Very Specific Question About Fumble Recovery Possession

[JesseMartin]

I was thinking about this during the Cowboys' game today. Not sure if the NCAA rule is different from the NFL one, so there might be different *correct* answers.

Okay, there's a fumble. Same team recovers. It's the next down.

BUT...when does it become a 1st down? Does an opposing player have to TOUCH it first, or GAIN and then LOSE POSSESSION, when the original team comes back in and recovers? I thought it was a possession-based rule but now that I've thought about it, I'm not completely sure. And again...is it the same in the NFL as it is in the NCAA?

[Bryan316]

In the NFL, I believe a change of possession has to occur to get a new set of downs. The Eagles had possession off of the interception, then fumbled and we gained possession. In the Lions game last week, we fumbled, their guy tried to pick it up and run, only to kick the ball, where our guy fell on it. It was still the same possession, so it was the next down and whatever distance. I figure it's the same in the NCAA, though I'm sure there's some other stipulation or somesuch.

[NTPhiKap99]

It's just like the shot clock in basketball even though it was slapped away unless the other team gains possession the clock doesn't' reset.

[trud1966]

I got another rule question, but not in regard to fumbles.

In regard to the Line of Scrimmage and the Offense, can someone please explain to me what the definition these days is for being "SET". I always understood the "general" idea everyone has to be set with the exception of the quarterback and a guy in motion. But the more football I watch, the more I see what I think everyone is "set", then guys on the O-Line will move a little before finally being set.

Like at what POINT, is the point of no return, like ok NOW YOU CANT MOVE. Maybe I'm not asking the question in a way that makes sense. Basically, WHAT is the line judge/ref looking for?

[JesseMartin]

I wondered that too. And the QB is also not exempt...does anybody remember when Peyton Manning did that trick play, where he got set under center, then called an audible, and while he was calling it, they hiked it to the RB? It was last year. They called him for illegal motion because once the QB is under center, they can't give the ball to somebody else before he gets it. But yeah, people move A LOT. Anybody know the answer to his question?

[UNTflyer]

I believe there is the 1-second guidleine. A lineman must be "set" for one second for there to be a valid snap without an illegal procedure. Therefore, I would logically conclude that once a lineman is "set" for 1 second, then they cannot move until the ball is snapped.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I believe there is the 1-second guidleine. A lineman must be "set" for one second for there to be a valid snap without an illegal procedure. Therefore, I would logically conclude that once a lineman is "set" for 1 second, then they cannot move until the ball is snapped.

I think you exactly right... If remember right the Manning call was wrong... he had put hands on top of the centers rear or something like that and had not put them "under " center. .In fact sometimes the QB walks up behind behind a guard which appears to be behind the center to most and can move around because that would be legal....one nonlineman can be in motion (not forward) when snapped. ..trickery...

---One "trick" play that I have seen quite a bit... but not in NFL very often, is the QB walks up and then takes the ball from the center and none of the linemen move immediately... This was done when there was no defensive guy over center and the field is open for several yards. The defense see only two people move and think someone has jumped offside when in reallity the play is going on... it often works for 5 yards or so before the defense realizes what is happening and reacts. There is usually some code word or action between the center and QB that starts this because of the odd condition beyond center that exists..... it is not a called play usually. usually the Refs are contacted ahead of time that this plays exists so they won't blow the play dead as a offside situation.

They do seem to be allowing more head movement by the center nowdays... in fact they commented on it in a game I saw yesterday.

[UNTflyer]

---One "trick" play that I have seen quite a bit... but not in NFL very often, is the QB walks up and then takes the ball from the center and none of the linemen move immediately...

I saw a high school play on TV where the quarterback walked up to the center and after the line was set yealled "Dammit, that's the WRONG BALL! Give me the ball!"

The center stood up and handed it to the quarterback who then started to walk to the sideline yelling about the "wrong ball". The rest of the line and the receivers stayed still. Once the QB was outside the tackles, he turned and bolted up the field for a touchdown as the secondary just stood and stared.

Best trick play I have ever seen.

*EDIT* In fact, here is the play on YouTube:

Edited December 17, 2007 by UNTflyer

[JesseMartin]

That might even be funnier than the 14? 15? lateral play this year that was all over ESPN.

And the Manning thing...I'm pretty sure it was upheld...does anybody know for sure?

Just thought of this recently...how's this for a trick play...

In a no-huddle offense, the QB starts at one end and gives each player a high-five, slap, word of encouragement, whatever. Then gets to the center and takes the ball and goes for it.

Cheesy, yes, but I think I've seen weirder ideas work.

[runt96]

I saw a high school play on TV where the quarterback walked up to the center and after the line was set yealled "Dammit, that's the WRONG BALL! Give me the ball!"

The center stood up and handed it to the quarterback who then started to walk to the sideline yelling about the "wrong ball". The rest of the line and the receivers stayed still. Once the QB was outside the tackles, he turned and bolted up the field for a touchdown as the secondary just stood and stared.

Best trick play I have ever seen.

*EDIT* In fact, here is the play on YouTube:

I've heard about that one but never seen it. That's incredible.

[greenminer]

Just thought of this recently...how's this for a trick play...

In a no-huddle offense, the QB starts at one end and gives each player a high-five, slap, word of encouragement, whatever. Then gets to the center and takes the ball and goes for it.

I'm not getting this. maybe it's just me. "Takes the ball and goes for it"? I never played organized football past 5 years of age. Can someone tell me what the QB is supposed to interpret that as? Maybe it's some kind of new, advanced terminology for a running route that I am unaware of.

However, it could be twisted into other connotations. But someone here would take that personal.