Horror Story.....

[FirefightnRick]

Has anyone else heard about this story about Two U. of Tennessee students getting carjacked, kidnapped, gangraped and tortured, mutilated then murdered and having one body burned and dumped and the other left in a/several garbage bags? I haven't, and considering the the level of violence involved that surprises me.

Here's a video on the subject about it not making national headlines.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/16/a-ho...-msm-wont-tell/

And here's the latest concerning the trial.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/04/17/horro...guilty-verdict/

Thoughts?

Rick

[GoMeanGreen1999]

You know, I read about this about a year ago and thought - this was incredible that it was not in the news. Has there been any convictions on this yet? It is a SICKENING story to read about. It just amazes me how people can treat other people like they are animals.

[FirefightnRick]

Has there been any convictions on this yet?

In April, the only one not charged with murder, but charged with Conspiracy to commit murder was found guilty and recieved 15 years.

Rick

[GoMeanGreen1999]

This is just such a sad and tragic story. I think there would be outrage if more people knew about it. It is amazing to me though every time I read about it, I never cease to be amazed at how some people treat others. There is some kind of rage in those people for them to do that sort of thing to those folks.

[FirefightnRick]

This is just such a sad and tragic story. I think there would be outrage if more people knew about it.

I don't know about that. Just look here on this very thread. 54 reviews about one of the most violent, horrific crimes that I have read about in a long time, yet only two of us seem outraged enough to post on it. However, on another thread, where it was linked to the story of a guy eliminating two sorry excuses of human waste down in Houston trying to protect himself and his neighbors' home, potentially saving no telling how many others from having to face yet another crime that they would have surely committed had they survived, and people cried for them to the tune of several pages.

Tells me a lot about our society today.

Unbelievable.

Rick

[UNTLifer]

Thoughts?

Rick

I couldn't agree with Ms. Malkin any more. Those five should be executed.

[Mean Green 93-98]

That is absolutely disgusting. No court in this country will hand out the sentence that these scum deserve.

And I don't think anyone could argue successfully against Ms. Malkin's comments. There certainly would be public outrage about this story if the press would cover it.

[SUMG]

I have followed this story from the beginning. In summary, here is what happened to this young couple, who were out on a date:

1) The young man was raped "prison style". He had his penis cut off, before being shot three times. His body was set on fire, as it was dumped outside.

2) The young woman was raped vaginally, anally and orally (forced to perform oral sex on these thugs). To erase evidence of the oral sex, the thugs poured bleach down the young woman's throat ...while she was alive. They cut off one of her breasts. And, they took turns urinating on her. All of this happened while she was alive.

They then dumped her body in a trash can, where she suffocated to death.

And yet, the DA in Knoxville says that this is not a "hate crime."

Just another example of the stupidity of hate crime laws.

[FirefightnRick]

I have followed this story from the beginning. In summary, here is what happened to this young couple, who were out on a date:

1) The young man was raped "prison style". He had his penis cut off, before being shot three times. His body was set on fire, as it was dumped outside.

2) The young woman was raped vaginally, anally and orally (forced to perform oral sex on these thugs). To erase evidence of the oral sex, the thugs poured bleach down the young woman's throat ...while she was alive. They cut off one of her breasts. And, they took turns urinating on her. All of this happened while she was alive.

They then dumped her body in a trash can, where she suffocated to death.

And yet, the DA in Knoxville says that this is not a "hate crime."

Just another example of the stupidity of hate crime laws.

He's referring to THIS YOUNG COUPLE.

Imagine being their parents having to sit in that courtroom knowing this happened to your child in their last final hours on earth?

Rick

Edited July 21, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[eulesseagle]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

dept of justice stats. interesting.

mostly graphs.....you draw your own conclusions.

The Michelle Malkin post, by rick, indicates little interest in black on white crime. However, I will relate two stories that are, at least 15 years old.

