Just A Question

[emmitt01]

I know I've seen several on this board who say the "body bag" games are good for us because it gives us a chance to measure ourselves against the big boys, gets local/state media, and a couple other reasons. I happen to disagree with these games period...but I wonder if others feel the same.

So my question is this...If we could replace K-State and LSU with home/away games against 1A teams that are beatable and that are NOT local would you favor that? If for instance the beginning of the season looked like this would you prefer it?

Buffalo

Tulsa

At Ohio

At Rice

Then the conference schedule

[greenminer]

nah

[Ibleedgreen]

No.

[BIG DAWG]

I wouldn't mind trading one of our "body bag" games in for one of the opponents you mentioned, but I think it is always good to play at least one with the big boys to know you're alive

[Green P1]

I like having the chance to dream about an upset. It's nice to be able to trash talk whoever you know that roots for OU/UT/LSU/ect... for weeks up to the game.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Green P1

[KingDL1]

I wouldn't mind dropping LSU, but I like KState on the schedule.

[eulessismore]

I know I've seen several on this board who say the "body bag" games are good for us because it gives us a chance to measure ourselves against the big boys, gets local/state media, and a couple other reasons. I happen to disagree with these games period...but I wonder if others feel the same.

So my question is this...If we could replace K-State and LSU with home/away games against 1A teams that are beatable and that are NOT local would you favor that? If for instance the beginning of the season looked like this would you prefer it?

Buffalo

Tulsa

At Ohio

At Rice

Then the conference schedule

I think that you've pointed out the difficulties in finding better opponents than we already have by including Buffalo and Ohio. I'm sure some here would be excited about those two, but that more (like me) don't even know much about them. I think we could find better than those among FCS teams, such as Northern Iowa, McNeese, or Southern Illinois.

[MeanMag]

I wonder if La. Monroe wanted to replace Alabama with one of those teams prior to their game last season. Or if Troy would like to schedule those guys instead.

Emmitt, I know what you are getting at, but you are asking the wrong people.

Ask the team.

I guarandamntee you - they want to play against the Big XII and any other school they have a chance at knocking heads with that have former teammates on. I doubt anyone on the team now knows a guy that plays for Buffalo or Ohio. They want to play against those guys that they heard were good in High School that they never got a chance to bump heads with because of school classification, playoff division or district etc. The commraderie and competitiveness of Texas High School Football and proving/testing themselves to/against the friends, acquaintances, and classmates they made or did not make at football camps / clinics / and playoffs would probably be a bigger factor to them than any "sure" win or loss, if there was ever such a thing...

This is why every effort should be made to play other teams from our region. I will take a regional matchup regardless of conference affiliation/ "bodybag" potential.

Also makes for better gentlemanly discussion around the water cooler for the fans. Our SunBelt schedule takes enough scrutiny from the national perception, warranted or unwarranted.

[FirefightnRick]

Yes, but you wouldn't have to go with Buffalo or Ohio. Anyone other than last years top ten, especially the national champions, would do.

Rick

Edited May 29, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[emmitt01]

Ok, it seems that the prevailing answer is "no." Now, for my follow up question...if you said "no" does the prospect of going into conference 4-0, 3-1 or at worst 2-2 not do anything for you? K-State, the team some of us are all giddy about playing, got where they are today by keeping it creampuff in their OOC and climbing the polls. Or ask Hawaii just how tough your OOC has to be to get somewhere. Or maybe take a look at Texas Tech.

[untphd]

I know I've seen several on this board who say the "body bag" games are good for us because it gives us a chance to measure ourselves against the big boys, gets local/state media, and a couple other reasons. I happen to disagree with these games period...but I wonder if others feel the same.

So my question is this...If we could replace K-State and LSU with home/away games against 1A teams that are beatable and that are NOT local would you favor that? If for instance the beginning of the season looked like this would you prefer it?

Buffalo

Tulsa

At Ohio

At Rice

Then the conference schedule

yes.

[untphd]

Ok, it seems that the prevailing answer is "no." Now, for my follow up question...if you said "no" does the prospect of going into conference 4-0, 3-1 or at worst 2-2 not do anything for you? K-State, the team some of us are all giddy about playing, got where they are today by keeping it creampuff in their OOC and climbing the polls. Or ask Hawaii just how tough your OOC has to be to get somewhere. Or maybe take a look at Texas Tech.

