New Proposed Unt Football Stadium

[Stan R]

No, but they were saying "45k or I-AA!" It's going to be the new bumper sticker at tailgating events.

Well, it is catchy and it DOES rhyme..

[KingDL1]

Low expectations... or realistic goals?

No, its just very low expectations disguised as realistic goals.

[UNTflyer]

I do think if we really feel that 30,000 is more then enough for the future with a cap at 50,000, we should pack it in.

Nobody is saying that... we're saying it is more than enough RIGHT NOW.

I just think that if the fans demand a huge stadium, it will never be built. We can't raise that kind of money. But if we have a new expandable stadium, we can use that to help build up the program. And I don't think that 50,000 is the absolute maximum. From what I understand, they are looking at a stadium designed to be expanded to 50k. History has show that stadiums can be expanded further than they were originally designed.

Get the new stadium built. If the fans show up and the demand is there, future growth will happen.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Nobody is saying that... we're saying it is more than enough RIGHT NOW.

I just think that if the fans demand a huge stadium, it will never be built. We can't raise that kind of money. But if we have a new expandable stadium, we can use that to help build up the program. And I don't think that 50,000 is the absolute maximum. From what I understand, they are looking at a stadium designed to be expanded to 50k. History has show that stadiums can be expanded further than they were originally designed.

Get the new stadium built. If the fans show up and the demand is there, future growth will happen.

So again, how much will it take for us to start the project for the 30k stadium? We have 6 million now, how much more do we need to get the ground turning?

[UNTflyer]

So again, how much will it take for us to start the project for the 30k stadium? We have 6 million now, how much more do we need to get the ground turning?

If 10% is the norm, we should be there.

[greenminer]

No, its just very low expectations disguised as realistic goals.

Where do you think we should stack ourselves against?

I'm starting to get the impression you think we should be 50K expandable to 80K. You're nutty if you think that this metroplex is going to adopt us like Michigan or Ohio State if we start winning. I like what Dodge said when he wants us to be the team of the metro, but I think he was referring to the colleges.

Maybe I am disgusting you, but I just don't see us becoming SO powerful that we are pulling all the revenue spenders away from their Cowboys, Stars, Mavs, baseball, high school, Desperados expenditures. That does not make us a pitiful D-1 program. I'm of the opinion that if we start at 30K and expand to accomodate a future average of 45 - 50, we are a healthy, legit program. Where does this stand in the metroplex on a historic level? When SMU and TCU were dominating college football, were they getting everyone in the metro involved?

The UTs and OUs of the world (and some of Flyer's listed above) are in markets where they don't have to compete with top pro-clubs, and the programs have been winning - dominating - for decades.

[Green Mean]

We are all hoping and assuming that this program will get back to where it was a few years ago and even better than that. I think we all truly believe that this program has a lot of potential and with 35K current students and in a top 6 media market, and 7 million people in this DFW area, that is huge huge power if NT has the brains to utilize it. If we start winning and start creating buzz, believe me, getting 45K people to watch NT play will not be a tough task. Athletics is VERY VERY POWERFUL and if you create buzz and start winning, the people will come. My former high school plays in a stadium sits 20K. We are a D1 program that has 35K students and expected to be about 45K in the next 5 years or so. If we can only muster up a 30K seat stadium, its only showing that we are not as committed that we have no desire to compete with the big boys. And by big boys I mean lower to mid level BCS programs. No one will ever take us seriously if we just settle for the bare minimum. We always talk about how we dont get respect and we wanna be like the big boys one day but with the attitude and mindset I am seeing here...its a direct reflection of what NT athletics really is. Maybe its not the administration and the BOR only...its the alumni as well that have this "settle" mentality. We need to shoot for 50K to start out with(expandable to 80K one day) and we dont have to expand for a long long time unless this program totally explodes but 50K would be perfect. We would attract lower to mid level BCS schools from all the conferences that people know and have heard of and believe me people would come and they would get excited. As much as the Sunbelt has improved....NO ONE KNOWS THEM NOR DOES ANYONE GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT THE SCHOOLS IN IT. Its just the way it is whether we like it or not.

[Green Mean]

Where do you think we should stack ourselves against?

I'm starting to get the impression you think we should be 50K expandable to 80K. You're nutty if you think that this metroplex is going to adopt us like Michigan or Ohio State if we start winning. I like what Dodge said when he wants us to be the team of the metro, but I think he was referring to the colleges.

