Unt To Lose Five Football Scholarships

[Cowtown]

Reminds me of Ross Perot's plan back in the 80's with no pass no play.

So we take a bunch of kids whose passion is Highschool Football or Basketball and kick them off the team because they made a D in Chemestry.

Drop out rates soared, and inner city crime skyrocketed. Ahh the the glory days, back when the Fort was the murder capital of the country.

I do find it idiotic though....that the NCAA wants to stress EDUCATION.....by doing what?

Keeping 6 kids (5 football, one basketball) from getting a free one.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---This is evolving into the big problem in education and what to do.. I have coached very little but spend 30 years in public school and even more years (obviously overlapping) in college classrooms, mostly evening classes... which I still am, some day classes now. . I just think college scholarships should be given to players who want and will benefit from an education and not just to those who just can play "whatever" ball game well and go to college for the glory and to have fun. I have no problem giving college scholarships to borderline students if they are basicly good guys and will work in the classroom and want to improve their lot in life.... I do if playing sports is all there is to them... I don't care how good they are.

---What you have described is the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation in education. Keeping these "non-students" types in school often hurts the overall education of the real students who have to put up with these guys and some are sometimes influenced by them to do less. Option II: Kicking these guys out causes crime and problems in the streets. Most parents, real students, and teachers, don't really want them in classsrooms but the public in general understandably doesn't want them walking the streets either. This spring we had a guy sentenced locally who had been an extremely good basketball player (college material for sure, NBA maybe) but he was an outlaw. His HS coach did all he could do to help this kid.... he failed to turn him around. 10 years later he killed his own mom and now will spend the rest of his life in prison. My son and his friends were amazed by him and his ability but said he would likely die in prison... guess they were right.

---I don't fully agree with no-pass, no play because it discourages some from enrolling in more challenging classes, but the basic idea is sound. On this subject...give scholarships to those who at least will work hard to pass classes and benefit from a college education , not just play around and seek glory...

--I may have put too much blame on DD, because the athletic dept in general needs to keep an eye on the guys and give help or see that they are somewhat forced to do what they need to do.. But these guys are legally adults and are responsible for themselves. The coach (DD) in this case should have recruited better and got kids that actually wanted an education, not just glory and a free meal. Don't blame Dodge a bitfor this one.... he may have "seen" them (not worked with them) their last semester but too much time had passed in their college years for him to get any blame. One thing for sure this may be a wake-up call to the present staff.... they may not have recruited them but they need to keep them in school and not run them off..

---The NCAA rules are trying to help education....give scholarships to people who will benefit from an education. College teams should be filled with student-athletes not just athletes (who are going nowhere ). Don't take this as an insult but it is obvious from some these posts that they have never stood in front of a high school or college classroom and understand what problems are out there.

Edited May 8, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTFan23]

Ahh the the glory days, back when the Fort was the murder capital of the country.

And a regular on the TV show COPS.

[UNTLifer]

From the official MeanGreenSports.com website, under the recruiting tab:

Tutoring And Academic Coaching Services

Courtesy: University of North Texas

Release: 01/10/2008

-Tutor

Any and all student-athletes are allowed private tutors for most courses. It is the student-athletes responsibility to request the tutor. We also provide many in-house tutoring in core subject areas such as English, Math, Economics, & History. Please check the "This week at the Mean Green Student-Athlete Student Services Center" ...page to discover what events are going on at study hall at any given time.

Academic Coach

Several students will need additional academic monitoring for the common struggle of transitioning from high school to college.Those students will be assigned an Academic Coach that will assist them with organization, study skills, time management, etc. Athletic Academic Advisors consult with our Learning Specialist for continual progress of this program. If you are interested in this service please fill out the form below.

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle...;ATCLID=1366195

Academic and Compliance Staff Link, bragging about the new "Mean Green Student-Athlete Services Center" at the 'Mean Green Village." Opened in 2005.

