D-day

KRAM1 · June 6, 2008

While you will not see much mention of it in the papers today, this is the anniversary of D-Day...the invasion on the beaches of Normandy, France that spelled doom for Hitler's Nazi regime in WWII.

I saw no mention of it in today's Dallas Morning News, and that, my friends, is a shame. I know D-Day took place 60+ years ago, but it is a day that we should NEVER forget. More Allied soldiers were killed or wounded on D-Day than I would like to recall. I stood on the beaches at Normandy a couple of years ago, and I can tell you that it took a brave soul to charge that beach under the extremely heavy and accurate fire that the German's were laying down. What allows a soldier to brave that fire is beyond me. I am a Viet Nam era vet, but spent my time in the Air Force in Missouri as a nuclear missle combat crew member, so have not seen combat, and can hardly imagine the situation of actually being "under fire".

Let's all remember the brave souls who risked it all...and gave it all...to help defeat Nazi Germany.

While we are at it, let's say a prayer for all the men and women in the service of this great nation wherever they may be on the anniversary of D-Day. May God protect and bless them one and all.

GOD BLESS AMERICA and the men and women who protect and serve!

KingDL1 · June 6, 2008

While you will not see much mention of it in the papers today, this is the anniversary of D-Day...the invasion on the beaches of Normandy, France that spelled doom for Hitler's Nazi regime in WWII.
I saw no mention of it in today's Dallas Morning News, and that, my friends, is a shame. I know D-Day took place 60+ years ago, but it is a day that we should NEVER forget. More Allied soldiers were killed or wounded on D-Day than I would like to recall. I stood on the beaches at Normandy a couple of years ago, and I can tell you that it took a brave soul to charge that beach under the extremely heavy and accurate fire that the German's were laying down. What allows a soldier to brave that fire is beyond me. I am a Viet Nam era vet, but spent my time in the Air Force in Missouri as a nuclear missle combat crew member, so have not seen combat, and can hardly imagine the situation of actually being "under fire".
Let's all remember the brave souls who risked it all...and gave it all...to help defeat Nazi Germany.
While we are at it, let's say a prayer for all the men and women in the service of this great nation wherever they may be on the anniversary of D-Day. May God protect and bless them one and all.
GOD BLESS AMERICA and the men and women who protect and serve!

Honor is definitely due, we can never thank those enough who lost life and limb, to protect and preserve our freedom.

God Bless America!!

Edited June 6, 2008 by KingDL1

Quoner · June 6, 2008

I spent last week putting a media event together to honor Veterans for one of my clients and was amazed at how well the whole thing went off from a logistics level. It was great to see so many people who sacrificed so much tear up as they were honored individually.

This was another major media market several states away, but we only had a few crews come out to cover it, because, while 77 veterans were being honored, Memorial Day had already passed and people "just wouldn't care about that kind of story after just seeing it."

Green Mean · June 6, 2008

D-day is a very fascinating event. By far WWII was best part for me to study. Our troops changed the face of the world after that war. God bless them and all the troops that still serve today.

Censored by Laurie · June 6, 2008

Ah...the Day of Days. One of the most amazing tactical feats in the history of war...launch attacks on six venues simultaniously and convince your foe to send the bulk of their troops to another location...the death toll could've and probably should've been considerably higher...and while they may be the crux of many of your jokes, the French Resistance was vital to keeping the Allied death toll down by channelling misinformation of the venues and destroying infrastructure back to the Normandy beaches.

Technically an Allied loss (~10,000 DCorW Allies vs. ~8000 Germans), tactically this essentially pushed the Germans out of France altogether, no longer being able to control the Channel coast.

I'm not a big military historian, but this day has always interested me because of the intracacies of the planning and coordination of so many down to fractions of a second.

If only we still had that ability.

KRAM1 · June 6, 2008

Our military leaders DO still have that ability and they are proving it day after day in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Our military is second to none, they just need to get the politicians out of the way sometimes.

