Racism In Football

[JesseMartin]

I'm going to use actual quotes from people in this, so be warned, it might be offensive to some. Some of the things were offensive to me as well, but I think it's an important discussion, and wouldn't be the same if I just generally referred to statements without quoting them.

Racism has always been a big issue for me, ever since I realized in my teens that my family was a bunch of racist assholes. It came to a head one summer, when one of my only friends from my youth spent a lot of time at our house that year. We became close after he confided in me that he thought all of his popular, jock-type friends were only around him so they could look good. I told my parents he was coming over again, and my father said, "Oh, yeah? The negroid is coming over again?"

I was only 16 at the time, and gave him quite an earful. Ron was one of the only minorities in our high school, and being friends with him helped to start opening my eyes to a lot of the crap in the world. Plus, he was one of the only people who gave a damn about me. I would have thought that my parents would have thought of him more as a good person who was nice to their geeky kid, not just "that negroid". Their prejudice outweighed their desire for their unpopular son to develop friendships.

A few years later, at UNT, we were having a panel discussion on racial issues. There are so many Woodsons, was our guy's name Detrion? Anyway, he was a part of the panel, and was talking about watching NFL games with his white roommate. He had asked his roommate about what he thought when he saw black athletes. The way he put it was, "When you see somebody run in a touchdown, do you think, 'He's a really talented athlete,' or do you think, 'Damn, that's a fast nigger?'" According to him, his roommate confessed that it was the latter, and realized he needed to start a new line of thinking.

I'm in an odd situation, because racism just never made any sense to me, even as a kid growing up in a racist home, but I'd like to hear from others what your thoughts are on people's attitudes about minority athletes. I read on ESPN.com that one of the writers had spoken to a Heisman voter who refused to ever vote for a black player. Some people, in their pretty little homes with their picture-perfect life, think that the world is all nice and there aren't problems like racism anymore, but the rest of us know better. The age of political correctness has made it so that a lot of the racism is fairly well-hidden, and unless you get to see what people are like at home, you don't realize just how prejudiced they are.

Some topic points:

Will these attitudes change any time soon, or will people continue "keeping their thoughts to themselves", maintaining the attitudes and just not making them known?

Because most people are so PC about it, does it affect minority communities? I think so but would like to hear your thoughts.

And, how can people, seeing all the changes in the past few decades, still retain the same idiotic notions of their grandparents?

[KingDL1]

I'm going to use actual quotes from people in this, so be warned, it might be offensive to some. Some of the things were offensive to me as well, but I think it's an important discussion, and wouldn't be the same if I just generally referred to statements without quoting them.

Racism has always been a big issue for me, ever since I realized in my teens that my family was a bunch of racist assholes. It came to a head one summer, when one of my only friends from my youth spent a lot of time at our house that year. We became close after he confided in me that he thought all of his popular, jock-type friends were only around him so they could look good. I told my parents he was coming over again, and my father said, "Oh, yeah? The negroid is coming over again?"

I was only 16 at the time, and gave him quite an earful. Ron was one of the only minorities in our high school, and being friends with him helped to start opening my eyes to a lot of the crap in the world. Plus, he was one of the only people who gave a damn about me. I would have thought that my parents would have thought of him more as a good person who was nice to their geeky kid, not just "that negroid". Their prejudice outweighed their desire for their unpopular son to develop friendships.

A few years later, at UNT, we were having a panel discussion on racial issues. There are so many Woodsons, was our guy's name Detrion? Anyway, he was a part of the panel, and was talking about watching NFL games with his white roommate. He had asked his roommate about what he thought when he saw black athletes. The way he put it was, "When you see somebody run in a touchdown, do you think, 'He's a really talented athlete,' or do you think, 'Damn, that's a fast nigger?'" According to him, his roommate confessed that it was the latter, and realized he needed to start a new line of thinking.

I'm in an odd situation, because racism just never made any sense to me, even as a kid growing up in a racist home, but I'd like to hear from others what your thoughts are on people's attitudes about minority athletes. I read on ESPN.com that one of the writers had spoken to a Heisman voter who refused to ever vote for a black player. Some people, in their pretty little homes with their picture-perfect life, think that the world is all nice and there aren't problems like racism anymore, but the rest of us know better. The age of political correctness has made it so that a lot of the racism is fairly well-hidden, and unless you get to see what people are like at home, you don't realize just how prejudiced they are.

Some topic points:

Will these attitudes change any time soon, or will people continue "keeping their thoughts to themselves", maintaining the attitudes and just not making them known?

Because most people are so PC about it, does it affect minority communities? I think so but would like to hear your thoughts.

