Thoughts On Eddrick Gilmore

Harry · July 10, 2008

Why is it that we didn't tie this young man to a professor/mentor at UNT who would help him navigate through to eligibility? I was not even an athlete at UNT but I had professors who mentored me through difficult subjects. Why was he allowed to dig such a deep hole in the first place? We are going to get other players that aren't Rhodes Scholars and we need to set up an infrastructure to deal with it...this is a issue that we will continue to face. Everyone knew that this kid was a critical component to having a chance to compete defensively this season...were there any steps taken to help this kid get through school?

Please don't come on here and talk about how the kid is responsible - we all know that every student athlete has obligations to make the grade. Clearly this young man has had some challenges that should have been identified early on and addressed. What I want to know is why this kid slipped through the cracks, what could have been done to prevent it and here is the most important part, what are we doing to set up a system that will allow for more academic success stories like Jonas Buckles who also came from an inner city school and was an honor role student at UNT?

I understand that losing players to academics is not necessarily a UNT phenomenon, but I want be more comfortable about the system we have in place, ie are the players who have not been prepared identified and given adequate resources, and managed/verified consistently to overcome these obstacles. This system is critical to our sucess down the road folks, it is very important that someone is taking some responsibility for it.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 10, 2008

(1) The student athlete is responsible.

(2) The athletic department is supposed to have people in place for academic counseling and tutoring...and mentoring...and, etc., etc., etc.

Therefore,

(3) It is both Gilmore and the athletic department's fault.

BONUS - There are enough crap degree plans at public schools for people, including athletes, to get by. When I was taking upper level classes for my degree at UNT, there were people in another degree plan (that I will not mention) showing each other their flip charts for one of their degree plan's upper level courses. Yes, a flip chart like you'd see used in grades K-2. This was a major project in that said degree plan's upper level class. If Gilmore and the athletic department couldn't steer him toward the "upper level flip chart classes degree plan", well.... No one makes these guys study nuclear physics. If you don't get off your butt and study, though, you are going to have problems - even in the flip chart classes, I suspect.

SUMG · July 10, 2008

Why is it that we didn't tie this young man to a professor/mentor at UNT who would help him navigate through to eligibility? I was not even an athlete at UNT but I had professors who mentored me through difficult subjects. Why was he allowed to dig such a deep hole in the first place? We are going to get other players that aren't Rhodes Scholars and we need to set up an infrastructure to deal with it...this is a issue that we will continue to face. Everyone knew that this kid was a critical component to having a chance to compete defensively this season...were there any steps taken to help this kid get through school?
Please don't come on here and talk about how the kid is responsible - we all know that every student athlete has obligations to make the grade. Clearly this young man has had some challenges that should have been identified early on and addressed. What I want to know is why this kid slipped through the cracks, what could have been done to prevent it and here is the most important part, what are we doing to set up a system that will allow for more academic success stories like Jonas Buckles who also came from an inner city school and was an honor role student at UNT?
I understand that losing players to academics is not necessarily a UNT phenomenon, but I want be more comfortable about the system we have in place, ie are the players who have not been prepared identified and given adequate resources, and managed/verified consistently to overcome these obstacles. This system is critical to our sucess down the road folks, it is very important that someone is taking some responsibility for it.

I agree with everything you said, H-Man......especially since if Gilmore wasn't the one player we could least afford to lose...he's probably in the top 3.

GoMeanGreen1999 · July 10, 2008

You bring up some good questions. Even though it is the players responsibility to make his grades, the Athletic Department does shoulder some of the responsibility also, and based on the APR results, they are not doing that great of a job. I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect, that the Athletic Department is doing something different than they were, it is just going to take some time to correct the problems. To my knowledge, no one has been removed from their positions over there, so they must think whoever they have in charge, can correct the problem.

El Paso Eagle · July 10, 2008

Just speculating, like everyone else, but who’s to say that everything that could legally been done for this kid wasn't?