Quote: "The highest priority of the North Texas Athletics Department is to fulfill its mission to provide student-athletes with an excellent education, culminating in a degree in their chosen discipline."

https://admin.xosn.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_...p;ATCLID=246010

All of the Academic Athletic Services Links: http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle...mp;ATCLID=67484

Blather on all you want about Darrell Dickey. The athletic director hires in the academic support staff and oversees it, not the head football coach. Neither Darrell Dickey nor Todd Dodge (or Johnny Jones, etc.) is expected to walk every athlete to and from class, then check and make sure he or she is studying every night. As the link itself says, if the athlete needs help "It is the student athlete's responsibility to request the tutor."

Thanks, I already was aware of all of that. You must be an attorney with the spin you put on your replies. Did you even read my post? I stated that the coach at the time, DD, signed players with shaky academic backgrounds, thus without their athletic skills, they probably would have not been admitted to North Texas. DD knew he was taking a chance and it is now biting NT's football program in the a$$.

[moffat]

is expected to walk every athlete to and from class, then check and make sure he or she is studying every night. As the link itself says, if the athlete needs help "It is the student athlete's responsibility to request the tutor."

Funny you should make this comment about coaches walking every athlete to class since sometimes that is exactly what Dickey and some of his coaches did. All year, Dicky could be found outside a classroom or sitting inside a classroom where football players were supposed to be in class. Imagine their surprise when they came down the hall or in the classroom and there was Dickey. Imagine their surprise when they showed up for team meetings or practice and Dickey questioned them in front of the team as to why they weren't in a particular class. Dickey REQUIRED his athletes to be 5 minutes early to class and if he happened to be there and they arrived late, extra study hall hours and running was punishment. If you didn't meet your weekly study hall hour requirements, then you had Dickey Hall. That was meeting Dickey at 5:30 a.m. at the athletic study hall and having Dickey stare at you while you did your class assignments until it was time for team meetings in the morning.

Now lets' talk about this JUCO recruit, Gabe that has to pass 19 hours in order to be eligible to even get into UNT for the fall. I don't think Dickey recruited this kid. I think Dodge recruited this kid. Ironic that no one on this board has even mentioned this recruit and the possibilities of him being an academic bust. Don't any of you question a JUCO having eligibility problems? Isn't that why a lot of athletes go to JUCO before going to a D1 program?

There have been athletes come to UNT who were outstanding students in high school. Making the adjustment from high school to college was a little difficult for some and so they had grade problems. Yes, some even left the program. PHS Coach pointed out that Dodge didn't renew the scholarships of some Srs. for the Spring of 2007. Some of those kids couldn't afford to pay for college and yet they were good students. So, that did count against the APR. Why would an AD and a HC not pay for one semester of school so these kids could graduate?

Why do a lot of you automatically assume that athletes that don't make their grades one semester were an academic risk when they were recruited? Why do some of you continually bash the athletes that Dickey recruited as if they were and are the scum of the earth? Most of the athletes left from the Dickeyera are good kids and make good grades. As a matter of fact most of the ones left are on the Dean's list. Some have even graduated and gone on to grad school. Some graduated early and have actually gone out in the world to become productive adults. Oh, right if I looked through some of the posters on this board's green colored glasses, if Dickey recruited them, they must be scum.

[UNTLifer]

The incoming JUCO lineman didn't factor in to our current situation. If he does, in the future, then that one's on Dodge.

I don't know what DD did or didn't do throughout the course of his day or what he required of the young men. I do know that their were many outstanding students on his team, Scott Hall comes to mind, but I also know that he signed quite a few risky kids too. Doesn't make the kid bad, but when you didn't make the grades in HS, you probably won't in college.

[filmerj]

From what I understand if a kid leaves while "in good standing" or "Eligible" it does not count against the program. Is that corrrect?

[PHSCoach]

The incoming JUCO lineman didn't factor in to our current situation. If he does, in the future, then that one's on Dodge.

I don't know what DD did or didn't do throughout the course of his day or what he required of the young men. I do know that their were many outstanding students on his team, Scott Hall comes to mind, but I also know that he signed quite a few risky kids too. Doesn't make the kid bad, but when you didn't make the grades in HS, you probably won't in college.

