More Of....the Problem

FirefightnRick · April 6, 2008

For those of you who think the 100 College Best Buys sales pitch to future students is some kind of myth then look no further than inside the back page of this quarter of the "North Texan".

In bold letters a quote from a lovely North Texas coed who is wearing a UNT shirt.

........"I wanted to get a really good education without paying a lot of money", -Nancy Kidder, political science and English major
then below that the pitch.....
........."UNT offers it all----99 bachelor's degree programs, 104 master's and 49 doctoral degree programss, 300 student organizations, several new residence halls, Division I athletics, a first-class recreation center and all the advantages of a student-centered public research university".
.........Learn why we're one of America's 100 Best College Buys: www.unt.edu/value

Folks, that is one part of THE PROBLEM. This ad and many just like it in other publications I've seen around in various magezines screams "WE ARE CHEAP!!!!, so please come here, earn your degree of course, but then go away without gaining any emotional attachment to us and never come back with a donational dime in hand." That is why our season tickets sales are where they are, why donation levels are so poor, why our endowement is so poor and why the apathy runs so high for this school. This directly affects all programs and departments, coaches salaries, CONFERENCE affiliation, availability of merchandise DFW wide....etc...etc...etc. It's as plain as the nose on your face. This message and the attitude it instills has got to end. North Texas is not the cheap @ss education this portrays and it's offensive to me in every way possible and I'll argue that to anyone. SHAME ON WHO EVER CONTINUES TO PUSH THIS PATHETIC MESSAGE ON OUR CAMPUS AND IN OUR PROMOTIONALS. I'M @#$#ING SICK OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I say that if our leadership truly believes this then at least take advantage of the one thing we do have(numbers) and install a large student fee increase(because we obviously can afford to) and build a university everyone can be proud of to the point that alumni will want to return with support in every way possible.

STOP THE BLEEDING, FIX THE PROBLEM.

Rick

Edited April 6, 2008 by FirefightnRick

KingDL1 · April 6, 2008

Well its good to know I graduated from the Value Select University that has it all!

VSU!!!! VSU!!!!

:ph34r:

FirefightnRick · April 6, 2008

This is the ad above.

Rick

NCMeanGreen · April 6, 2008

You know...when I first read this I, too, had an emotional reaction. In fact, I WAS a bit offended! I certainly did not think of the "value proposition" when I decided to attend UNT. I thought UNT was the best choice for me due to the programs it had to offer and it's reputation for such programs.

So, we are the "ValuJet" of college choices??????

Yeah, no wonder we never seem to progress all that much when we have so much potential.

Frustrating...

Greendylan · April 6, 2008

You would hope the university could find a slightly more flattering quote than that. But hey, at least she’s decked out in North Texas apparel! Although I don’t agree with this approach, I do understand the logic: It is a HUGE selling point to a large percentage of our eventual students. Of those who fall into that category, a significant number are specifically thrilled to have received acceptance to North Texas and relieved that they can afford it. However, I fear that a larger percentage of that group thinks, “Hey, that school over there is cheap and really close. I’ll probably just go there for now.”

You may be right about implementing new fees that would, at least, take advantage of our formidable numbers. Personally, I am convinced that the university needs to also make some modest improvements in its admission standards. This would both increase graduation rates and ensure that students who are admitted are proud to be a part of the school’s traditions.

ADLER · April 6, 2008

There's no pride in a no frills institution. Result: no alumni involvement, no donations, no respect, no loyalty.

An institution which is treated strictly as a discardable educational appliance is regarded only as a diploma factory.

Of course this is an over simplification of The Problem, but it is the real issue.

meangreendork · April 6, 2008

Before you other readers start thinking UNT's tuition is a substantial amount less than all the other schools in Texas, here are figures from 2005-2006:

(Semester hours are 15 for the calculations, resident tuition first, non-resident tuition second)

UNT: $6,100 / $14,400

UT-Austin: $7,438 / $16,635

Tx A&M: $6,234 / $13,914

UH: $6,450 / $12,326

TxTech: $6,452 / $14,192

UT-D: $6,832 / $16,612

Overall Texas Tuition: $4,857 / $12,953

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/reports/pdf/0448.pdf

Of the sampling, UNT has the lowest resident tuition and is middle-of-the-road in non-resident tuition. While UNT isn't as expensive as the UT institutions, it's by no means cheap. Actually, it's one of the 6 most expensive schools in Texas (minus the private schools). Most of the schools not mentioned in this sampling were anywhere from $3.8k to about $5k, and only a few schools sitting between $5k and $6k.

