New Proposed Unt Football Stadium

SouthernMustang · June 4, 2008

It had nothing to do with it, lack of Baseball, and SMU had more money. The numbers are the numbers to them, at the end of the day Fouts is not that bad, just old, and it helps if you have good eyesight. I would love a new stadium but it seems OK with some of you if we shoot ourselves in the foot to get it. Screw that. Expandable to a total of 50,000 lacks any vision at all for a University that is going to an enrollment of 45,000. If we are not going to shoot for better we might as well not play.
And as for SMU, Gerald Ford Stadium has a capacity not counting the hill on the south end of 32,000 nearly three times their total enrollment.

Question, in y'alls figure for 45,000 students at UNT. Are you counting graduate students? SMU only has 6,000 undergrads. 4,000 are grad students at MBA, law school, theology school, etc. I would never build a stadium to include capacity for grad students as most have likely established connections with a previous undergrad. Yeah it suck, but would you want someone from UNT who went to law school or business school to ditch UNT and not travel back to Denton for games?

Isn't Southern Miss' stadium around 30,000? Pretty sure it's a large school, and they've had some great opponents show up. SMU has 32,000 and we've gotten Tech, Baylor, OK State, and A&M (coming in the future). Seems like Troy State has gotten some big name opponents, theyre a state school, and it seat around 30,000. I think Marshall has a similiar sized stadium as well. Not saying that you shouldn't want a bigger stadium, but it's not as doom and gloom as some make it out to be.

NT80 · June 4, 2008

If you are going down this road, I think we should be talking about a stadium built for three to four phases, but the cap needs to be more on lines of 65-70K or more. If UNT is committed to get the football program moving forward and starts scheduling teams like Oky State, Tech, Baylor, A&M, and others attendance won't be a problem. You guys need to start thinking big school because we are there. I still think it is very small time, and a metroplex joke if we do 30,000 seat studium. Smu at 32,000 (SMU total enrollment 11,000) and TCU at 44,008 (TCU total enrollment just under 9,000) and we are building the smallest with an enrollment that will more then double the combination of TCU & SMU. Just sad.

I too am concerned with capacity being only 50K. It can't be that hard to bump a design up to 70K with additional decks if ever needed, but why say 50K is the limit? That's like saying Baylor is stuck with a 50K stadium and can never expand it, not that they will ever need it, but......

UNTflyer · June 4, 2008

Hell, why stop there? Let's just build a 100,000 seat stadium since we will soon have a student body size in the same ballpark as Penn St and Michigan?

Think big!

Green Mean · June 4, 2008

Hell, why stop there? Let's just build a 100,000 seat stadium since we will soon have a student body size in the same ballpark as Penn St and Michigan?
Think big!

I am not sure if people are thinking that high. Its quite simple...if you want to compete with the big boys then you need to start acting like one. NT has always thought small or not at all to where how can anybody take us seriously. I just think you are shooting yourself in the foot if you settle for the bare minimum.

Greendylan · June 4, 2008

Hell, why stop there? Let's just build a 100,000 seat stadium since we will soon have a student body size in the same ballpark as Penn St and Michigan?
Think big!

Hell, the Texas Motor Speedway holds over 200,000, and they have an enrollment of 0! We'll be the metroplex joke if we don't top them...I say 1,000,000 seat stadium. If we can't manage that then we might as well become NAIA.

UNTLifer · June 4, 2008

High school teams even complain when they play there for playoff games.

High school teams no longer play there, ever, even for playoff games.

KingDL1 · June 4, 2008

Question, in y'alls figure for 45,000 students at UNT. Are you counting graduate students? SMU only has 6,000 undergrads. 4,000 are grad students at MBA, law school, theology school, etc. I would never build a stadium to include capacity for grad students as most have likely established connections with a previous undergrad. Yeah it suck, but would you want someone from UNT who went to law school or business school to ditch UNT and not travel back to Denton for games?
Isn't Southern Miss' stadium around 30,000? Pretty sure it's a large school, and they've had some great opponents show up. SMU has 32,000 and we've gotten Tech, Baylor, OK State, and A&M (coming in the future). Seems like Troy State has gotten some big name opponents, theyre a state school, and it seat around 30,000. I think Marshall has a similiar sized stadium as well. Not saying that you shouldn't want a bigger stadium, but it's not as doom and gloom as some make it out to be.

Southern Miss has a total enrollment of around 13,000 at the main campus, 15,000 if you count their satellite campuses. Southern Miss's current stadium size is 33,000.

My concern is the future and planning, it is much easier to plan big for the future then to reverse engineer a stadium designed for a max of 50,000 later. I was told long ago that the magic formula to any football stadium is to be just larger then the student body with room to expand. Our plan seems ass-back-wards.

