Roger Clemens Is Effin Ridiculous

[UNT_92_Fan]

Anyone watching these congressional hearings? I know this a dead horse topic and we all basically agree that most if not all baseball players have taken something but this is just funny. Clemens looks like a 5 year old who just got caught by his parents doing something bad and trying to come up with the right words to make mommy and daddy LESS mad than they should be. Clemens keeps referring to being hurt by these statements the congress is making.

[KRAM1]

Just one more reason to love professional baseball...NOT! Baseball at the HS and college level is as good as it gets, and folks who read this board often probably know where I stand on the baseball thing....Let me ask a serious question, however...WHY IN THE SAM HILL IS CONGRESS INVOLVED IN THIS BB MESS ANYWAY?????? From where I sit, Congress has quite a few OTHER more pressing issues than a bunch of grown men (physically grown, the jury is out on just how many have mentally grown up) shooting themselves up with HGH and 'roids.

Let's get on with the business of governing this nation...let's leave the drup stuff to the commissioner, players, etc., etc. Give this a rest...Roger C. and the rest of them are just making themselves and pro baseball in general look pretty silly!

[FirefightnRick]

I was going to start a thread on this myself. I don't have any kids at the house today and have been able to sit and watch this entire meeting with the subcommittee. If your not watching, you should. More worm-squirming than a bait shop and Clemens is doing the most of it. One would get the impression that he's lying through his teeth on all of this? He allowed Mcnamee to inject his WIFE with HGH, in his own bedroom, yet he's had none of it himself? Wow! Freaking crazy stuff being admitted to. I doubt though that any federal prosicutor will be able to get a conviction of lying under oath, even with positive DNA results from the needle and gauze evidence simply because Clemen's attorneys can point to previous lies by Mcnamee. But that doesn't mean Clemons is telling the truth. What's funny is the Clemens supporters who have been obvious in their questioning, keeps point to Mcnamee's previous lies, then painting a picture that he's lying today, to which he's already admitted to about and today admits he's now telling the truth. He's come clean about his previous lies, and his testimony has been backed up by Pettit and Knoblauch.

Clemens has destroyed his reputation by agreeing to take part in this today. He had better hope a Fed prosicutor doesn't get a burr under his saddle and pursue it.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

Let me ask a serious question, however...WHY IN THE SAM HILL IS CONGRESS INVOLVED IN THIS BB MESS ANYWAY??????

The chair person stated in the beginning that he was going to cancel the hearing but that Clemens and his attorneys insisted on getting their opportunity to defend themselves, and it's backfired, miserably. He's coming off as a bald-faced lyer and it's getting worse by the minute.

Rick

[Quoner]

Just one more reason to love professional baseball...NOT! Baseball at the HS and college level is as good as it gets, and folks who read this board often probably know where I stand on the baseball thing....Let me ask a serious question, however...WHY IN THE SAM HILL IS CONGRESS INVOLVED IN THIS BB MESS ANYWAY?????? From where I sit, Congress has quite a few OTHER more pressing issues than a bunch of grown men (physically grown, the jury is out on just how many have mentally grown up) shooting themselves up with HGH and 'roids.

Let's get on with the business of governing this nation...let's leave the drup stuff to the commissioner, players, etc., etc. Give this a rest...Roger C. and the rest of them are just making themselves and pro baseball in general look pretty silly!

Antitrust exemption Holmes...

I guess you hate the NFL since they have their turn in an hour...

[FirefightnRick]

Yet, another Clemens supporter, rep woman holds up 4 photos of clemens pitching over a course of the times he's accused of using steroids, saying that he doesn't appear to have changed(body wise) in any of those photos, leading him into another opportunity to ramble for his own defense, which he did and the chairperson interrupted in order to get him to answer the original question. I doubt anyone will bring up the fact that not all steroids build mass, but do many things, mostly assist in muscle recovery if used for that.

Every time he speaks, Clemens looks more and more lost. Someone throw him a life preserver or something!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick

[Quoner]

Nope, no change at all...

Edited February 13, 2008 by Quoner

[KingDL1]

The chair person stated in the beginning that he was going to cancel the hearing but that Clemens and his attorneys insisted on getting their opportunity to defend themselves, and it's backfired, miserably. He's coming off as a bald-faced lyer and it's getting worse by the minute.

Rick

I think the real question should start with why congress released any names in the first place without due process, it was not even the point of the final summary. Congress should have said there is strong indication that the majority of baseball players may have been involved in HGH & steroids at some point but we plan to have that stopped and move forward. If they were going to name names the should have to name everyone in baseball, instead of singling the 75 - 80 out that they did. That was wrong, horribly wrong in to begin with.