And, how can people, seeing all the changes in the past few decades, still retain the same idiotic notions of their grandparents?

Got to love the PC!

Sounds like you may take people a little too serious or you may get a little over emotional. I personally don't believe word choice makes you a racist, it is your actions that define you. There is not much true racism left in this country especially in football, you just don't want to be Christian it seems them and smokers are fair game. But in football pretty much the best man for the job gets it in due time.

Edited January 1, 2008 by KingDL1

[SilverEagle]

Detrion Woodson, was on the team from 96 to 99. I don't know what he played.

It's a fact that when we look at someone, the first thing we notice is their sex, and the second thing we notice is the color of their skin. When people say they are color blind, I find it quietly amusing.

What are you asking? That we comment on all your topic points?

Let me put these numbers out there for you to consider.

As of 2005 the percentage of African Americans in the US population was 12.8 %.

What is the percentage of African Americans in the prison population?

What is the percentage of African American children in foster care in Texas? I can answer that one....about 45 to 50%.

I'm guessing that that's about the same percentage nation wide, and I'm willing to bet that it's about the same % as the prison population.

Who makes the decisions about adults of color going to prison, and children of color, going into foster care? Are the decision makers predominately Black or White?

[stebo]

Yeah, agree with the boys downstairs... Jesse, you seem like a great guy, we should probably not discuss this kind of stuff on here.

Edited January 1, 2008 by stebo

[Varsity]

It has nothing to do with race - it has to do with socio-economic influences.

Not exactly. The poorest nations on earth are black nations. The poorest country in the Western Hemisphere is Haiti. The poorest cities in the USA are politically dominated by blacks (Detroit particularly). There are some coorelations between wealth and race.

I grew up in a liberal household. Saying nigger was tantamount to cussing. My brothers and I were part of a program that integrated an all-black elementary school in the 1970s. We encounteresd all kinds of black people there good, bad and indifferent. Some of the black teachers were openly hostile to the white kids who represented about 10 percent of the student body. As athletes we to battle the stereotype that blacks are naturally better in athletics. We had to be twice as good as any black player at the same position. My brother, one of the finest natural athletes I have ever seen, finally won a starting QB HS job in the third game of his senior season. Afterward, he had 23 scholarship offers and played big-time football at a big time school where he had to fight the stereotype all over again. I had the same sort of battles as did my younger brother.

Blacks use white guilt to gain economic and political leverage. Whites condone in blacks what they condemn in whites. Whites prefer not to mention racial aspects of cases and incidents that go against them in the silly notion that by ignoring black racism it will go away. I do not condone knuckle-dragging racism of any sort -- anti-black or anti-white -- but the idea that we can ignore race is ridiculous. Blacks have been encouraged to think racially, whites have been punnished for it.

I think you should give those "racist assholes" as you refer to your family a second chance. They are, afterall, your blood kin. We all have family members with whom we disagree but blood ties are binding and I would never toss over my own kin because we disagree. There are actually worse things than not liking blacks. All men have prejudices.

[MeanGreenEagle]

Starting this thread was a good idea...

[JesseMartin]

Giving them another chance is a bad idea. Things completely fell apart before the wedding, because I tried to work things out with them after two big problems:

1) Two gay friends (who were a couple) visited my family with me and were appalled at the discussion leading to the statement, "fags aren't really people".

2) My ex was known to be a problem in advance, because "she's a spic, and spics and niggers are always going to cause problems".

They were not willing to change their attitudes, or even keep their mouths shut about all the kinds of people they don't like.

I didn't want a brawl at the wedding, so I told them that "since there will be plenty of spics, niggers, and fags there, you'd better not come. And they'll be around for a long time, so maybe you just shouldn't consider me a part of your family anymore, because they are more of a family to me than you ever were."

Again, yeah, offensive language, but I think sometimes you can use words like that to point out how much of a prejudiced piece of crap you think somebody is. Plus, I was really pissed off at them being so hostile about the whole thing - like I'm a black sheep or something because I am friends with people who aren't straight white Christians. So of course I blew up. We haven't spoken since and life is much better without them in it.

[UNTFan23]

Jesse, you might want to think twice before bringing out the skeletons from the closet.

P.S. Can we lock this thread ... quick.

Edited January 1, 2008 by UNTFan23

[UNTX]

Seriously, I agree with UNTFan23. Moderators, please delete this thread ASAP!!!

And Jessie, you might want to reserve your inner-most thoughts and history for those closest to you.

[UNTflyer]

[emmitt01]

That's one thing I'll always love about this board. Anything that cuts to the heart of a matter...or provokes thought...should be locked down or deleted.

