Firefighters: Be Bilingual Or Be Demoted

[Censored by Laurie]

What are you saying, do you have racism on the brain or are you trying to stir the pot?

Neither...just pointing out what was a blatantly racist statement

American Culture tends to be nowhere near as corrupt as our neighbors to the south and you can take your pick of countries all the way the south most tip of South America. That culture comes with most illegal aliens coming in from the south who don't seem to mind breaking the law in the first place.

There is talk and then there is reality

Ohhh...I think you sell America short...we can go toe-to-toe with anybody in terms of corruption.

[KingDL1]

Neither...just pointing out what was a blatantly racist statement

Ohhh...I think you sell America short...we can go toe-to-toe with anybody in terms of corruption.

I doubt you have spent much time south of the border if you really think that is true, everything is under the table with absolutely no recourse, well unless you are related to a higher ranking official. If you don't play by the payoff, you can't get much of anything from the government.

[emmitt01]

What are you saying, do you have racism on the brain or are you trying to stir the pot?

American Culture tends to be nowhere near as corrupt as our neighbors to the south and you can take your pick of countries all the way the south most tip of South America. That culture comes with most illegal aliens coming in from the south who don't seem to mind breaking the law in the first place.

There is talk and then there is reality

Not attempting to be argumentative but in short...you don't know what you're talking about. First of all, the notion that the corruption of S. American governments somehow seeps into their people and they bring it stateside is nothing short of xenophobic crap. As I've already stated, it's not about cultural differences it's about money. The great majority of those who immigrate do so for better paying jobs and an educational system that is not third world. That they don't pay taxes and take advantage of our healthcare system is more a product of their willingness to take what we give for free and far far far far far far far less a product of their inborn hispanic corruptness. I mean seriously? Can ANY of you tell me that if there was a department store located across the street from you that offered plasma screen tv's on credit with no ID required you wouldn't go get one? It's the same concept with all of the things we "hand out". Please, check the racist notions at the door. Second, and it's a wonder more people don't grasp this point effectively, it's not the "immigrants" that plague our nation...it's the immigrants children. First generation Mexicans come to America in search of jobs and to escape the corruption of their government. It's not until they have children who are AMERICANIZED, and know nothing other than the freebie culture we cling so tightly to, that we start to see the felony counts rack up. I've never once arrested the 35 year old Mexican immigrant construction worker for burglary, robbery, or dope...but I've locked his son or daughter up a few times.

It's no wonder our immigration policy is a joke. Like prescribing aspirin for cancer we'd rather scapegoat a symptom or two than treat the disease. That disease, in our capitalistic society, is the free-market money making system we allow to drive policy decisions.

Now, before anyone hurts their knees jerking wildly and calls me a commie, go back and re-read my original post.

[KingDL1]

Not attempting to be argumentative but in short...you don't know what you're talking about. First of all, the notion that the corruption of S. American governments somehow seeps into their people and they bring it stateside is nothing short of xenophobic crap. As I've already stated, it's not about cultural differences it's about money. The great majority of those who immigrate do so for better paying jobs and an educational system that is not third world. That they don't pay taxes and take advantage of our healthcare system is more a product of their willingness to take what we give for free and far far far far far far far less a product of their inborn hispanic corruptness. I mean seriously? Can ANY of you tell me that if there was a department store located across the street from you that offered plasma screen tv's on credit with no ID required you wouldn't go get one? It's the same concept with all of the things we "hand out". Please, check the racist notions at the door. Second, and it's a wonder more people don't grasp this point effectively, it's not the "immigrants" that plague our nation...it's the immigrants children. First generation Mexicans come to America in search of jobs and to escape the corruption of their government. It's not until they have children who are AMERICANIZED, and know nothing other than the freebie culture we cling so tightly to, that we start to see the felony counts rack up. I've never once arrested the 35 year old Mexican immigrant construction worker for burglary, robbery, or dope...but I've locked his son or daughter up a few times.

It's no wonder our immigration policy is a joke. Like prescribing aspirin for cancer we'd rather scapegoat a symptom or two than treat the disease. That disease, in our capitalistic society, is the free-market money making system we allow to drive policy decisions.

Now, before anyone hurts their knees jerking wildly and calls me a commie, go back and re-read my original post.

