Drake Has Torn Ligaments

[Harry]

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/...5.c4887225.html

[flyeater]

Is his mother alleging some screw-up? A sprained ankle (at least grade 2 and above) IS torned ligaments/tendons. Everything you read about ankle sprains/strains sez rest is the first prescribed treatment, not surgery as this (Vito?) seems to be implying. It's my understanding that Wooden has the same thing right now, with the options being:

1) Rest, don't play

2) Play, since you can't do any more damage

3) Surgery, don't play

If Drake tried to heal with rest (as Dodge said) and it didn't work, what's the "misdiagnosis" I've seen broached by some folks? Seriously, what am I missing?

[emmitt01]

Is his mother alleging some screw-up? A sprained ankle (at least grade 2 and above) IS torned ligaments/tendons. Everything you read about ankle sprains/strains sez rest is the first prescribed treatment, not surgery as this (Vito?) seems to be implying. It's my understanding that Wooden has the same thing right now, with the options being:

1) Rest, don't play

2) Play, since you can't do any more damage

3) Surgery, don't play

If Drake tried to heal with rest (as Dodge said) and it didn't work, what's the "misdiagnosis" I've seen broached by some folks? Seriously, what am I missing?

Shhhhhh...don't question the experts. They have "sources".

[GreenBat]

J. J. Johnson is from Plano West, not Plano Senior High.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GreenBat

[flyeater]

Shhhhhh...don't question the experts. They have "sources".

Well, unless Kelvin Drake's mom went to medical school, I'll have to question that "source."

[PHSCoach]

I would ask why it took 4 months to get a MRI

[emmitt01]

Well, unless Kelvin Drake's mom went to medical school, I'll have to question that "source."

No, not that source...the sources that some on this board claim to have.

[UNTLifer]

Is his mother alleging some screw-up? A sprained ankle (at least grade 2 and above) IS torned ligaments/tendons. Everything you read about ankle sprains/strains sez rest is the first prescribed treatment, not surgery as this (Vito?) seems to be implying. It's my understanding that Wooden has the same thing right now, with the options being:

1) Rest, don't play

2) Play, since you can't do any more damage

3) Surgery, don't play

If Drake tried to heal with rest (as Dodge said) and it didn't work, what's the "misdiagnosis" I've seen broached by some folks? Seriously, what am I missing?

I wonder the same.

Information of Injuries

[adman]

I wonder the same.

Information of Injuries

From the above mentioned website: Even a complete ligament tear can heal without surgical repair if it is immobilized appropriately.

[nautique]

Well, unless Kelvin Drake's mom went to medical school, I'll have to question that "source."

Kelvin's mom is entitled to whatever opinion she wants to have, after all it is her son.

I guess Kelvin is not a a viable and worthly enough source. (to the powers at be on this thread)

No MRI, you have to be kidding me. Maybe they were absent the day they taught that at medical school.

[Eagle1855]

From the above mentioned website: Even a complete ligament tear can heal without surgical repair if it is immobilized appropriately.

maybe, maybe not. depends on the tear. I had a ligament tear in my shoulder that would never have healed without surgery, even though it was very minor. Some ligaments will calcify and not require surgery, but you're talking about a pretty long process. He would be better off just having the surgery which will provide a 100% fix.

Also, according to my doctor, you can't always be certain there is a ligament tear present with an MRI. I'm not sure why they wouldn't do an MRI right off the bat. Perhaps it was a financial issue. No idea.

Additionally, this had turned into a really stupid argument. Nautique got it right. Whether or not you like the way in which he broke the "news" doesn't affect the outcome... he was right.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Eagle1855

[MeanGreen61]

Is his mother alleging some screw-up? A sprained ankle (at least grade 2 and above) IS torned ligaments/tendons. Everything you read about ankle sprains/strains sez rest is the first prescribed treatment, not surgery as this (Vito?) seems to be implying. It's my understanding that Wooden has the same thing right now, with the options being:

1) Rest, don't play

2) Play, since you can't do any more damage

3) Surgery, don't play

If Drake tried to heal with rest (as Dodge said) and it didn't work, what's the "misdiagnosis" I've seen broached by some folks? Seriously, what am I missing?

