More Of....the Problem

UNTLifer · April 7, 2008

Agreed. Good lord the offseason is in full swing.

True, but I saw the ad and thought the same thing many others do in this thread. It is a bad way to market NT.

MeanGreenEagle · April 7, 2008

Would ya?

This girl kind of represents the message they are trying to send in the ad. She's not great looking, but she's obtainable (easy admission and cheap) and she'll give you what you want (a degree).

Edited April 7, 2008 by MeanGreenEagle

SilverEagle · April 7, 2008

You are all correct. In fact, why not just do a headline that says 'you could do worse.' To further carry on the point of y'all's comments, consider this. In the 'North Texan' there is a section touting the university's students in all parts of the world doing various things. Do you see any of these students with one thing about North Texas on their body? Not one t-shirt, cap or sweatshirt with North Texas on it. If these had been aggies or horns, I bet you a dollar they would be wearing gear from their university...not North Texas...we are just too cool or have so little pride that the students would not be caught dead in North Texas gear.

Jim, I've noticed that for years.

I totally agree with Rick's (and others) view of the ad. I thought the same thing when I saw it.

Edited April 7, 2008 by SilverEagle

NTPhiKap99 · April 7, 2008

This girl kind of represents the message they are trying to send in the ad. She's not great looking, but she's obtainable (easy admission and cheap) and she'll give you what you want (a degree).

I really hate having to agree with something I really wish wasn't true.

AJR2010OX · April 7, 2008

shes actually married.... and one of those that will still be involved with nt after graduation

I really hate having to agree with something I really wish wasn't true.

Green Guy Bass · April 7, 2008

No one is calling UNT cheap, the ad does. Cheap is exactly the impression it gives. But the ad isn't alone. We have for years spelled this idea to outsiders as being cheap, affordable, accessable blah blah blah. It's sickening, and no wonder things such as alumni support are like they are. No freaking wonder?
And to answer NTPhiKap99's question as to what we should sell? Sell the university as an institution that builds leaders in their chosen fields. Or how about sell some freakin pride. Maybe something like this: Click Here. "...If you visit our growing school you'll see an exciting and diverse place full of living and learning experiences from it's state of the art residence halls and academic facilities to it's NCAA Division I athletics. During any athletic season take a break from the books and step out of your dorm room to tailgate with your friends. Or walk to the stadium to cheer on the mighty horned frogs"..
That's probably shocking to some as to how amazingly easy that was in that ad to promote TCU's entire university, and within the same breath set the tone of school pride? It doesn't sell bargain basement ideas which asks for a hand out of support, it STATES that is what you do there, plain and simple. You take a break from the books and go support the horned frogs with pride. Wow, promote the school, and promote school pride? What a novel concept.
Rick

People that can afford TCU go to TCU, it is a private school with higher academic standards. Like it or not mommy, daddy, or the single student who has to go into 10-20 years of debt don't really give a damn about this school pride you are beating your chest over. I (as an alum who saw his tuition almost triple by the time he graduated) don't really have a problem with this as a selling point. Quck question Rick....were you saddled with nearly 20 grand in school debt when you picked up your diploma?? I am guessing you weren't.....Maybe the bigger problem is the sky-rocketing tuition costs across the nation that not shockingly took place during our current Presidential administration.

Should we sell the other great aspects of our institute? Absolutely. But when it comes right down to it cost is almost always the biggest factor in gaining one's education. Especially these days.

SilverEagle · April 7, 2008

People that can afford TCU go to TCU, it is a private school with higher academic standards. Like it or not mommy, daddy, or the single student who has to go into 10-20 years of debt don't really give a damn about this school pride you are beating your chest over. I (as an alum who saw his tuition almost triple by the time he graduated) don't really have a problem with this as a selling point. Quck question Rick....were you saddled with nearly 20 grand in school debt when you picked up your diploma?? I am guessing you weren't.....Maybe the bigger problem is the sky-rocketing tuition costs across the nation that not shockingly took place during our current Presidential administration.
Should we sell the other great aspects of our institute? Absolutely. But when it comes right down to it cost is almost always the biggest factor in gaining one's education. Especially these days.