Maybe I am disgusting you, but I just don't see us becoming SO powerful that we are pulling all the revenue spenders away from their Cowboys, Stars, Mavs, baseball, high school, Desperados expenditures. That does not make us a pitiful D-1 program. I'm of the opinion that if we start at 30K and expand to accomodate a future average of 45 - 50, we are a healthy, legit program. Where does this stand in the metroplex on a historic level? When SMU and TCU were dominating college football, were they getting everyone in the metro involved?

The UTs and OUs of the world (and some of Flyer's listed above) are in markets where they don't have to compete with top pro-clubs, and the programs have been winning - dominating - for decades.

I dont want NT to be the school of the metroplex...I want it to be its own school competing on a state, national and global level. Thats what makes a powerful university.

[TIgreen01]

...some posters in this thread are a bit out of touch with reality.

[KingDL1]

...some posters in this thread are a bit out of touch with reality.

So what is reality? I am interested.

[Green Mean]

...some posters in this thread are a bit out of touch with reality.

If there is committment, desire and passion that can all change but looks like NT doesnt want any part of it.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I dont want NT to be the school of the metroplex...I want it to be its own school competing on a state, national and global level. Thats what makes a powerful university.

---Why stop? -- include inter-galactic level.. Maybe we should get to the state level first with some national recognition..

---I think this is what TIgreen 01 was referring to about reality.

To me is #1 purpose of a new stadium to have one that will be large enough to attract name opponents... whatever size that is but I don't think 30K will do it.

[KingDL1]

Where do you think we should stack ourselves against?

I'm starting to get the impression you think we should be 50K expandable to 80K. You're nutty if you think that this metroplex is going to adopt us like Michigan or Ohio State if we start winning. I like what Dodge said when he wants us to be the team of the metro, but I think he was referring to the colleges.

Maybe I am disgusting you, but I just don't see us becoming SO powerful that we are pulling all the revenue spenders away from their Cowboys, Stars, Mavs, baseball, high school, Desperados expenditures. That does not make us a pitiful D-1 program. I'm of the opinion that if we start at 30K and expand to accomodate a future average of 45 - 50, we are a healthy, legit program. Where does this stand in the metroplex on a historic level? When SMU and TCU were dominating college football, were they getting everyone in the metro involved?

The UTs and OUs of the world (and some of Flyer's listed above) are in markets where they don't have to compete with top pro-clubs, and the programs have been winning - dominating - for decades.

SMU in their hay-day played at the Cotton bowl and Texas Stadium and had some great turnouts if I remember correctly. TCU has a current enrollment of around 8,000 and yet their stadium holds 44,000.

There has always been a correlation with enrollment and stadium size.

I do think 50,000 expandable to 80,000 is a great plan, 45,000 enrolled is a lot of people. On top of that Denton county is growing at an exponential rate, with DFW being the fastest growing of any large market. I think they said 162,000 people moved to this area last year.

Dallas-Fort Worth added more than 162,000 residents between July 2006 and July 2007, more than any other metro area. Three other Texas areas - Houston, Austin and San Antonio - also cracked the top 10.

I am not sure why so many are out to say what we can't do, I know we can do and should do. Meeting total enrollment should be a bare minimum.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

If 10% is the norm, we should be there.

Well something is wrong then - if we are there, and have been there for a few months, then why are we not getting this project rolling? What better way to create more interest and donations in a project than to get the thing off the ground? The only two things I have heard, have been from here and one who has been to a meeting in the AD. That person saw a 3D design of the new stadium and others on here have said that "big" donors have recieved brochures or packages about the thing.

We for sure have the money though to get a stadium that seats 20k going, so we ought to just get it built. At 20k, once we got "standing room only" then we could upgrade to 30k, and then on up.

[UNTflyer]

All references in the media have said the stadium would initially be 30-35,000. I guess that will all depend on the final footprint and how many seats they can squeeze into it. But basically it looks like a single tier horseshoe design with the athletics center closing the open end.

Being "expandable to 50,000" probably means a 2nd tier on both sideline stands. Certainly in the future the stadium could also be expanded with a 2nd tier on the northern end zone as well. Building a 2nd tier for a 30-35,000 seat stadium all the way around probably comes to something like 60-65k.