We need to go into conference with a record that says we can win. The so called money games aren't building confidence in the offense or defense, and they aren't big traveling games. When the offense goes 3 and out and the defense is on the field forever, is that fun football to watch? It is when it is the other team going 3 and out.

[KRAM1]

Interesting idea...worth consideration. I, too, very much dislike playing the likes of OU and LSU to start a season. Not sure UNT needs to go the 1A route, but there are D1 schools that would make much better opening opponets such as NAVY, ARMY (on the schedule), Air Force, Rice, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Tulsa, New Mexico, etc., etc. that UNT might could schedule. But, of course, there is the $$$ question. It is a tough call for the folks in the athletic deopt. The money is co very critical, but these games have a way of "deflating" the early season, and I think reduce attendance at home games and overall support of the program. Folks "see" the record at 1-3, etc. and don't think about "who" UNT played...they just see a "losing record". Look, for our "real" fans, they get it...but, how many of those are really out there when it comes to donations, season tickets, etc., etc. Tough, tough call on the part of the athletic dept. A really good point to ponder.

[UNTflyer]

Emmitt,

the 2009 season is already starting to look like that... with home games against Army, Rice, and then on the road at Ball State. I personally like it. Boise St. didn't get to a BCS game by playing body bag games. In fact, they went undefeated with the WAC games and a weak-ass OOC schedule.

[untphd]

Interesting idea...worth consideration. I, too, very much dislike playing the likes of OU and LSU to start a season. Not sure UNT needs to go the 1A route, but there are D1 schools that would make much better opening opponets such as NAVY, ARMY (on the schedule), Air Force, Rice, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Tulsa, New Mexico, etc., etc. that UNT might could schedule. But, of course, there is the $$$ question. It is a tough call for the folks in the athletic deopt. The money is co very critical, but these games have a way of "deflating" the early season, and I think reduce attendance at home games and overall support of the program. Folks "see" the record at 1-3, etc. and don't think about "who" UNT played...they just see a "losing record". Look, for our "real" fans, they get it...but, how many of those are really out there when it comes to donations, season tickets, etc., etc. Tough, tough call on the part of the athletic dept. A really good point to ponder.

If not the 1a, how about Indiana, Minnesota, Vanderbilt and so on... this would get good exposure and a win.

[LongJim]

Yes.

One of these teams needs to be on the schedule every year home/away--SMU, Tulsa, Baylor, Rice, Houston, TCU, and possibly Tceh. Rotate them also with the service academies, another CUSA team, and possibly a MWC member. Throw in a top-tier B12 or SEC team every 2 years.

For grins:

201X

Houston

at Tulsa

at Navy

SMU

201X

at Rice

Southern Miss

at Tech

Air Force

201X

Marshall

at SMU

at Houston

Tulane

[Guest 97and03]

I guess it depends of what we want. I think that a 12-0 or 11-1 Sun Belt team still has a VERY difficult time getting into the BCS. But I think that same team would get great national exposure though being in the Top 25. We might not increase make a BCS bowl, but would stimulate interest in the team and increase attendance at our games during the usual doldrums of the SBC games in Nov. I would love to see 25K come out to see a 10-1 UNT team play their last home game of the season.

So yes Emmitt, I would gladly see us play Buffalo or Ohio or Ball St or Miss St if it meant national exposure and increased attendance.

[Charlie NT 73]

Boby bag games? Well, in the past few seasons, I would just think these games were another

blow out loss, yet, I would tolerate the game because the North Texas needed the money.

I remember something to the effect of "try not to get anyone hurt, try not to get blown out,

and take home the check". These days are over.

Now, with Coach Dodge running the show, I do want to play the body bag games. I think

the chances for a big win are better than ever. For the football players, I know they want

to play the big boys. What I would want, is a RETURN GAME back to North Texas instead of

a one way ticket.

Troy will play Ohio State in their house this year. Do you think the Troy football team

will consider the Ohio State game a body bag game? Troy believes they can beat the

Buckeyes, and the team will lay it out on the field.

La Monroe, went to Bama, at their house, and beat the Tide. Wow!

No, I do not want to replace the body bag games. A win over LSU would certainly

be better than a win over middle of the road mid major school. What would happen

if the middle of the road mid major school beat North Texas? (remember Akron?)

I would prefer to play a game with LSU, Clemson, or Miami, and have the chance

for a big win, than lose to a mid major school.

[Green Mean]

I know I've seen several on this board who say the "body bag" games are good for us because it gives us a chance to measure ourselves against the big boys, gets local/state media, and a couple other reasons. I happen to disagree with these games period...but I wonder if others feel the same.

