Conference Attendance

January 18, 2008

The Sun Belt has been improving its product on the field. Troy and Florida Atlantic were very respectable and Middle Tennessee and Arkansas State are on the rise. The rest of the current eight have some work to do.

But, what's really vital is keeping the attendance up. We are not supposed to miss the 15,000 average two years in a row. But how well do conference members draw against each other? Only four of eight averaged 15,000 for conference home games. Here are the attendance averages for conference home games:

Arkansas State 14,250

Florida Atlantic 15,618

Florida Intl 5,677

UL-Lafayette 10,973

UL-Monroe 10,377

Middle Tenn 15,775

North Texas 19,211

Troy 19,574

Unless the two Louisianas get their act together, this conference is in danger. We run the risk of losing money and votes if we don't have eight qualified members. Florida International looks to need life support. I don't think that there'll be an attendance problem with Western Kentucky but if FIU goes away then we'll still need all of the eight remaining to be a viable conference.

These were each schools largest attendance at home in the first two columns and away in the second two.

HOME AWAY

Arkansas State ULL 18,242 FAU 18,540

Florida Atlantic ASU 18,540 UNT 20,479

Fla International UNT 10,129 MTSU 15,605

LA-Lafayette TROY 14,091 MTSU 19,227

LA-Monroe MTSU 10,228 UNT 18,973

Middle Tennessee ULL 19,227 TROY 18,242

North Texas FAU 20,479 TROY 23,887

Troy UNT 23,887 ASU 14,094

By way of explanation, Arkansas State's largest home conference game was against Louisiana-Lafayette where 18,242 attended that game. Their largest crowd at an away game (conference) was when they played at Florida Atlantic with 18,540 in attendance.

The smallest conference attendance:

HOME AWAY

Arkansas State UNT 11,736 ULM 12,088

Florida Atlantic ULM 10,902 FIU 6,122

Fla International TROY 5,723 ULM 8,814

LA-Lafayette ULM 8,045 FIU 5,734

LA-Monroe FIU 8,814 ULL 8,045

Middle Tenn FAU 11,388 ULM 10,228

North Texas MTSU 18,181 ULL 9,464

Troy FAU 17,893 FIU 5,723

The total attendance for all seven conference games by school:

North Texas 112,849

Troy 112,803

Middle Tenn 105,386

Florida Atlantic 103,624

Arkansas State 100,131

LA-Monroe 93,323

LA-Lafayette 87,093

Fla International 63,451

I really bleed for Louisiana (Lafayette). They're my favorite opponent (I grew up about 100 miles from Lafayette. They used to have perhaps the best average attendance of the eight current members. My how they have fallen, Their best attended home conference game was against Troy which drew 14,091, They should be in the SWAC...their home game with Grambling State drew 30,000. Louisiana-Monroe only averaged a hair over 10,000 for their home conference games. That's totally unacceptable. When their deal with Arkansas runs out then they won't even be able to make up the 15,000 criterion in alternate years. Please FIU, do something now. We need you.

akriesman · January 18, 2008

Very nice job. I think comparing only the conference games says a lot more about the strength of the local fan base. Including the out of conference games can really skew the attendance numbers both positively and negatively.

The weather certainly plays a factor though. Just look at the WKU game. In general, we were pretty lucky to have good weather this year.

Eagle1855 · January 18, 2008

How is FIU still Div 1?

nautique · January 18, 2008

What a crappy conference.

I just cannot believe that going independent is not a better deal for UNT or Troy for that matter. (football only)

SUMG · January 18, 2008

I really bleed for Louisiana (Lafayette). They're my favorite opponent (I grew up about 100 miles from Lafayette. They used to have perhaps the best average attendance of the eight current members. My how they have fallen, Their best attended home conference game was against Troy which drew 14,091, They should be in the SWAC...their home game with Grambling State drew 30,000. Louisiana-Monroe only averaged a hair over 10,000 for their home conference games. That's totally unacceptable. When their deal with Arkansas runs out then they won't even be able to make up the 15,000 criterion in alternate years. Please FIU, do something now. We need you.

