35k Is Just Right

SilverEagle · December 9, 2007

You GREATLY overestimate the North Texas fanbase. I'm sorry but I'll believe that NT averages 25,000 when I see it. We are still too married to the "make it totally convenient for me, cheap, and a name opponent" mentality to expect that the numbers we saw this year will translate into consistent crowds.

Well this seems to be as good a place as any to seque into the discussion about how to get attendance up.

I have personally been thinking for a long time that a coach with a lot of personality and imagination (high octane offense, gives good pep talks to studends alumni etc) would jump-start things. The two best examples of this theory (that I've observed) were/are Hayden Fry and Todd Dodge. But how does that translate into actual numbers.

The home attendance during the Hayden Fry era was this.

1973-----11,990 (6 home games, one at Texas Stadium)

1974------9,683 (7 home games, one at Texas Stadium, after a co-championship season)

1975-----11,843 (3 home games, one at Texas Stadium vs the future SWC champ Houston)

1976-----11,172* (four home games, one at Texas Stadium) *the year after we beat Tennessee.

1977-----19,599 (four home games, two at Texas Stadium, the SMU game drew 26,097)

1978-----17,683* (six home games, 5 played at Texas Stadium) *the year after posting our best record since 1947

During the Corky Nelson era, we had some very outstanding teams. The 1988 team (nationally ranked) had wins over Texas Tech and Rice (and really Texas too), but our average attendance over 5 home games was 15,319. Our 89 and 90 teams were also nationally ranked and during those two years we had 20,252 for SFA and 22,750 for SMU. But our average for those two years were 14,289 for five games in 89, and 14,783 for 6 home games (bolstered by the 22K SMU game).

We've had some upward spikes in 94 (19K for 4 home games with someone buying a huge block of season tickets) and 97 (19K for four games bolstered by 47K for the A$M game at TS).

In 2003 our average was 18,694 over five home games.

I'm not sure what to make of these numbers, but I still believe that a combination of winning in an entertaining way, with a coach who's good at promoting the program, will get things moving upward again.

But one of the most important pieces is our tradition...or the lack thereof. Todd Dodge can make adjustments in the off season (coaching or otherwise) and he can make speeches all over the place. But I believe that someone or some organization has to work just as hard on CHANGING THE CLUTURE OF APATHY TOWARDS ATHLETICS AT NORTH TEXAS.

UNT Mean Green · December 9, 2007

So do I. I think we should do something similar except not sunken into the ground. Also, instead of the open end, that should be where the athletic center sits. That balcony is going to have an awesome view.

That is the plan for the new stadium. Basically a clone of Gerald Ford but with the Athletic Center/football offices in the 'open endzone'. And the home side will be a small double deck with suites in between. Also, a neat feature will be the 'digital strip signage' or 'scrolling marquee' signs along the concrete facings...similar to Kyle Field and a lot of Major League Baseball stadiums (hope that makes sense). The back of the home side will contain a lot of glass, and will look similar to the back of the Oklahoma Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium...very attractive, but obviously on a much smaller scale. It's going to be one of the nicest small D1 stadiums in the country!

Mean Green Matt · December 9, 2007

Solid point 93-98. My concern has less to do with current capacity than with future capacity. The reason I said 40,000 minimum is it seems that would allow expansion to 60,000 in the future instead of 30,000 to 50,000.
Still, in the end, it could be worse than maxing out at 50,000. Texas Tech, Kansas, Colorado, Iowa State, and Kansas State are all about ~50-55,000.

I agree completely ColoradoEagle, just remember that if we do put a grassy hill in he other endzone, and just have two sidelines equalling 35,000, there are always seats to add where the hill is and the upper decks to get us over 50,000.

STE · December 9, 2007

SMU doesn't have the alumni base and current enrollment that North Texas does, much less the predicted enrollment. NT also hasn't been subject to the death penalty. As far as the basketball arena, we could've had American Airlines Center and it still wouldn't have overcome Vic Trilli.

So true about Vic Trilli...At least they changed the seats from orange to green during that time!
I vote for 40,000 to start, but won't complain if 35K actually happens.

SMU with its enrollment/alumni base, has enough support (theoretically) to fill its stadium. My point is that building a new stadium may temporarily improve our attendance but wins/losses and caliber of opponents is much more important. We won 4 sunbelt titles in a row with a much larger enrollment/aluni base and didnt' come close to an average attendance of 25K

As for the Super Pit – it was around a lot longer than Vic Trili.

I bet our basketball attendance in 89-92 (when I was in school) is very similar to our attendance in say 04-06. However, our enrollment over this time period almost doubled.