North Texas center Kelvin Drake will undergo surgery to repair torn tendons in his ankle today, his mother Jeanetta Jones confirmed Thursday.

“They thought it was a sprained ankle,” Jones said. “Kelvin had an MRI earlier this week. They decided he needed surgery then.”

His mother made a simple statement, not any type of allegation.

[adman]

maybe, maybe not. depends on the tear. I had a ligament tear in my shoulder that would never have healed without surgery, even though it was very minor. Some ligaments will calcify and not require surgery, but you're talking about a pretty long process. He would be better off just having the surgery which will provide a 100% fix.

Also, according to my doctor, you can't always be certain there is a ligament tear present with an MRI. I'm not sure why they wouldn't do an MRI right off the bat. Perhaps it was a financial issue. No idea.

Hence the word "can" as opposed to "will."

[flyeater]

Again, ankle sprain and torn ankle ligaments/tendons are the same thing. When the MRI was given isn't a factor. They knew he had a sprained ankle, and the first treatment is rest (MRI or no MRI). I'm not sure where it says this was his first MRI (if I'm wrong there, sue me). If it was the first MRI, it was to determine if further rest would or wouldn't work, not to unearth some new, mystery diagnosis. In this case, rest wasn't sufficient, so the next course of action is surgery. An MRI in October would have revealed the same thing.

What I'm theorizing here is that doctors estimated he'd have as good a chance to make spring ball with rest/immobilization as he would have with surgery. It's guesswork, but you don't jump into surgery first. That's last resort for anyone, regardless of when/if MRI was given. Dodge/UNT isn't just going to cut on someone for the sake of making sure they get to spring practice -- counter to apparent expectations around here.

I don't mean to give his mom a hard time, but I just don't know what to make of her comments.

Edited February 15, 2008 by flyeater

[Eagle1855]

Hence the word "can" as opposed to "will."

thanks, I was merely expounding upon what you said

Edited February 15, 2008 by Eagle1855

[flyeater]

bottom line, I guess, is I want to know what the hell Vito meant by this:

"There is a pretty interesting story behind how Drake wound up having surgery this far after the season for an injury that occurred on Oct. 27. For the complete story, see tomorrow's edition of the Denton Record-Chronicle."

What's the interesting story?? A "misdiagnosis" as poster(s) led us to believe? Seems to me the DRC set out to uncover Watergate with regard to a starting center's sprained ankle and ended up with jack squat.

[emmitt01]

bottom line, I guess, is I want to know what the hell Vito meant by this:

"There is a pretty interesting story behind how Drake wound up having surgery this far after the season for an injury that occurred on Oct. 27. For the complete story, see tomorrow's edition of the Denton Record-Chronicle."

What's the interesting story?? A "misdiagnosis" as poster(s) led us to believe? Seems to me the DRC set out to uncover Watergate with regard to a starting center's sprained ankle and ended up with jack squat.

Precisely. Whether it was Drake's mom, Vito, or our own cloak and dagger specialist floatie, it's all the same cry of wolf.

[GreenAlums]

bottom line, I guess, is I want to know what the hell Vito meant by this:

"There is a pretty interesting story behind how Drake wound up having surgery this far after the season for an injury that occurred on Oct. 27. For the complete story, see tomorrow's edition of the Denton Record-Chronicle."

What's the interesting story?? A "misdiagnosis" as poster(s) led us to believe? Seems to me the DRC set out to uncover Watergate with regard to a starting center's sprained ankle and ended up with jack squat.

One of the most dangerous things I've seen happen over and over is when a non-physcian, especially a reporter has any incling of an opinion on diagnosis versus misdiagnosed in medicine. Frankly, it makes me crazy, ok, crazi--er. Then to add the fairly recent privacy and confidentiality laws the government fed us, everybody should leave this alone, especially the media!!!