Believe me, the people that are looking for a great value in education will find it without the help of advertising. It's therefore foolish (and low rent) for us to advertise ourselves that way. If the school wants alumni who give back to the school, then they are pandering to the wrong crowd with this ad.

I certainly hope that this is not the best ad that our marketing department could come up with.

Quoner · April 7, 2008

Believe me, the people that are looking for a great value in education will find it without the help of advertising. It's therefore foolish (and low rent) for us to advertise ourselves that way. If the school wants alumni who give back to the school, then they are pandering to the wrong crowd with this ad.
I certainly hope that this is not the best ad that our marketing department could come up with.

I read this on the crapper last night and called in the lady to look at both my stool and the ad because they both angered me (I'm a stickler for firmness.)

No one is attacking the girl (since some of you seem to know her), but it is only a few steps away from this:

How much would you pay for such a great education? $10,000? $7,500? NO! You can have it for five easy payments of just $29.99!

NT80 · April 7, 2008

Believe me, the people that are looking for a great value in education will find it without the help of advertising. It's therefore foolish (and low rent) for us to advertise ourselves that way. If the school wants alumni who give back to the school, then they are pandering to the wrong crowd with this ad.
I certainly hope that this is not the best ad that our marketing department could come up with.

Yes, you don't have to advertise the cost of college, parents will find out what it is before they send junior off to it. I'd prefer that ad be trimmed down to just: "I wanted to get a really good education." It should have stopped there and not included the part: "without paying a lot of money". Not needed. That's like Vito always adding the "2-10 record last season" part. Everyone already knows.

Edited April 7, 2008 by NT80

meangreendork · April 7, 2008

Yes, you don't have to advertise the cost of college, parents will find out what it is before they send junior off to it. I'd prefer that ad be trimmed down to just: "I wanted to get a really good education." It should have stopped there and not included the part: "without paying a lot of money". Not needed. That's like Vito always adding the "2-10 record last season" part. Everyone already knows.

You sir are correct. Time to sum this.

1. UNT isn't cheap. It's actually one of the most expensive public schools in Texas, but thankfully the education is worth it and it won't put the average kid and parents into as much debt.

2. UNT isn't as easy to get into as one would think. We saw the stats for that.

3. UNT does in fact have a prestige problem, but it's getting better in small steps. Smaller steps than we'd like, but athletics provides a big window onto a university and when UNT starts to win big, the window also becomes big. I think anyone who was at UNT when Craig Helwig left and looking at it now can see a difference.

4. The ad's quote wasn't the best. Probably should've been "...wanted a really good education" and the copy should've spoken about how it's not going drive someone into bankruptcy to be here.

5. College isn't cheap. The cost of college is a big factor in the decision-making process for kids not looking at scholarships, grants, financial aid, and mom and dad.

6. The people that write copy at the URCM probably need to combine this ad with an entire campaign that looks at all aspects of the university. (Too bad this ad is almost a year old now.)

Censored by Laurie · April 7, 2008

Would ya?

Have

Atleast shes wearing the right green colored shirt

Eagle1855 · April 7, 2008

This girl kind of represents the message they are trying to send in the ad. She's not great looking, but she's obtainable (easy admission and cheap) and she'll give you what you want (a degree).

real classy post.

Mean Green 93-98 · April 7, 2008

People that can afford TCU go to TCU, it is a private school with higher academic standards.

Simply a false statement. Many of us could have gone to private schools with "higher academic standards" and chose UNT because of what it had to offer--and price had NOTHING to do with it. A whole lot of students come from out of state and basically pay the same tuition they would at a private school to attend UNT.

Green Mean · April 7, 2008

Would ya?

