Horned Frogs And Mustangs

[Will to Win]

Since I moved to Denton from Nachitoches LA. (NSU transfer) in 2001, I have never read about proposed football

games that involved TCU. Why is SMU the only DFW D-1 school we consider playing? Is there a beef

between UNT & TCU that I don't know about?

Can anyone advise on why we don't consider playing TCU?

[Guest 97and03]

Since I moved to Denton from Nachitoches LA. (NSU transfer) in 2001, I have never read about proposed football

games that involved TCU. Why is SMU the only DFW D-1 school we consider playing? Is there a beef

between UNT & TCU that I don't know about?

Can anyone advise on why we don't consider playing TCU?

We did have a home and home series with them fairly recently. Good crowd came up from Ft Worth (there was a LOT of purple in the stands). I went to the one in Ft Worth. No so much green in the stands. I would imagine there is more interest in SMU because they are deemed to be pretty beatable, whereas TCU often isn't much different that playing a Big 12 team.

I think most here would be interested in playing both TCU and SMU annually. It would be good for the DFW area for all the teams to play each other.

Another recent semi-local series that did well was Baylor. I believe we are next playing them in 2009 in Denton.

Edited March 18, 2008 by 97and03

[ShopMeanGreen]

I would favor playing TCU over SMU anyday. We played them well a few years ago, just before they really tuned up. I would rather play TCUand leave SMU behind. NT will soon be more in tune with TCU than SMU IMHO.

[UNTFan23]

TCU is afraid to schedule us.

[TeachinTodd]

Football aside, it seems many on this board want to play SMU out of a STRONG dislike for the university -kind of like shutting them up. However, I ahve never once sensed that animosity towards TCU.

[trud1966]

Football aside, it seems many on this board want to play SMU out of a STRONG dislike for the university -kind of like shutting them up. However, I ahve never once sensed that animosity towards TCU.

No, there isnt any type of animosity when we play TCU and vice-versa. I think we give each other harmless ribbing, but thats about it. SMU is different...I hate to cry "well they started it", but I'm going to. They're rude and obnoxious. Constantly going on and on about how "superior" their program is, and they shouldnt have to play such a "small program" as UNT. God if I have to hear that crap one more time. Yeah, I get it, they won a national championship. 25 freaking years ago, by CHEATING. This isnt just MY opinion either, because the proof is they're just as rude and disrespectful to TCU.

As much as it I do believe it helps the metro area to play them, I say give them their request. It wouldnt hurt my feelings if we never played them again.

[ADLER]

Yeah, I get it, they won a national championship. 25 freaking years ago, by CHEATING.

SMU did not win a national championship 25 years ago. Having some insolvent former polling organization name your team as national champions has about as much merit as having it written in a bathroom stall. About the only history that exists of them in that insignificant poll is the Wikipedia entry that was surely written by the same SMU dumb-ass that wrote the Wikipedia reference to the Ford Mustang being named after the SMU team.

There was a reason that the 1982 team wasn't in contention for a national championship; they were caught for repeadly violating NCAA rules. The violations were so severe and widespread that every revenue sport at SMU eventually earned the NCAA Death Penalty, but the NCAA took pity on the jackasses and only imposed a one year ban on football.

That the 1982 team was 'honored' as national champions by SMU this past season was an insult by Steve Orsini to every person that is a fan of collegiate sports.

[UNTLifer]

I think our last game with TCU was in 2002 in Fort Worth and we should have beaten them. On TCU's post-game show, one of their coaches said they wouldn't schedule us again. Of course, our program took a downturn a couple of years after that and they might have reconsidered, but I don't see them scheduling us while TD is coaching.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I know dozens of SMU alums and they are no more disrespectful of UNT than any other ex-Southwest Conference school; in fact, one has his kids and another his grandkids going to North Texas and each thinks that they are getting a good education.

I won't deny that there are at least a half-dozen on their web site that are as acerbic toward North Texas as any fans anywhere. So we responded in kind. We were especially vocal about their being too gutless to play us (even though we had played them more than anyone else (except New Mexico State). It was culminated by our coach, Matt Simon, challenging them by saying that he would play them anytime on a "Safeway parking lot." A few years later, we wanted their help when we were trying to get into CUSA and they instead supported their conference mate at the time, Louisiana Tech (with some very acerbic fans also). After all of our bad-mouthing them we wondered why they wouldn't then support us.

SMU has won only one national football championship. That was 72 years ago (1935), not when they received the death penalty. At the time, everyone in the Southwest Conference was cheating but SMU took it to a higher level. They blatantly paid players, bought them cars, etc. and got caught. The NCAA killed their program for a year and they voluntarily stayed out of football the year following. No one has paid a more severe penalty and it's doubtful that anyone else ever will. That was 25 years ago before nearly all of their current students were born. We still keep bringing it up.