You're right about ULL. BTW...they didn't play Grambling this year. Are you thinking of the McNeese State game, which drew 33,000?

Anyway...ULL drew 22,000 for Ohio and 33,000 for McNeese (games 2 and 3 on their schedule)...and then as Gray Eagle points out, once SBC play rolls around...their attendance goes in the crapper.

Green Crazy · January 18, 2008

You know how the official attendance for a NT football game is said to about 18k and those who were there say there couldn't have been more than 10k...how many butt's are actually in seats for the FIU games, if they are oficially reporting about 5k? That's pretty bad!

MeanGreen61 · January 18, 2008

You're right about ULL. BTW...they didn't play Grambling this year. Are you thinking of the McNeese State game, which drew 33,000?
Anyway...ULL drew 22,000 for Ohio and 33,000 for McNeese (games 2 and 3 on their schedule)...and then as Gray Eagle points out, once SBC play rolls around...their attendance goes in the crapper.

ULM played Grambling.

Dodge2007 · January 18, 2008

Troy, Fau, or UNT will not ever get any respect in the SBC. Troy's record and strength of schedule proved that out this season.

VideoEagle · January 18, 2008

It's very doubtful any team will ever be forced to FCS because of having lower than 15000 in attendance. Yes, that is suppose to be the limit, but the committee that is suppose to do the enforcing includes at least two ADs from the Mac. The Mac has more teams with attendance problems than the Belt does! Not much of a chance that committee is going to seriously sanction many teams. More likely, they will be put on "probation" and nothing else. The "probation" can go on for as long as the committee chooses before any other action needs to be taken.

When the rules were first passed, a couple of schools (Kent State, I think and a couple of others) threatened legal action against the NCAA if they enforced the rules as first written. Multiple attorneys weighed in saying the rules were probably unenforceable. Part of the reason is in every other sport and sub-division, it is a mater of the school just being willing to pay to be at the level they want. Any school willing to be D1 just has to offer the required number of scholarships for every other sport except football. Unless game attendance requirements are implemented for basketball, baseball and all other sports, the attorneys thought the football only rules would be something that could trigger anti-trust action against the NCAA.

NT80 · January 18, 2008

You know how the official attendance for a NT football game is said to about 18k and those who were there say there couldn't have been more than 10k...how many butt's are actually in seats for the FIU games, if they are oficially reporting about 5k? That's pretty bad!

I believe UNT's actual attendance is pretty close to the reported numbers. Fouts is easy to guage crowds as each sideline stand seats 10K, plus about 5K for each endzone. I realize it doesn't have to be actual attendance (can be tickets sold) but FAU and FIU are outright suspect in some of their reporting. Just check game photos on their boards.

Does it matter if there are real crowds or fake crowds? Yes. A 1-A program should be the top of college football, in performance and fan support. A 1-A team without a real fan base is just.......just........just another Smu!

Edited January 18, 2008 by NT80

GreenAlums · January 18, 2008

I realize it doesn't have to be actual attendance (can be tickets sold) but FAU and FIU are outright suspect in some of their reporting. Just check game photos on their boards.

I thought the attendance didn't count unless it was just that, attendance. I didn't think we could count tickets "sold". Hmmm. If that's the case I can quit trying to get the ticket people to count my extra tickets when the family can't make it . They will do it by the way!!

PlummMeanGreen · January 19, 2008

QUOTE(GrayEagleOne @ Jan 17 2008, 11:52 PM) I really bleed for Louisiana (Lafayette). They're my favorite opponent (I grew up about 100 miles from Lafayette. They used to have perhaps the best average attendance of the eight current members. My how they have fallen, Their best attended home conference game was against Troy which drew 14,091, They should be in the SWAC...their home game with Grambling State drew 30,000. Louisiana-Monroe only averaged a hair over 10,000 for their home conference games. That's totally unacceptable. When their deal with Arkansas runs out then they won't even be able to make up the 15,000 criterion in alternate years. Please FIU, do something now. We need you.

