Well, This Is Bad News/good News

July 17, 2008

Note to self: Come up with a French name for your house. It seems to add value.

I don't know SUMG. I gave mine a French name but I probably should've come up with something other than "maison d'pauvre' (the poor house).

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 17, 2008

Too much crap to sort through, so I'll keep it short:

(1) As I posted within the last month, it took DeLoach five years to whip UNT's defense into shape. Don't expect miracles...unless Jonas Buckles, Brandon Kennedy, et. al. come back and suit up. We wasted tons of defensive experience last season on a high school defensive coordinator and a secondary coach who hadn't been on a sideline in a dozen or so years (great hires). We were already going to be young and thin on the defensive side of the ball on '08. Losing the two defensive end is bad no matter how you slice it. Just more and more inexperience everywhere you turn on that side of the ball.

(2) With a weak defensive line, it won't matter how many DBs we have or whether or not they can cover. If we can't stop the run, our opponents willl simply run over us and ball control us to death game after game - with our "record-setting" offense standing on the sidelines watching.

(FREEBIE: Defense wins football games. Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring - thanks to a great Baltimore Raven defense. If a team can't score on your defense, they can't beat you. OU-Mizzouri last year...twice the Sooner shut down the supposed high-octane Mizzou offense. There are millions of examples. These are just two (or three if you count both Tiger pummelings last season against Oklahoma). If Dodge flames out here, please, please, please hire a coach who knows something about stopping people from scoring!)

(3) The stadium talk...<sigh>

Edited July 17, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

CaribbeanGreen · July 17, 2008

we can suit up Al Hurley's post-El Fenix bowel movement at DE, and our defense will be improved over "Toro" Mendoza's squad. This doesn't shake my foundation.

UNTFan23 · July 17, 2008

Those alumni/donors/corporations contributions are the result of a commitment to winning. The fee is the foundation for that commitment.
Please describe, without some fairytale lottery scenario, how it could be done any differently.

Why build a foundation around a very specific source of revenue? I'd much rather we build a foundation around the student body/alumni/citizens of Denton. The revenue generated should be the result of the commitment to winning coming from your foundation (ie your fan base).

If we're going to tax the students, then we need to tax the fans as well. In a lateral move to increase the student fees, I'd like to see the Athletic Department raise ticket prices an equitable percentage as well. Why should the students pay for it all? WHY?!?

To believe that alumni/donors/corporations will fall in line just because we raise a student fee is complete and utter nonsense that has absolutely zero imperial evidence to prove that this domino effect would happen.

Finally, I leave with this graphic, which seems appropriate ...

Underpants%20Gnomes.jpg

July 18, 2008

Why build a foundation around a very specific source of revenue? I'd much rather we build a foundation around the student body/alumni/citizens of Denton. The revenue generated should be the result of the commitment to winning coming from your foundation (ie your fan base).
If we're going to tax the students, then we need to tax the fans as well. In a lateral move to increase the student fees, I'd like to see the Athletic Department raise ticket prices an equitable percentage as well. Why should the students pay for it all? WHY?!?
To believe that alumni/donors/corporations will fall in line just because we raise a student fee is complete and utter nonsense that has absolutely zero imperial evidence to prove that this domino effect would happen.
Finally, I leave with this graphic, which seems appropriate ...

I agree in spirit with what you say about having everyone involved rather than one major donor. We are attempting to do that but we're talking about building a stadium, not covering expenses. The only way to get a quick start is to come up with at least one large donor. Alumni can't do it without some large gifts. How many would you have contribute? If only 1,000 donors each contribute, each would have to pony up $65,000. Won't happen. If EVERY living alum contributed, only then could we get it down to $350 or so. Only then would it be affordable for most of our alums.

It's much easier to raise money from the student body because it's mandatory that it be paid. It also gets them involved in athletics since they have now invested in athletics future. With alumni, it's only optional. The student body is not footing the bill alone. Every alum sitting in Section E contributes at least $350, so alums don't get a free ride. Some give much more than that.

Given our conference and home schedule, ticket prices are pretty much what the market will bear. Higher profile teams may require a bigger guarantee, hence increased ticket proces for that game. Untile we can build our fan base, I hope that they will leave ticket and donor prices as is. Now if we can get in a conference with more regional teams.....bring on an increase.