In a heartbeat :rolleyes:

SilverEagle · April 7, 2008

I read this on the crapper last night and called in the lady to look at both my stool and the ad because they both angered me (I'm a stickler for firmness.)
No one is attacking the girl (since some of you seem to know her), but it is only a few steps away from this:
How much would you pay for such a great education? $10,000? $7,500? NO! You can have it for five easy payments of just $29.99!

Why don't we just take this to it's next logical step. Replace Dr. B, with BILLY MAYS.

Edited April 7, 2008 by SilverEagle

Mean Green Matt · April 7, 2008

there are some simple answers
continue donating to north texas (and if you get a promotion, up your donation)
join the exes
wear unt gear. if you go to a wedding, wear a green suit. funeral, green suit.
keep tabs on the orgs you were involved in (i.e. go to your fraternity events, attend an SGA meeting or two, cheer with the talons, etc)
continue going to games
if you know high schoolers, take them on a tour of UNT. give them the whole gist of what goes on. promote the shit out of the school.
if youre concerned about athletics, go to the games. a complaint from a consistent supporter of athletics (most of you on this board who take the time and go to games) goes a lot further than a grad who just wont go to games
Do not do what my dad does and call this university a bargain. When you sell Texas A&M to someone, you dont say bargain. or cheap. or inexpensive. just say GREAT EDUCATION. talk about whats going on. throw in some bull shit or two. talk about how you can be a star at north texas, rather than middle of the pack at ut/a&M/ou. talk about improvement.
dont talk about the music school. sure its part of UNTs rep, but there are ten or so other colleges that are great in their own way.
just a students perspective.

The bolded statement above goes right along the same lines as saying we are inexpensive...saying, to a mediocre student, that they would blend in at ut, but be a star at the apparently "cheap" UNT is not what we need to do to promote the school either.

We need to make people aware of what we have, who we are, and where we are going, without thinking that the only option is to make excuses. This whole mindset reminds me of Darrel Dickey, who after every game against texas or OU would say, "we were honored to be on the field with them.." How about we just put on our big boy pants and beat them! Go Mean Green!

Edited April 7, 2008 by Mean Green Matt

Boomer23 · April 7, 2008

Tying into the marketing, I received these questions from a marketing student, figured I would share.

What does it mean to YOU to be a UNT student?

Being a UNT student is something to be very proud of, especially if you are a current student. It is a melting pot of culture, ideas, art, music and athletics. Here, not only can you receive a great education, but you can experience a life unique to North Texas.

How do you show your school spirit and why? Do you have any favorite

events or activities?

I am very involved with athletics and protecting the Universities traditions. At as many sporting events that I can I love firing Boomer the cannon and Ringing the Spirit Bell and driving the Model A. Our traditions are unique, Boomer was built on campus and is one of very few muzzleloading cannons in all NCAA and the Tug is the only motorized Spirit Bell. When at indoor events such as basketball I had to think of a new way to show spirit, hence I donned the uniform in the attached photo. I was able to create a unique appeal that is a real attention grabber. When anyone sees me they think that, there goes one crazy guy who is very proud of his university or there is one funny looking guy. Either is great with me because small things like that show how proud students can be about this University.

Why should students get involved with school activities and events?

College is what you make of it. You can never attend a single event, receive your degree and be on your way. The reason anyone should attend activities and functions is to build relationships, experience new things and to have fond memories of your time in college. People say that the college years are the best, but in fact any time in life can be the best times, you merely have to expand your horizons and experience new things.

What are the long-term effects of being involved and having school

pride?

For the individual, you will always remember what it was like to have a great college experience and will want you children and theirs to have the same great experience. You will want to come back whenever you can especially to athletic events and concerts. For the University if they build and push that experience then they should expect alumni to open their pockets for donations and continue to build up the University even more.