These Texas recruits all have passed the TAKS tests and the NCAAClearning House to be able to even get on campus.

How many of you had a bad first year or just a bad grading period. These young men that were told that the school would not help them were Fr. and So. Even after they got the grades back in line they were not taken back on the team. Oh yes this is family. One of his recruits had a .8 or lower and is still in school at UNT. I guess that TD's family has the old those are yours and these are mine

[UNTLifer]

Just so we are all clear:

PHSCoach dislikes Todd Dodge and The Fake Lonnie Finch dislikes RV.

Someone is always to blame in today's world, so I'll pick DD, Slinker and "Jitter" Nolen.

[KRAM1]

This has been a good string of posts with views all over the place...some very thoughtful...a good read for sure. For me, it just comes down to doing a better job of recruiting "students first" and athletes second. That is not to say "second class" athletes as I do not believe that athletes cannot be great students. They can, and there are many currently at UNT that prove that very point...in all of our sports. However, it does mean that we should look VERY VERY hard at anyone who is a non-qualifer or partial qualifer from an academic standpoint and CHARACTER should be give VERY high priority in the recruiting process. The problem here too is that now five (5) students will not get a chance to be on scholarshiop because UNT took a chance on some "suspect" (academic-wise) students in the past. BIG MISTAKE...always is a majority of the time. T Dodge and his teams now suffer the consequences of some questionable behavior recruiting-wise int he past. BUT< that is the past...can't and will not go there...it is time to move forward. Lots of great things happening and I think both the character of our athletes and the academic skills are improving with each year/class recruited. So, mistakes were made, OK, now it is what does UNT do about it going forward?

Get over the past...IT IS OVER...fix it and move on...for gosh sakes, do not repeat the past mistakes.

Anyone like the idea of turning a few current (say 5) football and one (1) basketball athletic scholarships into academic scholarships for the players who can qualify and actually "regaining" the numer of athletic scholarships lost???? Might work...what say you?

[TheTastyGreek]

This all could have been avoided if we'd just hired the reanimated corpse of Zombie Landry.

You think any NCAA stooge is going to even think about slapping us with sanctions if Zombie Landry is there to zap them with lasers?

Heck no.

[eulessismore]

From the official MeanGreenSports.com website, under the recruiting tab:

Tutoring And Academic Coaching Services

Courtesy: University of North Texas

Release: 01/10/2008

-Tutor

Any and all student-athletes are allowed private tutors for most courses. It is the student-athletes responsibility to request the tutor. We also provide many in-house tutoring in core subject areas such as English, Math, Economics, & History. Please check the "This week at the Mean Green Student-Athlete Student Services Center" ...page to discover what events are going on at study hall at any given time.

Blather on all you want about Darrell Dickey. The athletic director hires in the academic support staff and oversees it, not the head football coach. Neither Darrell Dickey nor Todd Dodge (or Johnny Jones, etc.) is expected to walk every athlete to and from class, then check and make sure he or she is studying every night. As the link itself says, if the athlete needs help "It is the student athlete's responsibility to request the tutor."

Overall, for once, I have to agree with TFLF. I was attending a fund raiser for the Euless Trinity HS Trojans Football Team a few months back and took the opportunity to join the Trojans Booster Club. Talking with the boosters officers while signing up, they expressed pretty much the same opinion as TFLF on student athletes having to take the ultimate responsibility for their academic progress, whether they're still in high school or attending college. There was a sense of dismay about student athletes not taking care of business academically; whether in getting good grades in high school, taking college entrance exams, or not making the effort to keep their grades up once in college. I will say that, back in the early 1980's when I was a teaching assistant at North Texas, it was known that there was tutoring available to student athletes; I had at least one student who was taking advantage of that. He was excited about the progress he was making, at least partly due to that help. Honestly, someone I heard talking about students' reading levels on one radio show about standardized testing expressed it best, that basically, students have to learn to love reading to become good readers. The same is true for learning generally, in my experience. Personally, I had an advantage in already knowing how to read before I even got to school. We had no television at home at that time; the evening's entertainment was my older brothers and sisters studying around the table after supper and chores, and the younger ones watching them.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Newsflash - Darrell Dickey doesn't hire in the academic support staff and advisors. That's the athletic director's job. So, whomever our esteemed athletic director has had in place to monitor the athlete's academic progress hasn't been doing their job.