[JayDub]

That's one thing I'll always love about this board. Anything that cuts to the heart of a matter...or provokes thought...should be locked down or deleted.

My thoughts exactly. Few things piss me off like the inability to have relevant discussion without people freaking out and asking for a lockdown.

[island eagle]

My thoughts exactly. Few things piss me off like the inability to have relevant discussion without people freaking out and asking for a lockdown.

Racism in all its guises is a complex issue. It's difficult enough to discuss unemotionally even when all the other factors that cloud the issue (economics, cultural differences, etc) aren't thrown into the mix. If we are honest, we all have some racist attitudes or stereotypes. The important thing is to recognize them and understand where they come from.

I am old enough to remember the "white only" drinking fountains, bathrooms, waiting rooms, etc. I know Korean vets who were told that their children couldn't go to the local school because of their skin color. I am happy those sad days are mostly gone.

I'm fortunate to live in a city where black, white, hispanics and asians live side by side and where you can have rich people and poor people living next door to each other. It does promote some degree of tolerance and understanding that you don't always find in some places. It is not perfect by any means and tensions do exist, but at least we don't have the hysteria that you find in some places. But, personally I would much live in this environment than in those "gated communities" where everyone is expected to act and look the same.

The good thing about sports, the military and even many places of employment is that racial stereotypes can become completely meaningless. If someone is shooting at you, or blocking out a blind-side tackler, or stabilizing you in an ER, it doesn't matter what race, creed, political, or sexual orientation they are. All you care about is that they do the job. Whenever I find myself lapsing into stereotypes (of any sort) I try to remember that.

[ntexeagle]

Racism will exist as long as people look different from one another.

It doesn't make any difference if I is color of skin, how tall you are, your eye color or you hair length. We will ALL find a way to seperate those that are different. The question is, how badly do we want to fight that instinct and what will we do about it? It is a battle that can never be one in total but can only be won on a personal basis.

[DeepGreen]

Here's something novel: there are some whites that disgust me and there are hispanics and blacks that disgust me. I cannot stand rap music regardless of the color of the skin of the person spewing the so called lyrics. Can you say the "dumbing down of a generation"?

At the end of the day, we all should be reminded of the powerful images of that fateful morning of 09/11/2001. Americans helping Americans. Whites helping blacks, blacks helping whites. All races helping one another. Americans doing what they do best - helping a fellow human being in times of need.

[MeanGreenZen]

Racism exists because millions of years of evolution have programmed the human animal to favor tribalism. In the past, an easy way to separate between your tribe and other tribes (thus indicating who is safe for you to be around) was by looking at the color of skin. As our society becomes more and more sophisticated, racism will be replaced by more complex tribal indicators such as "does this person shop at WAL-MART or Whole Foods?", "Did this person go to UNT or not even graduate high school," "Does this person go to Church or not believe in God?" Etc... Of course racism still exists, but our society is well on its way towards eliminating it. Tribalism, however, is here to stay.

Edited January 1, 2008 by MG Insurance Pro

[untphd]

I'm going to use actual quotes from people in this, so be warned, it might be offensive to some. Some of the things were offensive to me as well, but I think it's an important discussion, and wouldn't be the same if I just generally referred to statements without quoting them.

Racism has always been a big issue for me, ever since I realized in my teens that my family was a bunch of racist assholes.

I am glad racism has always been a big issue for you as well as all your other issues. I am equally glad you realized that your family was a bunch of racist assholes. I hope in the future you will state your Jerry Springer ideas on another site. UNT has counseling services if you need them and it sounds like you do.

[UNTflyer]

racism - n. 1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

prejudice - n. 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

I think today's culture confuses racism and prejudice.

Does racism exist? In very few black hearts, yes it still does. However, racism has been pretty much stamped out in western cultures.

Does prejudice exist? In the hearts and minds of every single human being, absolutely. The point, however, should be that it doesn't matter what one says or thinks. What matters is how one acts upon their prejudice.

[SilverEagle]

"prejudice - n. 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason."

This also sounds like the definition of phobia......except you would have irrational instead of unfavorable, and "fear" instead of feeling.

[Travis]

"prejudice - n. 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason."

This also sounds like the definition of phobia......except you would have irrational instead of unfavorable, and "fear" instead of feeling.

I think some phobia's are rational... death, rejection, and pain I can think of off the top of my head..

[KingDL1]

I think some phobia's are rational... death, rejection, and pain I can think of off the top of my head..

I have a phobia of the Draw Play, I just wonder how that happened?

[UNTflyer]

I have a phobia of the Draw Play, I just wonder how that happened?

