Unt To Lose Five Football Scholarships

[forevereagle]

This could explain why we haven't seen the football recruits rolling in yet. Dodge and co may have known that this was coming and been waiting to see what the impact would be so they could plan accordingly.

[DeepGreen]

Won't Cinnamon Sheffield have some 'splainen to do?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

NT is not only the worse in the area, but by a large margin. I think the fans deserve an explanation of what caused this rating from the AD. If I remember correctly it was not long ago that NT greatly trumpeted their success with this same rating system. I think fans that blame the players for this are missing the mark, Not a one of the recruits forced NT to sign them. Maybe this is a combination of academic reaches from prior coaching staffs and disgruntled players leaving because of changing in coaching philosophies, but a plausible explanation should be forthcoming.

Two letters... DD (and his quality of recruits)

Their was some accuracy in the color of the uniforms of his final home game.. black... some dark times ahead.

Edited May 7, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[moffat]

Two letters... DD (and his quality of recruits)

Their was some accuracy in the color of the uniforms of his final home game.. black... some dark times ahead.

[FirefightnRick]

I had thought we were fine APR wise in previous years. There's alway's been attrition in the past. I don't see how it got so much worse lately?

From '06

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2349787

From '07

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2857999

Per Vitto's blog this time last year:

UNT fares well in APR report

The NCAA released its latest Academic Progress Report today.

The report rates athletic programs' ability to retain their student athletes and keep them eligible.

The report can be confusing, but here is the bottom line -- unlike many programs in the Sun Belt Conference and across the country -- UNT will not lose any scholarships in any sport and in general fared well across the board.

For more on the report, see tomorrow's edition of the Denton Record-Chronicle.

As has been the norm the past several years the APR doesn't seem to affect many BCS programs. I wonder why that is?

Rick

[GoMeanGreen1999]

--It does to me.... it encourages universities to give scholarships to people who want an education... and not to people who could care less about education and just want to play games and have a good time.. !! Very few of those who flunked out or left gave a hoot about a degree anyway. Give them to people who care and want to be a success in life... and this will not happen.

The following did not lose any schlorships: TCU, SMU, TTU, UT, Baylor, or A&M. It is all about who you recruit... DD did a poor job of getting good athletes and students as well. ... Blame him... he is one that deserves ALL the blame..... not the system.

I wouldn't say it is all DD's fault. After all, all of this is under RV's watch.

[Green P1]

As has been the norm the past several years the APR doesn't seem to affect many BCS programs. I wonder why that is?

Rick

It's because they can more afford to pick and choose from the best of the best. UNT and schools like us on about the 4-5th tier of college athletics are forced to more heavily weigh the risks and rewards of taking what is leftover by the biggest of the boys.

I appreciate what the NCAA is trying to do here, but all it's really doing is unleveling the playing field. I think we should be no more penalized for players transferring away and not graduating, than say UT, with players leaving for the draft and never graduating. Once they transfer away from our program what more can we do?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---My guess.. we were fairly close "to the line".... and the 2007 class had a lot worse results than the one that was dropped off in the counting of grads.. The ones that graduated in 2007 would have been all DD recruits. Next year we will use the results of the 2008 class and drop off some other class.. Is it going to be any better?? This could last a long time and all of these would have been DD recruits. Like I said the ghost of DD is going to be around awhile. Dodge's recruits will not be scheduled to graduate until 2011, maybe 2012 if they give them 5 years. (except JC transfers).

---Green PI understands it, the BCS programs don't take a lot athletes that are bad "academic" risks plus with more money and a very good athletic dorm (we haven't had one until recently) they could monitor their athletes better. . I don't know how they count those that tranfer but graduate elsewhere or those who leave to go to pro-sports (to me neither should count against a program). Some just decide to drop athletics and some leave for purely academic reasons, different major or whatever. I would not say we are the 4th or 5th tier in athletics though. There are the elite ones ( UT, OU, USC, etc.) the rest of BCS, and then those like us.

Edited May 7, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[filmerj]

So can we appeal.. or will we be able to get these scholly's back?