And, yes, the French Resistance was an essential part of the D-Day landings. Without these very brave fighters D-Day could have turned into a complete disaster! While in Normandy it was interesting to see all the American Flags flying. I would guess I saw more American, British and canadian flags flying than I did French flags. One resident of Normandy told me "we don't like the people in Paris either"! Ha! How funny. They seemed to have the same opinion of "government", and all the "screw-ups they create as we seem to have. The people in Normandy have not forgotten and will not forget!

And, just an interesting fact...did you know that Normandy was the only region in France NOT to produce wine? They produce Apple Cider and man is it ever great!

FirefightnRick · June 7, 2008

While you will not see much mention of it in the papers today, this is the anniversary of D-Day...the invasion on the beaches of Normandy, France that spelled doom for Hitler's Nazi regime in WWII.
I saw no mention of it in today's Dallas Morning News, and that, my friends, is a shame. I know D-Day took place 60+ years ago, but it is a day that we should NEVER forget. More Allied soldiers were killed or wounded on D-Day than I would like to recall. I stood on the beaches at Normandy a couple of years ago, and I can tell you that it took a brave soul to charge that beach under the extremely heavy and accurate fire that the German's were laying down. What allows a soldier to brave that fire is beyond me. I am a Viet Nam era vet, but spent my time in the Air Force in Missouri as a nuclear missle combat crew member, so have not seen combat, and can hardly imagine the situation of actually being "under fire".
Let's all remember the brave souls who risked it all...and gave it all...to help defeat Nazi Germany.
While we are at it, let's say a prayer for all the men and women in the service of this great nation wherever they may be on the anniversary of D-Day. May God protect and bless them one and all.
GOD BLESS AMERICA and the men and women who protect and serve!

Great post. I doubt there will ever be a greater generation of people in this nation.

Rick

UNTLifer · June 9, 2008

If only we still had that ability.

We do, but the media insists on riding along and reporting everything. Imagine what could be done without the media broadcasting everything worldwide.

Cerebus · June 10, 2008

Technically an Allied loss (~10,000 DCorW Allies vs. ~8000 Germans), tactically this essentially pushed the Germans out of France altogether, no longer being able to control the Channel coast.
I'm not a big military historian, but this day has always interested me because of the intracacies of the planning and coordination of so many down to fractions of a second.

I do enjoy military history, and while d-day is an amazing story, never forget we mostly faced inexperienced troops, home guard troops and "ost" troops, with withdrawn panzer support because of the eastern front.

The scope of the eastern front war between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany dwarfed the rest of WWII combined.

Of the 5.5 million German combat troops killed, about 4.3 million were killed by the soviets in the eastern front, or about 80%.

WWII killed about .32% of the USA's population, almost 1% of the UK's, about 1.35% of France's, 10.5% of Germany's and somewhere between 13-20% of the Soviet Union.

KRAM1 · June 10, 2008

As I understand it from my study, not all the German troops facing the Allies on D-Day were "inexperienced" as you report. The Allies faced withering fire from "dug in" positions in many areas of the landings. Positions manned by experienced and even SS troops. While losses on the Eastern front were SIGNIFICANTLY higher some of that can be attributed to the "stubborness" of both Hitler and Stalin. Stalin cared little for the "common soldier" and felt large losses were quite acceptable. Hitler continued to make blunder after blunder on the Eastern front and had little interest in following the recommendations from his generals in the field. Attacking the Soviet Union was probably the biggest blunder Hitler made and certainly spelled doom for Germany. Stalin was content to "sit it out" pretty much and take the spoils he and Hitler were going to split after the war, but Germany attacked and that brought the Soviets into the war against Germany. Churchill and Roosevelt both knew Stalin was not a true "partner", but they made a "pact with the devil" to win the war.