Building a 30k stadium is the beginning, and I kinda get your facetious call for a 20k stadium, but the numbers aren't the point. Rather than focusing on the numbers, why don't you focus on the fact that we will have a nice, single-tier stadium.

[Green to the Bone]

Democracy sure is a grand thing. By my count, 48 people have posted on this thread.

That said, I'd be pleased to invoke cloture.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Building a 30k stadium is the beginning, and I kinda get your facetious call for a 20k stadium, but the numbers aren't the point. Rather than focusing on the numbers, why don't you focus on the fact that we will have a nice, single-tier stadium.

Well if numbers are not the point, then build it for 20k so we can get it done. We have more than enough money to get it built for 20k. If we need extra seats before the second phase is done, we can wheel enough metal bleachers in for another 5,000 in bigger games.

[UNTflyer]

Well if numbers are not the point, then build it for 20k so we can get it done. We have more than enough money to get it built for 20k. If we need extra seats before the second phase is done, we can wheel enough metal bleachers in for another 5,000 in bigger games.

[gangrene]

Maybe you all are misunderstanding the 30K seats is ok camp. Hell, I'd love to have a 45K seat stadium as much as anyone else.

Bring it on man!!!

But seriously though, back to reality. We have raised 6 million dollars towards a stadium in the... what? - 6 years RV has been here? I want to see a stadium in the next 5 years. If you push a 45K seat stadium then forget it. It won't happen for 15 years.

So I think I'm hearing some people say they won't support NT athletics if we don't build a 45K seat stadium. Unbelievable. At this point I'm glad RV is pushing the 30K seat option because that is our best chance for a new stadium period.

Couldn't agree with you more. Those are my thoughts exactly. Beggars can't be greedy and, at this point, it looks like we'll be lucky to raise enough money to start that 30K stadium. Would I love to have a 45K stadium? Of course! Is it thinking "small time" to be happy with a new, state-of-the-art facility that will makes things more than comfortable for our 20K average attendance (I'm being generous)? Well, obviously, we each have our own opinion on that. I can dream about a UNT drive to the national championship, selling out an 80K stadium, just as easily as the rest of you but, at the end of the day, I have to turn off my PS3 and get back to reality. We don't have the luxury of a Boone Pickens or a Gerald J. Ford donor. In all honestly, we don't even have the need for a 45K stadium yet. Yet is the big key word for most of us. I still don't buy the argument that we need to have a stadium large enough to accommodate our student enrollment. Or that we'll sell it out for big schools to play in Denton. Did we ever have more than 30K for our games in Texas Stadium?? No - Texas Tech 42, North Texas 14, 9/22/01 Att.20,852 or Texas Tech 30, North Texas 0 9/13/98 Att.21,496

Wait...hold everything....I just found one!!! Texas A & M 36, North Texas 10 09/27/97 Att. 42,224

Other games we played at Texas Stadium include Army in 1996, Kansas in 1995, Oklahoma State and UTA in 1981. I can't find attendance records for those but I'm pretty sure we didn't sell out for any of those games.

So, in conclusion, if one "home" game attendance of 42K+ in the past 30 years justifies building a stadium of 45K then let's do it. Maybe we can get A & M or UT to come to Denton once every 10 to 15 years? Never mind the fact that they both already play one game in the DFW area. I'm sure they'd enjoy Denton more than Dallas and Arlington anyway.

So let's do it!!! 45K or Fouts!!!

[TIgreen01]

Greatness!...but let's not limit this to just one poster. Everyone gets a share!

Seriously, though...EVERYONE here wants to see bonafide proof that the administration is 150% behind the program and ready to do the things that are necessary to move us out of the perpetual bottom 10. That said, the kinds of actions that are going to get us there aren't going to be broadcast on some sort of 24x7x365 UNT admin news station....it's going to happen behind closed doors and then boom....we'll know.

All we've really heard out of the admin (both university and athletic) is that we "really want a stadium", that we've hired architects to design it (FACT) and that it's obvious that our new AC is built with a stadium in mind (hence the damn locker rooms that open to a currently EMPTY FIELD!). That's a lot of smoke that would indicate that something is happening.