I have spent plenty of time in Mexico, Honduras and my dad was an airline pilot that flew for almost forty years to central & south America. Plus friends from several countries in both central and south America regardless of a person's income the idea of corruption is a way of life. Corruption is in many forms and usually leads back to money, but my experience with corruption south of the border is at every income level in Mexico and other countries south of the border, and if you go with the flow you can make it work. But to think that mindset is checked at the door when immigrants from the South cross the border is very naive. This also depends on saturation levels, people bring their cultures with them, and I am trying to point out immigrants don't just bring their the good qualities of that culture. Also look at the La Eme which is mostly made up of illegal aliens.

Emmitt, the rest of your argument I do fully agree with.

Edited March 20, 2008 by KingDL1

[meangreendork]

Neither...just pointing out what was a blatantly racist statement

Ohhh...I think you sell America short...we can go toe-to-toe with anybody in terms of corruption.

Agreed.

While much of it isn't within the government, it won't be hard to find a laundry list of cases in the corporate sector. The good thing about the US is that there is at least some respect for authority and that bribery and violence isn't quite as widespread as it is in Mexico. Thank goodness for 1st world development.

[FirefightnRick]

As is with crime, SOME people need to either be the victim or put into situations in which they must deal with the victims in some situations(in this instance, illegal immigration) to understand the full capacity of how it's affecting this country. It's interesting and true how much of the free world, including Europe does require their students to learn a second language...MOSTLY ENGLISH , yet the most powerful ENGLISH speaking nation in the world has people that actually think one of it's own should lose their job because someone else who is a visitor(legal or not) can't or worse...won't? And as far as I know most schools in the U.S. require it's students to learn a second language, I learned two(spanish and french) and in fact many school districts require or did require their teachers to gain ESL(english as a second language) certification. But I certainly didn't retain what I learned over 20 years ago because unless you use it everyday it goes away quickly and your back to square one pretty soon. On my job we have latino FF's who are certified spanish linguists who still can't understand all of the street slang that's coming in from different areas. Is this due to dialect differences? I don't know. Should they lose their cert's because of it? Or worse, should they be demoted or fired if because of it some "citizen" loses his/her life because their family didn't know how to properly ask for the appropriate help? The thought of letting a people who are here temporarily or illegally dictate our society to the point that someone could lose their job simply because the visitor refuses to assimilate is insane.

Rick

Edited March 20, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[UNTFan23]

When I was in high school, they taught "proper" Spanish, which was spoken in Spain. The Spanish spoken in Mexico is a different dialect. In fact, I think there are different dialects spoken in different parts of Mexico depending on the region you are in.

[UNTflyer]

No...most Europeans dont need a translator button because they are already multi-lingual.

Good for them. Most Europeans are multi-lingual because they know their native language and English, which is the international language of business, aviation, maritime, diplomacy, and science. Some also learn French. Most Americans are not multi-lingual because English is the only langauge we need to know. English is the most widely taught 2nd language on Earth. 89% of Europeans learn English.

[UNTflyer]

The difference is that immigrants of the late 19th- early 20th-century came to America to become Americans. The migration across our southern border, as Emmitt pointed out, is about money.

I like margaritas.

[KingDL1]

Sal's is good, Tollway and Wycliffe, Northwest corner. New York style. That's not that far.

Tony Barone, Sicilian baby

[CaribbeanGreen]

and THIS is why you are who you are. Bra-vo.

now, back to my Wholotta Platter.

[FirefightnRick]

A dull but interesting read.

The High Cost of Cheap Labor...$10 Billion per year.

Towards the bottom they offer up three options to the illegal immigration situation, choosing the more common sense approach as the answer to the solution.

Rick

Edited March 20, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[KingDL1]

I knew that several of the Pizzerias here were Albanian run but I had no idea about the Army financing. My favorite New York style Pizza is Al's NW Hwy and Marsh (Just the Pizza I like Sal's better for the other stuff like calamari, calzones, and Italian dishes) and I believe they are of Albanian ancestry, and there family started out in the Northeast.