TCU, on the other hand, is just as arrogant toward us but at least they take the high road. They don't schedule us, say little, and continue on their merry way. We apparently prefer being ignored. Until the three game series beginning in 1999, TCU hadn't played us since the 1930s. We were cannon fodder for their first or second game (same with SMU).

The three major colleges in the area should play each other EVERY year. There should be a traveling trophy that the winner keeps for a year. It would be good for college football and the Metroplex but I'm afraid hell will freeze over before that ever happens. We'll never be in the same conference because TCU won't lower itself. They'll continue to ignore us as they have all but three of the last 70+ years.

Edited March 18, 2008 by GrayEagleOne

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I know dozens of SMU alums and they are no more disrespectful of UNT than any other ex-Southwest Conference school; in fact, one has his kids and another his grandkids going to North Texas and each thinks that they are getting a good education.

I won't deny that there are at least a half-dozen on their web site that are as acerbic toward North Texas as any fans anywhere. So we responded in kind. We were especially vocal about their being too gutless to play us (even though we had played them more than anyone else (except New Mexico State). It was culminated by our coach, Matt Simon, challenging them by saying that he would play them anytime on a "Safeway parking lot." A few years later, we wanted their help when we were trying to get into CUSA and they instead supported their conference mate at the time, Louisiana Tech (with some very acerbic fans also). After all of our bad-mouthing them we wondered why they wouldn't then support us.

SMU has won only one national football championship. That was 72 years ago (1935), not when they received the death penalty. At the time, everyone in the Southwest Conference was cheating but SMU took it to a higher level. They blatantly paid players, bought them cars, etc. and got caught. The NCAA killed their program for a year and they voluntarily stayed out of football the year following. No one has paid a more severe penalty and it's doubtful that anyone else ever will. That was 25 years ago before nearly all of their current students were born. We still keep bringing it up.

TCU, on the other hand, is just as arrogant toward us but at least they take the high road. They don't schedule us, say little, and continue on their merry way. We apparently prefer being ignored. Until the three game series beginning in 1999, TCU hadn't played us since the 1930s. We were cannon fodder for their first or second game (same with SMU).

The three major colleges in the area should play each other EVERY year. There should be a traveling trophy that the winner keeps for a year. It would be good for college football and the Metroplex but I'm afraid hell will freeze over before that ever happens. We'll never be in the same conference because TCU won't lower itself. They'll continue to ignore us as they have all but three of the last 70+ years.

---

---I guess we old ones will have to die off before conditions normalize (if then) . A think most other universities in Texas have a similiar image of SMU. Ours is a bit more extreme because of their constant disrepect of us in articles in the DMN and other places. I don't resent any university's success (some here seem to) but I do resent their lack of respect for NT and others. TCU and their alums don't constantly try to put us down (we all have a few exceptions)..

--We should play each other ( TCU, SMU, UTA, UNT ) in football and basketball somewhat regularly. Basketball would make good mid-week games because of the closeness and both groups of fans can attend without much difficulty..

TCU won't lower itself???? How about us raising ourselves up.. [don't understand that attitude]

No SWC team played us from 1947 until 1974 (SMU) except Arkansas. We did play TxTech and Houston some during that period but they were not SWC members when they played. us. TCU wasn't doing anything different than the rest of them were.

Edited March 18, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[NTPhiKap99]

TCU is afraid to schedule us.

I love that 5 years ago we loved TCU and SMU was afraid of us. Now that we've played SMU it's TCU thats afraid.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I love that 5 years ago we loved TCU and SMU was afraid of us. Now that we've played SMU it's TCU thats afraid.

--There is some truth to the fact that they fear if they lose to us that it could hurt them... We recruit in the same area and are in the same media market. That is what they fear..... that is the reason that they both voted against admitting us to the SWC years ago. Only those two and Baylor voted against us... the three closest universities... they did want a large state university in their neighborhood competing with them.

Edited March 18, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[NTPhiKap99]

We're talking about two teams that although mid majors now still have a long nationally known tradition that we just don't have. Until we get some real national attention they really have no reason to play us except for the small attendance boast from the game. Beating us doesn't prove anything and losing to us is a disaster. I'd love to play at least one if not both these teams every year and if we start to winning some games and increasing our national prestige it will give them the incentive to schedule us more often.

[Superfrog]

TCU, on the other hand, is just as arrogant toward us but at least they take the high road. They don't schedule us, say little, and continue on their merry way. We apparently prefer being ignored. Until the three game series beginning in 1999, TCU hadn't played us since the 1930s. We were cannon fodder for their first or second game (same with SMU).

The three major colleges in the area should play each other EVERY year. There should be a traveling trophy that the winner keeps for a year. It would be good for college football and the Metroplex but I'm afraid hell will freeze over before that ever happens. We'll never be in the same conference because TCU won't lower itself. They'll continue to ignore us as they have all but three of the last 70+ years.

