Gas Prices

[MeanGreenEngineer]

Well I did hear on the news last night that we should all be paying $4 per gallon by the end of the week, which is encouraging news.

This thing is going down in flames. Stop trying to save it, grab a parachute.

[Quoner]

Well, as sparse as pickings are over on the Football forum these days, I'm thinking I'll just hang around there. Always hoping for a little rain, but storm fronts can be a concern...

Don't go!

We couldn't join you at your site, so me, Tasty and CBL did our best to bring you back to our site. The thread titles have slightly been changed (those mods are so mean), but we hope you feel more at home and decide to give us another chance!

[GoMeanGreen1999]

This thing is going down in flames. Stop trying to save it, grab a parachute.

You maybe right. It is in a free fall as I type.

[Eagle1855]

didn't need 20 pages to figure THAT out.

let's talk about melt downs. Which do you like better,

Casey Kasem

or

[Green Mean]

This thread has become gonneria

[Eagle1855]

This thread has become gonneria

I was thinking more syfalus.

tomato/salmon

[Monkeypox]

Hah! I knew it! You THINK! You failed the Commie Queer Test, Brainiac. A TRUE red-blooded American male doesn't think EVER, much less during sex. You must be one of those elitist fruitcakes, probably like to vote for well-educated peoples with "ideas." Me, I want a guy I can sit and have a beer with and not think about anything while we watch Top Gun. I don't know anything about Greeks, but I can only assume that they are from far away, and therefore browner than myself, and thus more dangerous. Bushy eyebrows, eat vegetables...

... in short, I got you, commie.

[UNTFan23]

[MeanMag]

The think I liked about Hitler was his attitude of anyone, anytime. His zombie ghost even challenged the English to meet him in the Safeway parking lot after the war. Of course, those cowards declined, claiming he was in a lower division (the damned undead) and that they had nothing to gain from the match up.

Still, Germany has done a good job rebuilding and put those days behind them. For two nations that faced an economic (or worse) death penalty, Japan and Germany are really showing us what can happen when you put the past aside and commit to a new future. I wish we had that leadership here.

This is why our friends in New Braunsfels are building stadiums and passing us by these days. We must eradicate the problems.

I say we let TTG's people build it, they have a knack for horseshoe stadiums

Of course then we would have to put up with his "art" being littered all over the stadium.

Fair trade if you ask me though.

[eulessismore]

Thank you, thank you, thank you...and, in gratitude for your spirited defense of my ethnically friendly self, next time you're at the Greek Food Festival in Euless, (held every October), message me in advance and I'll buy you an ouzo, or if you're a teetolaler, a baklava and coffee! Opa!

[eulessismore]

Eh, all Eulesses look alike to me.

Eulessismore looks like his avatar, and will meet anyone, any time, on any Safeway or Tom Thumb parking lot to prove it. In fact, I'm going to the Tom Thumb at Hwy 121 and Harwood right now. Eulessismore is a white dude, but many, including my wife and more than one person of color, have said they're sure that I'm not all white. Who is?

[eulessismore]

Hey folks,

I know I'm getting in on this one late, and haven't taken the time to read through the whole thread and figure out all the issues. I did however, receive some insight on the perceived value of gas today that I'd like to share. Two of my coworkers, both of whom work in downtown Dallas and live in northeast Dallas, went down to Sneaky Pete's on Lake Lewisville last weekend for what they thought was a social for GIS (professionals (that's Geographic Information Systems, for you non GIS insiders). They were not able to find any fellow GIS geeks, finally settling for a hamburger and beer, but no professional camaderie. Did they mind the approximately $8 in gas they each spent to get there? According to them, no...seeing many beautiful women at Sneaky Pete's made it all worthwhile. I guess the moral is, if you're going to get gouged for gas, make sure you enjoy the trip!

[FirefightnRick]

Hydrogen/Water compound fuel. HHO

Rick

[Green Gas]

Hydrogen/Water compound fuel. HHO

Rick

Yeah and I have a bridge I can sell you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I looked this up a couple years ago, this is a total scam. In the end it takes many times more engergy to get the conversion then it makes. So it can't work.

Better yet they found all his stuff used, electricty from other sources. Like the wall.

A Car That Uses Water For Fuel

There are rumors (and a few "documentaries" on TV) about a car that runs on water (as a fuel). The rumors say that the big oil (and car) companies are suppressing the idea, because it will put them out of business.

The original idea was a well-known scam that a few con-artists have pulled off, over the years. They made cars that actually ran on something other than water. They filled a large gas-tank-like tank with water, and maybe threw in a special pill. And the car drove off, probably running on gasoline or natural gas, from a hidden tank.

The idea gets a small amount of credibility because water can be divided up into hydrogen and oxygen, using electrolysis. Hydrogen can be burned, very nicely, in oxygen, to form water, with no pollution. Of course the water can then be split up into hydrogen and oxygen. Maybe we can even use the burning of the hydrogen to run the generator for the electrolysis. Free energy.

Does that sound suspicious to you? It is perpetual motion, something for nothing. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says "No way José/Josita." This whole idea is a violation of physical laws. Electrolysis of water takes a huge amount of energy, much more than can be generated by burning the hydrogen.

But, go ahead and invest your money in the invention. Or you can throw your money down a toilet. It's about the same.

[FirefightnRick]

Surge Technology?

Rick

[Green Gas]

Surge Technology?

Rick

Not to rain on your parade but, It

Can't work there is no such thing a perpetual motion machines, and that is what he is showing. And even if you could get close to one attaching a generator to it would cause resistance and all would be done.

