Firefighters: Be Bilingual Or Be Demoted

[FirefightnRick]

What planet am I on?

Rick

http://www.katu.com/news/3634401.html

- By Melica Johnson and KATU.com Web Staff

SALEM, Ore. - Some English-speaking firefighters are losing their jobs because of an Oregon state law that requires them to be bilingual.

The Department of Forestry enacted a law three years ago that requires them to be bilingual, but this year they're actually enforcing it.

2002 was such a devastating wildfire season, contractors were scrambling to find firefighters.

Hispanics often filled their needs on the fire lines.

Follow-Up Story

Lawmakers take notice

Jim Walker of the Department of Forestry said "what we do know is 85 percent of the crew make-up is of Hispanic decent."

But many of the Hispanic fire fighters do not speak English. Walker says the language barrier is a concern.

Those concerns led the state to draft a new rule that all firefighting bosses speak English, and the languages of crew members who don't speak English.

Jaime Pickering, a squad boss overseeing 20 firefighters, says the rule means "job losses for Americans. The white people."

Because of the state's language requirement, Pickering can no longer work as a crew boss and supervise 20 firefighters, he can only manage a squad of four.

Pickering says that "if you have one Spanish guy on the crew, as an English crew boss, you can no longer be a crew boss, you have to step back to a squad boss, which is a demotion."

While the state made the rule change in 2003, it decided to strictly monitor the law this year as Hispanics continue to fill fire lines.

Jim Walker says "our main concern is that they are safe, and they are in a safe environment, and a lot of that deals with communication."

Manuel Franco is a Hispanic contractor for fire crews. He says he thinks the state's rule is necessary for worker safety.

"I think that's good, because that's for safety purpose," Franco says. "If there's a rock rolling down, everybody should understand that."

However, Manuel did say he felt the situation would improve if everyone spoke English. "We're living here. We should speak the language."

Jim Walker ponders the possibility that all fire crew members should be required to speak English, instead of having bilingual crew leaders.

"If it comes down to a safety issue, and it's determined that's the only way we can have people safely on an incident, then yes," Walker said.

Both Oregon state officials and those in the firefighting business say they do not think there are 'that many' illegal immigrant workers in the fire crews.

They say it is more a case of legal workers who do not speak English.

[untbowler]

Oh how I hate this PC BS. Not sure how this can be Constitutional and how in the hell with Oregon Cities be able to hire new firefighters.

Just a load of BS, that puts the public in harms way b/c some PC Bureaucrat wants to make everyone happy.

[KingDL1]

Oh how I hate this PC BS. Not sure how this can be Constitutional and how in the hell with Oregon Cities be able to hire new firefighters.

Just a load of BS, that puts the public in harms way b/c some PC Bureaucrat wants to make everyone happy.

Just another example of how much harm this PC gone wild crap is doing. They need to send all illegal aliens back to whatever country they came from the costs of having them here is beyond staggering yet somehow the media loves to ignore it!

[UNTflyer]

Oh how I hate this PC BS. Not sure how this can be Constitutional

It's absolutely constitutional. Cities can determine their requirements for workers. Now, whether it's a smart move or not is another argument.

[NT03]

In 20 years from now , I'm guessing more Americans ( legal or not ) will speak Spanish as opposed to English.

[KingDL1]

In 20 years from now , I'm guessing more Americans ( legal or not ) will speak Spanish as opposed to English.

And many think our government is corrupt now, can you imagine what it will be like then.

Edited March 19, 2008 by KingDL1

[eulesseagle]

ok, what if you have a "gay-american" on your firefighting crew. does your crew chief have to be gay?

in all seriousness, pick up the dallas or fort worth papers and review the classified and just see how many companies only hire bi-linguel only.

Edited March 19, 2008 by eulesseagle

[NT03]

And many think our government is corrupt now, can you imagine what it will be like then.

Hopefully in 20....make that 25 years I'll be retired and living on a beach out of the country ... living basically with all the same benefits as a US citizen , but not having to pay the same taxes

[Varsity]

And many think our government is corrupt now, can you imagine what it will be like then.

Man you said it there!

Welcome to the post-American America.