The first story is from my cousin who lives in southwest Missouri. Even though he is a little older than myself we both were fortunate to be raised christian conservative and both gained valuable insight from our die hard Republican grandmother who had pictures of Eisenhower and Nixon hanging in her livingroom. According to the Springfield newspaper, in the early 1990's, the city was pedominately white with the highest number of minorities being Chinese desent and then African-American. Crime stats indicated that approximately 80-85% of the crime was African-American with only less than 1% from the Chinese. To be fair, at this time, Springfield, was being introduced to the Crips and Bloods and I would assume some of the crime was related to these gangsters......since it would be difficult to classify them as community activists. After a year the C/B's began showing up dead in ones and twos in local barns and fields in and around Springfield with their hands tied behind their backs and "capped" in the back of the head. Naturally, the C/B's blamed the local police and the police said the deaths were related to gang turf issues. Result: C/B's packed their bags and left town. This story "only" represents what happens when you let gangs....if it be C/B's, MS-13 or the Ayrean Nation (sp) become entrenched in your commmunity that has more concern with with political correctness than protecting and serving.

The last story relates to Cincinatti, Ohio and the minority section of town called Over the Rhine (once a German immigrant section of Cincinatti now predominately all A-A). Senario: Crime out of control, drugs, killings, prostitution...etc. Police in almost daily violent confrontations with a New Jack City type of culture (I will admit that most AA's like Whites don't commit crimes but there is a small segment of that population that do). Police had to shoot several residence of this area. Backlash: One too many white officers shot too many AAs which resulted in the immediate appearances of Jackson & Sharpton to claim genocide. The police said we have about 40% (or so) of police patrols in this area because this is where the crime is. This resulted in the Cincinatti police placing as many patrol units in this area as represenative as other sections of Cincinatti, as the final negotiations with the NAACP and the Over the Rhine residence demanded. Less police presence meant the rise of crime. After three months crime was so out of control that the AA comunity of the Over the Rhine was screaming for all the police protection they once had. This story "only" represents the high incidents of black on black crime, for the most part that goes unreported.

Dare say there are a plethora of other multi-racial examples that are published daily on the net and published in "right wing" books written by "Bork," "D'Souza," "Mulkin," "Coulter," LaPierre," ..... etc.....

Edited July 22, 2008 by eulesseagle

[Censored by Laurie]

I waver on whether or not this should be prosecuted as a hate crime...my rationale for not doing so is that he felt it would be more difficult to secure convictions in the face of the evidence that exists that these men associated frequently with white people, had white friends and dated white people. The defense would simply parade ex-girlfriends and friends and steer the jury to only thinking about race rather than the horrible murders and rapes. The four main perpetrators' charges should be enough to secure max convivtions.

I do have a problem with these blogs that have been posted that suggest that this crime isn't recieving "mainstream media" (the most tired of tired-head terms) attention because the victims are white. The idea that any major media outlet has an "anti-white bias" is insane...just wait for the next pretty, rich white girl to disappear on a Caribbean vacation. You said its got to be hard for these families to hear the details of the crime in court...yet you want to add on to that by making them hear them everytime they turn on a TV or radio too?

[eulesseagle]

cbl-

Winston Churchill, and I paraphrase, once said that if you are not a liberal by the time you are 20 you have no heart and if you are not a conservative by the time you are 40 you have no soul.

IMHO, I see in you what I witnessed in the protests around the NTSU campus in the 60's. You are the typical egalitarian on a white euro-centric guilt trip because of the so called minority labor western europeans used to build colonial empires. I think this is your moral chaos.

A funny but true story. A good friend of mine, who I have known since my NTSU days, had a son who listened to all his liberal politically correct teachers in high school and was able to recieve a minority scholarship to Prairie View A&M. His political leaning went from indifference to marxism. He was able to transfer to The Texas A&M on an academic scholarship. He came to visit me one time wearing his Che' T-Shirt and beret with the red star and tried to convince me to join the cause. He was too far entrenched in marxist philosophy at that time to listen to conservative reason. After his first semester he came back to see me and told me that he was transfering to St. Mary's (I think in San Antonio) to finish his degree. He said the reason was that nobody at Texas A&M would have anything to do with his Marxist Society Club that he was trying to establish on campus. Go figure! Only two members he said. He has now been living in England for the last three years and works for one the social service agencies and has expressed the desired interest to return to the USA because he can not tolerate a system that is socialist based. Go figure!

[Mean Green 93-98]

Should this be treated as a special "hate crime" case? No. In effect, all murders are hate crimes. And when you look at how far these subhumans went beyond murder, does it really matter whether they were racially motivated or otherwise? I don't care what the motivation was for those men who dragged James Byrd (I think that was his name) behind their truck, they deserved to hang.