Only if you want to break one most fundamental laws of physics, but then you may need to be God.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics

© Copyright 2000, Jim Loy

We saw in the Law of Conservation of Energy, that energy is not gained or lost. The total energy in a closed system (where energy is not coming in or going out) remains the same. In physics, we study the ways in which energy changes forms, from kinetic energy to heat for example. And energy can move from one place to another or from one object to another.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that (again in a closed system) energy goes from a usable form to a less usable form. Things run downhill, flywheels slow to a stop, useful kinetic energy becomes useless heat. No physical process, no machine, is ever 100% efficient. Energy is not lost, but for all practical purposes, it is lost, as it is no longer usable.

To confuse this issue somewhat, physicists have come up with a measure of this loss of usable energy, called entropy. Another way of stating the Second Law is that entropy (unusable energy) tends to increase. Things run down, entropy goes up.

The Second Law also applies to communications and information theory. In these fields, information tends to be lost, and order tends to decrease. Entropy is then a measure of the loss of information and order. This loss of order also applies to physical systems, but can be confusing. A snowflake seems to have much more order than the moist air that it came from, even though it has lost energy in becoming a snowflake. It turns out that the order was there all along. The water molecules had to freeze together for us to see that order.

In order to help you remember these two laws, physicists often joke that the Law of Conservation of Energy says that you cannot come out ahead; and the Second Law of Thermodynamics says that you cannot break even. These two laws are the most tested and verified laws in all of science.

[FirefightnRick]

The Tesla should be available, soon. ABC News

Rick

Edited June 3, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[Green Gas]

The Tesla should be available, soon. ABC News

Rick

Now that is the real deal!!

Hell on the blind though!

Edited June 3, 2008 by Green Gas

[Eagle1855]

wow, someone somehow managed to steer this thing back on topic. Kudos.

Regarding Tesla, those things are awesome! Im all for it. Problem is, a lot of people make a lot of money with oil. And Im guessing there are several countries in a certain part of the world that stand to lose a great deal of income if we find alternative methods to power our vehicles. I mean, I don't really care. I just wonder how it all shakes out.

[UNTflyer]

Exactly, GG. There is no conspiracy of oil companies to supress other forms of energy.

Every time an alternative energy invention comes along, people get excited... until they see the price tag. It's all about economics.

"Solar panels? Sounds great! How much?"

"$1000 each, plus installation. Four of them will save you about $30 a month."

"Oh. So it will take... (mental calculator working) almost thirteen years to get my investment back?"

"Something like that."

"No thanks."

[Green P1]

I can't wait to switch to all electric means of transportation...... I mean, surly the cost of electricity wouldn't be raised at all! We'll all make out like bandits!

20 years from now those of us still alive will be bitching and moaning about how much we're paying for a kilowatt of juice at the Shell station.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Green P1

[MeanMag]

The Tesla should be available, soon. ABC News

Rick

http://www.teslamotors.com/

[yyz28]

Well, let's do some math here -

I can buy an average pickup truck for 30K, and buy enough gas (at $4 per gallon) to go almost 300,000 miles and still be under the $109,000 investment required to buy the Telsa and still have -

Room.

Unlimited Range, assuming I can find a gas station.

A Vechicle that can be serviced anywhere.

Do the same math with a car that gets 20-30 MPG and it REALLY kills the math. Until good performing electrics are available at a reasonable price tag, they just aren't going to be a solution for 99.99% of America.

[yyz28]

Rick

I've got a Camaro that will run past all three of those cars - I'm not sure what that proves? It certainly isn't fuel efficiant.

You'll also note that neither the Ferrari or Porche pilot could hook up in that video - spinning the tires through the 60' mark in both races.

Low 11's is impressive for an electric car, no doubt, but as I said with the Tesla - real world numbers is what matters.

The Electric Atom is Tiny, little more than a frame, so is wholly impractical. You'd have to get into doing the "how much gas can I buy for my 20-30K car before I spend 100K plus to get an electric?" math.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I've got a Camaro that will run past all three of those cars - I'm not sure what that proves? It certainly isn't fuel efficiant.

You'll also note that neither the Ferrari or Porche pilot could hook up in that video - spinning the tires through the 60' mark in both races.

Low 11's is impressive for an electric car, no doubt, but as I said with the Tesla - real world numbers is what matters.

The Electric Atom is Tiny, little more than a frame, so is wholly impractical. You'd have to get into doing the "how much gas can I buy for my 20-30K car before I spend 100K plus to get an electric?" math.

I don't think the speed was proof of efficiency. It was proof of a valid concept of a car.. not the ugly ass aerodynamic civic or prius. It can be a real deal everyday car.

As much as you preach "real world numbers", you can't take the top of the line 109k car and use the math. You can get an electric/hybrid car for 25k now. Hopefully in the near future (after the first run of Telsa's) they will make a real commuter car for the everyday Joe.

I don't see 200 mile range as a problem for a daily driver.. You can get to OKC or Austin, have a meeting (plugging in your car for 3.5 hours), then head home.

Also (if you believe the mish mash), you should do the impact on earth math. How much is it worth your dime to not be putting carbon in the air? How does that personally factor in your decision when spending on a car? For me, it may be work 8k.. then it seems unreasonable. Other people have more tolerance, others have none.

Give me the option of my G35 for 35k that will always need fueled or my G35 that runs on pure electric for 43k. I think I would have made the 43k purchase. We made that decision when buying our diesel Jetta: (extra sticker price of diesel / The cost of diesel over regular + the miles driven ).. didn't *really* balance out, it was close. So close that we just went ahead and got it.. and we love going 630 miles on one tank when we drive to Denver. I am paying for that feeling.. and I am positive that I would get that feeling when driving around in an electric sports car.