As far as our graduate students, when I was in school the vast majority of them were UNT undergrads. That may have changed also it would not be completely unheard of for grad students to attend their current school's home football games, and if they came from a non D1A school we may even turn them in to life long fans.

UNT_playmaker · June 4, 2008

UCF started its football program in 1979 in Division III. They just built a stadium with a seating capacity of 45,301 and hosted the University of Texas to break it in.
UCF has vision.
Keith

I think we have a better future than UCF.... UCF built there stadium that big to host opponents that can bring crowds.

IT IS PROVEN THAT NT CAN BRING CROWDS:

TULSA, SMU, TCU, TEXAS TECH, NAVY, BAYLOR.....

Now dont tell me we can't BRING THE NOISE for realistic opponents we could host like K-state, O-state, a&m, or Colorado.

We need at a stadium with at least 40,000 for anyone to look at us seriously to allow us to host them.

I am sick and tired of playing these damn money games at their house and under there rules. Screw it... Let's turn the tables, this is our chance.

We can eliminate these embarassing opening losses that affect our entire season year in and year out, ENOUGH.....Let's play against Mid-Majors, and the mid level Big 12 teams home or away, not #1 team or defending champion in the nation every year.

Our new stadium (if we are getting one) will determine where this program goes, we need to do it right, to ensure immediate success......

SouthernMustang · June 5, 2008

Southern Miss has a total enrollment of around 13,000 at the main campus, 15,000 if you count their satellite campuses. Southern Miss's current stadium size is 33,000.
My concern is the future and planning, it is much easier to plan big for the future then to reverse engineer a stadium designed for a max of 50,000 later. I was told long ago that the magic formula to any football stadium is to be just larger then the student body with room to expand. Our plan seems ass-back-wards.
As far as our graduate students, when I was in school the vast majority of them were UNT undergrads. That may have changed also it would not be completely unheard of for grad students to attend their current school's home football games, and if they came from a non D1A school we may even turn them in to life long fans.

True.. but if they're looking at your undergrad #'s now - they might be following that magic formula to get to 30,000. I understand being frustrated with the reverse engineering, I just wouldn't overreact to the point of not wanting a brand new stadium merely b/c it will only seat 30,000. With a stadium that seats an additional 15-20k people, thats more restrooms, more lights, more concessions to operate. If you can't fill it up, that's more cost to your school. What if your school can't afford, at this point, to take on that extra cost? If there is no new stadium, I find it hard to believe that, as long many on this board have stated it's taken to get this far in your building process, more alums are going to start giving due to the size of the stadium. However, a new stadium that is nice might cause people to finally see that your school is serious about athletics and start giving. Look what happened when SMU hired Orsini and proved to the alumni base they were serious, we got Matt Doherty, a basketball practice facility, and boosters completely funded a new coach's salary. Giving is way up for athletics, as well as season tickets. Building a new stadium, in my opinion, would be a launch pad for your school.

In this day and age, it has gotten harder and harder to attract fans to college games -- esp those outside the BCS. Schools like UNT, MTSU, SMU, TCU, etc are always going to have students that would rather support Texas, A&M, Tennessee, etc. It's not right, but it's very very hard to change that. Even if SMU, UNT, TCU were to win 10+ games every year... I don't see them drawing consistently more than 30-35k fans simply b/c of their conference affiliations. You'd be very hard pressed to find many non-BCS schools that draw 40k fan consistently (yes I realize there are some, but that is not the norm, and even more difficult in a pro-sports town). Even Boise State has a 30k stadium and draws right around 30k. And they've won a BCS bowl and win what seems like 10-11 games every year.

KingDL1 · June 5, 2008

True.. but if they're looking at your undergrad #'s now - they might be following that magic formula to get to 30,000. I understand being frustrated with the reverse engineering, I just wouldn't overreact to the point of not wanting a brand new stadium merely b/c it will only seat 30,000. With a stadium that seats an additional 15-20k people, thats more restrooms, more lights, more concessions to operate. If you can't fill it up, that's more cost to your school. What if your school can't afford, at this point, to take on that extra cost? If there is no new stadium, I find it hard to believe that, as long many on this board have stated it's taken to get this far in your building process, more alums are going to start giving due to the size of the stadium. However, a new stadium that is nice might cause people to finally see that your school is serious about athletics and start giving. Look what happened when SMU hired Orsini and proved to the alumni base they were serious, we got Matt Doherty, a basketball practice facility, and boosters completely funded a new coach's salary. Giving is way up for athletics, as well as season tickets. Building a new stadium, in my opinion, would be a launch pad for your school.
In this day and age, it has gotten harder and harder to attract fans to college games -- esp those outside the BCS. Schools like UNT, MTSU, SMU, TCU, etc are always going to have students that would rather support Texas, A&M, Tennessee, etc. It's not right, but it's very very hard to change that. Even if SMU, UNT, TCU were to win 10+ games every year... I don't see them drawing consistently more than 30-35k fans simply b/c of their conference affiliations. You'd be very hard pressed to find many non-BCS schools that draw 40k fan consistently (yes I realize there are some, but that is not the norm, and even more difficult in a pro-sports town). Even Boise State has a 30k stadium and draws right around 30k. And they've won a BCS bowl and win what seems like 10-11 games every year.