[FirefightnRick]

This made Newy's report on Channel 5 tonight, presenting our unt with the Postal Service head logo behind him while stating we were going to lose 5 ships. But then he mentioned another school also and said the words "facing sanctions" while they kept our logo behind him.

Rick

[Green Crazy]

This means we'll just have to get creative next year, maybe some of our recruits will qualify for other scholerships like low income households or academic scholerships. Maybe some players on the team now could qualify for academic scholerships and forfeit theirs for someone coming in...Rodge's dad can afford to support him for a year.

[filmerj]

Rivals article on the issue.

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=805049

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

READ CLOSELY: ----at the end of the 2007 school year and the three prior years.... This has NOTHING to to with DODGE .. he was not here at all except during spring training last year..

---You are correct about next year, it likely will be no better, maybe worse.... Those also will be ALL DD recruits.... Dodge's only responsibibly will be those DD recruits that should have graduated this spring and were still here when he became coach. Many of those that will count in next years evaluation , never even met Dodge.. they were gone before he came to NT. That is why I stated the ghost of DD will be around for several more years. It will be 2012 before Dodge's recruits count in the evaluation but in the meantime he can help the cause some by keeping DD recruits in school as bad as they could be ... that is all he can do..

Newsflash - Darrell Dickey doesn't hire in the academic support staff and advisors. That's the athletic director's job. So, whomever our esteemed athletic director has had in place to monitor the athlete's academic progress hasn't been doing their job.

[PHSCoach]

---My guess.. we were fairly close "to the line".... and the 2007 class had a lot worse results than the one that was dropped off in the counting of grads.. The ones that graduated in 2007 would have been all DD recruits. Next year we will use the results of the 2008 class and drop off some other class.. Is it going to be any better?? This could last a long time and all of these would have been DD recruits. Like I said the ghost of DD is going to be around awhile. Dodge's recruits will not be scheduled to graduate until 2011, maybe 2012 if they give them 5 years. (except JC transfers).

---Green PI understands it, the BCS programs don't take a lot athletes that are bad "academic" risks plus with more money and a very good athletic dorm (we haven't had one until recently) they could monitor their athletes better. . I don't know how they count those that tranfer but graduate elsewhere or those who leave to go to pro-sports (to me neither should count against a program). Some just decide to drop athletics and some leave for purely academic reasons, different major or whatever. I would not say we are the 4th or 5th tier in athletics though. There are the elite ones ( UT, OU, USC, etc.) the rest of BCS, and then those like us.

You have no idea how this system works, as shown by your remarks, but you want to push it off on DD. Too bad.........

[Will to Win]

This means we'll just have to get creative next year, maybe some of our recruits will qualify for other scholarships like low income households or academic scholerships. Maybe some players on the team now could qualify for academic scholarships and forfeit theirs for someone coming in...Rodge's dad can afford to support him for a year.

I like your logic but can it be applied? Riley should qualify for reduced tuition and fees since his dad is a UNT employee.

Can anyone expound on this idea? and would Todge even consider such an option to free up one scholarship?

[UNTLifer]

Newsflash - Darrell Dickey doesn't hire in the academic support staff and advisors. That's the athletic director's job. So, whomever our esteemed athletic director has had in place to monitor the athlete's academic progress hasn't been doing their job.

That is total B.S. and typical of trying to protect the coach that recruited these athletes and lay blame at the feet of those hired to monitor academics. Dickey provide the athletes for the academic support staff and advisors to monitor. You don't think he took a few chances on some players? You want me to list the names for you?

RV doesn't need to come on here and explain the situation. What he needs to do is sit down with Vito and the media and get this in the newspapers. He should be proactive and not wait for the angry mobs of anti-athletic faculty, Denia residents, etc... to show up on the AC lawn.

[Will to Win]

To calculate the APR, every student-athlete is tracked by eligibility and retention, the two most reliable factors in predicting graduation.

Those who do well in the classroom and stay in school earn two points. Those who pass but do not return to school earn one point. If a student-athlete fails academically and leaves school, their team loses two points. If a student-athlete returns to school later and graduates, the school earns one bonus point. The team’s APR is calculated by dividing the total points earned in a year by the total points possible.