Boomer23 · April 7, 2008

This was the attached image

GrandGreen · April 7, 2008

People that can afford TCU go to TCU, it is a private school with higher academic standards. Like it or not mommy, daddy, or the single student who has to go into 10-20 years of debt don't really give a damn about this school pride you are beating your chest over. I (as an alum who saw his tuition almost triple by the time he graduated) don't really have a problem with this as a selling point. Quck question Rick....were you saddled with nearly 20 grand in school debt when you picked up your diploma?? I am guessing you weren't.....Maybe the bigger problem is the sky-rocketing tuition costs across the nation that not shockingly took place during our current Presidential administration.
Should we sell the other great aspects of our institute? Absolutely. But when it comes right down to it cost is almost always the biggest factor in gaining one's education. Especially these days.

Do you know that TCU has higher academic standards, or you just assuming they do because they are a private school and cost more money? Privates mostly do a good job of masking their requirements, but I think if you actually want to investigate you will find that there is little difference. The vast majority that get into UNT could also get into SMU or TCU assuming financing was not an issue. It is much more difficult to get into UT than SMU, Baylor or TCU. The privates in general do have higher average SAT entry scores than NT, but when you factor in the percentage of students receiving academic based student aid and the undeniable correlation between wealth and pre-college education; you would expect a more significant variation.

GreenBlooded1 · April 7, 2008

This was the attached image

Great Picture dude... but where was your tallon!! Give the eagle claw man!

April 7, 2008

Once again for those of you in the cheap seats "Look up the definition of the word value!" Too lazy? I will be happy to provide:

American Heritage Dictionary

"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit: the value of an education."

So we shouldn't market our value? Cost doesn't matter? Do you really think that parents do not consider cost when they help their child select a college? Seriously? When I went to UNT 10 years ago it was about $1000-$1200 a semester (or something like that). Now 15 hours is $3,383.40. I am pretty sure that the average income of a household hasn't tripled over that time. Cost matters. Period. And the university is right to include that it is rated as a "Best Buy" and it is not alone in doing so.

You think that because little old UNT is so sad and pathetic in the Sun Belt that we have to market ourselves as cheap. Wrong! Check out the FAQs from the University of Arkansas (which in case you didn't notice, is in the SEC):

How much will it cost for me to attend the U of A?

For the third year in a row, the U of A has earned a place among " America's 100 Best College Buys." Why? Because whether you are an Arkansan paying in-state tuition or coming from out of state, you are getting an incredible bargain for the high quality education available on our campus!

By the way, that is the same list that UNT is on.

Or how about the first thing that appears on the cost section of the University of South Carolina admissions site:

Recently, Kiplingers Personal Finance magazine named the University of South Carolina as one of the “100 Best Values in Public Education.” That’s not the only list you’ll find us on— U.S. News & World Report ranks the University of South Carolina as one of the best national public institutions. When your son or daughter attends USC, you’ll find that excellence doesn’t have to be expensive.

The website also states that their fall freshman class is already full, so you can't apply. They obviously have no trouble recruiting students. So why would they be so eager to share that they are a "best buy" college? Maybe because it matters.

Some of you mentioned TCU. On their freshman admissions page, even they mention cost:

"Cost

Don't rule out any school based on its "sticker price." Most have significant financial aid opportunities that can cut the cost by as much as half for many students."

By the way they also sell their location. I know some of you hate that people go to UNT because of its location, but that matters too.

"Location

Make sure the school you choose is in a place that offers activities you enjoy and diverse job opportunities in case you stay there after you graduate."

This year, UNT is as large as ever. Yet, UNT rejected more students that ever. What is the connection? Admission standards have increased for freshmen considerably over the years. My guess is that some of you could not get in to UNT under the current standards. (As an example, I was a complete screw-up in high school and ended up in the 3rd quarter of my graduating class. My 1130 on the SAT would not have gotten me into UNT today). UNT is one of the only Texas public universities that has consistently experienced annual growth. Texas Tech had to open up admissions this year to get their numbers up and their average incoming SAT score dropped 20 points and is now below the average for UNT. So UNT has increased standards and experienced growth.