That is still part of what I was talking about, in the northeast and Chicago they still have embedded aspects of the corruption that the Italians and the Irish brought with them 4 and 5 generations ago. To think that the Latino population is giving up their culture at the border seems silly to me. I was a UPS driver for 7 years in Grand Prairie and Oak Cliff then occasionally I would sub in throughout other areas of Dallas. If nothing else it is eye opening to be a UPS man. I delivered to crack houses off Beckley and Illinois, was invited to the dog fights in Oak Cliff, the Cock fights in Grand Prairie, delivered to crack whores in Oak Cliff, in Dallas off Harry Hines delivered and saw up close all the "Wink wink" Massage and Model companies (Whore Houses) it was kind of funny to watch all the Guys show up in sun glasses and look around before they went in. The stories a UPS guy can tell especially a swing driver like I was would blow most people's minds of what really goes on right under their noses. And that is still nothing compared to what goes on in Latin America. I can tell some interesting first hand stories from Mexico dealing with the local police and other times with the Federales, but my favorite story is one my dad and a couple other pilot Friends would tell me about Latin America. That it is was not uncommon still happens to some extent, if you were Airline Pilot and wanted clearance to leave some of the airports in Mexico you had to payoff the control tower. In La Paz Mexico the tower would drop a bucket tied to a rope for their bribe and if you did not pay there you would sit in your Airliner, my Dad said you only had to throw in like 20 bucks or so. To think if the American Airline's Captain would get on the intercom and announce " Sorry folks we forgot to drop $20 in the bucket, but we should be leaving soon the Co-Pilot is taking care of the drop."

The point that I was making without the intent of being racist as it has been called now, that if the Latino population continues to build as fast as it is these days to become the majority that some are predicting, it will over saturate the American way as many see it today, and most likely redefine that way as a reflection of that culture. Yes I think that brings with it much more corruption.

[untgirl04]

It's not that easy. For you and I, if we run off to Europe somewhere, we can probably take 6 months out ahead of time and find a tutor and be French/German/whatever fluent (or at least proficient) before we go. You, myself, and just about every GMG.com member can do this. Odds are, the average immigrant can't do that.

I don't think there's really a way to keep illegal immigrants out of the US short of armed guards on the border. The real solution to this is serious, effective reforms in Mexico, which short of overrunning the border with American troops, probably isn't going to happen, not without the Mexican government getting their own crap together. That said, you can't realistically expect immigrants to know english before they get here...simply because they probably don't have the money. I figure that if they're going to be here, we can at least get them integrated, tax-paying, voting, contributing, and law-abiding.

Besides, the Roman Empire really didn't fall because of immigrants. It's how they treated their lower-class citizens and their conquered as they stretched their military and government very, very thin over an area that would be difficult to centrally control even with today's technology. I don't even know why you brought Native Americans into this...they were swept out by force, and while the initial European immigrants weren't exactly legal when they came over, you and I wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

Also, if I were from Russia and saw some giant monster dropping bugs off its back into the middle of New York, I figure common sense would tell me to run like F***.

I volunteer as an ESL teacher at a chuch, so I thought I should weigh in on this one. One, there are literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of free English classes available in this area alone (and yes, the brochures and flyers are written in native languages) to anyone who is interested. Most church groups especially will work with anyone's schedule to ensure that they get absolutely free English tutoring whenever their schedule allows. The church group I work with provides morning/afternoon classes for those working evening shifts, and night classes for those on day shifts. We even provide free video and/or cassette tapes of lessons for those who can't make any of our classes. And this church is by no means wealthy.

In addition, you'd be very surprised at the availability of English classes around the world. Many countries require English as a second language in school - especially in Europe. For our southern neighbors, perhaps lessons are not as easy to come by in their native land, but they are definitely available here in the U.S. Bottom line, if you want to learn English, there's nothing stopping you from doing it - especially when you're in the U.S.

[untgirl04]

Glad to see you mention Vinnie's. It's a fabulous restaurant. Vinnie, the owner (well, part-owner since his parents are also involved), is also attending UNT right now. Our families have become good friends, and they are some of the friendliest, most caring people I've ever met. They make fabulous Italian food, but their Albanian food is (believe it or not!) even better.

[Quoner]

The difference is that immigrants of the late 19th- early 20th-century came to America to become Americans. The migration across our southern border, as Emmitt pointed out, is about money.

I like margaritas.

My ancestors on my mom's sides came because they were trying to survive. The bastards never even bought a flag until someone in the family served in WWII. Ukranian Jerks.