[Guest 97and03]

Newsflash - Darrell Dickey doesn't hire in the academic support staff and advisors. That's the athletic director's job. So, whomever our esteemed athletic director has had in place to monitor the athlete's academic progress hasn't been doing their job.

Is it that easy for you to assign blame?

Yes the academic support staff in athletics has a responsibility to look after student athletes and give them the help they need. Very true. And they do that. They monitor their study hours, provide tutors, and keep track of their grades and attendance. That is their job and they do it.

So yes, they have a role in this problem.

The coaches recruit players. They know the student's background when they recruit them to the university. Certain students are more at-risk than others. If a coaching staff recruits players that are not academically competitive, then one can place some blame there as well.

As for the AD, they are accountable as well because both of the previous factors are under their control.

In the end, the student must also attend classes and study. No amount of support or punishment can force a student to perform in the classroom.

I just don't believe there is a simple answer to this.

[untgirl04]

The part trying to get this all back on DD is a little far fetched. Last year we lost 0 ships so in comes TD, sends all the players that are on the bubble off campus thus counting against UNT this year.

DD would have at least worked with these players and tried to get them on tract.

"That is demonstrated by the graduation rate of our student-athletes, which improved from 37 to 67 percent from 2001 to 2006." This had to hurt RV to say this in the face of losing 5 ships this year.

Don't look for things to get that much better next year form what I hear yes TD had 13 or 15 what ever the number was that had 3.0 or over but he didn't show haow many were gone or would not make the grade for this year. And the team must make the grade next couple of years or they will lose more than 5 ships

What makes you think Todd Dodge didn't work with the students and try to keep them on track? I'm all for giving second chances, and in some instances, maybe even thirds, but after a point, you've got to teach them a lesson in life consequences. One of my biggest beefs with Dickey was that I didn't feel that there were really consequences for not getting it done in the classroom (see Byerly). My only hope is that those students are able to learn from their mistakes and somewhere down the line appreciate the opportunities that they so foolishly squandered. I had a government teacher once who played around in high school and graduated at almost the bottom of his class. He didn't get accepted anywhere to college (nor did he necessarily care), so he went and worked in the real world for 5 years. Then he realized that he'd never make any money without a college education, went to school at UNT, and graduated with a 4.0. That wasn't necessarily an easy lesson to learn, but if he'd just been handed a bunch of chances at college all along the way, he would never have appreciated it, or gone on to share that wisdom with his students.

While all students at the D-1 level have great athletic talents, they've got to understand that the liklihood of making the NFL and being an athlete for a living is very slim. Get it done in the classroom, or go home.

[SUMG]

Found these failing Big 12 basketball APR scores in the Startlegram:

Ours was 924, as you know.

Colorado 873

Iowa State 869

Oklahoma 911

Texas A & M 912

TCU (Mountain West) 922

On each of these....there is this note: Despite having an APR below the minimum of 925, the sport was not penalized for one of two reasons. One, no athletes in that sport left while academically ineligible; two, the NCAA granted a waiver based on circumstances and evidence the school has a plan to improve academics.

Yeah, that's fair.

[Quoner]

Found these failing Big 12 basketball APR scores in the Startlegram:

Ours was 924, as you know.

Colorado 873

Iowa State 869

Oklahoma 911

Texas A & M 912

TCU (Mountain West) 922

On each of these....there is this note: Despite having an APR below the minimum of 925, the sport was not penalized for one of two reasons. One, no athletes in that sport left while academically ineligible; two, the NCAA granted a waiver based on circumstances and evidence the school has a plan to improve academics.

Yeah, that's fair.

Don't confuse me with an NCAA supporter, but perhaps OU got a waiver because of the current Sampson penalties and A&M due to having one of the model compliance programs in the nation.

It would be interesting to me to look at how coaching changes influence these scores once they have been around a bit longer.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

You have no idea how this system works, as shown by your remarks, but you want to push it off on DD. Too bad.........

Again--READ CLOSELY.... the date said through 2007..... Dodge had nothing to do with these guys, he came in the spring of 2007 ...thus had no connection to what has happened. It is you that doesn't understand how the system works. Beside this year's graduation has even not happened yet so how could it have anything to do with what has happend this year under Dodge.... THINK...