Well, Jack, if the SBC were to eventually implode or replace some schools with those even UNT leaders would see as unacceptable, then what do you see as UNT's option(s)?

I think Karl Benson might have an idea that La Tech would (still) probably concur. :rolleyes:

January 19, 2008

You're right about ULL. BTW...they didn't play Grambling this year. Are you thinking of the McNeese State game, which drew 33,000?
Anyway...ULL drew 22,000 for Ohio and 33,000 for McNeese (games 2 and 3 on their schedule)...and then as Gray Eagle points out, once SBC play rolls around...their attendance goes in the crapper.

Sorry, John. I did it from memory and that seems to be getting worse. I meant to say Louisiana-Monroe who played Grambling and drew over 30,000. Pretty much the same thing as ULL/McNeese. Grambling is in the next county over and admittedly they probably provided at least 20,000 of the total.

How much longer will UL-Lafayette put up with Bustle? He's been there six years and is 18 games under .500. With a strong team they could easily be the attendance leader in the SBC. When you don't have a strong team you have to rely on nearby rivalries.

On the other hand Monroe is probably doing as well as they can with their limited budget. Mostly it's just that they are the number three team in a small market. They'll seldom outdraw either Louisiana Tech or Grambling. For that reason they should have remained in 1-AA where the expenses are less and there are no attendance requirements.

I am deeply concerned about the attendance at FIU and ULM. If those two falter, it will be enough to wreck the conference. I know that we have a moratorium on anyone moving up right now but we should look hard at Appalachian State and/or Georgia Southern, two perpetually strong programs that usually draw in the 20,000 range with multiple national championships in FCS perhaps even before the ban is lifted. That's assuming that we intend to keep the Belt a viable conference.

nautique · January 19, 2008

I am deeply concerned about the attendance at FIU and ULM. If those two falter, it will be enough to wreck the conference. I know that we have a moratorium on anyone moving up right now but we should look hard at Appalachian State and/or Georgia Southern, two perpetually strong programs that usually draw in the 20,000 range with multiple national championships in FCS perhaps even before the ban is lifted. That's assuming that we intend to keep the Belt a viable conference.

Now the conference gets really tough and gets a little more respect with App state and G. Southern.

But look at ULM, they beat Alabama and get NO PROPS. The media and the BCS has no respect for the Belt.

CaribbeanGreen · January 19, 2008

Now the conference gets really tough and gets a little more respect with App state and G. Southern.
But look at ULM, they beat Alabama and get NO PROPS. The media and the BCS has no respect for the Belt.

And your last point echoes my thoughts, at least on one level..... we hear so much about Troy's big wins over (ultimately unranked and 5+ loss) Mizzou and Okie State over the years, and then this year we had the ULM win over Bama (@Bama, which is inarguably more impressive than Troy's wins), and how that's what NT needs... how that never happened for us (at least since winning at Tech) even in the good years, blah blah. This is where I couldn't disagree more. Sure, I'd love to knock off a big dog. Admittedly, it would be a lot nicer if we knocked off LSU or Texas instead of Mizzou or OkSt, but even still... if you do that and combine it with 4 or 5 losses or even with NOT WINNING THE BELT, and what have you gotten?? Not much. What did that Mizzou win 6 years or so ago really get Troy? Does anyone still recall that ULM beat Bama outside of Tuscaloosa? Sure, beating a "name" opponent once in a while gives us a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, but what does it really do for the program?

Point is, we can bitch and moan and whine about the Belt's ability and attendance all we want (even though it seems like some go on about how much better the Belt is now while some tear it apart), but we had better start winning games. I don't care if it's against Incarnate Word or FIU - we need wins. The only thing we need the big opponents for is a paycheck, and I get that it's a necessary evil -- but we're only going to gain traction in the college football world by consistently racking up wins, year after year.