Date Opponent (record) Result Score Site

9/21/2002 vs. North Texas (8-5) W 16 10

9/1/2001 @ North Texas (5-7) W 19 5

11/13/1999 vs. North Texas (2-9) W 27 3

10/17/1987 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 19 10

10/18/1986 vs. North Texas (non-IA) L 20 24

10/19/1985 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 14 10

10/20/1984 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 34 3

9/28/1935 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 28 11

9/29/1934 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 27 0

9/30/1933 @ North Texas (non-IA) W 13 0

9/17/1932 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 14 2

9/19/1931 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 33 6

9/20/1930 @ North Texas (non-IA) W 47 0

11/2/1929 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 25 0

10/4/1919 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 14 6

11/2/1918 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 39 0

9/26/1914 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 40 0

We already play SMU every year and that is not going to change. The fact that both UNT and SMU are non-bcs schools is probably the biggest factor as to why TCU, SMU and UNT don't play each other every year. This is unfortunate, but the reality is that we have to schedule BCS schools to make up for our preceived "weak" conference. Our OOC scheduling philisophy is

1. SMU

2. Gimme

3. 50/50

4. Underdog

For instance, this year its

SMU

SFA

Stanford

OU

So, basically it leaves us one OOC game per year for teams from non-bcs conferences. TCU doesn't want to waste opportunites playing national BCS teams by scheduling two local non-bcs rivalry games a year. It's unfortunate what three little letters (BCS) can do to the reputation of a team and conference.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Superfrog

[Quoner]

Date Opponent (record) Result Score Site

9/21/2002 vs. North Texas (8-5) W 16 10

9/1/2001 @ North Texas (5-7) W 19 5

11/13/1999 vs. North Texas (2-9) W 27 3

10/17/1987 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 19 10

10/18/1986 vs. North Texas (non-IA) L 20 24

10/19/1985 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 14 10

10/20/1984 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 34 3

9/28/1935 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 28 11

9/29/1934 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 27 0

9/30/1933 @ North Texas (non-IA) W 13 0

9/17/1932 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 14 2

9/19/1931 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 33 6

9/20/1930 @ North Texas (non-IA) W 47 0

11/2/1929 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 25 0

10/4/1919 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 14 6

11/2/1918 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 39 0

9/26/1914 vs. North Texas (non-IA) W 40 0

We already play SMU every year and that is not going to change. The fact that both UNT and SMU are non-bcs schools is probably the biggest factor as to why TCU, SMU and UNT don't play each other every year. This is unfortunate, but the reality is that we have to schedule BCS schools to make up for our preceived "weak" conference. Our OOC scheduling philisophy is

1. SMU

2. Gimme

3. 50/50

4. Underdog

For instance, this year its

SMU

SFA

Stanford

OU

So, basically it leaves us one OOC game per year for teams from non-bcs conferences. TCU doesn't want to waste opportunites playing national BCS teams by scheduling two local non-bcs rivalry games a year. It's unfortunate what three little letters (BCS) can do to the reputation of a team and conference.

Man, you guys were right. Those Frogs are arrogant AND dismissive.

Seriously, thanks for stopping by, Superfrog.

[FirefightnRick]

1984...@TCU 34--NT 3

1985...@TCU 14--NT 10

1986...@NT 24--TCU 20

1987...@TCU 19--NT 10

1999...@TCU 27--NT 3

2001...TCU 19 @ NT 5

2002...@TCU 16--NT 10

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

Hey SuperFrog,

I haven't checked, but is there anything posted today over on your board about the dumbass that flipped momma's Cadilac SLS in the Tri Delt parking lot around 3:30 this morning? There should be something about it in the campus paper in the next day or two. Pretty funny listening to the campus PD trying to get him to explain how in hell he did it? There's all these parked cars right in front of the TD door, then there's one on it's roof. As we got available I heard the kid simply say..."Just too much gas!!!". Pretty funny.

Rick

Edited March 18, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[Superfrog]

Man, you guys were right. Those Frogs are arrogant AND dismissive.

Seriously, thanks for stopping by, Superfrog.

