Gas Prices

[Coffee and TV]

coffee&tv.....

evidently you missed my point .... this has nothing to do with race and i abhor the fact that you stooped so low as to post a racially divisive picture when i was pointing to the fact that the USA has a lack of refineries.

That whooshing sound you hear...

[UNTLifer]

Not sure on that but I think its more expensive because it is more harmful to the environment than gas is.

It is supposedly much less expensive to refine than gasoline and was cheaper for years. I don't think the effects it has on the environment has anything to do with it, although I could be wrong.

[KingDL1]

It is supposedly much less expensive to refine than gasoline and was cheaper for years. I don't think the effects it has on the environment has anything to do with it, although I could be wrong.

You are very correct, Diesel costs less to refine and so does Jet fuel which is just Kerosene or high grade diesel. But jet fuel now suddenly costs more then aviation gas which they add lots of lead to. I was told it had to do with popularity and refineries being near max.

[LongJim]

Some excerpts from the confusing article, below.

There is no oil shortage.

***************************************************************************

Gas prices keep climbing even as oil prices drop

2008-05-29 07:57:56

NEW YORK (AP) — The gasoline price record keeps getting broken with each passing day. AAA puts the national average for a gallon of regular at a record $3.95. It's jumped 35 cents in the past month and is 76-cents-a-gallon higher than a year ago...

Oil prices fell back Thursday ahead of a report expected to show U.S. inventories of crude and petroleum products grew last week.

Prices remained volatile, though, buffeted about by threats against Nigerian oil facilities, worries about falling gasoline demand in the U.S. and a strengthening U.S. dollar.

By midday in Europe, light, sweet crude contract for July delivery was down 65 cents at $130.38 a barrel in electronic trade on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

In London, July Brent crude fell 86 cents to $130.07 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange.

The Nymex July contract dipped below $126 a barrel Wednesday in New York before recovering to finish at $131.03, up $2.18. At its low in the floor session, oil was more than $9 off the record high it hit last week above $135 a barrel.

"Fears that soaring oil prices could damage demand continue to weigh on sentiment," said a report from research firm JBC Energy in Vienna, Austria.

Also, a survey of analysts by Platts, the energy research arm of McGraw-Hill Cos., indicated that U.S. crude oil stocks were expected to have grown 750,000 barrels in the week ended May 23.

The Platts survey also indicated analysts were expecting a build in U.S. gasoline stock of 400,000 barrels, and a build in distillate stocks, which include heating oil and diesel fuel, of 800,000 barrels.

Prices were still being supported, though, by further threats against Nigerian oil facilities...News of disruptions in Nigeria, one of Africa's largest producers and a major U.S. supplier, have helped push oil prices higher over the past year.

That contended Wednesday with the growing belief that U.S. demand for gasoline is falling as the average retail pump prices approaches $4 a gallon ($1.05 per liter). That belief was supported by two new surveys showing Americans consuming less gasoline.

Demand for gasoline fell 5.5 percent last week compared to the same week last year, according to the weekly MasterCard SpendingPulse survey. The survey also found that, on average, demand over the past four weeks is off 6.3 percent compared to the same period last year.

———

AP Business Writer Thomas Hogue in Bangkok, Thailand, contributed to this report.

[UNTflyer]

There are lots of factors to consider when reading that article. Sure, oil prices have come down a few bucks in the past week but we probably won't see that at the pump for a month or so... just like it took a month or so for the spike in oil prices to hit the pumps.

Saudi Arabia said earlier this week that they are afraid of $120+ oil, and the price should be somewhere around $60-70. They will be increasing production immediately. I think maybe the President's visit last week was more succesful than we originally thought. Maybe the Saudis wanted to avoid the appearance of a Bush influence.

Gasoline demand is way down, Americans are driving less, mass transit use is up. All of these factors should drive gas prices back down. All we need is a good report on the dollar and oil speculators will be running for the exits.

[yyz28]

Gasoline demand is way down, Americans are driving less, mass transit use is up. All of these factors should drive gas prices back down. All we need is a good report on the dollar and oil speculators will be running for the exits.