There are cases where a person just loses the desire and no mater what is done to try and help, noting is going to change the end result??????

UNTLifer · July 10, 2008

Do we know that he left because of grades? Seems there was a report earlier that said he would not be playing due to personal reasons.

KBJ · July 10, 2008

Harry,
I know alot of this is a repeat of a couple things I said in another thread, but I feel strongly about this issue. I think someone claimed that our academics had really fallen off since 2006. I don't think that really is the case, I just think no one was looking at these things. I think the improved graduation rates are a positive sign that things are improving.
As someone who works in academics, I know that I always feel there is more I can do to help students. So I try to do more when I can and try to come up with new programs or ways to reach out to students. So yes, I would imagine the folks over in athletics are concerned about these things and would like to work harder to do even more for student success. You don't work in that type of role if you don't want to help students (because the pay sucks). But having worked with literally thousands of students of all abilities, I know that at some point the student has to take responsibility for their academics. You can walk a student to class to make sure they attend (I have absolutely done this), but you can't make them listen or learn.

What improved graduation rates are you talking about not football.

If you were one of GODS boys you didn't have to go to spring ball if you had grade problems if you were a DD boy spring was a must. This sure as hell didn't help Eddrick out. The day Cortney left the program it went down hill, I'm glad she got the job at UT it was a big step for her.

mad dog · July 10, 2008

I've heard the argument that you can lead an athlete to water but can't make them drink. I know that it is ultimately up to the student to get their act together. However, I also know that they have motivations, as do all of us, and you just have to find the right button to push. If you assume Gilmore wanted to play football (and I think that is a fair assumption), then you can really easily draw that connection for him: If you don't do your homework, you don't get to play. I'm not saying it isn't his fault, ultimately it is, but there's fault and then there's fault.

If you're a supervisor, and your subordinate fails at something, it is technically their fault. But you are the supervisor, so you take the blame. You are responsible. I am surprised to hear comments from educators saying "well, the kid just didn't want to learn." I come from a family of teachers, and was going to be a teacher were it not for the sad state of affairs in public education these days. To a man, every teacher I know would say if a kid does not succeed in the classroom, it is a failing of the teacher, not the student.

Now there is obviously a different dynamic at the college level than high school. I think that's fairly obvious from personal observation and experience. There a detachment from most professors I had at North Texas: their main goal was academia, publishing, and furthering their career. The art of teaching was pretty much an afterthought, a condition of employment. They had little at stake when it comes to students, because, unlike intermediate teachers, their barometer of career success has nothing to do with their success or failure of their students.

Athletics, on the other hand, have a very real and direct interest in their students doing well. If they don't pass the classes, they do not play. If they can't play, the team suffers. When the team suffers, their job seat starts heating up. You MAKE the kid go to class, you MAKE SURE he knows what he needs to for the test. If you aren't willing to do that, then you'll see them starting to head for the exits like we have been recently.

untbowler · July 10, 2008

I've heard the argument that you can lead an athlete to water but can't make them drink. I know that it is ultimately up to the student to get their act together. However, I also know that they have motivations, as do all of us, and you just have to find the right button to push. If you assume Gilmore wanted to play football (and I think that is a fair assumption), then you can really easily draw that connection for him: If you don't do your homework, you don't get to play. I'm not saying it isn't his fault, ultimately it is, but there's fault and then there's fault.

That sounds good about EG, but if he really wanted to play then he would have learned from his first stint on the sideline for grades. I personally hope it is not grades this time, but if it is grades then EG should be held accountable as a 2x offender.

UNTLifer · July 10, 2008

If you were one of GODS boys you didn't have to go to spring ball if you had grade problems if you were a DD boy spring was a must. This sure as hell didn't help Eddrick out. The day Cortney left the program it went down hill, I'm glad she got the job at UT it was a big step for her.

Bitter? Care to provide proof?