Most in Fort Worth are hoping for an SMU turn around with June Jones as the rivalry as been lacking a spark the last 8 years. There have been plenty of times when I wished we would drop the rivalry (especially 2005) and pick up a game with UNT. If June Jones doesn't turn SMU around, I honestly feel that the TCU administration might consider dropping the rivalry. It's not like they bring a ton of fans to Fort Worth (nor did Rice, Houston, Tulane or Tulsa). That is one of the reasons we left for the MWC. Yes, there are regional rivalries, but the fan apathy at those schools is pathetic. Also, stability was another factor. A CUSA-W division consisting of 5 private schools is destined for failure (see SWC). We thought the MWC was more stable for the long run with schools like BYU and Utah being the anchors.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Superfrog

[Superfrog]

Hey SuperFrog,

I haven't checked, but is there anything posted today over on your board about the dumbass that flipped momma's Cadilac SLS in the Tri Delt parking lost around 3:30 this morning? There should be something about it in the campus paper in the next day or two. Pretty funny listening to the campus PD trying to get him to explain how in hell it pulled it off. There's all these parked cars right in front of the TD door, then there's one on it's roof. As we got available I heard the kid simply say..."Just too much gas!!!". Pretty funny.

Rick

I haven't heard anything about it. That's some serious front door service for dropping off a date.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

--There is some truth to the fact that they fear if they lose to us that it could hurt them... We recruit in the same area and are in the same media market.

Yeah but that can go either way.

[jimmyjames_99]

The fact that both UNT and SMU are non-bcs schools is probably the biggest factor as to why TCU, SMU and UNT don't play each other every year...It's unfortunate what three little letters (BCS) can do to the reputation of a team and conference.

Your argument is flawed, UNT is a BCS team.

Prior to the 1998 football regular season, the FedEx Orange, Nokia Sugar, Rose and Tostitos Fiesta Bowls joined with the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big 12, Big Ten, Pacific-10 and Southeastern Conferences and the University of Notre Dame to form the Bowl Championship Series (BCS). In 2004, Conference USA, Sun Belt, Mid-American, Mountain West and Western Athletic conferences joined the BCS.

UNT, and SMU for that matter, get the same automatic qualification rules applied to it as TCU does when it comes to being selected for a bowl game.

[Guest 97and03]

Your argument is flawed, UNT is a BCS team.

Prior to the 1998 football regular season, the FedEx Orange, Nokia Sugar, Rose and Tostitos Fiesta Bowls joined with the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big 12, Big Ten, Pacific-10 and Southeastern Conferences and the University of Notre Dame to form the Bowl Championship Series (BCS). In 2004, Conference USA, Sun Belt, Mid-American, Mountain West and Western Athletic conferences joined the BCS.

UNT, and SMU for that matter, get the same automatic qualification rules applied to it as TCU does when it comes to being selected for a bowl game.

I get what you are saying and technically you are correct. But you know what the man was referring to.

[Cowtown]

SMU is a parasite.

I dont think we will see a football series w. TCU anytime soon, but we must realize where the frogs are coming from. It is the same reasoning why we dont schedule McNeese St or TX St.

What is most frustrating to me is basketball, there is no reason why we couldnt have a 4 team tourney every year among metroplex teams.

Most in Fort Worth are hoping for an SMU turn around with June Jones as the rivalry as been lacking a spark the last 8 years. There have been plenty of times when I wished we would drop the rivalry (especially 2005) and pick up a game with UNT. If June Jones doesn't turn SMU around, I honestly feel that the TCU administration might consider dropping the rivalry. It's not like they bring a ton of fans to Fort Worth (nor did Rice, Houston, Tulane or Tulsa). That is one of the reasons we left for the MWC. Yes, there are regional rivalries, but the fan apathy at those schools is pathetic. Also, stability was another factor. A CUSA-W division consisting of 5 private schools is destined for failure (see SWC). We thought the MWC was more stable for the long run with schools like BYU and Utah being the anchors.

[NT80]

SMU is a parasite.

I dont think we will see a football series w. TCU anytime soon, but we must realize where the frogs are coming from. It is the same reasoning why we dont schedule McNeese St or TX St.

What is most frustrating to me is basketball, there is no reason why we couldnt have a 4 team tourney every year among metroplex teams.

There is a (Highland Park) attitude around SMUt that makes it too easy to hate them. TCU fans for the most part have never had that superiority complex.

[greenminer]

Your argument is flawed, UNT is a BCS team.

Prior to the 1998 football regular season, the FedEx Orange, Nokia Sugar, Rose and Tostitos Fiesta Bowls joined with the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big 12, Big Ten, Pacific-10 and Southeastern Conferences and the University of Notre Dame to form the Bowl Championship Series (BCS). In 2004, Conference USA, Sun Belt, Mid-American, Mountain West and Western Athletic conferences joined the BCS.

UNT, and SMU for that matter, get the same automatic qualification rules applied to it as TCU does when it comes to being selected for a bowl game.

His statement is flawed, but I think his point still stands.

I can't help but wonder if SMU is on their last straw with TCU. If the JJ experiment fails and Dodge gets us going into high gear I think TCU will be forced to re-consider us as their regular regional game.

Correction, SuperFrog: CUSA-W = 4 privates. THUS YOUR FAILURE ARGUMENT IS FLAWED /sarcsasm