[meangreendork]

ok, what if you have a "gay-american" on your firefighting crew. does your crew chief have to be gay?

in all seriousness, pick up the dallas or fort worth papers and review the classified and just see how many companies only hire bi-linguel only.

I don't think it's a language thing...I think the real problem, or at least, the real concern, is the illegal immigration that caused this legislation to be a necessity. Here's how they solve it: have the english speaking firefighters learn spanish and since it's work related, they can get paid while they learn. Meanwhile, the spanish-speaking ones can go learn english and get one step closer to integrating odds are, the illegal immigration problem won't go away. I mean, if they're gonna demand that firefighters learn something more while already hired, the brass can at least foot the bill for the extra requirement and help give an incentive to do it. Learning another language is very difficult and it is harder to do as you get older.

I don't have a problem with anyone speaking their language on US soil. However, I do feel they need to learn the language so they can integrate and at least speak english to those of us that speak it primarily.

I mean, if I went to Japan, I wouldn't expect them to all know fluent english. Some english, yes, but I don't expect to carry on a talk about college football there. I'd make it a point to learn Japanese before I showed up on their soil. I'd like these immigrants to do the same.

Edited March 19, 2008 by meangreendork

[emmitt01]

I wonder what the pay rate differential is. Ladies and gents this is not an immigration issue, it's not a white vs. hispanic issue either. It's a green issue. So long as our country allows employers in ANY field to hire illegal immigrants or recent immigrants who are legal, for a lower wage, the problems will continue. People aren't coming over to America in droves for the apple pie or the statue of liberty...they're coming for the jobs. Make it more costly than beneficial for business owners to hire non-Americans and you won't need to worry about the immigration issues.

[eulesseagle]

meangreendork-

how about you know how to speak english before you get a firefighting job in oregon or elsewhere? now there is a concept. this is still america, i think.

when i was in germany a few years ago i didnt hear, " press one for bulgarian, press two for french, press three for hungarian.

the problem will not go away until we stop catering to illegals.

you want to know about illegals......read the rise and fall of the roman empire.

you want to know about homeland security......talk to a bunch of american indians because they have been fighting terrorism since 1492.

[Eagle1855]

ok, what if you have a "gay-american" on your firefighting crew. does your crew chief have to be gay?

no, but you should know how to speak "gay"

[GreenMachine]

ok, what if you have a "gay-american" on your firefighting crew. does your crew chief have to be gay?

not according to Chuck and Larry

[Censored by Laurie]

And many think our government is corrupt now, can you imagine what it will be like then.

So what you're saying is that Hispanics are by nature more corrupt than white people? Interesting...racist...but still interesting.

I think its about time that many of you come to terms with the changing demographics of our country...I mean, I suppose we could greet minority group influx like many European countries have and shave our heads and strap on our combat boots while listening to Oi! (and some of you...I'm not saying...I'm just saying). But hey, we're not Europe...we're the greatest nation in the world, right? (Huh...maybe thats why so many people want to live and work here...crazy)

I also hate to break it to many of you, but deporting 10-14 million people just won't happen.

when i was in germany a few years ago i didnt hear, " press one for bulgarian, press two for french, press three for hungarian.

No...most Europeans dont need a translator button because they are already multi-lingual.

[GreenMachine]

No...most Europeans dont need a translator button because they are already multi-lingual.

True but this is by their choice, not their govt's.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

True but this is by their choice, not their govt's.

If I'm not mistaken, schools in most European countries require kids to learn at least one second language, which would indirectly be the government.

Regardless, its more of a necessity because of the dozen or so different languages widely used in Europe as opposed to the three used in North America.

I wonder if the European Union will ever adopt a uniform language.

Edited March 19, 2008 by BeanCounterGrad'03

[Bryan316]

"I think that's good, because that's for safety purpose," Franco says. "If there's a rock rolling down, everybody should understand that."

Seriously? I mean, I don't speak Japanese, but if I'm in Japan and everyone around me starts looking up, screaming, and then running the other way, I'd start running from Godzilla, too.

[KRAM1]

Can anyone spell "stupid" idea???????? Just what is this great nation of ours starting to become?????? This is the top of the heap in PC'ness gone way too far!