Good chance you're going to get that coming out of May... Here's hopin'. My hot-rods are thirsty.

[HoustonEagle]

Saudi Arabia said earlier this week that they are afraid of $120+ oil, and the price should be somewhere around $60-70. They will be increasing production immediately. I think maybe the President's visit last week was more successful than we originally thought. Maybe the Saudis wanted to avoid the appearance of a Bush influence.

LMAO they raised production by 300,00 barrels (that is nothing)and have been saying prices are too high since about 50 dollars. Don't get your hopes up that the House of Saud will be coming to our rescue. And to be honest there is not a ton they really can do. They have raised production many times. Often these raises are only on paper because most of OPEC is already pumping more oil than their alloted quota's but that is another story.

If we destroy demand enough we will get a nice drop in prices. But, we need a pretty massive drop to take out the long-term price trend.

Edited May 30, 2008 by HoustonEagle

[Quoner]

Here's hopin'. My hot-rods are thirsty.

Story of my life.

[Censored by Laurie]

Story of my life.

Once again...you can do what they do...but they CAN'T do what you do. Brilliant

[Monkeypox]

US demand is down. World demand is climbing, however, and will continue to do so, as China, India, and Brazil continue to grow. The consumption growth for 2008 is anticipated to be twice the rate of production growth. The change in US demand won't account for even a fraction of what these other foreign countries will require.

I wouldn't get my hopes up about the conditions in the US having any far reaching impact. The best hope is that density in places like China and India keeps the demand from continuing at its current rate (some 6-9% increase each year). Basically, these places are crowded as is, and the impracticality of automobiles may eventually have an impact. However, that's not the case at present.

[KingDL1]

US demand is down. World demand is climbing, however, and will continue to do so, as China, India, and Brazil continue to grow. The consumption growth for 2008 is anticipated to be twice the rate of production growth. The change in US demand won't account for even a fraction of what these other foreign countries will require.

I wouldn't get my hopes up about the conditions in the US having any far reaching impact. The best hope is that density in places like China and India keeps the demand from continuing at its current rate (some 6-9% increase each year). Basically, these places are crowded as is, and the impracticality of automobiles may eventually have an impact. However, that's not the case at present.

World Demand was climbing! But still the futures market is way out beyond it. Brazil are you kidding? They use ethanol and have subsidized it for quite a while, they have dropped imported energy yearly.

As Brazil Fills Up on Ethanol, It Weans Off Energy Imports

Plenty of articles on it.

This is the crap the guys in the Futures market want to spread, the world is out using production is a spiraling scenario. OHHH the ski is falling buy your futures now before they are all gooooonnnnnnneeeeee!!!!

[DeepGreen]

This mornings paper featured a front page graphic showing the average price for a gallon of gasoline in various countries. U.S.A.-$3.94(from memory); Germany- $11.00; Venzuela- $ .19 cents.

As long as the economies of India and China by producing most of the worlds hard goods used every, more people in those countries will be a ble to afford to purchase cars. That means more gas will be needed to power all of those autos.

[SilverEagle]

This mornings paper featured a front page graphic showing the average price for a gallon of gasoline in various countries. U.S.A.-$3.94(from memory); Germany- $11.00; Venzuela- $ .19 cents.

As long as the economies of India and China by producing most of the worlds hard goods used every, more people in those countries will be a ble to afford to purchase cars. That means more gas will be needed to power all of those autos.

Ok, so China is producing a lot of goods (hard or otherwise), but the reason that people are having them produce stuff is because they work so cheap.......and I'm talking almost slave labor in China. India and Bangladesh are almost the same.

Now, can someone tell me how people who work for almost slave labor wages can now afford a car, when they previously rode a bicycle. And can someone please explain to me how they can afford the gas (produced from $120 per barrel oil) to put into those cars?

How can an economy have a growth rate of 6% to 10% on EXPENSIVE ENERGY. Cheap labor fuels a good bit of the growth, but to have a 10% growth, don't you also need cheap energy?