If we had maintained our momentum after our run, and we could say now that we'd won the Belt say 6 or 7 out of 8 years, and were losing 1 or 2 (money) games a year -- can you concieve what a span like that would do for the program?? No one would care what the hell that schedule was... that's the kind of run that puts you on the map, that makes you go places. Not an early-season win once every four years against an Independence Bowl representative.

CaribbeanGreen · January 19, 2008

Oh, and in regards to FIU, I know they're in a dismal way, but remember that they played well off campus this year at the Orange Bowl while their NEW STADIUM was being built. Those numbers are skewed. Not saying that FIU is going to average 20k, but there's no reason they shouldn't be right in the mix in our conference.

Two points from having lived in South Florida recently:

a) The Orange Bowl is a decrepit cesspool, even with all the history. It's located in Overtown, probably without a doubt one of the two seediest crime-ridden areas of Miami (along with Liberty City). There's essentially no parking - you can pay 50 bucks to park on someone's lawn, or you can take the Metro Rail from quite far away, the Miami mass transit system that makes DartRail seem like a luxury crossing on the Orient Express. It's a huge pain in the ass, and a good distance from FIU... The FIU campus is in far west Miami, just south of Doral, one of the nicer, newer, more affluent areas.

b- FIU just made a big enough financial commitment to build a new on-campus stadium. They're not going anywhere. We'll see where the road takes them, but Miami is more of a front-runners town than even Dallas (by FAR).. with a new stadium and an improved team, they'll be there.

Edited January 19, 2008 by CaribbeanGreen

January 19, 2008

It's very doubtful any team will ever be forced to FCS because of having lower than 15000 in attendance. Yes, that is suppose to be the limit, but the committee that is suppose to do the enforcing includes at least two ADs from the Mac. The Mac has more teams with attendance problems than the Belt does! Not much of a chance that committee is going to seriously sanction many teams. More likely, they will be put on "probation" and nothing else. The "probation" can go on for as long as the committee chooses before any other action needs to be taken.
When the rules were first passed, a couple of schools (Kent State, I think and a couple of others) threatened legal action against the NCAA if they enforced the rules as first written. Multiple attorneys weighed in saying the rules were probably unenforceable. Part of the reason is in every other sport and sub-division, it is a mater of the school just being willing to pay to be at the level they want. Any school willing to be D1 just has to offer the required number of scholarships for every other sport except football. Unless game attendance requirements are implemented for basketball, baseball and all other sports, the attorneys thought the football only rules would be something that could trigger anti-trust action against the NCAA.

Are you telling me that the NCAA can't establish criteria for divisions in a sport? Then why in hell did we ever fall to 1-AA? As long as the requirements are not discriminatory, I don't see why they cannot legally enforce them.

Each sport operates differently. Some schools are, for instance, Division III in football and Division I in soccer. If the NCAA should decide that that there are too many schools in a division to administer, and put attendance requirements for a particular division and it is approved by the majority, then your choice is to meet the requirements, drop to a lower division, join the NAIA, or start your own association.

The rule, as I understand it, is currently written that a Division I football university must average 15,000 at least every other year or face reduction to a lower division. The requirement is clear; the enforcement is not. That is mostly due to the method of reporting.

I believe that there will come a time when that requirement will need to be enforced. Why? Because I believe that Division IA, FBS, or whatever will max out at around 120 to maybe 132. The reason for that is largely TV money. Too many schools dilute the total media package and the amount paid to each conference/team. Teams that could meet the requirements are being put on hold while those that aren't capable continue to draw far more money. That, too, might be grounds for a lawsuit in this day and time.