So my question is this...If we could replace K-State and LSU with home/away games against 1A teams that are beatable and that are NOT local would you favor that? If for instance the beginning of the season looked like this would you prefer it?

Buffalo

Tulsa

At Ohio

At Rice

Then the conference schedule

Interesting post Emmitt,

I think you can have 1 body bag game for sure such as an LSU, OU, UT etc since we get some money out of it. I think the key to scheduling is balance. I think KSU is a good opponent and would be a good measuring stick for schools in UNT's position. Its just really really defeating when you enter conference play at 0-4 or 1-3 and all those games just total beatings. I certainly do not mind scheduling teams like Buffalo, Tulsa, Ohio, Wyoming etc because they are teams that are beatable and its something we need to create here...a winning vibe. If a schedule is balanced year in and year out then I dont think you will see many many ass whippings like 79-10 or 65-0....or if you do you will just see it once a year rather than 2 or 3 times a year.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Green Mean

[medpilot21]

Ok, it seems that the prevailing answer is "no." Now, for my follow up question...if you said "no" does the prospect of going into conference 4-0, 3-1 or at worst 2-2 not do anything for you? K-State, the team some of us are all giddy about playing, got where they are today by keeping it creampuff in their OOC and climbing the polls. Or ask Hawaii just how tough your OOC has to be to get somewhere. Or maybe take a look at Texas Tech.

Emmitt has the right idea here... and we have all said this since looking at Texas Tech's last few years schedule. The Red Raiders open with a fluff team or two, play a Big-XII schedule down the stretch, and still get nationally ranked. The plan is simple... Have your team lead the season off with a winable game and get your team some game-day confidence and the fans fired up. Sometimes that mentality backfires, (as in the Michigan-Appalachian State game last year) but the plan works 99% of the time. Now dont mis-understand the intent here? There is nothing wrong with playing the OU's and LSU's hoping for an upset? My question has been.. "What does it really benefit North Texas to play an un-winnable game to start the season?" The slight chance of an upset and a big paycheck?....okay, I'm in for that at game 3 or 4 on our schedule. I, like most on this board, believe we have just as much chance as Appalachian State in getting an upset over a powerhouse program. I think Emmitt's point seems to be to play the "money game" after our team has already played a winnable game. Team confidence can never be under-estimated, and a win is a win. Also think about the positive effect an opening-day victory at home would have on the fan base? I personally would rather be 1-0 or maybe even 2-0 going into LSU or K-State. Of course nothing is guaranteed, and we could be beat by a Samford or Nichols State. BUT, the odds are in our favor. If the big boys do it, and there is no back-lash from anyone for it, then why would there be any back-lash if we do it? Schedules dont lie, and looking at what the big boys are doing this year tells the story. Look at the ACC and Big-XII first game opponents as an example? By the way, here is the Helmet schedule from orangeandbluehue.com for those who do not have it yet.

http://www.orangeandbluehue.com/wp-content...FBSSchedule.xls

For the record, I'll take the Mean Green Schedule any way it comes out... as we on this board love NT Football that much. BUT, starting the season off 1-0 or 2-0 would sure be a nice change.

GMG!!!

[UNTLifer]

I would give up the "body bag games" against LSU, Arkansas, etc... but not for games against Ohio and Buffalo. LongJim's post is what I would look to do and throw in UT and A&M every so often.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I know I've seen several on this board who say the "body bag" games are good for us because it gives us a chance to measure ourselves against the big boys, gets local/state media, and a couple other reasons. I happen to disagree with these games period...but I wonder if others feel the same.

So my question is this...If we could replace K-State and LSU with home/away games against 1A teams that are beatable and that are NOT local would you favor that? If for instance the beginning of the season looked like this would you prefer it?

Buffalo

Tulsa

At Ohio

At Rice

Then the conference schedule

A good "Build The Program" schedule would look like this to me:

August 30 - HOME GAME: Texas State/San Houston/Stephen F. Austin

Why - Local interest, putting butts in the seat - many SWT, SHS, and SFA alumni in the DFW area)

September 6 - HOME GAME: Tulsa/New Mexico/New Mexico State/UTEP/Any of the Louisiana or Missouri I-AAs

Why - Building interest off a season opening win, opportunity to market win #1 to an audience and invite them to another winnable game. These are schools from states that border Texas and who may give us a home and home...and fans travelling to Denton. If no I-As are available, get another I-AA...why not? Kansas State and Kansas do it. And, they're winning and getting press and excellent recruits. The Jayhawks had a first round draft pick in the NFL this year.

