Will It Happen?

[emmitt01]

http://www.unt.edu/unt-dallas/news/police_grant.htm

UNT cop shop program......boy what that money could have done on the Denton campus.......but of course the metromess and Dallas in particular are loath to do anything for anyone but themselves.....and when a Dallas officer has not heard of the new program.......that is struggling to get the UNT Dallas message out

and you would be surprised what loud voices can do for an administration........in this case you are not asking for something to be built that does not have funding....you would be arguing for priorities to be placed where they BELONG....in Denton.....not Dallas

and while Dr. Bataille has done more than I thought already.....if one saw her academic background they would have seen she was not chosen to be the president of a research intensive "tier1" university she was chosen because she had administration experience in a large university system......again misplaced priorities just like the jackson (not emmit) hire

Wow. If there's anything our chief can do it's politic to make the citizens of Dallas believe "change" is occuring in the department. Nice to see NT was happy to fall in line.

[PerryG2480]

Why, after reading this entire thread, do I feel the need to reassure myself as far as the value of my degree goes? You would think that the University of North Texas is basically a glorified community college from which any old GED recipient can earn a college degree.

Let the statistics say what they will. Intelligent people who make intelligent choices will grow and prosper in life regardless of their university's academic tier rating. Bring on the UC whoevers and Texas Techsters who say otherwise. Sheesh, what a read.

[Censored by Laurie]

Why, after reading this entire thread, do I feel the need to reassure myself as far as the value of my degree goes? You would think that the University of North Texas is basically a glorified community college from which any old GED recipient can earn a college degree.

Let the statistics say what they will. Intelligent people who make intelligent choices will grow and prosper in life regardless of their university's academic tier rating. Bring on the UC whoevers and Texas Techsters who say otherwise. Sheesh, what a read.

You really did it in one sitting? Links included?

Intelligent people will make intelligent choices...and no matter what Tier the school happens to be in...it still produces a degree...and a degree holder is still only 10-15% of the American population...and it is always more important how hard the individual chooses to pursue his career and life than the school printed at the top their degree

[GoMeanGreen1999]

You really did it in one sitting? Links included?

Intelligent people will make intelligent choices...and no matter what Tier the school happens to be in...it still produces a degree...and a degree holder is still only 10-15% of the American population...and it is always more important how hard the individual chooses to pursue his career and life than the school printed at the top their degree

I did read through it in one sitting, minus the links. I need to go back through the links though. It is amazing how this thread went from a simple "Do you think the new stadium will happen" to this.

[NT80]

Anybody else have tired head?

So, how about that stadium...will it happen?

Waaaaay too much banter about academia. Take it to the Academia Board

Back to sports..... As for the Stadium, it has to happen, and for too many reasons it will. The only BIG question we all want to know is WHEN? At least they have now apparently gone from the "silent phase" to the "literature phase".

[3XNTGRAD]

First - I'll say I do believe that we will have a new stadium. It may be getting there more slowly than we liked, but we've been on the right path ever since the new AC was built.

To Checkfacts: I have a different opinion from you on some things, just for the record. I wanted to make just a few comments about a couple of things your raised.

One, Hurley was named "Chancellor and President" in the early 80's, so UNT functioned as a system that far back with the TCOM (now UNTHSC) campus and the Denton campus. Addition of the UNT-Dallas campus does add a little bit more credibility to such a system to some and is probably just as much a political move as an academic one (don't forget the THECB has a "Closing the Gap" plan that calls for adding hundreds of thousands of students in attendance at state universities, so a 20,000 student campus is not unrealistic IF the state comes through with the funding to build that kind of capacity).

Second, I don't know where you get the position that Hurley "ruined" the core curriculum and designed it to funnel people to the liberal arts. Since 1999, the core curriculum includes a MANDATED state core curriculum, giving the institution very few options (and the Faculty Senate, not Hurley, had the biggest part in determining the rest of the curriculum).

On another note, it appeared that there is some questioning because the provost also comes from a humanities background. However, the provost is not the person with the greatest responsibility for pushing forward our research agenda (though she is obviously important as well) since we have a Vice-President for Research. Our new VP for Research, Dr. Prasad, comes from an engineering background and from a school that is on the trajectory we want to be on (he came from FIU, which quadrupled its sponsored research from 13 million to 60 million in a ten year period). I think our administration is firmly committed to working toward the tier I status and is moving forward on initiatives to help that happen (for the record, I am in the sciences at UNT).

[Green Mean]

Why, after reading this entire thread, do I feel the need to reassure myself as far as the value of my degree goes? You would think that the University of North Texas is basically a glorified community college from which any old GED recipient can earn a college degree.

Let the statistics say what they will. Intelligent people who make intelligent choices will grow and prosper in life regardless of their university's academic tier rating. Bring on the UC whoevers and Texas Techsters who say otherwise. Sheesh, what a read.

I agree with you say....to me there is no such thing as a bad degree no matter what school and what country you get it from. In the end it is all education and thats all that matters. I did think checkfacts brought out some good points not to ridicule our university but only to make it better.