Edited May 8, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[PHSCoach]

Again--READ CLOSELY.... the date said through 2007..... Dodge had nothing to do with these guys, he came in the spring of 2007 ...thus had no connection to what has happened. It is you that doesn't understand how the system works. Beside this year's graduation has even not happened yet so how could it have anything to do with what has happend this year under Dodge.... THINK...

I know TD was on campus 12-27-2007, I know that we broke 4 ships at mid year and sent the boys off campus. We did not work with them to get grades back in line so we lost 8 points at that time 4 that we could have saved. I do know that we did not give ships to 3 Sr. the first part of 2007 and two of them did not qraduate on time because they had to work to pay for college and did not get counted in the five year plan. We lost an additional 2 points there. I know we were 4 points away from having an 952. I do not know who was the brains behind this TD, RV or someone else but I don't have to think hard to know that DD wasn't....

[UNTLifer]

I know TD was on campus 12-27-2007, I know that we broke 4 ships at mid year and sent the boys off campus. We did not work with them to get grades back in line so we lost 8 points at that time 4 that we could have saved. I do know that we did not give ships to 3 Sr. the first part of 2007 and two of them did not qraduate on time because they had to work to pay for college and did not get counted in the five year plan. We lost an additional 2 points there. I know we were 4 points away from having an 952. I do not know who was the brains behind this TD, RV or someone else but I don't have to think hard to know that DD wasn't....

I appreciate the fact that you are a coach and the kids mean the world to you. I know first hand how coaches worry over some of "their kids" being the son of a former coach. But, I also understand that these are young men, 18-24 years old, who sign a LOI knowing that their scholarship is up for renewal annually and that they have a responsibility to do their work in the classroom as well as on the ballfield or court.

Face it, NT took some chances on some young men that they shouldn't have taken chances on and it has come back to bite them in the butt. DD was the man that made the decision to take these chances and RV obviously approved it.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

That is total B.S. and typical of trying to protect the coach that recruited these athletes and lay blame at the feet of those hired to monitor academics. Dickey provide the athletes for the academic support staff and advisors to monitor. You don't think he took a few chances on some players? You want me to list the names for you?

RV doesn't need to come on here and explain the situation. What he needs to do is sit down with Vito and the media and get this in the newspapers. He should be proactive and not wait for the angry mobs of anti-athletic faculty, Denia residents, etc... to show up on the AC lawn.

From the official MeanGreenSports.com website, under the recruiting tab:

Tutoring And Academic Coaching Services

Courtesy: University of North Texas

Release: 01/10/2008

-Tutor

Any and all student-athletes are allowed private tutors for most courses. It is the student-athletes responsibility to request the tutor. We also provide many in-house tutoring in core subject areas such as English, Math, Economics, & History. Please check the "This week at the Mean Green Student-Athlete Student Services Center" ...page to discover what events are going on at study hall at any given time.

Academic Coach

Several students will need additional academic monitoring for the common struggle of transitioning from high school to college.Those students will be assigned an Academic Coach that will assist them with organization, study skills, time management, etc. Athletic Academic Advisors consult with our Learning Specialist for continual progress of this program. If you are interested in this service please fill out the form below.

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle...;ATCLID=1366195

Academic and Compliance Staff Link, bragging about the new "Mean Green Student-Athlete Services Center" at the 'Mean Green Village." Opened in 2005.

Quote: "The highest priority of the North Texas Athletics Department is to fulfill its mission to provide student-athletes with an excellent education, culminating in a degree in their chosen discipline."

https://admin.xosn.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_...p;ATCLID=246010

All of the Academic Athletic Services Links: http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle...mp;ATCLID=67484

Blather on all you want about Darrell Dickey. The athletic director hires in the academic support staff and oversees it, not the head football coach. Neither Darrell Dickey nor Todd Dodge (or Johnny Jones, etc.) is expected to walk every athlete to and from class, then check and make sure he or she is studying every night. As the link itself says, if the athlete needs help "It is the student athlete's responsibility to request the tutor."