More & More Are Doin' It

MeanGreen61 · July 6, 2008

Saw a post on the MWC board that in the future Air Force will schedule a 1AA or FCS team as their home opener on parents Day. Did some checking and it seems that more and more programs are scheduling a 1AA or FCS team for an additional home game. 65 of 120 FBS teams are doin' it, including Baylor, Texas Tech, SMU, Houston, TCU. If we can't get enough 6 FBS home games each year, why not schedule a 1AA/FCS team like Texas State to assure us of 6 home games? 7 away games makes it a lot harder to have a winning season.

Edited July 6, 2008 by MeanGreen61

TIgreen01 · July 6, 2008

Yep, it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

gangrene · July 6, 2008

OK, I'll bite...looking at this year's schedule, which non-conference, away game would you change in order to schedule a FCS/D-II team? Would we make more money from this home game or the game we canceled? And, what if we lost to the FCS/D-II team (Michigan lost to one last year)?? How would that affect our recruiting efforts, or would it? Just some questions to ponder. Personally, can't say I really care one way or the other.

adman · July 7, 2008

OK, I'll bite...looking at this year's schedule, which non-conference, away game would you change in order to schedule a FCS/D-II team? Would we make more money from this home game or the game we canceled? And, what if we lost to the FCS/D-II team (Michigan lost to one last year)?? How would that affect our recruiting efforts, or would it? Just some questions to ponder. Personally, can't say I really care one way or the other.

Me personally, I'll take 7 away games with names that have a bit of history and have been solid programs in the past and therefor have halo effect around them. Scheduling a Texas State cheapens our brand. We need the Army's, Navy's of the world. Winnable games that add "panache" to our program. I don't think anyone is going to rush to ticket office to see TSU at NT.

emmitt01 · July 7, 2008

Me personally, I'll take 7 away games with names that have a bit of history and have been solid programs in the past and therefor have halo effect around them. Scheduling a Texas State cheapens our brand. We need the Army's, Navy's of the world. Winnable games that add "panache" to our program. I don't think anyone is going to rush to ticket office to see TSU at NT.

I disagree. TSU fans will, and our die hards (let's face it, those are the only ones really on board right now) would. Especially if you make it your home opener so that everyone who is football starved will be there anyway. If you win, as we would and should, you add another win to the tally. Ask Texas Tech how many people put an asterisk next to their W/L record at the end of the season because they play 1AA/FCS teams. When/if they go 11-1 this season every pundit in America will be talking about their sparkling record...not the fact that it was built playing cupcakes at the front end.

untphd · July 7, 2008

OK, I'll bite...looking at this year's schedule, which non-conference, away game would you change in order to schedule a FCS/D-II team? Would we make more money from this home game or the game we canceled? And, what if we lost to the FCS/D-II team (Michigan lost to one last year)?? How would that affect our recruiting efforts, or would it? Just some questions to ponder. Personally, can't say I really care one way or the other.

I would change LSU. How many UNT fans go to that game? Playing the national champs year after year is one less home game and one less win.

MeanMag · July 7, 2008

Scheduling a Texas State cheapens our brand.

Cheapened Hawaii's brand all the way to a BCS Bowl last year.

NT80 · July 7, 2008

The problem now is with so many 1-As scheduling 1-AAs that the 1-AAs can demand six figure fees instead of just the "honor" to be on the same field with us. It's a seller's market and we can't afford to pay them to come to Fouts, but teams like Air Force and SMUt can.

GrandGreen · July 7, 2008

Please consider how relatively little NT makes on it's home games, that maybe a glue why NT does not schedule more home games. Given NT has to have "guarantee" games to come close to balancing the budget and have a home schedule that can sell a few tickets, it is easy to understand why NT doesn't rush to schedule 1-AA teams. Would you want to replace Navy last year or Tulsa this year with a 1-AA game?

VideoEagle · July 7, 2008

Please consider how relatively little NT makes on it's home games, that maybe a glue why NT does not schedule more home games. Given NT has to have "guarantee" games to come close to balancing the budget and have a home schedule that can sell a few tickets, it is easy to understand why NT doesn't rush to schedule 1-AA teams. Would you want to replace Navy last year or Tulsa this year with a 1-AA game?