We don't have sell out every game, as for the extras like lights, bathrooms, concessions, etc. they don't have to have them all open. In a horse shoe configuration just cover the seats in the end-zone with a huge Mean Green Banner, and shut down the service behind it. I doubt of the 45,000 total enrollment that 15,000 of our main campus would be grad students, but I would still expect a good percentage of the grad students to be in the mix. If we won 10+ games a year consistently and were able to knock off a BCS team here and there you would see a packed house in Denton. I think the fan base will show up in Denton if we started really winning, Under DD we really didn't have what the casual fan would see as any big wins/upsets, and saw us in a crappy conference. The Sunbelt is getting a better rep these days, but we need to play at home the likes of Rice, Baylor, Tech, Oky state, TCU, A&M, etc. to really get people on board. I think it is easier to attract those teams with a bigger stadium and at first it would be games like these where we open up the end-zone.

Boise State has a total enrollment of around 18,000, plus they don't have a huge metro area to pull alumni from. I don't agree that a pro sports town makes it that much harder. A winning tradition combined with recognizable opponents would keep the attendance at games high. Plus I am sure we will use any new stadium for several other events that were more worried about the condition and layout of Fouts.

Edited June 5, 2008 by KingDL1

Green P1 · June 5, 2008

I like stadiums.

SAGreenFan · June 5, 2008

I like stadiums.

Ooh me too! UNT Should build one that has a capacity of 30,000 and could be expandable. That would be sweet. Gee I wonder how the masses will take it. Fouts at 30,000, or a new expandable, state of the art that seats 30,000. I understand the resentment at the thinking of this plan, we DESPERATELY need a new stadium now. Is it a carrot being dangled in front of us? Maybe yes, but at least its not rotting carrot on the ground.

NTPhiKap99 · June 5, 2008

Do we need a new stadium? Yes

Should we build big for the future? Yes

Do we have the money currently for a new stadium? No

Will we soon have the funding available for a new stadium in the 30-35k range? I think so.

Will it take several years longer to raise the money for a 40-45k stadium? Yes

Can we build a smaller stadium in the next couple years and then use the extra revenue to expand the stadium? Yes

Do I like the idea of building a stadium smaller than our current student body no. But we don't have the support to demand a bigger stadium yet and if we build what we can afford now and then establish the student and alumni support we think we deserve than the school wold be stupid not to start planning the expansion immediately. They say if you build it they will come and if that the case we build it than the money needed for the next phase will be a given. Once we fill a 30-35k stadium with our size and expected growth the next phase will happen withing 5 years not making the expansion would be financial suicide. Again do I want a bigger stadium yes but can we afford it or deserve it currently no so let please take what we can get and move the hell out of Fouts.

NTPhiKap99 · June 5, 2008

Do I like the idea of building a stadium smaller than our current student body no. But we don't have the support to demand a bigger stadium yet and if we build what we can afford now and then establish the student and alumni support we think we deserve than the school wold be stupid not to start planning the expansion immediately. They say if you build it they will come and if that the case we build it than the money needed for the next phase will be a given. Once we fill a 30-35k stadium with our size and expected growth the next phase will happen withing 5 years not making the expansion would be financial suicide. Again do I want a bigger stadium yes but can we afford it or deserve it currently no so let please take what we can get and move the hell out of Fouts.

Long story short

Program makes money = Big Stadium

Program loses moeny = No Stadium

Fill Fouts and I'll hold out for a 45k stadium otherwise we're luck to have what we've got.

Stan R · June 5, 2008

So are you saying that people don't like fouts fields and they want a new, expandable 30,000 seat stadium??? Somebody should get on the horn and tell our athletic director immediately!

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 5, 2008

I agree with the folks who say we should prove we can fill 30k regularly before we take the leap over 40k. I mean, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's folly to think that a school that has averaged less than 20k for years is going to all of the sudden get more than 40k because of a new stadium. Or, maybe we should ask SMU about their experience - and, they're in the heart of Dallas, just a few seconds off a major freeway that cuts through the middle of it!

I'm just sayin'....

KingDL1 · June 5, 2008

I agree with the folks who say we should prove we can fill 30k regularly before we take the leap over 40k. I mean, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's folly to think that a school that has averaged less than 20k for years is going to all of the sudden get more than 40k because of a new stadium. Or, maybe we should ask SMU about their experience - and, they're in the heart of Dallas, just a few seconds off a major freeway that cuts through the middle of it!
I'm just sayin'....