Germany was not a "fangless tiger" at the time of the D-Day invasion of France, but it was certainly wounded badly...but you know what happens when a tiger is wounded! Lots of fight left before, during and after the actual D-Day invasion. Just check with some of the vets of D-day and "the Bulge" and the march on to Berlin.

The history of WWII is VERY interesting...I often wonder why the war in the Pacific is not given as much attention as the European conflict. There are, of course, some interesting speculation on that point as well.

Cerebus · June 10, 2008

As I understand it from my study, not all the German troops facing the Allies on D-Day were "inexperienced" as you report. The Allies faced withering fire from "dug in" positions in many areas of the landings. Positions manned by experienced and even SS troops.

From what I know, there where 5 German divisions in the active landing area.

* The 716th ID was mainly composed of those deemed "unfit for active duty", and "Ost" units. Ost units where compromised of a mix of conscripts from occupied countries like France and Poland, and POW's from the soviet front. With German officers "commanding" them.

*The 352nd ID WAS composed of well trained combat veterans, and they are what made landing on Omaha such a nightmare.

*The 91st ALD was a air landing (thin airborne) unit formed only months before d-day.

*The 709th ID was primarily made of ost units.

As you can imagine the ost units were a total disaster to the Germans, and in many cases shot their officers and surrendered. The 91st ALD was inexperienced, the 352nd was very tough and that is why Omaha so terrible.

Of course, the real danger was the Panzer divisions held in reserve. If they had been closer or had been sent forward in a timely manner, they would have swept the allies of the beaches. Eisenhower told a biographer this was his biggest worry and that is why he took the step of drafting a letter blaming the failed invasion on himself.

If the vast majority of the Panzer divisions where not getting blown up by the soviets, then things could have turned out very differently.

Of course the Hitlers didn't do himself any favors by 1) being fooled by the allies deception campaign and stationing most of his veteran troops at Calais and 2) being a control freak and not letting his FM's have control over the Panzer divisions, which delayed them too long.

SilverEagle · June 10, 2008

From what I know, there where 5 German divisions in the active landing area.
* The 716th ID was mainly composed of those deemed "unfit for active duty", and "Ost" units. Ost units where compromised of a mix of conscripts from occupied countries like France and Poland, and POW's from the soviet front. With German officers "commanding" them.
*The 352nd ID WAS composed of well trained combat veterans, and they are what made landing on Omaha such a nightmare.
*The 91st ALD was a air landing (thin airborne) unit formed only months before d-day.
*The 709th ID was primarily made of ost units.
As you can imagine the ost units were a total disaster to the Germans, and in many cases shot their officers and surrendered. The 91st ALD was inexperienced, the 352nd was very tough and that is why Omaha so terrible.
Of course, the real danger was the Panzer divisions held in reserve. If they had been closer or had been sent forward in a timely manner, they would have swept the allies of the beaches. Eisenhower told a biographer this was his biggest worry and that is why he took the step of drafting a letter blaming the failed invasion on himself.
If the vast majority of the Panzer divisions where not getting blown up by the soviets, then things could have turned out very differently.
Of course the Hitlers didn't do himself any favors by 1) being fooled by the allies deception campaign and stationing most of his veteran troops at Calais and 2) being a control freak and not letting his FM's have control over the Panzer divisions, which delayed them too long.

If Germany had not invaded the Soviet Union, D-Day would have been much different........and much later.

Censored by Laurie · June 10, 2008

Shhh...I think I effectivly ended that thread.

UNT_playmaker · June 10, 2008

Greatest Generation Period....

Hard working, ethical, and able to get the job done.

We should could us their help in our hot spots today. The Iraq War is now going to overtake the duration of WWII. Sad

KingDL1 · June 10, 2008

Greatest Generation Period....
Hard working, ethical, and able to get the job done.
We should could us their help in our hot spots today. The Iraq War is now going to overtake the duration of WWII. Sad

Iraq is not really a war, Iraq surrendered years ago. These are just insurgent attacks, just in the old days we would not have put up with the PC BS side of it and would have just kick butt. But better in Iraq then on the soil of the United States for these extreme Muslim Terrorists.