Personally, I think the real problem is the admission standards. If you allow in the students that really don't want to put forth the effort, then you'll get the kind of students that no matter how they pay for their education, won't really care about where they got it from. I mean, why rule out the students who are short on money but long on effort? A student's admission qualifications are sort-of an indication of the kind of pride they take in their studies and their education as a whole (I'm not counting standardized entrance exams because those tend to be crap anyways). Get the students that take pride in their grades and extracurriculars, and you'll get the kids that will really get involved and really take pride in their school. Oftentimes, the kids that put the most into their education are the ones that take the most pride in it.

Edited April 6, 2008 by meangreendork

drex · April 6, 2008

You are all correct. In fact, why not just do a headline that says 'you could do worse.' To further carry on the point of y'all's comments, consider this. In the 'North Texan' there is a section touting the university's students in all parts of the world doing various things. Do you see any of these students with one thing about North Texas on their body? Not one t-shirt, cap or sweatshirt with North Texas on it. If these had been aggies or horns, I bet you a dollar they would be wearing gear from their university...not North Texas...we are just too cool or have so little pride that the students would not be caught dead in North Texas gear.

emmitt01 · April 6, 2008

Would ya?

meangreendork · April 6, 2008

Yeah, I would. Too bad I'm taken and she's very much married.

meangreendork · April 6, 2008

...we are just too cool or have so little pride that the students would not be caught dead in North Texas gear.

I guess. I see more and more people with NT gear on around Texas every year. There's also a new sighting for other GMG members in other places every so often, too. But like anything great, it all needs to be started and it takes time to build. We're getting there.

NTPhiKap99 · April 6, 2008

I guess. I see more and more people with NT gear on around Texas every year. There's also a new sighting for other GMG members in other places every so often, too. But like anything great, it all needs to be started and it takes time to build. We're getting there.

Our exposer has definitely grown in the past decade but you still see way too many logos from other schools on campus. I don't like seeing UT, A$M, OU gear on campus but I can let some of those slide but I was on campus last week and saw a UCF hat and a San Jose State tee shirt I just can't forgive that.

trud1966 · April 6, 2008

For those of you who think the 100 College Best Buys sales pitch to future students is some kind of myth then look no further than inside the back page of this quarter of the "North Texan".
In bold letters a quote from a lovely North Texas coed who is wearing a UNT shirt.
Folks, that is one part of THE PROBLEM. This ad and many just like it in other publications I've seen around in various magezines screams "WE ARE CHEAP!!!!, so please come here, earn your degree of course, but then go away without gaining any emotional attachment to us and never come back with a donational dime in hand." That is why our season tickets sales are where they are, why donation levels are so poor, why our endowement is so poor and why the apathy runs so high for this school. This directly affects all programs and departments, coaches salaries, CONFERENCE affiliation, availability of merchandise DFW wide....etc...etc...etc. It's as plain as the nose on your face. This message and the attitude it instills has got to end. North Texas is not the cheap @ss education this portrays and it's offensive to me in every way possible and I'll argue that to anyone. SHAME ON WHO EVER CONTINUES TO PUSH THIS PATHETIC MESSAGE ON OUR CAMPUS AND IN OUR PROMOTIONALS. I'M @#$#ING SICK OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I say that if our leadership truly believes this then at least take advantage of the one thing we do have(numbers) and install a large student fee increase(because we obviously can afford to) and build a university everyone can be proud of to the point that alumni will want to return with support in every way possible.
STOP THE BLEEDING, FIX THE PROBLEM.
Rick

AMEN! I saw this ad and thought the EXACT same thing. Love the girl, get the idea, but when I read it, simply put, it comes across like a Trade School . Sounds like you can get a degree via a drive-through window. Even to use the term "value" in the wed address just sounds cheap. I'm NEVER going to understand UNT and it's ideas of Marketing, Media, and most of the time, Graphics. More times than not I'm embarressed. It's crap like this is why SMUt guys have a FIELD DAY making fun of our degrees. It's undeserved, but we left the window WIDE open.