January 19, 2008

QUOTE(GrayEagleOne @ Jan 17 2008, 11:52 PM) I really bleed for Louisiana (Lafayette). They're my favorite opponent (I grew up about 100 miles from Lafayette. They used to have perhaps the best average attendance of the eight current members. My how they have fallen, Their best attended home conference game was against Troy which drew 14,091, They should be in the SWAC...their home game with Grambling State drew 30,000. Louisiana-Monroe only averaged a hair over 10,000 for their home conference games. That's totally unacceptable. When their deal with Arkansas runs out then they won't even be able to make up the 15,000 criterion in alternate years. Please FIU, do something now. We need you.
Well, Jack, if the SBC were to eventually implode or replace some schools with those even UNT leaders would see as unacceptable, then what do you see as UNT's option(s)?
I think Karl Benson might have an idea that La Tech would (still) probably concur.

Jim, if that happened in the immediate future, the WAC would be our only option unless CUSA decided to have more than 12 teams.

If the NCAA began enforcing attendance requirements that would almost certainly include Idaho and possibly Utah State in their expulsion/demotion. The WAC would definitely need us.

That wouldn't be all bad. We'd pick up an arch-rival in Louisiana Tech, renew our old rivalry with New Mexico State, and a couple of old conference mates, Boise State and Nevada. We've never been in a conference with the others but Hawaii is the only one that we haven't played.

While it isn't optimal, I've listened to and read about all of those on the same night that it happened. Hawaii would be the fly in the ointment, bu0t that would only occur once a year for each sport and every other year for football. We could live with that.

Edited January 19, 2008 by GrayEagleOne

FirefightnRick · January 19, 2008

The Mac has more teams with attendance problems than the Belt does!

Speaking of the MAC and perennial bad teams.....

http://www.ubathletics.buffalo.edu/footbal...extension.shtml

Football Coach Turner Gill Receives Extension

Contract extension keeps Gill on Buffalo sidelines through 2012

Turner Gill

BUFFALO, NY – University at Buffalo Director of Athletics Warde Manuel announced today that head football coach Turner Gill has received a contract extension through the 2012 season. It is the culmination of negotiations that began after UB’s victories on Homecoming and Parents weekend. The contract moves the third-year coach’s salary to the top tier of all Mid-American Conference coaches.

Gill, who earned Mid-American Conference Coach of the Year honors this fall after Buffalo's finest season in its Division I-A history, originally signed a five-year contract in December of 2005. The Fort Worth, TX native led Buffalo to a 5-3 record in the MAC in 2007 – including a share of the MAC East Division title with a 4-2 record. The five wins overall were the most by the Bulls since moving up to Division I-A in 1999, and was just one of many milestones achieved by the football team this season.

“I am extremely pleased to reward Turner's outstanding efforts in this way,” said Manuel. “He has brought to our football program a winning mentality, stability, confidence and a true vision for excellence both on and off the field. All of the accolades he has received have been richly deserved and I am very happy to know that he will continue to lead our football program for the foreseeable future. On the day we hired Turner I stated that, ‘I can't wait to get started with what I think will be a very exciting chapter in Bulls' football history.’ I am even more excited about what the future holds for UB football now that I have seen Turner's work over the past two years.

“The answer to the question many have asked me since my arrival on campus regarding whether the University is committed to supporting football at UB is a resounding yes,” said Manuel. “As we approach my fourth season of football at UB, I can state unequivocally that we are well-positioned to not only compete, but win championships. While acknowledging the support of our fan base and students who have stood with us through the years, the time has come for more UB alumni, faculty, staff, students and the people of Western New York to become a part of this program. Turner and the team are bringing an exciting brand of Division I-A football and are working to win championships and showcase this region’s work ethic, pride and excellence.”

UB President John B. Simpson noted that: “Coach Gill has proven himself to be an outstanding ambassador for UB wherever he goes, whether on the playing field or in our surrounding communities. We were delighted to see his leadership recognized with his selection as MAC Coach of the Year—not to mention his significant impact on the academic success of the team and the unprecedented eight student-athletes named to the All-MAC team.

“His commitment to serving our communities, including the leadership role he and his wife Gayle have taken in partnering with the Buffalo school system to create new opportunities for youth in our region, plays just as important a role in advancing the UB vision,” said Simpson. “Those achievements and contributions are a source of pride for all of us at UB—and indeed, for Bulls fans and UB alumni and supporters everywhere.”