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

One other thing about the article. Glass was not the immediate backup to Drake last year; I believe that Chad Rose. the starter in 2006, was. Glass did not appear in a game last year according to records. This is not to say that Glass won't see a lot of playing time in the spring game/scrimmages but when Drake went down with the injury last year, Rose moved over to snap. Since Drake and Rose will not be available this spring and Leppo has not enrolled, the only available experienced centers are Johnson and Glass. It stands to reason that those two will get the snaps at the spring game (and practices and scrimmages).

[FirefightnRick]

Additionally, this had turned into a really stupid argument. Nautique got it right. Whether or not you like the way in which he broke the "news" doesn't affect the outcome... he was right.

There has been a lot of information over the years that many here are privy to(personal injuries, homesickness, grades, incidents with the local PD etc..) that I wouldn't want on a public message board out of respect to our program and for the sake of my university. If eventually it gets to the point that it's public information(when the press reports it), then I still sometimes don't care to elaborate about it.

Timmy Mac was a very, very good friend to North Texas.

Rick

Edited February 16, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[eulessismore]

I think that anyone providing, or encouraging others to provide health care information about any individual on a public forum such as this should be aware that there are federal and state laws that apply to the disclosure of such information, and the penalty for illegal disclosures of such information can be severe. The following link is a SUMMARY of the federal HIPAA act, which, as far as I can tell, preempts state law in most case, with exceptions, notably for for minors, for which Texas state law applies. I know of one recruit who will only be 17 when next season starts, so one should be aware of federal AND state laws (as well as case law and opinions by the Texas Office of the Attorney General) concerning medical records privacy in order to avoid potential liability for illegal medical records disclosures. Of course, common sense might also guide someone considering specualating, or encouraging others to speculate about an individual's medical condition or other information which might be considered "private" or otherwise sensitive. If nothing else, consider the well being of the individual, his or her family, and others who may suffer anxiety from inappropriate information disclosures. Please remember the considerable stresses placed on the families of many college students due to the unfortunate tragedies occurring within only the last year.

Summary of Federal Medical Records Privacy Law (HIPAA)

Edited February 16, 2008 by eulessismore

[Dodge2007]

That is some heavy duty language and info for a football post.

[GreenAlums]

That is some heavy duty language and info for a football post.

Yep, and eulessismore was able to drag out what I said in one sentence earlier in the post, although good information that I really think needs to be understood.

[flyeater]

Most (nearly all) college athletes sign waivers to the HIPPA protection, thereby allowing coaches, staff, medical folks, media-relations folks, etc. to release their health/injury status, especially if the cause was football related. Athletes can choose not to sign, but it's rare. Some coaches choose to keep it confidential to keep reporters in check or opposing coaches in the dark. Franchione only released season-ending injuries at A$M.

My guess is most schools (if not the coaches) want to be open about injuries, because state-funded health insurance is paying for a lot of those ACLs, ankles, shoulders, etc.

[eulessismore]

Most (nearly all) college athletes sign waivers to the HIPPA protection, thereby allowing coaches, staff, medical folks, media-relations folks, etc. to release their health/injury status, especially if the cause was football related. Athletes can choose not to sign, but it's rare. Some coaches choose to keep it confidential to keep reporters in check or opposing coaches in the dark. Franchione only released season-ending injuries at A$M.

My guess is most schools (if not the coaches) want to be open about injuries, because state-funded health insurance is paying for a lot of those ACLs, ankles, shoulders, etc.

I wasn't saying that there are no exceptions to HIPPA protection, but that those posting in regards to injuries on such forums as these should be aware that there may be legal limitations on such information. It would certainly be understandable if those maintaining public forums chose to delete or lock threads due to irresponsible posting about medical conditions. Again, I think that common sense could be used to call into question whether the original poster of the original thread on this matter was behaving responsibly by inviting speculation about "a big time player" being injured. Parents of players (many of whom may think their child is "big time") read this board, and unless players have more perfect communication with parents than I suspect, such speculation might lead to cause unnecessary anxiety to such parents. Regarding Franchione, I don't think his actions (if you're referring to his private newsletter listing player injuries) helped his career any; it seemed that the A&M administration was truly furious with him.

Edited February 17, 2008 by eulessismore