Another example. Oklahoma State advertises that they are a best buy on the first page of their undergrad admissions website. They also claim a high Princeton Review ranking regionally. What are their admissions standards? A 3.0 and top third of your high school class. Or a 3.0 and a 980. Yet Okie St is the bigtime? I will take UNT.

There are definately students that do not really want to be at UNT. There are students that choose it because of price or location solely. And there are students that are not going to bleed green no matter what. Boo hoo.

The key is providing a quality education and excellent experiences to all students that attend, no matter the reason the the student came here. My student assistant discussed this with me this morning. She wanted to go to Austin College because of the reputation of their pre-med program. Her father wouldn't let me because they wanted her at home. She loves UNT now and said she is really glad she came. Good experiences equals good feelings about the university.

Sorry for the somewhat disjointed, Plummish rant. But this attitude really pisses me off. Raising the price itself does not make the degree more valuable or the school more desirable. It just makes it more expensive.

Green Mean · April 7, 2008

Once again for those of you in the cheap seats "Look up the definition of the word value!" Too lazy? I will be happy to provide:
American Heritage Dictionary
"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit: the value of an education."
So we shouldn't market our value? Cost doesn't matter? Do you really think that parents do not consider cost when they help their child select a college? Seriously? When I went to UNT 10 years ago it was about $1000-$1200 a semester (or something like that). Now 15 hours is $3,383.40. I am pretty sure that the average income of a household hasn't tripled over that time. Cost matters. Period. And the university is right to include that it is rated as a "Best Buy" and it is not alone in doing so.
You think that because little old UNT is so sad and pathetic in the Sun Belt that we have to market ourselves as cheap. Wrong! Check out the FAQs from the University of Arkansas (which in case you didn't notice, is in the SEC):
How much will it cost for me to attend the U of A?
For the third year in a row, the U of A has earned a place among " America's 100 Best College Buys." Why? Because whether you are an Arkansan paying in-state tuition or coming from out of state, you are getting an incredible bargain for the high quality education available on our campus!
By the way, that is the same list that UNT is on.
Or how about the first thing that appears on the cost section of the University of South Carolina admissions site:
Recently, Kiplingers Personal Finance magazine named the University of South Carolina as one of the “100 Best Values in Public Education.” That’s not the only list you’ll find us on— U.S. News & World Report ranks the University of South Carolina as one of the best national public institutions. When your son or daughter attends USC, you’ll find that excellence doesn’t have to be expensive.
The website also states that their fall freshman class is already full, so you can't apply. They obviously have no trouble recruiting students. So why would they be so eager to share that they are a "best buy" college? Maybe because it matters.
Some of you mentioned TCU. On their freshman admissions page, even they mention cost:
"Cost
Don't rule out any school based on its "sticker price." Most have significant financial aid opportunities that can cut the cost by as much as half for many students."
By the way they also sell their location. I know some of you hate that people go to UNT because of its location, but that matters too.
"Location
Make sure the school you choose is in a place that offers activities you enjoy and diverse job opportunities in case you stay there after you graduate."
This year, UNT is as large as ever. Yet, UNT rejected more students that ever. What is the connection? Admission standards have increased for freshmen considerably over the years. My guess is that some of you could not get in to UNT under the current standards. (As an example, I was a complete screw-up in high school and ended up in the 3rd quarter of my graduating class. My 1130 on the SAT would not have gotten me into UNT today). UNT is one of the only Texas public universities that has consistently experienced annual growth. Texas Tech had to open up admissions this year to get their numbers up and their average incoming SAT score dropped 20 points and is now below the average for UNT. So UNT has increased standards and experienced growth.
Another example. Oklahoma State advertises that they are a best buy on the first page of their undergrad admissions website. They also claim a high Princeton Review ranking regionally. What are their admissions standards? A 3.0 and top third of your high school class. Or a 3.0 and a 980. Yet Okie St is the bigtime? I will take UNT.
There are definately students that do not really want to be at UNT. There are students that choose it because of price or location solely. And there are students that are not going to bleed green no matter what. Boo hoo.
The key is providing a quality education and excellent experiences to all students that attend, no matter the reason the the student came here. My student assistant discussed this with me this morning. She wanted to go to Austin College because of the reputation of their pre-med program. Her father wouldn't let me because they wanted her at home. She loves UNT now and said she is really glad she came. Good experiences equals good feelings about the university.
Sorry for the somewhat disjointed, Plummish rant. But this attitude really pisses me off. Raising the price itself does not make the degree more valuable or the school more desirable. It just makes it more expensive.