Edited May 31, 2008 by SilverEagle

[Monkeypox]

World Demand was climbing! But still the futures market is way out beyond it. Brazil are you kidding? They use ethanol and have subsidized it for quite a while, they have dropped imported energy yearly.

As Brazil Fills Up on Ethanol, It Weans Off Energy Imports

Plenty of articles on it.

This is the crap the guys in the Futures market want to spread, the world is out using production is a spiraling scenario. OHHH the ski is falling buy your futures now before they are all gooooonnnnnnneeeeee!!!!

Point to one country and I can add six more, many of which are in the Middle East, and are now cutting their export due to their own consumption needs and shortages of natural gas. Others (non-OPEC) are declining for political, environmental, and tax reasons.

As for Brazil, they still import quite a bit of oil, primarily for diesel fuel, and will continue to do so as they further develop. The overall difference in their oil consumption due to a conversion to ethanol has been miniscule.

There are plenty of articles about all of this. I never said the sky was falling. I said don't get your hopes up and base the price of a world Commodity on a market where it's already saturated and for which growth is fairly predictable.

You're only proving my point when you bring up the futures market. Reality in the market is what people BELIEVE. THAT'S what drives the cost for oil, and what you pay at the pump. Right now, they believe that the demand in places like China and India won't slow down, and that the slow down in production from net exporters won't be enough to keep up.

[KingDL1]

Point to one country and I can add six more, many of which are in the Middle East, and are now cutting their export due to their own consumption needs and shortages of natural gas. Others (non-OPEC) are declining for political, environmental, and tax reasons.

As for Brazil, they still import quite a bit of oil, primarily for diesel fuel, and will continue to do so as they further develop. The overall difference in their oil consumption due to a conversion to ethanol has been miniscule.

There are plenty of articles about all of this. I never said the sky was falling. I said don't get your hopes up and base the price of a world Commodity on a market where it's already saturated and for which growth is fairly predictable.

You're only proving my point when you bring up the futures market. Reality in the market is what people BELIEVE. THAT'S what drives the cost for oil, and what you pay at the pump. Right now, they believe that the demand in places like China and India won't slow down, and that the slow down in production from net exporters won't be enough to keep up.

I disagree I think at the present rate, we will see all kinds of alternate fuels in third word nations, where straight up ethanol is already being produced and the cellulose ethanol will be out shortly. Methane, synthetic gases are all now competitive at below this price point. The Saudis are afraid of it. The futures market will crash and hard it is just a natter of time.

[UNT_92_Fan]

Page 1 = Gas Prices Suck...

Page 17 = Gas Prices Still Suck

[FirefightnRick]

Check this out. Put in "Electromagnetic Engine" or "Electromagnetic Motor" on Youtube. There's some amazing stuff out there now that makes you realize what the future holds.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SvB3PiPBozU

also,

Freaking crazy performance electric car. The X1. Leaves Farrari's and Porsche's and Vipers in the dust for about $.01 per mile cost.

Rick

[KingDL1]

Check this out. Put in "Electromagnetic Engine" or "Electromagnetic Motor" on Youtube. There's some amazing stuff out there now that makes you realize what the future holds.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SvB3PiPBozU

also,

Freaking crazy performance electric car. The X1. Leaves Farrari's and Porsche's and Vipers in the dust for about $.01 per mile cost.

Rick

The car electric car is always awesome, but they are quiet, no purring rumble.

The perpetual motion motor surfaces every so many years it is always a fraud, and it breaks the current laws of physics. Not that it can't be done, we (humans) don't know everything. But odds are it is a fraud.

[DeepGreen]

Ok, so China is producing a lot of goods (hard or otherwise), but the reason that people are having them produce stuff is because they work so cheap.......and I'm talking almost slave labor in China. India and Bangladesh are almost the same.

Now, can someone tell me how people who work for almost slave labor wages can now afford a car, when they previously rode a bicycle. And can someone please explain to me how they can afford the gas (produced from $120 per barrel oil) to put into those cars?