I hope Clemens sues the shit out of them just for starting it, but now people act like it is a trial. What congress did was wrong whether or not Clemens did or did not use these substances.

Edited February 13, 2008 by KingDL1

[UNTflyer]

Let's start by drug testing Congress.

[KingDL1]

Let's start by drug testing Congress.

That would be pretty interesting and I think it should be mandatory.

[FirefightnRick]

I think the real question should start with why congress released any names in the first place without due process, it was not even the point of the final summary. Congress should have said there is strong indication that the majority of baseball players may have been involved in HGH & steroids at some point but we plan to have that stopped and move forward. If they were going to name names the should have to name everyone in baseball, instead of singling the 75 - 80 out that they did. That was wrong, horribly wrong in to begin with.

I hope Clemens sues the shit out of them just for starting it, but now people act like it is a trial. What congress did was wrong whether or not Clemens did or did not use these substances.

One congressman stated as to the WHY all of this because they feel they have the obligation to oversee and answer the concerns about our country's illegal drug use, and this was simply a part of it. I imagine had they had evidence of all the other names they would have used them. As it is, they simply went with those that they had. As for today's hearing, again Waxman, the chairperson, right before he had to gavel down Clemens to tell him to shut up, stated that they didn't even want this hearing today, but because Roger demanded it, they did so.

Rick

Edited February 13, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

Yet, another Clemens supporter, rep woman holds up 4 photos of clemens pitching over a course of the times he's accused of using steroids, saying that he doesn't appear to have changed(body wise) in any of those photos, leading him into another opportunity to ramble for his own defense, which he did and the chairperson interrupted in order to get him to answer the original question. I doubt anyone will bring up the fact that not all steroids build mass, but do many things, mostly assist in muscle recovery if used for that.

At the end of the hearing, this same grey headed woman who held up the 4 photos, whose name I didn't catch, walks immediately over to Roger and shakes his hand, shakes his attorney's hands and then gives Clemen's wife a big hug.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

The jist of it:

Mithchell report investigator: Mr. Pettit, did Roger Clemons tell you he did steroids?

Mr. Pettit: Yes

Mitchell report investigator...a second time: Mr. Pettit, did Roger Clemens tell you he did sterdoids?

Mr. Pettit: Yes, and I also told my wife about it and here's her sworn testimony to that same conversation.

Mitchell report investigator....a third time: Mr. Pettit, did Roger Clemens tell you he did sterdoids?

Mr. Pettit: Yes, and my wife can tell you the same thing, again.

House rep: Mr. Clemens, is Andy Pettit a friend of yours?

Mr. Clemens: Yes, he's a great guy

House rep: Is Andy Pettit a truthful person?

Mr. Clemens: Yes, he's a great, great guy.

House rep: How is it then that such a great guy doesn't support what you say you said to him?

Mr. Clemens: Uh, uh, well, uh he "misremembers" what I told him.

House rep: Let me get this straight, your telling me after we have requested now three times for Andy Pettit to state, under oath about what you told him, that he's still misunderstanding what was said?

Mr. Clemens: Yes, Andy Pettit is a great, great, great guy.

Rick

Edited February 13, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

Tom Davis, House Represenative R-VA, just stated that they went to Roger Clemens and told him "you do not have to do this because it will open you up to purjury charges for the future", that they offered to do it over a written inquiry only, and Clemens refused and demanded that the hearing go forward.

Rick

[UNTflyer]

One congressman stated as to the WHY all of this because they feel they have the obligation to oversee and answer the concerns about our country's illegal drug use, and this was simply a part of it.

BULL-SH*T!

If these people are really that concerned about drugs in this country, they should start by visiting the souther border of Texas where people in my business don't dare drive in the middle of the day without a sidearm.

Next, they can visit the inner city... where people in ANY business don't dare drive in the middle of the day without a sidearm.

Then, they can visit graves of every father, mother, son, and daughter ever killed by a drunk driver, meth addict, crack head, or smack shooting S.O.B.

Listening to a multi-millionaire who got caught cheating in a kid's game is not how we deal with the illegal drug problem in this country.

[yyz28]

Aren't we fighting a war?

Isn't social security bankrupt?

Isn't the border still wide open?

Aren't our social programs out of control?

Isn't spending run-amuck?

Isn't the Economly sagging?

Aren't we having massive problems getting the energy resources this country needs?