[MeanGreenEngineer]

and I believe RV is a hell of an AD and what he has gotten done so far is really nice

Could you list the accomplishments that lead you to believe that?

does anyone else notice that RV stopped shopping for every other job after the al hurley legacy was gone......because perhaps RV finally had an administration that would be truthful with him....and one that would not allow him to extend himself.....and then yank the rug from under him

No we didn't notice that because that did not happen. RV threatened to leave several times during Pohl's tenure, and I don't see how you would call Dr. Pohl a Hurley legacy.

[Cerebus]

CheckFacts, you seem to be unaware of, or ignoring, the largest reason why UNT is pushing new campuses.

The THECB is convinced that:

1) there are too many systems in Texas

2) there are too many non system schools in Texas

In THECB is going to try and collapse most publics schools in Texas into a couple of huge systems. Of course the UT and A&M systems will be there and will take new schools under their umbrella. It would be a huge shock if the Texas Tech system wasn't one of the big survivors also. A big question is whether UNT will be its own system or will be part of another.

That is why the South Dallas campus is being pushed so hard, that is why the engineering school is on another campus, that is why the law school will not be in Denton.

Is it, in the immediate term, the best use of money? Probably not. In fact, if you don't mind this school being Texas A&M-Denton then it's not a smart move at all, but if you want a North Texas system, then its good long term spending.

Also, you seem to have a good grasp of certain items, but not others, your core curriculum comments are way off as 3X pointed out above.

[Eagle1855]

CheckFacts, you seem to be unaware of, or ignoring, the largest reason why UNT is pushing new campuses.

The THECB is convinced that:

1) there are too many systems in Texas

2) there are too many non system schools in Texas

In THECB is going to try and collapse most publics schools in Texas into a couple of huge systems. Of course the UT and A&M systems will be there and will take new schools under their umbrella. It would be a huge shock if the Texas Tech system wasn't one of the big survivors also. A big question is whether UNT will be its own system or will be part of another.

That is why the South Dallas campus is being pushed so hard, that is why the engineering school is on another campus, that is why the law school will not be in Denton.

Is it, in the immediate term, the best use of money? Probably not. In fact, if you don't mind this school being Texas A&M-Denton then it's not a smart move at all, but if you want a North Texas system, then its good long term spending.

1) How would it hurt us to be a part of the UT System? There is no reason why we'd have to change our name. Seems like the support, etc could be a good thing.

2a) Is this UNT-system an exercise in futility? Like, are we really going to be able to be one of the few systems in the state getting started this late in the game?

2b) Is it our advantage to go it alone?

[Cerebus]

CheckFacts,

also, you seem to have the opinion that the administration is sacrificing quality for quantity. While I agree that size does not equal quality, this decision yet again lies with the THECB. They have told the University that they plan to help over crowding at UT-Austin & A&M-CS by having more students go to other schools, UNT being one that they think can handle the most.

The school has been told to be able to handle an enrollment of 45k, and to be able to handle that by (the last time I spoke with administrators) 2015. Many of the decisions being made on campus can be seen in a different light when you take into account this post and my previous one.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I did read through it in one sitting, minus the links. I need to go back through the links though. It is amazing how this thread went from a simple "Do you think the new stadium will happen" to this.

--Evolution??? Oh yeah I forgot , there is no such thing.

[Censored by Laurie]

1) How would it hurt us to be a part of the UT System? There is no reason why we'd have to change our name. Seems like the support, etc could be a good thing.

2a) Is this UNT-system an exercise in futility? Like, are we really going to be able to be one of the few systems in the state getting started this late in the game?

2b) Is it our advantage to go it alone?

Are there any examples you can think of where a system school didn't take on the name of the parent...what was UTEP's previous name, Western Texas St, right? UT-Denton would be just awful.

If for no other reason than shear size, if Texas public schools are funnelled into systems it seems like we would be one of the last...SFA, SHST, Midwestern, ect seem like they'd be on the block ahead of us.

If we can work a deal where we're in the UT or A&M system and get part of their money, but keep the UNT name that would be something I think we would strongly have to consider

[Cerebus]

1) How would it hurt us to be a part of the UT System? There is no reason why we'd have to change our name. Seems like the support, etc could be a good thing.

If your goal is to never rival or exceed the UT-Austin or A&M-CS then no, there is no reason not to be in thier systems. If your long term goal is to be an institution of higher learning that rivals or surpasses them, then you should not be in there systems. Do you think the UT BOR is ever going to allow UTEP to come close to UT-Austin?

Remember that becoming a part of this system wouldn't guarantee us anything, not even PUF money.

2a) Is this UNT-system an exercise in futility? Like, are we really going to be able to be one of the few systems in the state getting started this late in the game?

If you believe in predestination then yes, its futile. If you believe fate is more malleable than that, then why not try and make the very best of it. If we can dream that our football team can surpass the longhorn football team, why can't out institution surpass UT? Of course neither of those is going to happen over night or without an immense amount of work.

2b) Is it our advantage to go it alone?

No, we should all become communists, comrade.

[Censored by Laurie]

--Evolution??? Oh yeah I forgot , there is no such thing.