It is just an attendance problem. I remember RV writing someplace that a home game of 20K to 22K was roughly equivalent to an away money game in revenue for the department. The problem is we haven't had that level of attendance in most of our games in the last few years.

eulessismore · July 7, 2008

I thought this link from the "KSU Fans" link might provide some fodder for both sides here. You can either click the first link to see it from the KSU site (and perspective), or click the second one to see the original (and complete) article.

Bill Snyder's Legacy

Art of the Cupcake Schedule

So, we were a KSU "cupcake" in those days? Maybe the first time we played them (as 1-AA, against Jim dickey in 1985) and won, it didn't work out so well. Starting in 1989, against Bill Snyder, I guess it did. This kind of makes me think there's more to building a successful program than scheduling "cupcakes", such as hiring someone who can coach and build a program, like Bill Snyder. However, looking at Snyder's KSU coaching record on the College Football Data Warehouse does show that Snyder typically scheduled weak OOC opponents throughout his time there. I think we can and should show them how things can change by beating a previously cupcake, although major conference, KSU. We need to makea win in Manhattan the start to a successful multi-year run, the way we were part of their getting started as a winning program back in 1989.

untphd · July 7, 2008

The LSU game and any future games against schools that are too chickenshit to play a return game in Denton.
If money is the reason that these idiotic games are scheduled, then fix the problem. Masking the symptoms is only detrimental to the program.
It's a lot like selling your vital organs to raise money for groceries. It may work for a very short while but it's certainly not a long tern solution.

I agree that schools should play a home and home schedule. I also agree that with 30,000 plus students we should have the money to not have these types of games. Lots of schools are playing these, but some are not. TCU is playing Stephen F A, Baylor is playing North Western st, Rice is playing Vandy, Tech is playing eastern Washington, SMU is playing tx st, UTEP is playing buffalo and 7 home games.

PS do not try selling your organs for grocery moneywithout adult supervison.

Chrisattsu · July 7, 2008

OK, I'll bite...looking at this year's schedule, which non-conference, away game would you change in order to schedule a FCS/D-II team? Would we make more money from this home game or the game we canceled? And, what if we lost to the FCS/D-II team (Michigan lost to one last year)?? How would that affect our recruiting efforts, or would it? Just some questions to ponder. Personally, can't say I really care one way or the other.

First, Don't schedule a D2. There is no point for any FBS team to schedule a D2, especially with the number of FCS teams around.

Second, I really hate it when people treat FCS as if it were equal to D2. They are not the same thing. While FCS may be perceived as a step below in the pecking order during football season, they are peers when it comes to everything else.

Now on to your questions--

Scheduling a 'lesser' team?

From what I have seen, Tarleton schedules a lesser D2 school (and they have scheduled NAIA teams) for their first home game of the season every year. Fans and alumni are starved for football, and they want to get new students excited about the team from the git-go. It may be an Blowout win, but it is a WIN none-the-less. Texas State and the other Southland teams play a D2 team early every season for the same reason.

Big XII teams do the same thing with FCS or lower-tier FBS teams. This happens at every level of play and for the same reason. People like to see a winning product. It reminds me of an old Coach-ism, "Be the Hammer". You can be a nail and walk away with your money in a bodybag game, or you can be the hammer and host a lesser team.

What if you lose?

Someone has to lose, and upsets occur every year. However, the odds are stacked in the favor of the host team. Aside from a few FCS fans, how many people remember that Nicholls State beat Rice last year? Texas State lost to Abilene Christian (D2) last year and all hell broke loose. Is it deflating? Yes, but nobody cares once you start winning games.

Will it affect recruiting?

Not really. Everyone expects you to have a tune-up game. Now, you might have a problem if you changed all of your money games from FCS games, but changing one won't hurt.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Chrisattsu

Dodge2007 · July 7, 2008

UNT has no business scheduling a AA team, absolutely none.

Green Mean · July 7, 2008

UNT has no business scheduling a AA team, absolutely none.

I am open to the idea of scheduling an FCS team but with NT's postion...what if we lose the game? That would be devastating.

