk of a great MUSIC school, tell me when a music concert has drawn the 15 to 20K people that FB does? One season of FB is probably seen by as many spectators as have ever witnessed all the music school performances in the history of the school. I do agree that the message Dodge is sending is similar to that of June Jones, and he is saying walk the walk or I am walking the premises. UNT will never be considered politically or perceived by the general public as an upper tier research university in Texas without a competitive athletic program that changes the perception of a commuter community college for teachers and musicians, whose student body is generally made up of degenerate weirdos with numerous body piercings and "non-traditional, apathetic, uninspired" hippie throwbacks.

Dallas Green, how can anyone argue with your logic? You are right on. Athletics is the only thing that can change the perception of UNT toward its full potential. But, you did miss my point in terms of a donor giving to make the stadium happen. I was speaking of a BIG donor who put his (or the company) name on the stadium and makes this project go forward. Now is the not the optimum time to get that kind of donor. All of our smaller donations and season tickets are wonderful, but none of us do so because of image or anything else. Big Donors often give to make a statement. IMHO, the sentiment is not there right now for that kind of Big Daddy donor to come forward. Maybe a couple of years from now, when we put all this economic mess behind us. I hope I am wrong, but don't think I am.

DallasGreen · July 23, 2008

You know Jim, I was afraid that you might make some vague generic post, where no one clearly understood where you might stand on the subject.
And while I'll ignore the "parasite" comment (since I was a commuter myself), I will tend to agree with you about the general slacker mentality of a noticable portion of the student body.
However, to put it in terms of parenting, a child grows up a slacker only because their parents do not set standards, and consistently stand behind (and enforce) those standards.
The North Texas administration has traditionally been slack (and inconsistent) in their attitudes about athletics. When they did start taking bold action during the Hayden Fry days, they quickly retreated after he left. You've privately told a story that illustrates that attitude regarding our first 1-AA play-off game. And how it should have had a much different outcome, were it not for a lack of nerve and vision on the part of administrators.
Care to share the story in print?

In 1983 after we had been demoted to 1-AA, we won the SLC championship and a trip to the playoffs. Our initial opponent was to be Nevada-Reno. We were seeded higher and had first option to host the game, but we had to make a minimal guarantee of something like 10,000 or less fans to host the game. NCAA paid all travel for playoff teams so there was no additional cost involved. Fred McCain and Walt Parker in their infinite wisdom decided not to make the guarantee and instead let Nevada host, not wanting to take any chance whatsoever on a home crowd. The 1983 team was not that far removed from having D-1 players and had a top notch coach in a young Corky Nelson just off Grant Teaff's staff as DC @ BU. North Texas was easily at least two TDs better than Nevada on paper. Not knowing at the time if I would ever again have the opportunity to see my alma mater compete for a national championship (even though a diluted 1-AA championship), I shelled out the bucks to fly out and see us play. Our kids were ready, and we had a good game plan. What we didn't count on was a blizzard reminiscent of the Cowboys' Ice Bowl a few years earlier. In conditions where it rained the day before, began to snow on the mud at gametime, and by halftime froze not only the playing surface but the stands as well, we still managed a tie in regulation. Remember the UNR kids played in the Big Sky Conference and were used to the winter elements in Montana, Idaho,etc. Our kids, though easily the best team on the field, had never, ever played in such conditions. Our best receiver was so sick he threw up the entire halftime, and still came out and had a credible second half. We won the toss in O/T and marched to within a couple of yards of the goal line before UNR held. On fourth from the two having confidence in our offense and knowing we had the defense to keep UNR out of the end zone on the ensuing possession, we went for it and the probable win. A hole opened so wide that QB, Greg Carter, could have walked over the goal line, but his read (as he had been coached) was when the linebacker comes, pitch to the tailback. The only caveat is you don't do this in blizzard conditions. Greg did as coached and pitched to the tailback--- who promptly fumbled, and we lost the opportunity to score an almost certain playoff win. UNR had one of the Zendehaus brothers as their kicker ( later to be an NFL player). They never ran a play, just lined up and kicked a 30 yard field goal and zap--we were gone from the playoffs. Lesson to be learned--if we had just taken that miniscule risk of drawing a minimum crowd at home, we would have stood a chance of going all the way as this was one of our best 1-AA teams. WHY HAVE WE ALWAYS BEEN AFRAID TO TAKE A CHANCE AND SHOW OUR PLAYERS THAT WE HAVE CONFIDENCE AND ARE COMMITTED TO GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO WIN? Gretchen, McQueen , anyone have any answer????

SilverEagle · July 25, 2008

Thanks,

So while you seem very angry with apathetic and unappreciative students. You have clearly given a great example of the other problem.......the North Texas leadership........or the lack thereof.