No, but Darrell recruited the players and his blackshirt departure sure stirred up the pot. If the AD and the tutors/academic support staff didn't do their job with the football players, how did they do so well in the other sports?

Is this an academic problem or an attitude problem? As I understand it, leaving the program before you graduate costs just as much as flunking out. I think that grades were only a problem for a couple of players.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

The bottom line is, the coaches coach football. All athletic departments have people to oversee the academics, advising, etc. To blame a coach for the academic progress is stupid. It's like saying that because Todd Dodge recruited Kevin Ealey he's responsible for his criminal activity.

With as much help as schools provide athletes these days, it's absurd for any of them not to graduate. But, you can't force a kid to study if he doesn't want to study, no matter how many programs you have in place.

[Guest 97and03]

The bottom line is, the coaches coach football. All athletic departments have people to oversee the academics, advising, etc. To blame a coach for the academic progress is stupid. It's like saying that because Todd Dodge recruited Kevin Ealey he's responsible for his criminal activity.

With as much help as schools provide athletes these days, it's absurd for any of them not to graduate. But, you can't force a kid to study if he doesn't want to study, no matter how many programs you have in place.

Actually, you are incorrect. They do, in fact, force the kids to study. Whether or not they study wisely or effectively is up the the kid. But do not be fooled, the are required to study.

[buff64]

From what I understand if a kid leaves while "in good standing" or "Eligible" it does not count against the program. Is that corrrect?

According to the news , that is correct.

[flyeater]

I think that grades were only a problem for a couple of players.

Seriously doubt this is accurate. Had just "a couple" of players left in good academic sted, we wouldn't be in the APR pokey...right?

[FirefightnRick]

I have heard of numerous stories of DeLoach as the enforcer of class attendance before he left. Maybe OGG could give us some insight on this.

Rick

[UNTLifer]

The bottom line is, the coaches coach football. All athletic departments have people to oversee the academics, advising, etc. To blame a coach for the academic progress is stupid. It's like saying that because Todd Dodge recruited Kevin Ealey he's responsible for his criminal activity.

With as much help as schools provide athletes these days, it's absurd for any of them not to graduate. But, you can't force a kid to study if he doesn't want to study, no matter how many programs you have in place.

You're right. The coach isn't responsible for bringing in borderline academic athletes in a desperate attempt at success on the field.

[greenminer]

You're right. The coach isn't responsible for bringing in borderline academic athletes in a desperate attempt at success on the field.

That's the most efficient liner I've read in a while. In a one-sentence swoop, you managed to go out of point, take a shot at Dickey, and slap his players.

[UNTLifer]

That's the most efficient liner I've read in a while. In a one-sentence swoop, you managed to go out of point, take a shot at Dickey, and slap his players.

NT had many fine student athletes under DD that performed very well in the classroom, but he also took numerous chances on young men hoping they would pan out. At the time, it was one of the best ways of uncovering hidden gems, but the APR that was recently instituted caused this practice to bite NT in the hind quarters.

I don't think I was off point, just responding to TFLF who wants to blame the AD and the academic support staff.

Edited May 13, 2008 by UNTLifer

[UNTFan23]

The bottom line is, the coaches coach football. All athletic departments have people to oversee the academics, advising, etc. To blame a coach for the academic progress is stupid. It's like saying that because Todd Dodge recruited Kevin Ealey he's responsible for his criminal activity.

With as much help as schools provide athletes these days, it's absurd for any of them not to graduate. But, you can't force a kid to study if he doesn't want to study, no matter how many programs you have in place.

I think putting the blame solely on the academic staff is silly as well. I would say we had systematic problems if we had more sports that were losing scholarships. I don't see Coach Hedlund's team with academic problems.