The filthy Italians on my Dad's side came to perfect the world's spiciest meat ball that could be cooked and shaped only to the tune of the Star Spangled Banner. Sadly, it never took off and we created a mini-Italian mob dedicated to ruining college message boards.

[CorinthEagle]

My ancestors on my mom's sides came because they were trying to survive. The bastards never even bought a flag until someone in the family served in WWII. Ukranian Jerks.

The filthy Italians on my Dad's side came to perfect the world's spiciest meat ball that could be cooked and shaped only to the tune of the Star Spangled Banner. Sadly, it never took off and we created a mini-Italian mob dedicated to ruining college message boards.

genius

[MeanGreenEngineer]

A dull but interesting read.

The High Cost of Cheap Labor...$10 Billion per year.

Towards the bottom they offer up three options to the illegal immigration situation, choosing the more common sense approach as the answer to the solution.

Rick

Well this thread is teetering on lock down status, lets go ahead and push it over the edge.

The "Center for Immigration Reform" is sub organization of the "Federation for American Immigration Reform", both have been called hate groups by such civil rights groups as the Southern Poverty Law Center. Their founder John Tanton also formed Social Contract Press, which prints such fine white supremacist literature as "The Camp of Saints", let us have some excepts:

[As the refugee fleet arrives on French shores, a noble old professor kills a fellow white who is depicted as having sold out his race and civilization. Afterwards, as he celebrates the killing, the professor reflects on the loss of white pride.]The old professor understood. That scorn of a people for other races, the knowledge that one's own is best, the triumphant joy at feeling oneself to be part of humanity's finest — none of that had ever filled these [white] youngsters' brains, or at least so little that the monstrous cancer [of compassion for other races] implanted in the Western conscience had quashed it in no time at all.

[As the Third World slaughter of whites picks up speed, the book describes a scene in a pig-processing plant in which a black man slaughters his white boss after being asked to kill pigs more quickly.] "Sure 'nough boss," one red-spattered black said, "we can sure 'nough do one more at least..." The white man felt no more pain than any of the other pigs on the line. Stunned, hoisted, slaughtered. ... [Hung from a hook, the murdered boss' body] caused ... no special disgust [among the black workers]. They had seen such things before, after all. At market, in the Congo.

[As the novel nears its end, Lydie, depicted as a traitor to her white race, becomes a sexual plaything for the dark-skinned refugees who have now seized power.]Lydie ... died in Nice, in a whorehouse for Hindus... . At the time, each refugee quarter had its stock of white women, all free for the taking. (One of the new regime's laws, in fact. In order to "demythify" white women, as they put it.) ... [in the end, Lydie, along with other white female sex slaves, is confined by the "Hindus" to their] "White Female Practice and Experimentation Center."

[The novel ends where it began, with the arrival of the refugee fleet in France.][F]irst to land were the monsters, the grotesque little beggars from the streets of Calcutta. As they groveled through the wet sand like a pack of basset hounds, or a herd of clumsy seals exploring an unfamiliar shore, with their snorts and grunts of joy, they looked like an army of little green men from some remote planet. ... Yes, the country [France] would suit them fine. No question.

Tanton was forced to resign from another group, US English when his memo stating that the real role of the group was to defend the US from threat of high hispanic birthrates:

Gobernar es poblar translates "to govern is to populate." In this society where the majority rules, does this hold? Will the present majority peaceably hand over its political power to a group that is simply more fertile? ... Can homo contraceptivus compete with homo progenitiva [sic] if borders aren't controlled? Or is advice to limit one's family simply advice to move over and let someone else with greater reproductive powers occupy the space? ... Perhaps this is the first instance in which those with their pants up are going to get caught by those with their pants down! ...

How will we make the transition from a dominant non-Hispanic society with a Spanish influence to a dominant Spanish society with a non-Hispanic influence? ... As Whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion? ... We're building in a deadly disunity. All great empires disintegrate, we want stability.

FAIR has accepted millions of dollars in donations from other hate groups, such as the Pioneer Fund, an organization with the self claimed goal of Racial Betterment, and which mainly uses their money to fund Eugenics studies, including William B Shockley:

Dr. Shockley, co-inventor of the transistor, has for years been collecting material on eugenics and dysgenics research. He said in a telephone inter- view a few days ago from his home in Palo Alto, Calif., that he had reached "the inescapable opinion that a major cause of American Negroes' intellectual and social deficits is hereditary and racially genetic in origin."