GoMeanGreen1999 · July 18, 2008

Unless they've sold it (and I can't find anything to substantiate that), they still own that 48,000 SF monstrosity known as Champ d'Or in Denton. It was last offered at $35M.
I don't know much about Al Goldfield currently. It is rumored that after he sold his holdings in CellStar that he invested in oil and gas properties. I hope that some of those holdings are in Denton County since it is developing into a very productive natural gas field and Al and Shirley Goldfield are/have been friends of the University of North Texas.
At one time I heard that Goldfield was heading up a task force to try to solicit donations for our university and the stadium in particular. Has anyone heard anything on that?

He gave I thought 1.5 million to get the stadium raising off the ground, but then I thought he was pledging more as soon as more large donors were located. Some time about a year or so ago, RV said he was working on a "large" donation that would be announced, but it never came - so I don't know what happened there. They have enough money to fund the whole stadium if they desired to do so.

Green to the Bone · July 18, 2008

Stadium.

Luxury skyboxes. Track around the field. No track around the field.

We suck. SMU sucks. We suck more. No, they suck more. No, they're just richer.

Our fundraising is lousy. GMC is lousy. Communication is lousy.

Al Goldfield can build our stadium with his navel lint.

Conference realignment.

No DEs. No D. No D for TD. No D yet for DD.

Student athletics fee. Student stadium fee. RV. Gretchen.

I'm just trying to list all the keywords that will make this kind of thread turn up in a Google search.

UNTFan23 · July 18, 2008

Let me lay out a few assumptions: The primary assumption is basically that no seat in the season ticket area or the student section gets discounted. Another assumption is that football is the only revenue generating sport for the fall semester. Basketball would be used for the spring semester.

Let's say for just a moment that the students do actually approve a fee to the state maximum of $240 per semester. Since the fall semester is basically all football, so a student would pay $240 for their "season ticket."

Current ticket prices for a season ticket are $100 per seat. That means season ticket holders will be paying $140 less per person than students*.

GYUXVEPQNFZSIAX.20080115171430.jpg

There are 8 sections in each endzone. Each endzone holds approximately 5000 people. Each section holds approximately 625 people.

There are 9 sections on one sideline but for rounding purposes, let's say there are 10 section. Each section holds 1000 people.

There are 10 sections that hold all the season tickets holders holding 10,000 people. That's means the season ticket holder section is worth $1,000,000.

There are essentially 8 student sideline sections holding approximately 8,000 students and 4 end zone sections holding 2,500 students for a total of 10,500 students. The entire student section would be worth $2,520,000.

Total revenue (assuming all season tickets are sold and we just use 10,500 students out of the 34,000 that attend the university) for 1 season would equal $3,520,000. Total revenue would be $9,160,000 for 1 season of football if you used all 34,000 students with the alumni accounting for a measly 11% of the revenue generated.

You mean to tell me that the students can afford to pay out almost 2 - 1/2 times more than the season ticket holders on a per seat* basis? :blink:

Should I go over the ticket prices/season revenue for basketball next? :rolleyes: :lol:

* Does not include Mean Green Club donations

DeepGreen · July 18, 2008

Actually we've been D-1 since we joined the Missouri Valley Conference in the 50's. We just had an unfortunate absence for about 12 years.

I know that. I was talking about our second time around.

emmitt01 · July 18, 2008

To believe that alumni/donors/corporations will fall in line just because we raise a student fee is complete and utter nonsense that has absolutely zero imperial evidence to prove that this domino effect would happen.

I'd settle for empirical evidence.

UNTFan23 · July 18, 2008

I'd settle for empirical evidence.

Stupid spell check grabbed the wrong word for me.

Censored by Laurie · July 18, 2008

I haven't really kept up with this thread, but let me try and weigh in on the major points

Defensive Ends - it sucks, but every team goes through these things. In order to develop as a player you need to play, so the Charlie Brown's and Mack Cole's of this need to view this as a great opportunity. Also, we have a defensive coordinator who got to "B" in his how to coach ABC book...thus he should know how to blitz.

Stadium/Luxury Boxes - The boxes will sell...I know for certain that with the amount of alcohol consumed in Denton that Budweiser, Miller, and Coors will each buy atleast one box per game to court the local bar owners and managers...its a great write off and will be considerably cheaper than taking us to Mavs games, Stars games or local concerts. Hell, if the boxes are like the AAC and not entirely enclosed so that you can still get the football game atmosphere I would probably organize a group to buy one for whatever game I come back for.