Dodge2007 · July 7, 2008

I am open to the idea of scheduling an FCS team but with NT's postion...what if we lose the game? That would be devastating.

Exactly!

Chrisattsu · July 7, 2008

I am open to the idea of scheduling an FCS team but with NT's postion...what if we lose the game? That would be devastating.

What if you lose? So, just for the record, is it better to get blownout by a "known team" than play a close game with a FCS team?

North Texas since 2004 vs.

79-10 against Oklahoma

56-7 against Texas

54-7 against K-State

56-3 against LSU

65-0 against Texas

Rice lost 16-14 against Nichols State, and App State beat Michigan by a last second Field Goal.

Yes, an FCS upset might be bad, but they can serve as a rallying-point for the team to refocus.

These scores listed above are demoralizing.

As I stated above, these FCS games (and D2's at FCS games) are heavily weighted in favor of the home team. If you really want to secure a win, bring in a bottom tier team like Prairie View A&M, Texas Southern, or Northern Colorado. At least with the SWAC teams, you know that Half-time will be AWESOME.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Chrisattsu

Huff · July 7, 2008

I have not done a complete look at football schedules since 2006 but in that year North Texas was the only Division I school in Texas that did not play a Division I-AA school. Even the mighty Texas Longhorns and Texas Aggies were host to a I-AA team. If we are going to have to play a money game on the road against a school that will not return the game we need to balance our schedule by playing a game against a team where we do not have to return the game.

Green Mean · July 7, 2008

What if you lose? So, just for the record, is it better to get blownout by a "known team" than play a close game with a FCS team?
North Texas since 2004 vs.
79-10 against Oklahoma
56-7 against Texas
54-7 against K-State
56-3 against LSU
65-0 against Texas
Rice lost 16-14 against Nichols State, and App State beat Michigan by a last second Field Goal.
Yes, an FCS upset might be bad, but they can serve as a rallying-point for the team to refocus.
These scores listed above are demoralizing.
As I stated above, these FCS games (and D2's at FCS games) are heavily waited in favor of the home team. If you really want to secure a win, bring in a bottom tier team like Prairie View A&M, Texas Southern, or Northern Colorado. At least with the SWAC teams, you know that Half-time will be AWESOME.

Yes it is absolutely better to get blownout by Texas, OU, etc than to lose to an FCS team. Michigan lost to Appalachain State but they are Michigan...they are and will always be a powerhouse. Rice losing to Nichols State is absolutely embarrasing and I bet the AD will rethink schedule a lot of FCS teams in the future...atleast I would hope. I am not saying to schedule the Texas', LSU's instead of the FCS teams...but how about people somewhere on our level or lower BCS teams. How about MAC, CUSA, WAC, MWC teams? There are plenty of teams you can schedule without hopefully getting blown out 79-10.

SAY NO TO FCS TEAMS!!!!

GrandGreen · July 7, 2008

What if you lose? So, just for the record, is it better to get blownout by a "known team" than play a close game with a FCS team?
North Texas since 2004 vs.
79-10 against Oklahoma
56-7 against Texas
54-7 against K-State
56-3 against LSU
65-0 against Texas
Rice lost 16-14 against Nichols State, and App State beat Michigan by a last second Field Goal.
Yes, an FCS upset might be bad, but they can serve as a rallying-point for the team to refocus.
These scores listed above are demoralizing.
As I stated above, these FCS games (and D2's at FCS games) are heavily weighted in favor of the home team. If you really want to secure a win, bring in a bottom tier team like Prairie View A&M, Texas Southern, or Northern Colorado. At least with the SWAC teams, you know that Half-time will be AWESOME.

Although a win would be great, NT does not schedule these games because they expect to win, they schedule them to balance the budget At this time NT cannot afford to not play one or probably two guarantee games; an 1=AA game would only replace a home and home schedule with a school such as Rice, Tulsa, etc. Schools play 1=AA teams because they are relatively cheap home games with no return game necessary. "Big time" programs can play 1-AA because most of their oc games are at home and tickets sales are not a problem. NT with a max of 2 oc home games greatly downgrades its home schedule and gains nothing IMO from a win.