LoveMG · July 26, 2008

UNT coach Todd Dodge reiterated Monday his hope and desire to be in a new stadium no later than 2010.
"I've been told we'd open in 2010," Dodge said. "That's when I'm holding them to it. For this program to go where it needs to go, we've got to get a new stadium."

dodge should hold rv and the regents to it if that is what was promised to him. i would not be surprised if a new stadium was a condition of his employment.

Greigns · July 26, 2008

I actually got a chance to sit down with RV (his door open to anyone who wants to talk about how to promote UNT Football btw) and a few friends/coworkers a few days ago and he's got me convinced that this thing is really going to happen for 2010. I could be naive, but I know the department I work with will be hugely behind this in a grassroots sense. He's got some really cool ideas that will make this have a demonstrable impact on the University's academic reputation above and beyond the name recognition that it will inevitably bring. I think that will be a big selling point to those students who are less interested in sports. I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much, but it's getting tough at this point.

UNTflyer · July 26, 2008

He's got some really cool ideas that will make this have a demonstrable impact on the University's academic reputation above and beyond the name recognition that it will inevitably bring. I think that will be a big selling point to those students who are less interested in sports. I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much, but it's getting tough at this point.

Interesting. I'm eager to hear what they are.

NT91 · July 26, 2008

I did not know his...

"In fact, a little trivia here: the very first football game played at Texas Stadium in 1971 was not a Cowboys game. Rather, it was a North Texas State game. Would Todd Dodge dare schedule his alma mater for the first college football game at the new Cowboy stadium."

Greigns · July 26, 2008

Interesting. I'm eager to hear what they are.

The first one is something he mentioned at the athletics luncheon thing during Parent Orientation. Essentially, he is going to have the SMHM department (particularly interior design students) work on doing the interior decorating for the stadium. He will also be giving hospitality students chances to help with running the concessions as a sort of practicum. One other big part of it is that they are working to make the stadium especially "Green" (using solar energy, using all recyclable products, there was also something about a special kind of parking lot that allows grass to grow up through it, I didn't really understand how it would work but it sounded cool). This may not seem like a big deal, but UNT is really developing a reputation for environmentalism which will get our name in newspapers and magazines. He said he's got a few other ideas too, but those are enough to get some wider support among students.

UNTflyer · July 26, 2008

That's great. He will win the SMHM students over with that one.

NT80 · July 26, 2008

I did not know his...
"In fact, a little trivia here: the very first football game played at Texas Stadium in 1971 was not a Cowboys game. Rather, it was a North Texas State game. Would Todd Dodge dare schedule his alma mater for the first college football game at the new Cowboy stadium."

Um, no. The first game at Texas Stadium was to be NTSU vs BYU but the stadium wasn't ready on time. NTSU instead played BYU in the Cotton Bowl. I believe the first game at Texas Stadium was a smaller college game I think involving Texas Southern or some school like that. NTSU played Louisville a month later at Texas Stadium.

greenagain · July 27, 2008

The first one is something he mentioned at the athletics luncheon thing during Parent Orientation. Essentially, he is going to have the SMHM department (particularly interior design students) work on doing the interior decorating for the stadium. He will also be giving hospitality students chances to help with running the concessions as a sort of practicum. One other big part of it is that they are working to make the stadium especially "Green" (using solar energy, using all recyclable products, there was also something about a special kind of parking lot that allows grass to grow up through it, I didn't really understand how it would work but it sounded cool). This may not seem like a big deal, but UNT is really developing a reputation for environmentalism which will get our name in newspapers and magazines. He said he's got a few other ideas too, but those are enough to get some wider support among students.

This is all too funny - We had a coach winning championships with promises from the admin (RV) not coming true and eventually after a heart attack and one and 1/2 losing years was tossed to bring in a high school staff...... RV is the problem..... but he has a lot of people fooled.....

ADLER · July 27, 2008

We sure spend a lot of time complaining about and pointing fingers about symptoms of a much larger problem.

Read HERE how to fix the problem.

Green Dozer · July 27, 2008

We sure spend a lot of time complaining about and pointing fingers about symptoms of a much larger problem.
Read HERE how to fix the problem.

Adler,

You know, I do not completely disagree with you as for the athletic fee. However, I think the timing is just not right. I do not think the students will vote in a new fee, especially with the shape of our economy. Gas prices, groceries, everything is up. I saw where Flyer had a post on his Facebook that we can't fill the stadium we have, and so forth by a person who is against the stadium. The quote was put on this board, and Flyer said this was the only negative response he had. I believe, through no scientific research, that this opinion against an athletic fee increase reflects the majority of the students. Flyer would argue that it is not, and I respect his argument. I think we are all in for a big let down if we put this before the students during the upcoming school year. That said, it might be better to give Dodge more time to build the program up, showing that the product on the field is exciting, then take the plunge in say 2011 when things should be more settled as it relates to economy. I know you will reply that time is of the essence, and we have wasted enough, but I think patience would serve us better. I do want to say I appreciate your enthusiasm and dedication to University athletics.

