Origins Of The "mean" Green Defense....

[FirefightnRick]

Under the faces pictured at the top reads:

JAMES IVY..Steals kids' candy. LINDY ENDSLEY..Cheats at Marbles. JOE GREENE...Kicks puppies. RET LITTLE...Slugs old ladies. CHARLES BEATTY...The Hatchet. HENRY HOLLAND...Tears up dolls. BOB TUCKER...Oh, yes. Tucker's the pretty fellow on page one. He likes to let air out of wheel chair tires.

MEAN GREEN ON THE LOOSE! Defense Swallows Foes For NTSU.

"By Randy Galloway....Dallas Morning News

In the the days of the "Lean Green" the North Texas State defense was no laughing matter.

....unless, of course, you happened to play for the opposition.

The Eagles were mired in a situation where the touchdowns came easy, but so did the loses because the defense couldn't keep up with a whirlwind offense.

But times have changed, and so has the Eagle record. The whirlwind offense is still as much a part of

North Texas State football as always, it's the defense that was overhauled and renamed.

Now it's the "MEAN GREEN" and the group hit the Missouri Valley Conference and Denton with a giant impact.

AROUND THE NTSU campus, the Mean Green, a phrase originated by Sidney Graham, wife of the Eagles' sports information director, has become a second nickname.

And now the offensive-minded MVC is now beginning to notice defense, which is the way it should be, believes Eagle coach Rod Rust.

"There's no doubt that the first requirement of winning in football is to play good defense." he offered. "You'll never see a winner without one."

Which is a point reflected in the Eagles' recent success. That 8-2 record last year came on the heels of three consecutive losing seasons. Since the offensive team was nearly intact from 1965, a principal reason for the improvement had to be in the defense.

THEN WHEN Rust took over from the retiring Odus Mitchell last spring(1967), he had seven defensive regulars to build around and his record is now a hefty, 5-0-1, including two conference victories.

"Since our offense was young and incexperienced, if we hadn't had the good defense, we would have been in rouble." said Rust. "It pulled us out of some tight

situations especially earlier in the year."

The most heralded Eagle defender has been junior tackle Joe Greene, a 6-4, 280-pound All America candidate. But against Cincinnati two weeks ago, Big Joe was slowed by an ankle injury and wasn't up to his usual par. Nonetheless, the potent Bearcat offense only got one touchdown against the Mean Green, that on a tipped pass that went for 60 yards.

"WE'VE BEEN stressing the fact that the defense has had balance all season." Rust stated. "Our personnel matches up real well at each position and we don't have a weak sister."

Henry Holland (6-2 225) teams with Greene at tackle to make this probably the strongest spot on the unit although linebackers Johnny Mata and James Ivy are also an excellent duo. Lindy Endsley (6-6 260) moved over from offense to fill the middle guard vacancy and had perhaps his finest game againt Cincinnati.

Bob Tucker has done a consistently good job at right end but there'll be a new face on the other side of the line Saturday afternoon when the Eagles host Wichita State in the homecoming clash.

JAMES GIBSON was sidelined for the season with a knee injury against Cincinnati and sophomore Bob Benton will get the starting call.

Three newcomers, Ret Little, Bernie Barbour and Mike Shook, joined returning starter Charles (Hatchet) Beatty in the secondary and while this section has been under plenty of fire from the opposition because of the inexperience, it has been one of the bright spots so far.

Shook leads the MVC in interceptions with six, while Little and Beatty have five apiece.

Obviously, Rust has been pleased with the overall performance.

"The things we like about deffense are: No. 1. it keeps the enemy off the scoreboard: No. 2. it gets the ball for you and No. 3. it gets and holds field position.

"These are the things that make a good defense."

Perhaps Mata, a 200 pound demon, best summed it up. "I'd like to establish some defensive tradition before I leave here." he said.

The Mean Green has taken a step in that direction."

Over the years I have seen and heard folks state that the origins of the North Texas Eagles nickname, The Mean Green, came about because "Mean" Joe Greene played for us. Back when I didn't know any better and used to listen to The Ticket, that hack Craig Miller would consistently make fun of North Texas saying things such as "How lame is it when your athletic team is only known for and named after a player from 30 years ago?". Then there was th ESPN2 home game a few years ago, can't remember which game it was, hopefully someone here will remind us of which one it was, that an ESPN sideline female reporter is given a minute to outright tell the the country that our teams are named after Joe Greene? It's even in the write up under "Mascot" on Wikipedia HERE.

Athletic teams are referred to as the "Mean Green." This name is usually associated with football star and 1969 graduate "Mean" Joe Greene, a legendary member of the famous Steel Curtain defense of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers; however, accounts vary about the actual origins of "Mean Green".