Finally someone spoke the truth!!! In a Norm Hitzges-esque voice "I love you"

GreenAlums · April 7, 2008

I would much rather have a student accepted in to UNT that truly wanted to be at UNT, even if he/she had a slightly lower entrance scores! I want passion, pride and integrity. Someone like that will work harder and produce better for themselves, higher education and UNT in the long run, IMHO!

Sense I didn't go to school to be a president or even in an executive position at one of finer insitutions of higher education, I will leave the marketing and management calls to them. If I ever decide I want to tell them how UNT should be managed, I'll seek the education first. Don't tell me how to run a hospital and I won't tell you how to run a universtity.

Boomer23 · April 7, 2008

I would much rather have a student accepted in to UNT that truly wanted to be at UNT, even if he/she had a slightly lower entrance scores! I want passion, pride and integrity. Someone like that will work harder and produce better for themselves, higher education and UNT in the long run, IMHO!

To let you all know I did not get into UNT on my first try even though I did get into other of those big "Private" schools. I am an average student who really wanted to come to this University. I did not take no for an answer and after writing another letter I was accepted. I had to take PSYC 1000 my first semester, a class that teaches you how to succeed in college. I did not need the clas,s I got over 100 in the end. What I did have was a great teacher who loved working at UNT and even gave extra credit for those who wore green on fridays.

It was decided to get rid of the PSYC 1000 class. I have suggested to many officials that we create a new class. One that all incoming freshmen must take. The focus of the class would be the history of the University, all the different schools and possible fields of study and especially teaching tradition. This class would be so valuable showing incoming freshmen all the possibilities they can take rather than just being an undecided major for 3 years. Get them doing something they want to do and also get them involved with the university by participating and enforcing tradition.

untgirl04 · April 7, 2008

People that can afford TCU go to TCU, it is a private school with higher academic standards. Like it or not mommy, daddy, or the single student who has to go into 10-20 years of debt don't really give a damn about this school pride you are beating your chest over. I (as an alum who saw his tuition almost triple by the time he graduated) don't really have a problem with this as a selling point. Quck question Rick....were you saddled with nearly 20 grand in school debt when you picked up your diploma?? I am guessing you weren't.....Maybe the bigger problem is the sky-rocketing tuition costs across the nation that not shockingly took place during our current Presidential administration.
Should we sell the other great aspects of our institute? Absolutely. But when it comes right down to it cost is almost always the biggest factor in gaining one's education. Especially these days.

Having probably been in college around the time you were (since my tuition also tripled between my freshman and senior years - and I condensed that into three years), I can't disagree with you on the rising costs of education. However, I just want to point out that education is regulated by the state not federal government. Thank Rick Perry and the Texas Legislature for deregulating tuition if you want to gripe about the tuition increase.

TCU does not have higher academic standards. Their school of business was only accredited a few years ago. And just to prove your theory wrong on affording the college and going to TCU... I was one of the lucky ones whose parents could pay for my college education. I was accepted at Brown University, Bryn Mawr, and Baylor, but chose to go to UNT because of its programs, location, and the feeling I got when I stepped on the campus.

Edited April 7, 2008 by untgirl04