The Goldfields - I believe that Al Goldfield was pivital in developing the technology responsible for Caller ID and some how worked out some sort of royalty where he gets a fraction of a cent for every cell phone call made. This might just be late night Loophole, Jameson induced B.S., but its how I heard they made their fortune.

greenminer · July 18, 2008

Somebody said Loophole!

adman · July 18, 2008

I haven't really kept up with this thread, but let me try and weigh in on the major points
Defensive Ends - it sucks, but every team goes through these things. In order to develop as a player you need to play, so the Charlie Brown's and Mack Cole's of this need to view this as a great opportunity. Also, we have a defensive coordinator who got to "B" in his how to coach ABC book...thus he should know how to blitz.
Stadium/Luxury Boxes - The boxes will sell...I know for certain that with the amount of alcohol consumed in Denton that Budweiser, Miller, and Coors will each buy atleast one box per game to court the local bar owners and managers...its a great write off and will be considerably cheaper than taking us to Mavs games, Stars games or local concerts. Hell, if the boxes are like the AAC and not entirely enclosed so that you can still get the football game atmosphere I would probably organize a group to buy one for whatever game I come back for.
The Goldfields - I believe that Al Goldfield was pivital in developing the technology responsible for Caller ID and some how worked out some sort of royalty where he gets a fraction of a cent for every cell phone call made. This might just be late night Loophole, Jameson induced B.S., but its how I heard they made their fortune.

At one point Mr. Goldfield or rather his company owned most of the rights to the air over much of Asia. (In the cell phone send and receive transmission sense.)

UNTflyer · July 18, 2008

At one point Mr. Goldfield or rather his company owned most of the rights to the air over much of Asia. (In the cell phone send and receive transmission sense.)

A.K.A. Little Timmy Hartwell

Eagle1855 · July 18, 2008

Somebody said Loophole!

fried pickles. turkey draw. mmm beer.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Eagle1855

July 18, 2008

I purposely avoided commenting directly to the Star-Telegram blog until I cooled off. That bad news/worse news really stunned me.

While a bitter pill to swallow, the loss of the two potential starters at DE is not the end of the world. We will move on and may find another diamond-in-the-rough who will now get a chance to play. Also, I don't blame anyone but the players themselves. Each knew what was required and failed to meet those those qualifications. It also could have been extenuating circumstances that caused one or both's inability to participate. We will quickly recover from this.

I can't say the same for the stadium. When the Athletics Center opened 3 1/2 years ago, I was told that the plans, complete with the necessary studies, were finished and that a stadium could be built within 18 months of groundbreaking. The inaction and lack of communication since that time is totally inexcusable. On the basis of what is known we are actually behind that day in January of 2005. We are redrawing plans. We may very well have a better stadium but in the meantime the cost has gone up at least $15 million and could compromise our ability to advance to a more regional conference should that situation be imminent.

Many good things have happened at UNT on Rick's watch. There's still a lot of room for improvement. We still need a stadium, a center pavilion at the Waranch Tennis Center, a track and field complex, a baseball team, several new coaches, a working Athletics Development Officer, an agressive marketing and promotions campaign and a new conference. Also important, we need someone to communicate those needs.

flyeater · July 18, 2008

When the Athletics Center opened 3 1/2 years ago, I was told that the plans, complete with the necessary studies, were finished and that a stadium could be built within 18 months of groundbreaking.

Told by who, the Stadium Fairy? Hard to believe anyone with any knowledge/authority could have made such a statement with any real certainty or evidence. Hope you're not back on that goofy, moronic stadium video (it never leaves!).

SUMG · July 18, 2008

Told by who, the Stadium Fairy? Hard to believe anyone with any knowledge/authority could have made such a statement with any real certainty or evidence.

Hey if Gray Eagle One, one of our most respected fans and posters.....says that that happened....it did. If we had a $1 for every bullshit hint that has been dropped about a stadium being imminent...we'd have enough money to build the darn thing. And I'm talking about hints coming from people in the athletic department. All the way to the top.

greenminer · July 18, 2008

Many good things have happened at UNT on Rick's watch. There's still a lot of room for improvement. We still need a stadium, a center pavilion at the Waranch Tennis Center, a track and field complex, a baseball team, several new coaches, a working Athletics Development Officer, an agressive marketing and promotions campaign and a new conference. Also important, we need someone to communicate those needs.

I would personally like to see some wins, too.

And a vendor that sells kettle corn.

ADLER · July 18, 2008

Told by who, the Stadium Fairy? Hard to believe anyone with any knowledge/authority could have made such a statement with any real certainty or evidence. Hope you're not back on that goofy, moronic stadium video (it never leaves!).

Here's a gift for you. It's a video from March 2004 stating that a football stadium is one of 6 major facilities planned to be completed within the next 18 months.