...then why, for the love of GOD, is congress screwing around REGULATING A #&$@ING GAME?!?!?! It's a bloody game. NOTHING MORE. NO, LISTEN! IT IS A GAME! You hit a ball with a stick, then run in a circle. Can someone PLEASE help me understand how this congress (who has an approval rating 15 points lower than this President who is about a the lowest point I can remember ANY President being in) finds the friggin' time to deal with this issue. How does this affect the American people?!?!?!

...please don't tell me that Clemmens demanded the hearing. CONGRESS CAN'T TELL SOMEONE WHO PLAYS A GAME FOR A LIVING TO STICK IT?!?!?!?! Please don't talk to me about the children. As a parent, this is simple. "Son, you see this guy. He's an idiot. Don't be like him" SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't there some random highschool dodgeball tournament going on that ESPN could be covering instead?!?!? Christ on a crutch!!!

...rant off.

[KingDL1]

One congressman stated as to the WHY all of this because they feel they have the obligation to oversee and answer the concerns about our country's illegal drug use, and this was simply a part of it. I imagine had they had evidence of all the other names they would have used them. As it is, they simply went with those that they had. As for today's hearing, again Waxman, the chairperson, right before he had to gavel down Clemens to tell him to shut up, stated that they didn't even want this hearing today, but because Roger demanded it, they did so.

Rick

Actually Congress did not have anything but hearsay evidence and nothing ruled on by a court, the listing of names was completely inappropriate without due process, and it was not the point of the summary. The summary was just that we need to fix the substance use that is out of control in Baseball, it was not intended to be a witch hunt, but by naming names and not naming all names they created problems.

[FirefightnRick]

Actually Congress did not have anything but hearsay evidence and nothing ruled on by a court, the listing of names was completely inappropriate without due process, and it was not the point of the summary. The summary was just that we need to fix the substance use that is out of control in Baseball, it was not intended to be a witch hunt, but by naming names and not naming all names they created problems.

I've heard a pretty large list of names over the years. So what names have they left off?

And flyer, yyz28, should congress just let it go and do nothing about it? Seems to me if the inquiry causes baseball enough shame by exposing the problem enough that it might open enough eyes to get it worked out for the better some day.

Rick

[KingDL1]

I've heard a pretty large list of names over the years. So what names have they left off?

And flyer, yyz28, should congress just let it go and do nothing about it? Seems to me if the inquiry causes baseball enough shame by exposing the problem enough that it might open enough eyes to get it worked out for the better some day.

Rick

In all, 89 players were named in the report, including free agent Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte of the New York Yankees, Miguel Tejada of the Houston Astros, Eric Gagne of the Milwaukee Brewers and Paul Lo Duca of the Washington Nationals, as well as a list of players like Barry Bonds who have already been publicly associated with steroid use.

Mitchell Report Summary

The Actual Mitchell Report

The overall List

My point is this, the US congress is burning a sports hero down with just hearsay evidence, and when they know full well that a large majority of baseball players both present and retired used restricted performance enhancing substances. There was no gain by actually naming a few isolated players when it is a much larger problem and in the Mitchell report Mitchell made 19 recommendations on how to move forward in MLB. Those should be the steps he and congress should be worried about. And if they were to name names they should have had given those players the opportunity before a list of names came out to defend themselves. It is just irresponsible to assign guilt to these people in a Country where you presumed Innocent until proved guilty, and yet Mitchell just threw this list out in the open for the media to go wild with without regard to defamation of character.

[FirefightnRick]

Mitchell Report Summary

The Actual Mitchell Report

The overall List

My point is this, the US congress is burning a sports hero down with just hearsay evidence, and when they know full well that a large majority of baseball players both present and retired used restricted performance enhancing substances. There was no gain by actually naming a few isolated players when it is a much larger problem and in the Mitchell report Mitchell made 19 recommendations on how to move forward in MLB. Those should be the steps he and congress should be worried about. And if they were to name names they should have had given those players the opportunity before a list of names came out to defend themselves. It is just irresponsible to assign guilt to these people in a Country where you presumed Innocent until proved guilty, and yet Mitchell just threw this list out in the open for the media to go wild with without regard to defamation of character.

They are not burning anyone down. This was an inquiry about a problem that keeps coming up. Roger Clemens has no one to blame but himself for most of today anyways. He stated today that the players union didn't notify him at first about the inquiry, but rather first notified his agent and his attorney's and staff, and the staff and agent and attorneys withheld info from him. And during what I thought what was one of the best rounds of questionions of the day, one congresswoman asked him outright..."Well, why then do those people still work for you now?, had my staff withheld info from me I would have fired every last one of them", to which Clemens bumbled around without any good answer. Afterwards towards the end of the session Waxman asked Clemons if he had read the Mitchell report and if he thought it was a good, thorough start at getting a problem like this solved and he said "Yes, it's a good report and it is a good start". Although I know that he was simply bartering for symphathetic support by trying to look like the good guy with that response, he didn't at all say it was unfair during then or during the entire hearing today.