Yet, it is extremely inconsistent to prosecute white on black crime as a "hate crime" when even remotely racially motivated, and not vice versa.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

The part of this story that is so hard for me to understand, and really so many crimes like this (not all of the details of this, because this is just so brutal of a crime) is what makes all of those people all go off at once and do this? Did they all just say they wanted to go out and find a couple to do this to? I just don't get it.

They ALL should get the Death Penalty. Without a turn from their earthly ways, their pain will only get worse.

Edited July 22, 2008 by GoMeanGreen1999

[Censored by Laurie]

Egalitarianism - a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic rights and privileges.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you all are one in Christ Jesus (Gal.3:28).

My egalitarianism has nothing to do with guilt.

[eulesseagle]

If your egalitarianism has nothing to do with your guilt then explain your personal association with it.

John 16:13. .....he will guide you into ALL truth.

[Quoner]

If your egalitarianism has nothing to do with your guilt then explain your personal association with it.

John 16:13. .....he will guide you into ALL truth.

This can all only go somewhere good.

[emmitt01]

The part of this story that is so hard for me to understand, and really so many crimes like this (not all of the details of this, because this is just so brutal of a crime) is what makes all of those people all go off at once and do this? Did they all just say they wanted to go out and find a couple to do this to? I just don't get it.

It's the group dynamic of killing (and really crime in general). When people kill in groups of 2 or more there are set, very distinct roles within the social dynamic. The dominant person, the one to whom the others look for acceptance and direction, commonly is also the most sadistic and once he/she starts down a violent path the others follow suit...kinda like monkey see, monkey do but not really a mimicing behavior and more a matter of following someone's lead. Seeing violence (even senseless and brutal violence like this) perpetrated in front of you anesthetizes you to what you are doing if you are already predisposed to being violent. It's much like when police officers gang up to beat a criminal. Once the first blow in thrown a "us" versus "them" dynamic is formed and morality is defined within the group and situation and not outside of it.

And as to "hate crime" it is a moot and overplayed point in this case. Aside from the fact that I think the idea of "hate crime" based punishment is nothing more than punishing thought...not to mention a way to sensationalize high profile crimes to prove how tough we are on criminals...this case doesn't even call for it. If the victim had been white and the perpetrators were also white the bad guys would deserve the death penalty for the nature of the crime.

And eulesseagle, your stories would seem to suggest...by the way that they are presented...that blacks are somehow more criminal and in need of more police supervision. I don't assume that that was your attempt and think you probably fall prey to over simplified anecdotal evidence that a great many "conservatives" cling to. In truth, though, there is no meaningful disparity between the criminality of whites vs. blacks vs. hispanics and so on by virtue of race simply. There is, though, a marked disparity in terms of criminalization of acts committed by different races, police enforcement, prosecution strategy, and incarceration decisions. And I would even argue that it isn't "racist" per se but rather a matter of socio-economics and the production of positive "numbers" that can be sold to the public. (This simplistic explanation of course leaves out the existence of true racism within the general citizenry, self-fulfilling stereotypes within cultural communities, the influx of violence based music which correlates with lifestyle choices, and the presentation of popular media of certain groups as more criminal)

[GoMeanGreen1999]

It's the group dynamic of killing (and really crime in general). When people kill in groups of 2 or more there are set, very distinct roles within the social dynamic. The dominant person, the one to whom the others look for acceptance and direction, commonly is also the most sadistic and once he/she starts down a violent path the others follow suit...kinda like monkey see, monkey do but not really a mimicing behavior and more a matter of following someone's lead. Seeing violence (even senseless and brutal violence like this) perpetrated in front of you anesthetizes you to what you are doing if you are already predisposed to being violent. It's much like when police officers gang up to beat a criminal. Once the first blow in thrown a "us" versus "them" dynamic is formed and morality is defined within the group and situation and not outside of it.

Well that definately helps and does make some sense. Thanks.

[CaribbeanGreen]

This can all only go somewhere good.