Click HERE for Stadium Video

It was a video produced for the University of North Texas, and the timeframe was being supported not only by the Director of Athletics but also by the President of the University. It is very clear how people could be mislead to believe that there would potentialy be groundbreaking on a stadium facility prior to 2010.

I think it has become fairly appearant that the groundbreaking for the stadium has been delayed from the original schedule. I think many fans are openly questioning if the prospects for a new stadium are any better now than they were back when this video was produced.

In the meantime construction costs have risen at an astounding rate and North Texas has lost it's only President that ever acknowledged that UNT could become a great university. He was run out by a faculty that believed existance not performance should be the basis for tenure. That same faculty has since selected their own marionette who will do absolutely nothing that makes waves.

So, what do we do? We sit and wait for some imaginary company with no history of interest in North Texas to suddenly dump tens of millions on a historically underperforming venture, or you wait for some elusive fairy to inspire all of North Texas' 150,000 alumni to suddenly start donating generously to a discarded educational appliance.

flyeater · July 18, 2008

Hey if Gray Eagle One, one of our most respected fans and posters.....says that that happened....it did. If we had a $1 for every bullshit hint that has been dropped about a stadium being imminent...we'd have enough money to build the darn thing. And I'm talking about hints coming from people in the athletic department. All the way to the top.

A conspiracy? You mean we've been led on all these years with phantom blueprints, studies and capital campaigns, when now we know those things didn't (seriously) exist? The Goldfields dropped their record $1.5 mil athletic donation just in 2006, so what exactly did ath. dept. people deceive or pacify us with before then? Just because RV, etc. talked about a new stadium in 2004 or 2001, doesn't mean it was predestined to open 2008, or that someone lied, deceived, misled, BS'd, or whatever you think they did.

I know of things like wish lists or fairy-tale likenesses of stadiums, but as far as anything concrete/official that the ath. dept. yanked off the table, I don't recall.

meangreenbob · July 18, 2008

Here's a gift for you. It's a video from March 2004 stating that a football stadium is one of 6 major facilities planned to be completed within the next 18 months.
Click HERE for Stadium Video
It was a video produced for the University of North Texas, and the timeframe was being supported not only by the Director of Athletics but also by the President of the University. It is very clear how people could be mislead to believe that there would potentialy be groundbreaking on a stadium facility prior to 2010.
I think it has become fairly appearant that the groundbreaking for the stadium has been delayed from the original schedule. I think many fans are openly questioning if the prospects for a new stadium are any better now than they were back when this video was produced.
In the meantime construction costs have risen at an astounding rate and North Texas has lost it's only President that ever acknowledged that UNT could become a great university. He was run out by a faculty that believed existance not performance should be the basis for tenure. That same faculty has since selected their own marionette who will do absolutely nothing that makes waves.
So, what do we do? We sit and wait for some imaginary company with no history of interest in North Texas to suddenly dump tens of millions on a historically underperforming venture, or you wait for some elusive fairy to inspire all of North Texas' 150,000 alumni to suddenly start donating generously to a discarded educational appliance.

I was in Denton on Wednesday. The talks on the new stadium are still going on. Don't know what that means.

As for Dr. Pohl. When they ran him off they well may have destroyed any hope UNT had of becoming a major player at the highest level. :angry:

Maybe thats why they ran him off. He made things happen. Remember the video of the ground breaking for the new AC. What did Dr. Polh say to the cheer of the crowd? Somthing like "We're never going back!"

Edited July 18, 2008 by meangreenbob

SUMG · July 18, 2008

A conspiracy? You mean we've been led on all these years with phantom blueprints, studies and capital campaigns, when now we know those things didn't (seriously) exist? The Goldfields dropped their record $1.5 mil athletic donation just in 2006, so what exactly did ath. dept. people deceive or pacify us with before then? Just because RV, etc. talked about a new stadium in 2004 or 2001, doesn't mean it was predestined to open 2008, or that someone lied, deceived, misled, BS'd, or whatever you think they did.
I know of things like wish lists or fairy-tale likenesses of stadiums, but as far as anything concrete/official that the ath. dept. yanked off the table, I don't recall.

Oh really? We've had parents of players come on this very board and tell us that RV told recruits that they would have an indoor practice facility by now.

And if I'm not mistaken Riley Dodge was quoted as saying (when he signed) that we would have a new football stadium by 2010. Where do you think he got that from? His Dad, who obviously has been fed a bunch of crap by the Athletic Director.

Keep believing in RV. You'll still be in Fouts in 2025.