This, he continued, "is not remediable to a major degree by practical improvements in environment," such as better schools, jobs or living con- ditions.

He said he was "very grateful" for Pioneer's grants. A spokesman for Stan- ford said that $179,000 over 10 years to Dr. Shockley from Pioneer sounded correct, although the school did not have an exact dollar figure.

FAIR was criticized by several human rights organizations when it travelled to Belgium to meet with the leaders of Vlaams Blok, a political party so racist that it was out lawed by the Belgians. The group called for the expulsion of all "Paper Belgians", aka naturalized citizens who did not have "Belgian Blood".

Tanton's next group, WITAN, was used to put out such memos as this:

Will Latin American migrants bring with them the tradition of the mordida (bribe), the lack of involvement in public affairs, etc.? ... Is assimilation a function of the educational and economic level of immigrants? If so, what are the consequences of having so many ill-educated people coming in to low paying jobs? ... What are the differences in educability between Hispanics (with their 50 percent dropout rate) and Asiatics (with their excellent school records and long tradition of scholarship)? ...

Will Catholicism brought in from Mexico be in the [Latin] American or the European model? ... What are the implications ... for the separation of church and state? The Catholic church has never been reticent on this point. If they get a majority of voters, will they pitch out this concept? ...

Is apartheid in Southern California's future? The demographic picture in South Africa now is startlingly similar to what we'll see in California in 2030. ... A White majority owns the property, has the best jobs and education, has the political power, and speaks one language. A non-White majority has poor education, jobs, and income, owns little property, is on its way to political power, and speaks a different language. ... Will there be strength in this diversity? Or will this prove a social and political San Andreas fault?

I mean, forget the fact that electoral turnout rate in most latin american countries is far high than the US, they are lacking in public involvement. Forget the fact most in latin american countries, especially Mexico, churches have less protection than they do in the US, all those dirty brown people want to tear down the seperation between church and state and put the pope in charge of america!

I don't think you are a racist FFR, but you need to be careful who you listen to, just because some organization has a nice sounding name, doesn't mean they aren't white supremacists at heart.

[Quoner]

Nope - nothing to lock down here.

[GreenMachine]

I guess the old phrase "Can't we all get along" is a little late for this thread? Oh well, all I know is my ancestors come from Northern Ireland and all you bastards better learn Gaelic so you can communicate better with my old Aunt Verda and make her feel more like she's back in the mother country. And while we are at it, I think we should discontinue singing The Star Spangled Banner and start singing other countries national athems so we won't hurt anybodies feelings. I vote for Irish anthem.

[CaribbeanGreen]

Well this thread is teetering on lock down status, lets go ahead and push it over the edge.

The "Center for Immigration Reform" is sub organization of the "Federation for American Immigration Reform", both have been called hate groups by such civil rights groups as the Southern Poverty Law Center. Their founder John Tanton also formed Social Contract Press, which prints such fine white supremacist literature as "The Camp of Saints", let us have some excepts:

Tanton was forced to resign from another group, US English when his memo stating that the real role of the group was to defend the US from threat of high hispanic birthrates:

FAIR has accepted millions of dollars in donations from other hate groups, such as the Pioneer Fund, an organization with the self claimed goal of Racial Betterment, and which mainly uses their money to fund Eugenics studies, including William B Shockley:

FAIR was criticized by several human rights organizations when it travelled to Belgium to meet with the leaders of Vlaams Blok, a political party so racist that it was out lawed by the Belgians. The group called for the expulsion of all "Paper Belgians", aka naturalized citizens who did not have "Belgian Blood".

Tanton's next group, WITAN, was used to put out such memos as this:

I mean, forget the fact that electoral turnout rate in most latin american countries is far high than the US, they are lacking in public involvement. Forget the fact most in latin american countries, especially Mexico, churches have less protection than they do in the US, all those dirty brown people want to tear down the seperation between church and state and put the pope in charge of america!

I don't think you are a racist FFR, but you need to be careful who you listen to, just because some organization has a nice sounding name, doesn't mean they aren't white supremacists at heart.