Censored by Laurie · June 10, 2008

Greatest Generation Period....
Hard working, ethical, and able to get the job done.

When ranking the generations I've always thought the African slaves brought to the Americas between 1820-1860 was more of a dynasty than the WWII team...their ethics were occassionally questionable (see Denmark Vesey, Gabriel Prosser, Nat Turner)...but in terms of hard working I think they had no equal.

Later...many of them would serve in the military as well.

Quoner · June 11, 2008

Mission Accomplished (this reply works for the last four posts)

UNTLifer · June 11, 2008

When ranking the generations I've always thought the African slaves brought to the Americas between 1820-1860 was more of a dynasty than the WWII team...their ethics were occassionally questionable (see Denmark Vesey, Gabriel Prosser, Nat Turner)...but in terms of hard working I think they had no equal.
Later...many of them would serve in the military as well.

Nice...a thread about the brave soldiers of WWII and you hijack it with this. Feel better?

Quoner · June 11, 2008

Nice...a thread about the brave soldiers of WWII and you hijack it with this. Feel better?

More Playmaker - less CBL!

God bless America!

Just because a thread is about soldiers doesn't mean social checks and balances vanish.

Censored by Laurie · June 11, 2008

Nice...a thread about the brave soldiers of WWII and you hijack it with this. Feel better?

I never felt poorly...though I do appreciate the concern. If you would care to take the time to read the first page...you'll notice I already contributed worthwhile-y to the topic of this thread. I also happened to notice that this thread was about to take a kamikazi nose dive right into the hull of the U.S.S. Iraq War Debate (you like the WWII reference?)...so I figured it was as good a time as any to put an end to it...though, not like Truman in '45.

If you would care to continue the WWII discussion sometime I would be more than happy to indulge you...I am working on a masters in History...and while WWII is by no means an area of expertise...I certainly do find it fascinating. Also...if you would care to discuss the social history of Antebellum America, especially as it pertains to slavery and race relations in the South...particularly slave insurrections and violent abolitionism (which is my area of "expertise")...I am always apt for that as well.

In summary...thank you for your earnest post UNTLifer...but I don't need your assistance to come off sounding like an Anti-American ass...I will do just fine in presenting myself as such on my own.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Censored by Laurie

UNTflyer · June 11, 2008

I would pay to see a tag team match with CBL-Spike Lee in one corner and UNTLifer-Clint Eastwood in the other.

FirefightnRick · June 11, 2008

If you would care to continue the WWII discussion sometime I would be more than happy to indulge you...I am working on a masters in History...

I hate to ask, but what do you plan on doing with that?

Rick

Edited June 11, 2008 by FirefightnRick

Censored by Laurie · June 11, 2008

I would pay to see a tag team match with CBL-Spike Lee in one corner and UNTLifer-Clint Eastwood in the other.

Sorry man, I'm a pacifist

I hate to ask, but what do you plan on doing with that?
Rick

Get my Phd and shape the brains of future generations of great Americans.

Or I'm gonna stop my Masters and just start collecting bachelors in various and unrelated fields.

Or I'm gonna open up a bar.

Right now bar is on top

Quoner · June 11, 2008

Sorry man, I'm a pacifist
Get my Phd and shape the brains of future generations of great Americans.
Or I'm gonna stop my Masters and just start collecting bachelors in various and unrelated fields.
Or I'm gonna open up a bar.
Right now bar is on top

Be like me - get a major, a minor and a masters and then do something barely related.

It's awesome.

Censored by Laurie · June 11, 2008

I would like to call to your attention the life of Pieter Menten. Mr. Menten was a very wealthy art collector who had a 40 room mansion about 20 miles outside of Amsterdam.

However...he aquired much of his art and wealth by killing Jews.

I just don't think I could sleep at night.