Well folks, the above article written by Randy Galloway for the Dallas Morning News in 1967 outright undermines the "Mean" Joe Greene version of the story and tells the truth about the Mean Green origin. This newspaper clip was sent to me by our friend drex, who has had it in his collection since it was printed. This article is a play on the defense becoming "Mean", that's why the players are pictured above with Mean things they are suppose to be known for. Then it mentions exactly how the term Mean Green came about and who first coined the term. Then it mentions Joe Greene. And interestingly, in an article that is deliberately trying to label each player with a Mean name(see Beatty listed as THE HATCHET), refers to him as "BIG" Joe, not "Mean" Joe Greene. I would honestly believe if Joe Greene was known as "Mean" Joe Greene in 1967 Galloway would have certainly referred to him as such. drex also sent me the article of the MVC champoinship game later on during that same 1967 year against Tulsa in which it mentions Joe Greene getting hurt and being taken out of that game early. No mention of "Mean" Joe Greene. The truth is Joe Greene was a part of and played for The Mean Green defense, not that the North Texas defense recieved it's nickname from "Mean" Joe Greene playing at North Texas. I have been told, but cannot substantiate it yet, that he wasn't even referred to as "Mean" Joe Greene until after he was drafted by Pittsburgh when a Pittsburgh newspaper reporter first referred to him as such. Regardless, our nickname, like so many other aspects of our university's unique accomplishments that are usually ignored, made fun of or incorrectly told as a result of many faults, mainly our own, has a tradition that stands on it's own merit and the story needs to be told correctly. I would also like for our athletic department to get this story straight on their official references.

Thoughts?

Rick

Edited June 25, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[SilverEagle]

I think that it goes without saying that this needs to be sent to the SID at the athletic department. This also needs to be sent to George Dunham at the Ticket with a request that it be discussed on the air.

Also, someone needs to interview all of the more "Senior" North Texas fans and get an oral history of our athletic program. There is a lot of information about North Texas athletics that could be lost otherwise.

[Marty]

What an awesome article, love those '60's player pics.

[filmerj]

Then once the story is straight, it has to get to the national media outlets, also the job of the sid. It would be easier to get it straight if we had national tv coverage. Cool article though.

[NT1978]

Then once the story is straight, it has to get to the national media outlets, also the job of the sid. It would be easier to get it straight if we had national tv coverage. Cool article though.

I can see the headline now "North Texas State clears up Mean Green controversy"

[filmerj]

I can see the headline now "North Texas State clears up Mean Green controversy"

Nice.

[greenminer]

In the the days of the "Lean Green" the North Texas State defense was no laughing matter.

....unless, of course, you happened to play for the opposition.

The Eagles were mired in a situation where the touchdowns came easy, but so did the loses because the defense couldn't keep up with a whirlwind offense.

What a negative Nancy, always dwelling on the past.

Jerk. Why did he have to bring up our ghosts?

[NTPhiKap99]

The Eagles were mired in a situation where the touchdowns came easy, but so did the loses because the defense couldn't keep up with a whirlwind offense.

So history really does repeat itself.

I'm glad I finally know where it came from but why did it have to be Galloway he has always annoyed me.

Edited June 25, 2008 by NTPhiKap99

[greenjoe]

this should be required reading for incoming freshmen. And the SID needs to get the story out to every sports nook and cranny.

And how about pinning this here at GMG so we can send people interested to read the real beginning of Mean Green ?

And, the full story needs to be printed in every issue of the North Texas game day program.

Edited June 25, 2008 by greenjoe

[Green P1]

Why not ask Randy Galloway to address it on his afternoon show? It is his article. He loves to bore his co-hosts with his "Father Time" monologues. This would be perfect for it.

Or we could just announce it ourselves. Everyone on here could tell one different person every day the true origin of the "Mean Green." I think after 2 days we'd have reached more individuals than Mr. Galloway.

[greenminer]

And how about pinning this here at GMG so we can send people interested to read the real beginning of Mean Green ?

Sounds like a good idea.

[Quoner]

Or we could just announce it ourselves. Everyone on here could tell one different person every day the true origin of the "Mean Green." I think after 2 days we'd have reached more individuals than Mr. Galloway.

I just told a New York-based reporter visiting to do a long series on a client all about our proud history of this nickname.

He asked me what I was talking about and calmly continued eating his sandwich. No one said this was going to be easy.

[NT Drummer]

Rick, you should send a copy to the staff of "The North Texan".

[ADLER]

What an awesome article, love those '60's player pics.

College Football Hall of Fame

Denton Live Magazine "Greene played for UNT from 1966-68. The Eagles later became known as the “Mean Green,” an alternate nickname brought about by Mean Joe’s legacy and the school colors." Ugh, thanks SID.