Probably your upbringing. It's not your fault, you just need to attend Draw Play Sensitivity classes in Logan, UT.

[MeanGreenZen]

Giving them another chance is a bad idea. Things completely fell apart before the wedding, because I tried to work things out with them after two big problems:

1) Two gay friends (who were a couple) visited my family with me and were appalled at the discussion leading to the statement, "fags aren't really people".

2) My ex was known to be a problem in advance, because "she's a spic, and spics and niggers are always going to cause problems".

They were not willing to change their attitudes, or even keep their mouths shut about all the kinds of people they don't like.

I didn't want a brawl at the wedding, so I told them that "since there will be plenty of spics, niggers, and fags there, you'd better not come. And they'll be around for a long time, so maybe you just shouldn't consider me a part of your family anymore, because they are more of a family to me than you ever were."

Again, yeah, offensive language, but I think sometimes you can use words like that to point out how much of a prejudiced piece of crap you think somebody is. Plus, I was really pissed off at them being so hostile about the whole thing - like I'm a black sheep or something because I am friends with people who aren't straight white Christians. So of course I blew up. We haven't spoken since and life is much better without them in it.

Is this really about racism? It sounds like you are looking for validation that your parents are awful people. If you are going to keep writing personal posts like this, please stop trying to thinly veil them as having to do with either football or UNT, as those are both topics that interest me and you whining about your life is not.

I'd like to (again) redirect you to some sort of Dr. Phil forum. Or maybe a licensed mental health professional. This isn't the free therapy board, dude. Buy a Larry Winget book and suck it up.

Edited January 1, 2008 by MG Insurance Pro

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

This should moved to the non-UNT sport section.. not in the football one....and not locked.

---The "whites" do not have a monopoly on racism.. I also get tired of those who yell "race" when things don't go their way. The blacks once had a big complaint (when I was in HS and college they were not allowed to go to many of the colleges in Texas (my HS was integrated), it wasn't right.. The youth of today do not really understand what racism was like in the 50's and 60's. "Most of the time" people should just shut up and accept that they just don't always get their way and sometimes people are not treated fairly.... and race often is not an issue at all.

---I hear a lot of non-whites discuss race a lot more that those who are whites.... and often what they are saying is not making much sense. A lot of the problems some have now are more about economic and educational levels, not race. I was talking with a minority young man before class this fall and he was shocked at some of the jobs I had trying in college to make money for an education.... I guess he thought I (and many other like me) was born with money and never had to work to achieve what success I have (college instructor). I lived for several years in a house without electricity (rural Texas).

Edited January 2, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[the real grad88]

This should moved to the non-UNT sport section.. not in the football one....and not locked.

---The "whites" do not have a monopoly on racism.. I also get tired of those who yell "race" when things don't go their way. The blacks once had a big complaint (when I was in HS and college they were not allowed to go to many of the colleges in Texas (my HS was integrated), it wasn't right.. The youth of today do not really understand what racism was like in the 50's and 60's. "Most of the time" people should just shut up and accept that that they just does always get their way and sometimes people are not treated fairly.... and race often is not an issue at all.

---I hear a lot of non-whites discuss race a lot more that those who are whites.... and often what they are saying is not making much sense. A lot of the problems some have now are more about economic and educational levels, not race. I was talking with a minority young man before class this fall and he was shocked at some of the jobs I had trying in college to make money for an education.... I guess he thought I (and many other like me) was born with money and never had to work to achieve what success I have (college instructor). I lived for several years in a house without electricity (rural Texas).

Exactly. I have had many similar experiences. I got an education completely on my own...not one cent from my parents or anyone. I worked 2 jobs while going to school all the way through my masters. Many, many nights with little sleep and working all the time while others were playing and hanging out. My wife and I now provide piano lessons, voice lessons, and extra tutoring for our children to help them move ahead academically and prepare for the future. My 6th grade son reads at a college level because we exposed him to intensive reading opportunties at an early age. We model correct grammer and communication to our children so that they don't talk like the family that I came from (very hick). The reason is that I say all of this is because I too have been accused of being part of the "upper privilaged" because our family lives this way, and those accusers (many of them miniority) are shocked when I tell them that I grew up with no air conditioning and only wood for heat and raising 95% of our food...in houses that most middle class folks would be embarrassed to live in. That's what UNT is all about damn it. People need to take advantage of their opportunities and make their world different if they want to live a different kind of life. What a lot of minorities (and other poor folks) don't understand is that in many ways the professional work will cater to them and move them up as high as they want to climb, if they will just get their education and produce at work! There are now no excuses. It's all about personal choice.