There is no folly it is simply a commitment, why should we ever improve. The enrollment growth alone should be reason enough, and for funding, I have been told that it is not much different between 50 million and 70 million (just a guess) as far as the difference between what the two sizes may cost. I was told that 10% gets you rolling, not sure just told that. That means 5 million vs 7 million to get the project off the ground. Now cost of construction goes up all the time and "to add on latter" means you have to get all the equipment and support back in place again which tacks on more money. So what may have cost 20 million today in three years may cost you 30 million to add on.

greenminer · June 5, 2008

Tying enrollment growth into this debate seems weak.

We're already 35K, yet have proven for decades we hover around 15K (at best?). With an occasional spurt of 20K+

Yet some of you are arguing that because we'll have 45K (not even twice the current) students, that we are going to suddenly need 45K+ (3 times our current attendance) seats.

I'm on your side: I think a D-1 stadium should be more than 30K. If it is 30K and expandable, fine. If it is frozen at 30K with no other future options, we're in trouble.

We have 100K+ alumn in the area and hovered at 35K active students during 4 YEARS of conference titles. Good thing those 30K crowds showed up then, other wise you'd have nothing to argue for!

wait...

gangrene · June 5, 2008

There is no folly it is simply a commitment, why should we ever improve. The enrollment growth alone should be reason enough, and for funding, I have been told that it is not much different between 50 million and 70 million (just a guess) as far as the difference between what the two sizes may cost. I was told that 10% gets you rolling, not sure just told that. That means 5 million vs 7 million to get the project off the ground. Now cost of construction goes up all the time and "to add on latter" means you have to get all the equipment and support back in place again which tacks on more money. So what may have cost 20 million today in three years may cost you 30 million to add on.

Maybe I should go ahead and build those additional 6 bedrooms onto my house now....just in case my wife has sextuplets in the future? I don't really have the money for the renovation, but I'm sure it would be cheaper to build it now than it would be in the future.

Quoner · June 5, 2008

Maybe I should go ahead and build those additional 6 bedrooms onto my house now....just in case my wife has sextuplets in the future? I don't really have the money for the renovation, but I'm sure it would be cheaper to build it now than it would be in the future.

You have no faith in your man-parts and this makes me question your leadership and commitment. Start acting like you have the biggest package in the metroplex and you'll see results - including the sextuplets!

Green P1 · June 5, 2008

Is it a carrot being dangled in front of us? Maybe yes, but at least its not rotting carrot on the ground.

Beats a kick in the rear.

KingDL1 · June 5, 2008

Tying enrollment growth into this debate seems weak.
We're already 35K, yet have proven for decades we hover around 15K (at best?). With an occasional spurt of 20K+
Yet some of you are arguing that because we'll have 45K (not even twice the current) students, that we are going to suddenly need 45K+ (3 times our current attendance) seats.
I'm on your side: I think a D-1 stadium should be more than 30K. If it is 30K and expandable, fine. If it is frozen at 30K with no other future options, we're in trouble.
We have 100K+ alumn in the area and hovered at 35K active students during 4 YEARS of conference titles. Good thing those 30K crowds showed up then, other wise you'd have nothing to argue for!
wait...

It is not about the past, too many of you are stuck in past small school thought. It is the enrollment plus a commitment to a football program. If the football program gets off the ground the attendance will be there. Plus UNT plans on using this (Stadium on the Greens) for many other events where more seats means more money. Fouts is sold out a 20,000 as far as I am concerned. And once again you do not have to sell it out if you can get at first 28,000 in it for a football game you are fine, the attendance will grow.

UNTflyer · June 5, 2008

It's a pointless argument. The AD has already asked for a 30,000 (roughly) seat stadium expandable to 45k. We spent a couple hundred grand to get the engineer to draw the plans, which as I understand it are already done.

GoMeanGreen1999 · June 5, 2008

It is not about the past, too many of you are stuck in past small school thought. It is the enrollment plus a commitment to a football program. If the football program gets off the ground the attendance will be there. Plus UNT plans on using this (Stadium on the Greens) for many other events where more seats means more money. Fouts is sold out a 20,000 as far as I am concerned. And once again you do not have to sell it out if you can get at first 28,000 in it for a football game you are fine, the attendance will grow.

Ever get the feeling you are going uphill?

What surprises me so much about so many is that we all want the respect of the big boys, want to get into the bigger and better conferences, yet we still think in small terms. 30k says "small time" all day long.

GoMeanGreen1999 · June 5, 2008

It's a pointless argument. The AD has already asked for a 30,000 (roughly) seat stadium expandable to 45k. We spent a couple hundred grand to get the engineer to draw the plans, which as I understand it are already done.

It's done - you can walk over to the AD complex and see it if you want. Our AD asking for 30k seat stadium is more evidence he is not going to ND.