I think many of you have missed the full extent of the entertainment value that this hearing was today. I don't know why it caught my interest to start watching it from the beginning, but after it got going I couldn't turn it off because it involved two parties calling each other lyers. One had nothing left to hide and acted so, the other squirmed all throughout the day.

Rick

[KingDL1]

They are not burning anyone down. This was an inquiry about a problem that keeps coming up. Roger Clemens has no one to blame but himself for most of today anyways. He stated today that the players union didn't notify him at first about the inquiry, but rather first notified his agent and his attorney's and staff, and the staff and agent and attorneys withheld info from him. And during what I thought what was one of the best rounds of questionions of the day, one congresswoman asked him outright..."Well, why then do those people still work for you now?, had my staff withheld info from me I would have fired every last one of them", to which Clemens bumbled around without any good answer. Afterwards towards the end of the session Waxman asked Clemons if he had read the Mitchell report and if he thought it was a good, thorough start at getting a problem like this solved and he said "Yes, it's a good report and it is a good start". Although I know that he was simply bartering for symphathetic support by trying to look like the good guy with that response, he didn't at all say it was unfair during then or during the entire hearing today.

I think many of you have missed the full extent of the entertainment value that this hearing was today. I don't know why it caught my interest to start watching it from the beginning, but after it got going I couldn't turn it off because it involved two parties calling each other lyers. One had nothing left to hide and acted so, the other squirmed all throughout the day.

Rick

I wish I could have seen part of it, I was at work until 8:00 tonight. I bet it was entertaining. I have no real idea if Clemens did it or not and more importantly to me is I don't care. I really don't like how the Mitchell report named names with such a reckless abandonment. It has only lead to this circus instead of moving on with the 19 recommendations to fix the problem.

I mean I have heard rumors that well there may be those on GMG.com that have at times, I am not sure I should say used Fan performance enhancing substances during Football season. I mean there has been some evidence that a fan desperate to cheer on the team finds their throat hoarse by the end of the first half, and in a moment of weakness willing to take a dose of the CR juice to recover fast enough to be back and cheering in the second half. I may even admit I too felt the pressure to use myself, after the Tortilla Tossing was outlawed due to extreme eye injuries and eye amputations, I really thought I needed to be a louder, and a more spirited fan. There were games, and I mean games that were a little tough to sit through at times, let alone be spirited without a little help. I was at times not sure how many more draw plays or runs up the middle into a stacked box I could take. OK man I may have needed a crutch at times, what the hell, how could we have called 30 straight draw plays. There were periods in the last few seasons I felt forced to partake in the JC and the ML, and at times it was even iced. I even saw one guy whose name I can't recall for my protection and his, well do large doses of JD black.

But for the government to call me out by name, and recklessly throw me to the wolves in the media would really irk me.

Tony

[VideoEagle]

How low do you have to be to have a member of Congress say they don't like your ethics?

I found it interesting that McNamee doesn't have an attorney counseling him on his answers. And while I question him, now that Andy Pettitte and Chuck Knoblauch are apparently BOTH saying Clemens did this I'm wondering about him. His "it would be easier for me to confess to something I didn't do" answer might work, accept he already testified under oath he never did anything. To change now admits perjury.

Did you guys notice the lead investigate of the Barry Bonds perjury case on the second row of the gallery? If the Justice Department thinks they have a case, they can investigate Clemens without Congress even asking. That is probably why Clemens is so adamant in he "innocence" now.

[KRAM1]

The whole thing is crazy...RC is making a fool out of himself...he's like a little kid who got caught red handed stealing cookies who just keeps denying and denying it...no facts, just "not me". This whole thing just is crazy..."Roids and HGH are a big part of professional sports of all kinds...perhaps college and HS as well. It needs to stop...not from a competitive standpoint, but from a health standpoint. The damage WILL show up down the road in a few years...if not sooner. Get real about policing your own sports...owners, league offices and even fans...time to come clean...for lots of reasons...not the laest of which is to get the friggin' Congress out of the picture. They screw up just about everything they touch!

[UNTLifer]

Think Mr. and Mrs. Clemens are having a nice Valentine's Day?

[meangreendork]

Watching the recap on SportsCenter...

...the guys should've done anything to stay home that day.