Edited April 6, 2008 by trud1966

April 6, 2008

I agree that UNT is a "value" but it is neither cheap nor does it take any and all applicants. Here's a look at the latest applicants and acceptances from some major Texas universities;

Texas 19,733 applicants, 10,205 accepted, 51.7%

Texas A&M 13,356, 9,864, 73.9%

North Texas 12,664, 8,980, 70.9%

Houston 9,243, 7,666, 82.9%

Texas Tech 9,081, 6,623, 72.9%

Texas State 8,969, 7,306, 81.5%

UTA 8,950, 7,960, 88.9%

UTEP 4,582, 4,468, 97.5%

As you can see, we were the second most selective. Granted that we don't get many valdictorians and salutitorians but we don't just take anyone either. These figures are for both freshmen and transfer applicants. We have the third most freshman applicants in Texas but the most transfer applicants; edging out UT by about 60.

What I fear is that this large number of transfer applicants is a major cause of the non-participation by alumni. Add to that the number of commuters and you can begin to see our problem.

Further, we are focusing far too much on distance learning and commuter amenities. Those results will continue to be a quality education but weak alumni support. We have a new provost whose job is, among other things, to "sell" the university to the public. Now, would be a great time to e-mail her and let our feelings be known.

April 6, 2008

I agree that UNT is a "value" but it is neither cheap nor does it take any and all applicants. Here's a look at the latest applicants and acceptances from some major Texas universities;

Texas 19,733 applicants, 10,205 accepted, 51.7%

Texas A&M 13,356, 9,864, 73.9%

North Texas 12,664, 8,980, 70.9%

Houston 9,243, 7,666, 82.9%

Texas Tech 9,081, 6,623, 72.9%

Texas State 8,969, 7,306, 81.5%

UTA 8,950, 7,960, 88.9%

UTEP 4,582, 4,468, 97.5%

As you can see, we were the second most selective. Granted that we don't get many valdictorians and salutitorians but we don't just take anyone either. These figures are for both freshmen and transfer applicants. We have the third most freshman applicants in Texas but the most transfer applicants; edging out UT by about 60.

What I fear is that this large number of transfer applicants is a major cause of the non-participation by alumni. Add to that the number of commuters and you can begin to see our problem.

Further, we are focusing far too much on distance learning and commuter amenities. Those results will continue to be a quality education but weak alumni support. We have a new provost whose job is, among other things, to "sell" the university to the public. Now, would be a great time to e-mail her and let our feelings be known.

NCMeanGreen · April 6, 2008

You are all correct. In fact, why not just do a headline that says 'you could do worse.' To further carry on the point of y'all's comments, consider this. In the 'North Texan' there is a section touting the university's students in all parts of the world doing various things. Do you see any of these students with one thing about North Texas on their body? Not one t-shirt, cap or sweatshirt with North Texas on it. If these had been aggies or horns, I bet you a dollar they would be wearing gear from their university...not North Texas...we are just too cool or have so little pride that the students would not be caught dead in North Texas gear.

I wear my NT gear almost every day. I am DAMN PROUD of MY University!!!

Even in a sea of UNC, Duke, NC State, et al, in this area me and my children wear out NT shirts, hats, and a whole bunch of other gear with pride. Everytime I am near campus (as I was last week to see the first scrimmage) I buy another big bag of stuff for me and the family.

I LOVE my school and show real, strong pride for it...if that is a crime, well, then I say lock me up and throw away the key!!!

Go_UTA · April 6, 2008

But, hey you gotta admit the people putting together that ad know how to pick out a model. The horny guys just glancing at the "UNT" on her chest will get a good impression.

I saw that ad in Houston last week at the Galleria Barnes & Noble. It was in a magazine featuring all Texas colleges and universities.

ADLER · April 6, 2008

We're getting there.