What we have right now in Fouts is one of the 3-5 worst football stadiums in all of FBS. It is by all intents and purposes a 20k seat stadium (anyone who has ever sat out on the aluminum bleachers knows that those seats SUCK and that nobody should have to pay to sit there). At this point, a 30k horseshoe (saying that b/c the AC construction makes it pretty clear that's what the designers have in mind) with great sight-lines makes sense and is a 10k seat improvement over our current stadium.

If you think that a 40k+ seat stadium is the only way to go, you either know a way to build it for the same cost as a 30k (without making it out of erector set parts) stadium.....or you're out of touch with reality. If you think that we're going to start drawing 40k for Thanksgiving weekend games against Arkansas State....you're out of touch with reality. If you've EVER attended a UNT home football game and think a 40k stadium is MANDATORY.....you're out of touch with reality.

Clear enough?

Edited June 6, 2008 by TIgreen01

[UNTflyer]

What we have right now in Fouts is one of the 3-5 worst football stadiums in all of FBS.

Oh, I don't know about that, but I would agree we are definitely in the bottom 20.

Stadiums worse than Fouts:

1. Kibbie Dome.

With a capacity of 16,000, it is the smallest "stadium" in Div-IA. It's appropriate that it is located in Moscow, ID, because it looks like an old Russian nuclear storage facility.

Indoors, it doesn't get much better. It looks like a cross between an ambitious high school gym and an indoor soccer field.

The rest of my Bottom 5:

2. Lockhart Stadium (FAU)

3. Peden Stadium (Ohio)

4. Scheumann Stadium (Ball State)

5. University at Buffalo Stadium (Buffalo)

[KingDL1]

Greatness!...but let's not limit this to just one poster. Everyone gets a share!

Seriously, though...EVERYONE here wants to see bonafide proof that the administration is 150% behind the program and ready to do the things that are necessary to move us out of the perpetual bottom 10. That said, the kinds of actions that are going to get us there aren't going to be broadcast on some sort of 24x7x365 UNT admin news station....it's going to happen behind closed doors and then boom....we'll know.

All we've really heard out of the admin (both university and athletic) is that we "really want a stadium", that we've hired architects to design it (FACT) and that it's obvious that our new AC is built with a stadium in mind (hence the damn locker rooms that open to a currently EMPTY FIELD!). That's a lot of smoke that would indicate that something is happening.

What we have right now in Fouts is one of the 3-5 worst football stadiums in all of FBS. It is by all intents and purposes a 20k seat stadium (anyone who has ever sat out on the aluminum bleachers knows that those seats SUCK and that nobody should have to pay to sit there). At this point, a 30k horseshoe (saying that b/c the AC construction makes it pretty clear that's what the designers have in mind) with great sight-lines makes sense and is a 10k seat improvement over our current stadium.

If you think that a 40k+ seat stadium is the only way to go, you either know a way to build it for the same cost as a 30k (without making it out of erector set parts) stadium.....or you're out of touch with reality. If you think that we're going to start drawing 40k for Thanksgiving weekend games against Arkansas State....you're out of touch with reality. If you've EVER attended a UNT home football game and think a 40k stadium is MANDATORY.....you're out of touch with reality.

Clear enough?

No, it is not clear. And maybe you need to see if you might bring your expectations off the floor. Yes the Seats in the end zones suck, and as far as financing there is only a couple million dollars more to start a 10,000 - 15,000 seat more stadium. An addition which later, say ten years from now, may cost more then the stadium to add on There are real reasons to do it right now, and why anyone thinks it is 30,000 or we can't afford it blows my mind. A larger stadium draws bigger concerts, high school playoffs, big football programs, etc. Not to mention total enrollment.

But wait lets base the new stadium on the past and a school that has just recently started to commit to a D1A football program. Such a lack of vision.

[FirefightnRick]

So again, how much will it take for us to start the project for the 30k stadium? We have 6 million now, how much more do we need to get the ground turning?

Correction. Back at the start of December of '07 we had $6 Million pledged.

Where it is now who knows?

Rick

[NT91]

35K is a good solid number!

[UNTflyer]

A 45,000 seat stadium that looks like an erector set cost UCF $55 million. It's expandable to 60,000 but the damn thing is brand new and it sways and bounces. I don't want a stadium like that.

SMU's 32,000 seat stadium is expandable to 45,000. It looks nice, solid brick facade, and cost $42 million in 2000, so figure conservatively that it would cost $55 million today. That's what we should be shooting for.