How can an economy have a growth rate of 6% to 10% on EXPENSIVE ENERGY. Cheap labor fuels a good bit of the growth, but to have a 10% growth, don't you also need cheap energy?

I'm referring to the owners/stockholders of the companies producing the goods. I'm thinking they are doing quite well. Those countries will always have low cost workers.

[UNTflyer]

There is an emerging middle class in China. The country is no longer comprised of just the elite communist overlords and the peasants.

[KingDL1]

As for Brazil, they still import quite a bit of oil, primarily for diesel fuel, and will continue to do so as they further develop. The overall difference in their oil consumption due to a conversion to ethanol has been miniscule.

Brazil - more then 50% of their transportation fuel is ethanol, I am pretty sure that is not "minuscule". At least not to me. I am no fan of corn or crop land in the US being used for ethanol, nor am I a fan of ethanol being mandated as a mix fuel. I think ethanol should be pure and sold in a separate pump if people want to mix it so be it, so it can compete on it own merit.

Brazil cames it will be completely energy independent in 18 months and will still be able to export ethanol.

Brazil announced it will be energy independent with 18 months

Brazil announced it will be energy independent with 18 months

[Coffee and TV]

Brazil also uses sugar cane for most of their ethanol I believe. Maybe some mustard seeds too. If we could ever figure out how we want to work politically with Cuba they could be sitting on a goldmine of fuel.

[Green Gas]

Brazil also uses sugar cane for most of their ethanol I believe. Maybe some mustard seeds too. If we could ever figure out how we want to work politically with Cuba they could be sitting on a goldmine of fuel.

Sugarcane it is, I keep hearing about cellulose being so great yet no one seems to be doing it.

But I should tell you all I have Gas

[meangreendork]

Further down the pipeline (hahaha) is light sweet crude produced from algae. There was story about this on NPR, but basically how it works is the algae used in the process has an accelerated growth and aging rate. The algae absorbs the carbon from the air, ages, dies, and then becomes the raw material for the oil production process. Then the oil can be refined to produce what's essentially gasoline and when burned, releases about the same amount of carbon it absorbed from the air, making the oil/fuel essentially carbon neutral. It's interesting because the process only speeds up the natural oil production process (which takes millions of years) and does it in a matter of days or weeks.

Just don't expect this to see your car or truck anytime soon since one of the companies behind this process (SapphireEnergy) is barely past a year old and most other companies involved in this kind of research are just now getting open funding and have either just perfected gasoline production or are not yet at the capability to mass produce it since their facilities are still research-size.

[SilverEagle]

Check this out. Put in "Electromagnetic Engine" or "Electromagnetic Motor" on Youtube. There's some amazing stuff out there now that makes you realize what the future holds.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SvB3PiPBozU

also,

Freaking crazy performance electric car. The X1. Leaves Farrari's and Porsche's and Vipers in the dust for about $.01 per mile cost.

Rick

And here is another alternative mode of "commuting". The top speed is 62mph, and range is 35 to 55 miles. The average commute (round trip) in America is 21 miles.

http://www.projo.com/news/content/Scooters...33.36537e6.html

And yet another alternative to gas commuting.

http://cbs4denver.com/consumer/motorcycle....y.2.721076.html

And the gas models are just as impressive.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/livi...scooters30.html

The technology now exsists for us to cut our gasoline consumption in half.....or less.

Mass transit could be quickly developed if federal regulations could be reviewed and changed so that lighter commuter vehicles could be used, such as this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Railcar

The Colorado Railcar DMU is a niche offering. Where passenger trains run on active freight lines, US Federal regulations dictate the use of heavy rolling stock. This regulation prohibits the use of lighter, more advanced Japanese and European models -- except in cases where right-of-way segregation has been implemented.

Currently AMTRAK runs from downtown Ft. Worth to Oklahoma City. They run on current freight lines, and they go right through Saginaw (and other fast growing areas) on their way north. I don't understand why a lighter rail car like the Colorado DMU could not make multiple runs along the same lines and provide instant commuter service for a fast growing/developing area.