We are getting there? Really? Would you like to recite that long list of bowl game victories in the last 60 years, please also count the 1AA playoff victories? Please add all the NCAA Tournament victories and NIT victories to that lengthy list. Having some organizations give away free tee shirts doesn't signify arrival at anywhere.

All this at one of the tree largest colleges in Texas, a school that has one of the largest undergraduate enrollments in the nation.........

Where we are is perpetual futility. Until real change is instituted, nothing at all has changed. The goal isn't just to eventually become competitive with the better programs in the Sun Belt, but it's to become competitive with the schools that people actually care about beating. The goal is for students and alumni to be excited to be associated with North Texas.

The solution really is simple. Having someone in a leadership position exhibit the courage to actually correct The Problem is the difficult part.

DeepGreen · April 7, 2008

That ad begs to rename our university to Generic U.

NTPhiKap99 · April 7, 2008

First off I agree we aren't selling ourselves the right way but I've got to ask what should we be marketing. Unfortunately at this point we can't compete in some areas as far as athletics and school prestige so what should we be marketing. I don't like the current campaigns but I really can't think of much other than academic diversity, location and the value of the degree to throw out there. I love Denton and had way too much fun during my 6 years there but you really can't sell the bar scene to incoming freshman on a flier. You can't show them a packed stadium or long athletics tradition. So since we all agree we're marketing the school the wrong way I guess I'm asking what should we be selling?

NT80 · April 7, 2008

"Best Value" lists for Universities doesn't always have to mean "cheap education". Just examine this list.....

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews....tudoc_brief.php

Bryan316 · April 7, 2008

One of the first things in the Intro to Marketing class is that you use "inexpensive" instead of "cheap." "Inexpensive" conveys "of little cost," while "cheap" implies "shoddiness or poor workmanship." Those calling UNT "cheap" are actually selling the University shorter than this ad does(n't).

FirefightnRick · April 7, 2008

Those calling UNT "cheap" are actually selling the University shorter than this ad does(n't).

No one is calling UNT cheap, the ad does. Cheap is exactly the impression it gives. But the ad isn't alone. We have for years spelled this idea to outsiders as being cheap, affordable, accessable blah blah blah. It's sickening, and no wonder things such as alumni support are like they are. No freaking wonder?

And to answer NTPhiKap99's question as to what we should sell? Sell the university as an institution that builds leaders in their chosen fields. Or how about sell some freakin pride. Maybe something like this: Click Here. "...If you visit our growing school you'll see an exciting and diverse place full of living and learning experiences from it's state of the art residence halls and academic facilities to it's NCAA Division I athletics. During any athletic season take a break from the books and step out of your dorm room to tailgate with your friends. Or walk to the stadium to cheer on the mighty horned frogs"..

That's probably shocking to some as to how amazingly easy that was in that ad to promote TCU's entire university, and within the same breath set the tone of school pride? It doesn't sell bargain basement ideas which asks for a hand out of support, it STATES that is what you do there, plain and simple. You take a break from the books and go support the horned frogs with pride. Wow, promote the school, and promote school pride? What a novel concept.

Rick

Edited April 7, 2008 by FirefightnRick

AJR2010OX · April 7, 2008

there are some simple answers

continue donating to north texas (and if you get a promotion, up your donation)

join the exes

wear unt gear. if you go to a wedding, wear a green suit. funeral, green suit.

keep tabs on the orgs you were involved in (i.e. go to your fraternity events, attend an SGA meeting or two, cheer with the talons, etc)

continue going to games

if you know high schoolers, take them on a tour of UNT. give them the whole gist of what goes on. promote the shit out of the school.

if youre concerned about athletics, go to the games. a complaint from a consistent supporter of athletics (most of you on this board who take the time and go to games) goes a lot further than a grad who just wont go to games

Do not do what my dad does and call this university a bargain. When you sell Texas A&M to someone, you dont say bargain. or cheap. or inexpensive. just say GREAT EDUCATION. talk about whats going on. throw in some bull shit or two. talk about how you can be a star at north texas, rather than middle of the pack at ut/a&M/ou.

talk about improvement.

dont talk about the music school. sure its part of UNTs rep, but there are ten or so other colleges that are great in their own way.

just a students perspective.