Hey, we've already had references to white guilt, conveniently "German" neighborhoods being victims of minority crime, and an amusing intentional misspelling of "Aryan"... plus, the reference to all the important pro-white articles published every at on "the internet".... at least i'm trying to make it worth something as far as comedic value, since we're still forced to read it (or scroll past it)...

... in other (sane) news, yeah, I recall hearing about this crime a while back. Not sure which news source. Terrible, terrible thing. Beyond comprehension.

[CaribbeanGreen]

And eulesseagle, your stories would seem to suggest...by the way that they are presented...that blacks are somehow more criminal and in need of more police supervision. I don't assume that that was your attempt and think you probably fall prey to over simplified anecdotal evidence that a great many "conservatives" cling to. In truth, though, there is no meaningful disparity between the criminality of whites vs. blacks vs. hispanics and so on by virtue of race simply. There is, though, a marked disparity in terms of criminalization of acts committed by different races, police enforcement, prosecution strategy, and incarceration decisions. And I would even argue that it isn't "racist" per se but rather a matter of socio-economics and the production of positive "numbers" that can be sold to the public. (This simplistic explanation of course leaves out the existence of true racism within the general citizenry, self-fulfilling stereotypes within cultural communities, the influx of violence based music which correlates with lifestyle choices, and the presentation of popular media of certain groups as more criminal)

Emmitt, that was very much his intent. Who we talkin' about here? C'mon....

In other news, great point.

[Censored by Laurie]

Over the Rhine is a really cool band...sort of a Norah Jones-esque lead singer over some good piano work. Their song "Lifelong Fling" is going to be my wedding song.

This is what we were discussing right?

[Quoner]

If your egalitarianism has nothing to do with your guilt then explain your personal association with it.

John 16:13. .....he will guide you into ALL truth.

In all seriousness, I guess I am too stupid to follow the logic of this post.

[FirefightnRick]

You said its got to be hard for these families to hear the details of the crime in court...yet you want to add on to that by making them hear them everytime they turn on a TV or radio too?

No, I'm not implying that at all. The girl missing on vacation was nationally covered fairly soon after it happened. The other cases mentioned were instantly reported within a pretty close time to it happening. The two little girls who were shot and left dead in a bar ditch in Oklahoma recently was reported the night it happened etc etc etc. Yet this crime, which to me is as violent or more than most, happened in January 2007, right about the time Todd Dodge was formulating his first recruiting class. Yet here we are just now learning about it 17, 18 months later? Just seems strange it hasn't been covered as one would think it would have been?

Rick

Edited July 22, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[Cerebus]

Yet this crime, which to me is as violent or more than most, happened in January 2007, right about the time Todd Dodge was formulating his first recruiting class. Yet here we are just now learning about it 17, 18 months later? Just seems strange it hasn't been covered as one would think it would have been?

Rick

There are about 45 murders a day in the US, you don't hear about the vast majority of them, even the ones that are particularly gruesome.

I did hear about this when it happened, it did make a minor splash because of how awful it was, but for whatever reasons, it didn't catch the media spotlight, just like the 43 other ones that happened that day. At about the same time this happened there where several newstories that helped push this off the frontpage:

* Hezbollah/Hamas civil war in Palestine.

* Seven policemen where charged with murder over the Danzinger Bridge post Katrina incident.

* FBI released a report claiming it had witnessed illegal torture in Qitmo.

* Gerald Ford's state funeral.

* The Alexander Litvinenko poisoning was just exploding.

* The surge in Iraq was being debated hotly after the Iraq Study Group releases it findings.

* Several hi rises and the PATH had to be evacuated in NYC because of a suspected terrorist gas attack.

* Italy charges 25 CIA agents with kidnapping for the extraordinary rendition of Osama Nasr.

* Everybody on the planet gets antsy when China goes forward with its anti sattelite missle test.

* Terrorists fire a missle at the US embassy in Athens.

* Saddam's brother in law is hanged, and at the same time Saddam's death video leaker is put on trial.

* A whole bunch of other stuff happened.

So, the idea that "this is being covered up" is a myth. I saw it reported, I saw it on a major network. It apparently didn't drive ratings enough compared to these other stories and it was buried. Happens ever day.

The unfortunate thing is many white supremacists are using this to try and prove a point. I could post to articles about this on sites like stormfront and vanguard news and other similar sites, but then I would have to ban myself.