UNTflyer · July 27, 2008

Dozer,

I disagree. We can't wait for a stadium as conference realignment is coming in 2010. We must build this stadium, and we must do it now. Failure... well, we might as well drop back down to Div I-AA and never return.

As for the fee, the structure being proposed will be one that I think will win the support of the students. It will be a small, progressive increase. The details of when it will start is still being worked out. Never in the history of student elections have students said, "Yeah, sure we can afford that, no problem." These things get passed through necessity, and a new stadium is necessary right now.

Edited July 27, 2008 by UNTflyer

UNTflyer · July 28, 2008

Adler, while I agree with heavily raising fees, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Look how nervous everyone is about a small stadium fee. If we tie it to a $14/hr increase, the stadium is doomed.

I will be pushing for a fee increase larger than the one being considered, but I anticipate resistance. I think we should get the stadium built first, then revisit further increases in the 2011-2012 school year. Let's spend the next few years building that fee increase up to its final level and getting more students into the stadium. I think after that time, we'll be able to go back to the students and ask for more.

Because of our student body size, for every $1/hr we charge students, we collect $1.02 million in fees. I think a fee of about $15/hr would be more than enough to get us to the level we need to be competitive.

Edited July 28, 2008 by UNTflyer

NT80 · July 28, 2008

Adler, while I agree with heavily raising fees, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Look how nervous everyone is about a small stadium fee. If we tie it to a $14/hr increase, the stadium is doomed.
I will be pushing for a fee increase larger than the one being considered, but I anticipate resistance. I think we should get the stadium built first, then revisit further increases in the 2011-2012 school year. Let's spend the next few years building that fee increase up to its final level and getting more students into the stadium. I think after that time, we'll be able to go back to the students and ask for more.
Because of our student body size, for every $1/hr we charge students, we collect $1.02 million in fees. I think a fee of about $15/hr would be more than enough to get us to the level we need to be competitive.

Can they structure the fees for a larger increase to take effect in say 5 years, so most current students wouldn't be affected by it? If they had small fees now thru year 5 then maximum fees after that it would make for a nice budget later and I'd think the current students would vote for that.

ADLER · July 28, 2008

Adler, while I agree with heavily raising fees, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Look how nervous everyone is about a small stadium fee. If we tie it to a $14/hr increase, the stadium is doomed.
I will be pushing for a fee increase larger than the one being considered, but I anticipate resistance. I think we should get the stadium built first, then revisit further increases in the 2011-2012 school year. Let's spend the next few years building that fee increase up to its final level and getting more students into the stadium. I think after that time, we'll be able to go back to the students and ask for more.
Because of our student body size, for every $1/hr we charge students, we collect $1.02 million in fees. I think a fee of about $15/hr would be more than enough to get us to the level we need to be competitive.

I hate to say this, but later may not be an option. North Texas is already poised to be left standing in the next round of conference musical chairs. Now the stage is being set for the letdown in the next round after that.

And on the fee amount, why are schools of comparable enrollment size, that already have stadiums, raising their fees to $20 per student hour if a $15 fee is enough? They want to win at this level, not just participate.

UNTflyer · July 28, 2008

Can they structure the fees for a larger increase to take effect in say 5 years, so most current students wouldn't be affected by it? If they had small fees now thru year 5 then maximum fees after that it would make for a nice budget later and I'd think the current students would vote for that.

We can structure it any way we want. Personally, I'd like to see $1/hr increase for 3 years, then a $2/hr increase for another 3 years. That would get us to $15/hr by 2014. It is my hope that the increased funding and the new stadium would drive additional MGC donations to a level where we don't need a $20/hr fee.

Also, keep in mind that by 2014, we can easily be at 40,000 in enrollment.

40k @ $15/hr = $18 million/year.

Edited July 28, 2008 by UNTflyer

stebo · July 28, 2008

How about if it is phrased this way:

"The BOR has recently mandated a student fee for athletics - starting in 4 years, after you graduate - as a future alumni - I would like for the fee to increase:

A) $14/credit hour so that we match the amount paid by Texas State at San Marcos students.

B ) $13/credit hour so that we match the amount paid by UT-San Antonio students.

C)$12/credit hour because I just want enough to pay for a new stadium.

D)$10/credit hour because I am a cheap mother f'er.

Don't give the students a choice as to if it will take place, just the amount.

Edited July 28, 2008 by stebo

GoMeanGreen1999 · July 28, 2008

One other big part of it is that they are working to make the stadium especially "Green" (using solar energy, using all recyclable products, there was also something about a special kind of parking lot that allows grass to grow up through it, I didn't really understand how it would work but it sounded cool).

Seriously - grass through the parking lot? I think those are weeds. Don't look for too much in terms of "Green" as it cost significantly more to build "green" than normal.