Buffalo enjoyed its first winning record at home since moving up to Division I-A and its two MAC road wins were also its best effort since joining the conference. Gill, who also served as the offensive coordinator, directed an offense that scored 291 points - the most in its I-A history and just 28 points shy of the all-time school record. Junior quarterback Drew Willy (Randolph, NJ/Randolph) completed a school-record 258 passes and had the highest pass efficiency rating in school history and sophomore running back James Starks (Niagara Falls, NY/Niagara Falls) became the Bulls’ first 1,000-yard rusher in the I-A era with 1,103 yards.

In addition, Buffalo had eight players selected to the All-MAC teams after having just seven in their first eight years of conference play. The Bulls had eight MAC Players of the Week had two players on national semifinal “watch lists” – Ben Woods (Ray Guy Award) and Trevor Scott (Ted Hendricks Award), while senior center Jamey Richard played in the Hula Bowl and has been invited to the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. Scott also has been chosen to play in the Texas vs. The Nation Game in El Paso on Feb. 2. The Bulls are expected to return 18 starters – including four All-MAC selections – in 2008.

“I am grateful to President John Simpson and Athletic Director, Warde Manuel for extending my contract and their commitment to both myself and the football program,” said Gill. “It is great to know they are as committed to the staff as we are to them. I feel very honored to be at this outstanding University.”

Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.

Rick

PlummMeanGreen · January 19, 2008

Jim, if that happened in the immediate future, the WAC would be our only option unless CUSA decided to have more than 12 teams.
If the NCAA began enforcing attendance requirements that would almost certainly include Idaho and possibly Utah State in their expulsion/demotion. The WAC would definitely need us.
That wouldn't be all bad. We'd pick up an arch-rival in Louisiana Tech, renew our old rivalry with New Mexico State, and a couple of old conference mates, Boise State and Nevada. We've never been in a conference with the others but Hawaii is the only one that we haven't played.
While it isn't optimal, I've listened to and read about all of those on the same night that it happened. Hawaii would be the fly in the ointment, bu0t that would only occur once a year for each sport and every other year for football. We could live with that.

Who knows but the "shadow" as to what will happen with the SBC, the MAC or whoever, Jack, but if the SBC imploded because a few of its present members could not cut the mustard at the turnstiles, might an expanded "eastern" WAC with 2 or so other SBC schools than just North Texas then become a real possibility?

Frequent Flyer Miles in the SBC? Seems like an expensive budgetary boo-boo that while our basketball team is on the road this very minute playing one of the Florida SBC schools that the other SBC school in the Sunshine State was not a part of that same road trip, too. After all, isn't it 1,800 miles from DFW to Miami?

If it is around 1,800 miles to Miami from DFW, by our not scheduling both SBC/Fla. schools on the same trip UNT will add 3,600 (round trip) flyer miles to the travel expenses part of our UNT Athletic Dept. budget. (And how many miles is that trip to Honolulu for those flying out of DFW Airport)? Someone please correct me on the mileage numbers from DFW to Miami if I'm wrong. (FWIW...........another fellow alum of ours, Jack, brought that present Florida/SBC schools basketball scheduling quirk to my attention just today).

Edited January 20, 2008 by PlummMeanGreen

stebo · January 20, 2008

"Travel" is measured in terms of cost, not miles. While Florida is a long ways from Texas - it costs about $200 round trip to fly to Miami. Try pricing a ticket to Moscow or Boise, ID... you will pay 4 times that. Same goes for Reno, Logan, San Jose, Fresno, Hawaii and pretty much every single WAC program/city. The only affordable trips would be Las Cruces (flights to El Paso are about the same cost as to Florida) and Ruston - which is basically the same distance as Monroe. You guys think of travel in terms of miles but travel is measured in terms of dollars and "cost"... The Belt is pretty compact for travel in football. In basketball, the divisions make it very affordable. Is the Belt the bottom rung? Pretty close... but it is definitely less expensive then the WAC in terms of travel. I am not going to argue about it but when ignorance rears its ugly head then I will correct inaccuracies.

