Bubas Cup Standings, Flemings Saga

[LAZER]

DRC

[NT80]

DRC

"UNT should get a boost from its traditionally strong track team at the end of the school year, but the softball team has dropped toward the bottom of the standings and other schools will pick up points in baseball, a sport UNT does not offer."

How can this award be valid if not all schools compete in some sports? Middle and WKu have won it since 2001 because they offer the most sports....duh!

[Quoner]

"UNT should get a boost from its traditionally strong track team at the end of the school year, but the softball team has dropped toward the bottom of the standings and other schools will pick up points in baseball, a sport UNT does not offer."

How can this award be valid if not all schools compete in some sports? Middle and WKu have won it since 2001 because they offer the most sports....duh!

I hear that is why they are disbanding all awards like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Director's_Cup

F Stanford and their model program!

[untbowler]

"UNT should get a boost from its traditionally strong track team at the end of the school year, but the softball team has dropped toward the bottom of the standings and other schools will pick up points in baseball, a sport UNT does not offer."

How can this award be valid if not all schools compete in some sports? Middle and WKu have won it since 2001 because they offer the most sports....duh!

Fair because these schools have balled up and funded all the programs, unlike UNT and a host of other Sun Belt schools.

[GrandGreen]

"UNT should get a boost from its traditionally strong track team at the end of the school year, but the softball team has dropped toward the bottom of the standings and other schools will pick up points in baseball, a sport UNT does not offer."

How can this award be valid if not all schools compete in some sports? Middle and WKu have won it since 2001 because they offer the most sports....duh!

It is probably the most valid way to reward an all sports trophy. As stated above, every school has an option provided they offer the minimum number of sports to allocate their funds however they see fit. Duh, NT actually benefits from the way the computation is done. If the award was based on an average per sports actually played, not the total points accumulated, NT would actually be further behind. Top 5 based on average: Middle Tennessee 8.35, Denver 8.20. WKU 8.07, UALR 6.65, USA 6.63 with NT coming in sixth with 6.54.

The major flaw with these all sports ratings is that they assume all sports are created equal and that football is no more important than volleyball for example. The other major factor is that track is such a major ingredient in the ratings. Men's' indoor, outdoor, and cross country; women's indoor, outdoor, and cross country account for about a third of the ratings. For example, football in terms of impact on the Buba's trophy plays a smaller role than any of the individual track related sports because there are less schools participating in football.

NT usually comes in third behind WKU and MTSU but this year NT has dropped with no conference champions at this point and only a couple of seconds. Disappointing years in volleyball, both golf teams, and football have erased progress made by the swimming and tennis teams.

[KAjunRaider]

I have heard from our head coach that ya'll are getting baseball. My question is when?

Also, when MT won the Bubas Cup last year, for almost every school you could have given the maxium number of points (for sports not particpated in) and MT still would have won it.

With WKU adding football, along with it's Swimming & Diving (which MT does NOT have), WKU will be in the mix for years to come.

We are having a down year this year, but hopefully our track and softball will give us some points to gain on Western.

Texas is a strong baseball state... you guys would become competitive very quickly.

[UNTFan23]

It would seem the Vito is a phan-boi of the TY Sports blog.

[GreenBat]

I knew it.

[Arkstfan]

With all schools having to move to 15 sports under the Sun Belt umbrella the not the same number of sports argument will carry less weight.

Also if there are only six schools playing a sport, first place is only worth 6 points but a sport like men's or women's basketball is worth 13 points for first. Much better to be dominant in a couple of the sports all play than to be dominant in the sports few play. Winning Women's Swimming and Diving was worth 7 points for WKU, being sixth in men's basketball was worth 8 points for UNT.

WKU finished first in five sports with 11 or more teams.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Arkstfan

[NT80]

With all schools having to move to 15 sports under the Sun Belt umbrella the not the same number of sports argument will carry less weight.