I see what you are doing here sir...and I like it

[Cerebus]

If we can work a deal where we're in the UT or A&M system and get part of their money, but keep the UNT name that would be something I think we would strongly have to consider

Not even all the schools in the UT/A&M system get PUF access, or get a tiny sliver of it. I don't see why either one of them would be willing to give us access to real money and not be part of their naming system.

[UNTLifer]

Again, will the new stadium happen? If you say yes, then by what date do you expect it to be completed?

I say 2010.

[Go_UTA]

If your goal is to never rival or exceed the UT-Austin or A&M-CS then no, there is no reason not to be in thier systems. If your long term goal is to be an institution of higher learning that rivals or surpasses them, then you should not be in there systems. Do you think the UT BOR is ever going to allow UTEP to come close to UT-Austin?

Just a note. No one in Texas will ever rival or surpass UT Austin or A&M...in or out of their respective systems. Just the way it is. But, fortunately, none of us have to in order to be excellent and prominent. We can make our own ways.

UC Santa Cruz or UC Riverside will never rival in scope, much less surpass, UC Los Angeles or UC Berkeley. So what? They are both freakin' outstanding, as is every institution in the UC System.

On another note, Texas does have too many systems. (UT, A&M, Texas State, UH, TT, and UNT.) Also, there are the odd situations of having 4 or so stand alones. I don't know what or when something will happen, but clearly there needs to be some rationalization. What we have is crazy and wasteful.

[Cerebus]

Just a note. No one in Texas will ever rival or surpass UT Austin or A&M...in or out of their respective systems. Just the way it is. But, fortunately, none of us have to in order to be excellent and prominent. We can make our own ways.

Never is a long time. I really don't see why, admittedly after a lot of hard work and effort, UNT couldn't be at the level of any school in Texas. Aim high.

UC Santa Cruz or UC Riverside will never rival in scope, much less surpass, UC Los Angeles or UC Berkeley. So what? They are both freakin' outstanding, as is every institution in the UC System.

I guess your perceptive is different, being from a school that is already a cog in a system. But why can't the UNT system excel on its own?

Note: I mean no disrespect to UTA, it is a fine school.

On another note, Texas does have too many systems. (UT, A&M, Texas State, UH, TT, and UNT.) Also, there are the odd situations of having 4 or so stand alones. I don't know what or when something will happen, but clearly there needs to be some rationalization. What we have is crazy and wasteful.

The THECB fully agrees. I think a good sign for UNT is that the THECB wants to push so many students our way. It will give us sway when the consolidations come.

[Go_UTA]

Never is a long time. I really don't see why, admittedly after a lot of hard work and effort, UNT couldn't be at the level of any school in Texas. Aim high.

I guess your perceptive is different, being from a school that is already a cog in a system. But why can't the UNT system excel on its own?

Note: I mean no disrespect to UTA, it is a fine school.

The THECB fully agrees. I think a good sign for UNT is that the THECB wants to push so many students our way. It will give us sway when the consolidations come.

I believe the sky is the limit for UNT. I really do.

I also believe in being ambitious and aiming high, very high, in fact. So, I'm not discouraging you in the slightest. At the same time, however, I think one must be realistic and at least aware of other realities, but those realities shouldn't hinder you. However, be aware that A&M and Austin each do about $500 million a year in research; UNT is doing about $14. Those schools have mega-mega endowments, and yours and mine would be just rounding errors in theirs. In many ways, Austin and A&M alumni run this state, and will be the first to be protected in any downturn. Also, remember that Austin and A&M are not standing still, but aggressively moving forward in their own right. Nobody will every "catch up" to these institutions...but you don't have to in order to be great.

I repeat, I think UNT has an awesome future and is of critical importance to the state, and none of this discussion should be interpreted as meaning otherwise.

[Mean Green 93-98]

--Evolution??? Oh yeah I forgot , there is no such thing.

Grow up.

[mean green d]

Again, will the new stadium happen? If you say yes, then by what date do you expect it to be completed?

I say 2010.

UNT Lifer I would agree that 2010 seems like a realistic goal for the stadium at this point.

[KRAM1]

Will it happen? Yes!!! DEFINITELY YES!!! When will it happen? Good question...I am with the 2010 crowd!

GO MEAN GREEN...JOIN THE EXES...JOIN THE MEAN GREEN CLUB...You Gotta Believe!

[NT80]

A big question is whether UNT will be its own system or will be part of another.

That is why the South Dallas campus is being pushed so hard, that is why the engineering school is on another campus, that is why the law school will not be in Denton.

Is it, in the immediate term, the best use of money? Probably not. In fact, if you don't mind this school being Texas A&M-Denton then it's not a smart move at all, but if you want a North Texas system, then its good long term spending.

My hope is that part of this process involves merging TWU into UNT. UNT could certainly push that issue in it's favor as a way to maintain it's system, increase it's flagship campus' capacity greatly, and serve the purpose to discontinue duplication so close together.

[emmitt01]

However, be aware that A&M and Austin each do about $500 million a year in research; UNT is doing about $14.

I think we should close down the university. If we're only doing $14 in research then I may as well start a university in my house.