SUMG · January 20, 2008

"Travel" is measured in terms of cost, not miles. While Florida is a long ways from Texas - it costs about $200 round trip to fly to Miami. Try pricing a ticket to Moscow or Boise, ID... you will pay 4 times that. Same goes for Reno, Logan, San Jose, Fresno, Hawaii and pretty much every single WAC program/city. The only affordable trips would be Las Cruces (flights to El Paso are about the same cost as to Florida) and Ruston - which is basically the same distance as Monroe. You guys think of travel in terms of miles but travel is measured in terms of dollars and "cost"... The Belt is pretty compact for travel in football. In basketball, the divisions make it very affordable. Is the Belt the bottom rung? Pretty close... but it is definitely less expensive then the WAC in terms of travel. I am not going to argue about it but when ignorance rears its ugly head then I will correct inaccuracies.

First of all, in football...since we charter planes...I'm sure the cost would still be based on miles. (Now on other sports....you would be right).

When we added FIU and FAU, I remember some of us bitching about adding two teams that far away. Well, Ark. State Fan, came on the board, and told us that, in hoops...we'd get two conference games when we went to Miami. I guess not, as the Belt has us going to FAU and FIU coming to Denton.

Anyway, we're stuck in this league. I guess we might as well make the most of it.

Edited January 20, 2008 by SUMG

stebo · January 20, 2008

Football pays the bills and therefore gets to charter planes. If we were Western Kentucky - our football team might be bussing to far off places and the basketball team getting the chartered planes, lol. Travel costs for football are the most expensive because of the amount of players - but it is still less to charter a plane to FL then it is to about 90% of the WAC. The charter that we use is essentially Southwest Airlines. They simply use one of their planes, three of their pilots, and a couple of helpers for the ride. I am not sure if we are using Southwest anymore, I had heard that we switched to a more private carrier - but we used to use them. Heck, I was fortunate enough to fly on a couple of the team flights thanks to the DD when I was a radio sponsor with the bar.

I have no idea why we aren't playing FIU and FAU in the same trip - but we aren't adding extra miles because of it. I am sure that it has to do with scheduling. How would you like to be told by the conference that you have to always play ALL of your home games two days after FIU or FAU? It just doesn't work that way. But we aren't making two trips to FL - just one. I think what WW said was that we wouldn't fly there twice in a year and we aren't. The Belt cannot make the entire conference schedule to guarantee every single team that they will get a swing through FL to fit both teams in a two day stretch. It would be a scheduling nightmare for the the FU's and for the Belt. They have to be treated as two individual members. What the Belt can do is TRY to do that... and if they cannot get it done then they can guarantee that we won't fly there more then once a year for men's basketball. I mean - if it was that simple - we would just schedule double headers for all mens and womens basketball anywhere around the country and save even more. That is just not a realistic expectation.

SUMG · January 20, 2008

Football pays the bills and therefore gets to charter planes. If we were Western Kentucky - our football team might be bussing to far off places and the basketball team getting the chartered planes, lol. Travel costs for football are the most expensive because of the amount of players - but it is still less to charter a plane to FL then it is to about 90% of the WAC. The charter that we use is essentially Southwest Airlines. They simply use one of their planes, three of their pilots, and a couple of helpers for the ride. I am not sure if we are using Southwest anymore, I had heard that we switched to a more private carrier - but we used to use them. Heck, I was fortunate enough to fly on a couple of the team flights thanks to the DD when I was a radio sponsor with the bar.
I have no idea why we aren't playing FIU and FAU in the same trip - but we aren't adding extra miles because of it. I am sure that it has to do with scheduling. How would you like to be told by the conference that you have to always play ALL of your home games two days after FIU or FAU? It just doesn't work that way. But we aren't making two trips to FL - just one. I think what WW said was that we wouldn't fly there twice in a year and we aren't. The Belt cannot make the entire conference schedule to guarantee every single team that they will get a swing through FL to fit both teams in a two day stretch. It would be a scheduling nightmare for the the FU's and for the Belt. They have to be treated as two individual members. What the Belt can do is TRY to do that... and if they cannot get it done then they can guarantee that we won't fly there more then once a year for men's basketball. I mean - if it was that simple - we would just schedule double headers for all mens and womens basketball anywhere around the country and save even more. That is just not a realistic expectation.