TIgreen01 · July 7, 2008

Although a win would be great, NT does not schedule these games because they expect to win, they schedule them to balance the budget At this time NT cannot afford to not play one or probably two guarantee games; an 1=AA game would only replace a home and home schedule with a school such as Rice, Tulsa, etc. Schools play 1=AA teams because they are relatively cheap home games with no return game necessary. "Big time" programs can play 1-AA because most of their oc games are at home and tickets sales are not a problem. NT with a max of 2 oc home games greatly downgrades its home schedule and gains nothing IMO from a win.

Who says we would replace Navy/Tulsa/Rice as home games?! I don't understand this logic. Why would it be anything other than having an ADDITIONAL home game to start the season---as opposed to an away game at KSU/OU/Texas/LSU, we'd get a directional FCS team and beat the hell out of them....in front of 22k fans. Then, when Tulsa showed up in week 2, we'd have 25k fans ready to see us be competitive and beat the hell oughta them, too. As it stands right now, we're going to have 5 home games this season. Week 2, we're going to come in with a 0-1 record (after not winning a single body bag game in 9 years I think this is pretty much a certainty) and hopefully draw 25k if we don't get beat too badly in week 1.

I think RV has done a better job with our schedules, recently, but I'd really like to know what the numbers REALLY are that support our still current plan of taking a loss in game 1 every year? Are we really balancing the budget with these games?...or do we just think that we can't draw well enough in successive weeks to open the season? How much (in attendance and $$) do we have to make in one home game to offset the body bag money?

PHSCoach · July 7, 2008

It is just an attendance problem. I remember RV writing someplace that a home game of 20K to 22K was roughly equivalent to an away money game in revenue for the department. The problem is we haven't had that level of attendance in most of our games in the last few years.

I think RV has done a better job with our schedules, recently, but I'd really like to know what the numbers REALLY are that support our still current plan of taking a loss in game 1 every year? Are we really balancing the budget with these games?...or do we just think that we can't draw well enough in successive weeks to open the season? How much (in attendance and $$) do we have to make in one home game to offset the body bag money?

To replace the LSU game we would have to avg. $50-$75 per person to offset the income good luck with that in Denton. In 2006 the SMU game's income was somewhere around $251,000 the LSU game will be $700,000 less travel expenses. The SMU game was a home and home so the two year avg. income for that game would be abut $125,000 don't plan on paying the bills with that

Edited July 7, 2008 by PHSCoach

emmitt01 · July 7, 2008

UNT has no business scheduling a AA team, absolutely none.

You're absolutely right....no more business than Texas Tech, OU, half of the Big Ten, several CUSA teams......

VideoEagle · July 7, 2008

To replace the LSU game we would have to avg. $50-$75 per person to offset the income good luck with that in Denton. In 2006 the SMU game's income was somewhere around $251,000 the LSU game will be $700,000 less travel expenses. The SMU game was a home and home so the two year avg. income for that game would be abut $125,000 don't plan on paying the bills with that

You might want to double check your math. If we were to get 25K fans, they only have to spend $28 each to equal $700K.

Now, 25K doesn't happen very often and that is the problem. We need to up our average attendance. It was four or five years ago when I read about a home game with 20K to 22K being roughly equal to a "money" game and the payouts then were $400K to $500K. At an average of just $20 a person, we would need 20K in attendance to equal $400K. Or $22.73 a person and 22K in attendance to equal $500K.

MeanGreen61 · July 7, 2008

If we have 6 1A (FBS) home opponents great ! If not why go on the road for a 7th games ? Isn't the goal ONE money game a year ? With a 1AA home opponent:

6 away games

1 Money game (LSU, Texas, etc)

1 Away home & home with "mid-major" (SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Houston, Army)

4 conference games

home games

1 1AA opener (Texas State, SFA, etc)

1 Home & home with mid-major

4 conference games

In '06 we had OC away games with Texas,Akron & Tulsa. Who thinks we made more traveling to Akron that we would have if we'd hosted a 1AA for our opener ?

Edited July 7, 2008 by MeanGreen61