I actually own the original photograph of Mean Joe that was taken by a Star-Telegram photographer and used for the Nov 15, 1967 article. (It's this one where Joe has his hands out in front in an action pose). Topps uses a similar pose for Joe Greene in their College All-American cards except Joe has his hands down by his hips.

[GreenAlums]

I think that it goes without saying that this needs to be sent to the SID at the athletic department. This also needs to be sent to George Dunham at the Ticket with a request that it be discussed on the air.

Also, someone needs to interview all of the more "Senior" North Texas fans and get an oral history of our athletic program. There is a lot of information about North Texas athletics that could be lost otherwise.

This is great timing if George will run with it. A hot offense and a horrible "laughable" defense last year with the renewed defensive committment this year seems to be a perfect parallel for the upcoming season. This would be great press to tie the 1967 team with the current day Mean Green!

[drex]

Since we are tip toeing down memory lane, here is another little tid bit. In '68 the Sigma Nu fraternity printed bumper stickers that simply said MEAN GREEN and they did buttons with MEAN GREEN '68 on them. This was the first printed advertising for the football team at North Texas that I had ever seen. In '68 one of my fraternity brothers, Kerry Hubble, did the artwork for the cover of the media guide and it showed a big green football with MEAN GREEN '68 on it as well as a player about to catch a pass. The Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity then printed bumper stickers with that art on it and gave them away to fans. In '68 there were big pep rallies outside of Men's gym before games. Also in '68 when we played Arkansas up there I did a banner that said Sooie Fooie Go Mean Green and proudly hung in on the stadium railing.

[CorinthEagle]

I just told a New York-based reporter visiting to do a long series on a client all about our proud history of this nickname.

He asked me what I was talking about and calmly continued eating his sandwich. No one said this was going to be easy.

underated

[Green Mean]

It is still odd because growing up and up until I started attending UNT I always knew us as the North Texas Eagles. Mean Green was a nickname but not official. I think I just need to give up on this topic...its gives me tired head.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---No doubt the "Mean Green" phrase became very common during the Joe Green era and that Mrs. Graham is largely responsible for it getting to be a common phrase that has survived since his graduation. This I have heard forever. I graduated in 1966, just prior to this article (by one year) but I think I had heard it while I was a student. My memory (which could be bad) is that is was extremely rarely used. I have looked in a couple annuals can not find it used in them [ 1966, 1965 ] . No doubt this current use of Mean Green comes from this team, 1967, but as it is with most things, there was a background in which it was sometimes used. Even the "creator" of Monopoly had lifted ideas for his game from earlier less popular versions.

---It would be interesting for someone older than I am to look at some older annuals or old newspaper (if they have any, I have a few) and see if the phrase shows up. I have not found one.

---The current use no doubt goes to Mrs. Graham, her husband (sport infomation director that used it publicly), and the team that existed then which included Joe Green. I believe that the team name came first, and then Joe picked it up from that.

---Lots of names in that article that became well known... maybe not so much today but they were for several years in the NFL..

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

OH MY GAWD>>>>

WTF happened? I was not aware Greek life was ever so involved.

The biggest change at North Texas sportswise has been the attendance and rabid fans at basketball games. With Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Wichita, Drake, Bradley, etc. coming to town--- they were wild and crazy and we deserved the title "Snake Pit". We would fill the old Men's Gym and only had a student body of about 13,000...not 33,000.

[Censored by Laurie]

Meet my brother

[FirefightnRick]

---No doubt the "Mean Green" phrase became very common during the Joe Green era and that Mrs. Graham is largely responsible for it getting to be a common phrase that has survived since his graduation. This I have heard forever. I graduated in 1966, just prior to this article (by one year) but I think I had heard it while I was a student. My memory (which could be bad) is that is was extremely rarely used. I have looked in a couple annuals can not find it used in them [ 1966, 1965 ] . No doubt this current use of Mean Green comes from this team, 1967, but as it is with most things, there was a background in which it was sometimes used.

I wonder when the first time "Mean Green" and it's origin was actually written about? Surely after the successful '66 season in which we finished 8-2 there had to be something put in print by the DRC about it prior to this article above?

Rick

[SilverEagle]

Is Sydney Graham still alive? If so, perhaps someone could get an interview with her to get the whole story. Also (if she's still alive) honoring her during a home game would be a good thing.

[Ibleedgreen]

Screaming Eagle...I arrived at North Texas as a freshman in 1967. I distinctly remember putting a bumper sticker on my car either that fall or the fall of 1968 that said, "Mean Green." The reason I remember is that my brother, a graduate of OU, looked at that bumper sticker and said, "WHAT is a Mean Green?" I answered him, "Oh...that's kinda like a Big Red." Then he understood.

[filmerj]

"WHAT is a Mean Green?" .

People are still asking the question.