But the REAL question is, can Casey Fitzgerald put up even bigger numbers next season????

[adman]

Sal's is good, Tollway and Wycliffe, Northwest corner. New York style. That's not that far.

Tony Barone, Sicilian baby

Correction. Sals WAS good. Sal's is slipping hard on the pizza front. Not sure why. Meatball sub is still good though. Speaking of meatball subs Jimmy's Italian Store has great meatball subs and Cubans. They're off of Fitzhugh and Bryan. If you like a cracker thin crust then Louie's on Henderson is good. So is Pizza By Marco, Dallas's 2nd oldest pizza shop, it's at Preston and Royal though. Brothers Pizza at Fitzhugh and Cole? isn't bad. Thicker crust but not Chicago thick.

[adman]

The difference is that immigrants of the late 19th- early 20th-century came to America to become Americans. The migration across our southern border, as Emmitt pointed out, is about money.

I like margaritas.

That is absurd. Money has been the motivation for pretty much everyone to come to the US since before we were the US.

[adman]

I knew that several of the Pizzerias here were Albanian run but I had no idea about the Army financing. My favorite New York style Pizza is Al's NW Hwy and Marsh (Just the Pizza I like Sal's better for the other stuff like calamari, calzones, and Italian dishes) and I believe they are of Albanian ancestry, and there family started out in the Northeast.

That is still part of what I was talking about, in the northeast and Chicago they still have embedded aspects of the corruption that the Italians and the Irish brought with them 4 and 5 generations ago. To think that the Latino population is giving up their culture at the border seems silly to me. I was a UPS driver for 7 years in Grand Prairie and Oak Cliff then occasionally I would sub in throughout other areas of Dallas. If nothing else it is eye opening to be a UPS man. I delivered to crack houses off Beckley and Illinois, was invited to the dog fights in Oak Cliff, the Cock fights in Grand Prairie, delivered to crack whores in Oak Cliff, in Dallas off Harry Hines delivered and saw up close all the "Wink wink" Massage and Model companies (Whore Houses) it was kind of funny to watch all the Guys show up in sun glasses and look around before they went in. The stories a UPS guy can tell especially a swing driver like I was would blow most people's minds of what really goes on right under their noses. And that is still nothing compared to what goes on in Latin America. I can tell some interesting first hand stories from Mexico dealing with the local police and other times with the Federales, but my favorite story is one my dad and a couple other pilot Friends would tell me about Latin America. That it is was not uncommon still happens to some extent, if you were Airline Pilot and wanted clearance to leave some of the airports in Mexico you had to payoff the control tower. In La Paz Mexico the tower would drop a bucket tied to a rope for their bribe and if you did not pay there you would sit in your Airliner, my Dad said you only had to throw in like 20 bucks or so. To think if the American Airline's Captain would get on the intercom and announce " Sorry folks we forgot to drop $20 in the bucket, but we should be leaving soon the Co-Pilot is taking care of the drop."

The point that I was making without the intent of being racist as it has been called now, that if the Latino population continues to build as fast as it is these days to become the majority that some are predicting, it will over saturate the American way as many see it today, and most likely redefine that way as a reflection of that culture. Yes I think that brings with it much more corruption.

Whew! Good thing there weren't any Latinos running the show over at ENRON.

[FirefightnRick]

I don't think you are a racist FFR, but you need to be careful who you listen to, just because some organization has a nice sounding name, doesn't mean they aren't white supremacists at heart.

I picked out that website from a search on the subject that I did and I saw nothing racist about it at all and I thought some of the solutions sounded good.

Here's the WHO WE ARE STATEMENTS:

Who We Are

The Center for Immigration Studies is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit research organization founded in 1985. It is the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States.

Our Mission

It is the Center's mission to expand the base of public knowledge and understanding of the need for an immigration policy that gives first concern to the broad national interest. The Center is animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted.

Sounded ok to me? If you'll read some of the other information that website counters much of the misinformation(illegal immigration costs the U.S. more than the Iraq war....etc etc etc) going around about it but it doesn't surprise me someone here would find something bad about it.

Are you in agreement or denial that illegal immigration is a problem?

Rick

Edited March 20, 2008 by FirefightnRick