September 13 - BYE or ROAD GAME: Memphis/Alabama-Birmingham/Southern Mississippi/Tulane/Louisiana Tech/SMU/TCU/Rice/Houston

Why - If a bye week, a chance for the players and coaches to see what is going right and what is going wrong so that corrections can be made for the meat of the season. If a road game, a winnable opponent at a locale where our fans could reasonably travel.

September 20 - Ditto September 13

September 27 - HOME GAME: Any WAC/MAC/CUSA/MWC/Army/Navy

Why - Again, it's likely we'd be at least 2-1, possibly 3-0, and certainly no worse than 1-2. We'd still be fresh enough in people's minds that they would come see another good, winnable game.

The bottom line is this - college football is now, more than ever, a business. And, the trend doesn't look to be changing, but instead speeding headlong further in that direction. Our athletic department has got to view the football operations as it's main product to sell to the public since football gets more TV money and play than any other sport.

Once they have that veiwpoint, they need a viable, successful product to sell. In college football, that's a winning program. It's not gimmicky offenses and other tricked up nonsense. Win and give people nearby several chances to see you win early and often.

In marketing, you often have to give something away up front to get customers in. For our athletic department, it would be giving up the "pound us for cash" money and trading it for sure wins in week one, and possibly two, versus I-AAs from Texas, Louisiana, and Missouri. Whether it is our fans filling the stand or theirs, it shouldn't matter. People watching us win is what's important.

Currently, our athletic department is like General Motors. They want us to buy on faith that their product is as good as they others, or will someday be as good as the others. They want us to ignore the fact that, as a business, they are faltering now. But, that's just not a good model.

Addendum: Also, in those very winnable games versus I-AA teams, you'd get more second teamers, and possibly third teamers into the game. Experience is experience. Give your young players the experience of participating in winning early in their careers so they can build on it. Seriously. Currently, that's what the big boys do to us - whip us for a couple of quarters, then send in the back-ups...who then continue to score on us...all to the delight of the home crowds - and that's the subject here, ultimately, right? Pleasing the home crowds so they want to come back? Yep.

Edited May 29, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[LongJim]

TFLF makes a good point for 1AA teams. I'm on board with a game like that, as well, particularly against Texas 1AA's.

[emmitt01]

Interesting idea...worth consideration. I, too, very much dislike playing the likes of OU and LSU to start a season. Not sure UNT needs to go the 1A route, but there are D1 schools that would make much better opening opponets such as NAVY, ARMY (on the schedule), Air Force, Rice, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Tulsa, New Mexico, etc., etc. that UNT might could schedule. But, of course, there is the $$$ question. It is a tough call for the folks in the athletic deopt. The money is co very critical, but these games have a way of "deflating" the early season, and I think reduce attendance at home games and overall support of the program. Folks "see" the record at 1-3, etc. and don't think about "who" UNT played...they just see a "losing record". Look, for our "real" fans, they get it...but, how many of those are really out there when it comes to donations, season tickets, etc., etc. Tough, tough call on the part of the athletic dept. A really good point to ponder.

Just for clarification when I say 1A schools and mention Buffalo and Ohio I am talking about teams who are in the same bowl subdivision as every other D1 school like Navy, Army, Tulsa, etc. Buffalo and Ohio play in the MAC so nobody would/could knock us for playing down to the 1AA level.

My point in bringing up far flung schools like Buffalo or Ohio is that these teams would likely give us a home and home more readily than a TCU, SMU, Baylor and such. If these teams were willing to come to Fouts all they time don't you think they'd be coming? Baylor has said they won't come to Fouts anymore, TCU is nowhere on the horizon and SMU is a "rumored" long term contract away.

Personally I'd take any/all midmajor schools who want to come to our house to open the season.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Of course, the other option is for one of us to win the lottery and give a goodly portion of the winnings to our cherished alma mater

Many offices do those lottery ticket pools. Maybe we should all commit to pitching in one buck a week to a lottery pool. Someone we really trust could and our dollars and buy the tickets (probably someone like FFR...sorry to volunteer you, dude...but, you've got the respect of almost everyone in here).

The thing is, I don't even play the lottery. But, I'd chip in a buck a week to a UNT Fan/Stadium Fund Lottery Pool.

As the dude Chris Arnold used to say when he was on The Ticket, "Ya nevah know...."