You could send teams to Florida...to play two games. But, that would require WW booting Denver from the league....which he should do, but won't.

That's why we have this crappy scheduling...unbalanced number in our two divisions. (7 in one, 6 in the other).

Anyway, I'm going to do a geneology check on you, Stevie....and see just how close of a relative Wright Waters is.

PlummMeanGreen · January 20, 2008

You could send teams to Florida...to play two games. But, that would require WW booting Denver from the league....which he should do, but won't.
That's why we have this crappy scheduling...unbalanced number in our two divisions. (7 in one, 6 in the other).
Anyway, I'm going to do a geneology check on you, Stevie....and see just how close of a relative Wright Waters is.

So the Sun Belt is the only 1-A football conference with basketball-only schools in its league, SUMG? If so, probably even more fodder for those who think we're bush league by allowing that. John, maybe we just expected too much from our alma mater the last 40 years in the area of actually climbing up the NCAA D1-A ladder, you think?

Strong leadership is really needed at UNT more than ever to lead us out of all this & bust up some athletic trends that will only keep us in the company of schools that a school our size & scope should have no association. One can only use small-time style thinking to guess what schools the SBC will have in line for replacements if the schools GrayEagleOne suggests have to drop out of the Belt because of annual turnstile deficiencies.

And to only think that in September of 1976 many of us witnessed the Mean Green almost upsetting the Darrell Royal-coached and Earl Campbell-led Texas Longhorns. Such talk today would be considered "sputnik" talk from some quarters on this board who've only read of such things.

Will such future expectations only be squelched by those who only know (and readily accept) lower levels of competition with schools that will never excite or sell tickets starting with the fan base or group that could really make a huge difference at the the turnstiles in Denton, ie, the DFW UNT alumnus base of 100,000 (give or take)? It's more than nice to have all these rabid fans that post regularly on GMG.com, but our entire group together would still only fill parts of only one section at Fouts Field. So with that in mind, do we just keep on with our business as usual approach to satisfy the few who like their accessibility to some of our athletic staff and/or those who will accept most anything dished down as long as they get to tailgate and do some name-dropping/ "pal'sie/wals'ie" kind of thing with a few from the UNT Athletic Dept? Don't many of us wish they (UNT staffers) didn't really have that much time for all that but (rather) were doing other more significant things that could get us out of our 2 1/2 decades of mostly "non-Top 25" nothing-ness?

We need strong leadership at UNT to take us out of this quagmire that even Coach Todd Dodge said it's time to change in Denton; you know, as to cease all this almost half century of "huge potential at UNT" talk for starters & our start actually doing something about it for a change? Some of us are running out of time to see all this happen in Denton; and FWIW.........many of you Young Gun Alums are going to find out one day just how fast this thing called life goes by, too.

Just my .02 from one who (like many of you) lives in a Top 10 major sports market who likes his college football a bit more Big Time (and Big Time thinkin') than we've had of late, that's all. If we can dream it, then can we eventually attain it in Mean Green Country?

As previously stated, we really do need some very strong leadership at UNT at this time even beginning with whoever the present Chairman of the UNT Board of Regents is because if truly advancing this program beyond where its been for way too long doesn't't start at the top, then we can expect even more years (decades) of a Bottom 25 co-existance--football wise?

Edited January 20, 2008 by PlummMeanGreen