Habla English??????? Why should I? It's only the good ole PC US of A. Let's make any language we feel like it the "official" language...the citizens don't care, obviously!

I am going to Estonia this summer...I am sure all the official governemnet documents are in English so I can read them and I am sure all the police and fire officials speak English.

If this wasn't so true, I would laugh...as it is...I think I will throw up!

[Eagle1855]

Seriously? I mean, I don't speak Japanese, but if I'm in Japan and everyone around me starts looking up, screaming, and then running the other way, I'd start running from Godzilla, too.

I think you mean Godzirra...

[meangreendork]

meangreendork-

how about you know how to speak english before you get a firefighting job in oregon or elsewhere? now there is a concept. this is still america, i think.

when i was in germany a few years ago i didnt hear, " press one for bulgarian, press two for french, press three for hungarian.

the problem will not go away until we stop catering to illegals.

you want to know about illegals......read the rise and fall of the roman empire.

you want to know about homeland security......talk to a bunch of american indians because they have been fighting terrorism since 1492.

It's not that easy. For you and I, if we run off to Europe somewhere, we can probably take 6 months out ahead of time and find a tutor and be French/German/whatever fluent (or at least proficient) before we go. You, myself, and just about every GMG.com member can do this. Odds are, the average immigrant can't do that.

I don't think there's really a way to keep illegal immigrants out of the US short of armed guards on the border. The real solution to this is serious, effective reforms in Mexico, which short of overrunning the border with American troops, probably isn't going to happen, not without the Mexican government getting their own crap together. That said, you can't realistically expect immigrants to know english before they get here...simply because they probably don't have the money. I figure that if they're going to be here, we can at least get them integrated, tax-paying, voting, contributing, and law-abiding.

Besides, the Roman Empire really didn't fall because of immigrants. It's how they treated their lower-class citizens and their conquered as they stretched their military and government very, very thin over an area that would be difficult to centrally control even with today's technology. I don't even know why you brought Native Americans into this...they were swept out by force, and while the initial European immigrants weren't exactly legal when they came over, you and I wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

Also, if I were from Russia and saw some giant monster dropping bugs off its back into the middle of New York, I figure common sense would tell me to run like F***.

[GreenMachine]

we have illegal immigrants from all different countries, why does everyone always assume they are hispanic? should we all learn mandarin chinese for all the oriental illegals, or how about french for all the french illegals. Next they are going to want us to learn oklahoman for all the okie illegals.

[forevereagle]

Next they are going to want us to learn oklahoman for all the okie illegals.

That's just impossible. No one can understand what they are saying.

[KingDL1]

So what you're saying is that Hispanics are by nature more corrupt than white people? Interesting...racist...but still interesting.

What are you saying, do you have racism on the brain or are you trying to stir the pot?

American Culture tends to be nowhere near as corrupt as our neighbors to the south and you can take your pick of countries all the way the south most tip of South America. That culture comes with most illegal aliens coming in from the south who don't seem to mind breaking the law in the first place.

There is talk and then there is reality

[Censored by Laurie]

Can anyone spell "stupid" idea????????

You just did

Just what is this great nation of ours starting to become?????? This is the top of the heap in PC'ness gone way too far!

Its not really starting anything...there has been a gradual, yet steady shift in the demographic for some time. Its only a hot-button issue now because our government needed something to divert attention away from their major cluster f in the Middle East...also see gay marriage.

Habla English??????? Why should I? It's only the good ole PC US of A. Let's make any language we feel like it the "official" language...the citizens don't care, obviously!

This doesn't really have anything to do with political correctness...it has to do with facing the reality of the situation. 85% of their fire-fighters are Hispanic...and from what I understand of firefighting...it can be dangerous...meaning efficient communication can be the difference between life and death. While I while may not agree with the manner in which Oregon seems to be going about things...it is one way to a practical end.

I am going to Estonia this summer...I am sure all the official governemnet documents are in English so I can read them and I am sure all the police and fire officials speak English.

No...probably not all of them...maybe just 85%.

If this wasn't so true, I would laugh...as it is...I think I will throw up!

You should. And if you do it in a public place...and maybe get a little on the floor or brim...leave it...I'm sure there will be an illegal ready and willing to clean it up for you