Also if there are only six schools playing a sport, first place is only worth 6 points but a sport like men's or women's basketball is worth 13 points for first. Much better to be dominant in a couple of the sports all play than to be dominant in the sports few play. Winning Women's Swimming and Diving was worth 7 points for WKU, being sixth in men's basketball was worth 8 points for UNT.

WKU finished first in five sports with 11 or more teams.

Yes, it's apples to oranges. If you sponsor a sport with few teams then you're awarded less points for doing well. Unless the rankings compensate for fewer teams or a base award for no team then it's really meaningless comparing everyone that has such differences.

[UNTFan23]

I love pitching soft balls.

[Quoner]

I love pitching soft balls.

Now you are just showing off. No ball jokes for you. Ha!

[Arkstfan]

If I have time this weekend I'll post an adjusted weight ranking on BeltBoard.

[KAjunRaider]

If I have time this weekend I'll post an adjusted weight ranking on BeltBoard.

I think FIU only plays 4 men's sports.

Winning the Bubas Cup is something to be proud of, in my opinion.

I do see a disadvantage on track though, something that we have been very strong in throughout the years. Our HC has been here since the early 60's.

[UNTFan23]

Now you are just showing off. No ball jokes for you. Ha!

Foamy does approve of your sexual word play, however, I think it's funny.

[GrandGreen]

Also if there are only six schools playing a sport, first place is only worth 6 points but a sport like men's or women's basketball is worth 13 points for first. Much better to be dominant in a couple of the sports all play than to be dominant in the sports few play. Winning Women's Swimming and Diving was worth 7 points for WKU, being sixth in men's basketball was worth 8 points for UNT.

Although there are obviously more points earned, the greater number of participants; the quantity of teams playing a sport has no significance in the "all sports" trophy relative to computing team standings. For example there are 13 teams in the Belt. If all universities compete in a sport, a first place winner is going to gain 1 point over the second place team, 2 over the third place team, etc.; on down to a 12 point gain on the last place team. Winning a 5 team participant team sport would result in the same point gains for the winner over the other 4 teams as defined in the 13 team example, but the winning school would also gain a 5 points on all the schools that did not participate. It is exactly the same result in the standings as if all schools had participated and there was a 7 way tie for sixth place.

Edited April 26, 2008 by GrandGreen

[Arkstfan]

Although there are obviously more points earned, the greater number of participants; the quantity of teams playing a sport has no significance in the "all sports" trophy relative to computing team standings. For example there are 13 teams in the Belt. If all universities compete in a sport, a first place winner is going to gain 1 point over the second place team, 2 over the third place team, etc.; on down to a 12 point gain on the last place team. Winning a 5 team participant team sport would result in the same point gains for the winner over the other 4 teams as defined in the 13 team example, but the winning school would also gain a 5 points on all the schools that did not participate. It is exactly the same result in the standings as if all schools had participated and there was a 7 way tie for sixth place.

I think a better measure is to determine what percentage of possible first place points were earned. It is a more accurate measure of how a school is doing in the sports it sponsors. Though I believe the current point system is used as a reward for having a broad athletic department playing many sports. That is a good goal and a good justification for the system, it does not reveal clearly how well a school is doing in the sports it actually plays. For example I know there have been several years where Denver was fairly high up the standings despite playing far fewer sports.

[NT80]

I think a better measure is to determine what percentage of possible first place points were earned. It is a more accurate measure of how a school is doing in the sports it sponsors. Though I believe the current point system is used as a reward for having a broad athletic department playing many sports. That is a good goal and a good justification for the system, it does not reveal clearly how well a school is doing in the sports it actually plays. For example I know there have been several years where Denver was fairly high up the standings despite playing far fewer sports.

I agree that is the better way to determine who is doing best with the sports they sponsor. Otherwise it's mainly who has the most sports and apples to oranges. BTW, I also think bonus points should be awarded for revenue sports football and basketball, just to complicate things!