Part of our problem is our conference affiliation. Having Navy, SMU or Baylor come every other year is nice but that is typically only one game a season. That’s one of the reasons I support joining the WAC. I think elevating the caliber of conference teams that come to Denton will elevate more interest in the local media and fan base.

Green Mean · December 9, 2007

OK...don't ban me from the board, but I have a confession to make.
I actually really like Gerald J. Ford Stadium, and wish we had something like that too. What a nice looking stadium...SMU just does not deserve it...
Anyway...one of these days we will have a handsome stadium too...

Why doesn't SMU deserve it? Despite getting the death penalty they are trying to make a comeback and if they have the resources to do so then why not? If NT 10% of the alumni support SMU had then we would have already had the new stadium or currently building it. It is what it is in sports and athletics.....put up or shut up.

Bryan316 · December 9, 2007

That is the plan for the new stadium. Basically a clone of Gerald Ford but with the Athletic Center/football offices in the 'open endzone'. And the home side will be a small double deck with suites in between. Also, a neat feature will be the 'digital strip signage' or 'scrolling marquee' signs along the concrete facings...similar to Kyle Field and a lot of Major League Baseball stadiums (hope that makes sense). The back of the home side will contain a lot of glass, and will look similar to the back of the Oklahoma Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium...very attractive, but obviously on a much smaller scale. It's going to be one of the nicest small D1 stadiums in the country!

Is the glass still there on the most current (shown at the Homecoming or Navy game in the AD suite) designs? From a safety and cost standpoint, that would be bad in a tornado or hail storm, and expensive to replace. The digital signs would be pretty slick.

I'd say two 15,000 sides with the South end being the AC and the North End as an open seating/park area that could hold 5,000 or so if it was SRO.

THE CLAW · December 10, 2007

Is the glass still there on the most current (shown at the Homecoming or Navy game in the AD suite) designs?

Does anyone have pictures of this designs? If so could you put them up so we can see? Please.......... :blushing:

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 10, 2007

I have said that I think we should build a stadium with seating no less than 40,000. However I think we are a long ways off from a new stadium.

hickoryhouse · December 10, 2007

Well this seems to be as good a place as any to seque into the discussion about how to get attendance up.
I have personally been thinking for a long time that a coach with a lot of personality and imagination (high octane offense, gives good pep talks to studends alumni etc) would jump-start things. The two best examples of this theory (that I've observed) were/are Hayden Fry and Todd Dodge. But how does that translate into actual numbers.
The home attendance during the Hayden Fry era was this.
1973-----11,990 (6 home games, one at Texas Stadium)
1974------9,683 (7 home games, one at Texas Stadium, after a co-championship season)
1975-----11,843 (3 home games, one at Texas Stadium vs the future SWC champ Houston)
1976-----11,172* (four home games, one at Texas Stadium) *the year after we beat Tennessee.
1977-----19,599 (four home games, two at Texas Stadium, the SMU game drew 26,097)
1978-----17,683* (six home games, 5 played at Texas Stadium) *the year after posting our best record since 1947
During the Corky Nelson era, we had some very outstanding teams. The 1988 team (nationally ranked) had wins over Texas Tech and Rice (and really Texas too), but our average attendance over 5 home games was 15,319. Our 89 and 90 teams were also nationally ranked and during those two years we had 20,252 for SFA and 22,750 for SMU. But our average for those two years were 14,289 for five games in 89, and 14,783 for 6 home games (bolstered by the 22K SMU game).
We've had some upward spikes in 94 (19K for 4 home games with someone buying a huge block of season tickets) and 97 (19K for four games bolstered by 47K for the A$M game at TS).
In 2003 our average was 18,694 over five home games.
I'm not sure what to make of these numbers, but I still believe that a combination of winning in an entertaining way, with a coach who's good at promoting the program, will get things moving upward again.
But one of the most important pieces is our tradition...or the lack thereof. Todd Dodge can make adjustments in the off season (coaching or otherwise) and he can make speeches all over the place. But I believe that someone or some organization has to work just as hard on CHANGING THE CLUTURE OF APATHY TOWARDS ATHLETICS AT NORTH TEXAS.

Put up or shut up is right! This school has spent way to long not caring about it's athletic programs. If we want change, as we all do, and if we want to compete with the big boys, as we all do, then the most important thing that we can do, more so than arguing about stadium size, or coverage packages, or running backs, the most important thing we can do to achieve all of our goals is to figure out how to change the overall apathetic cuture surrounding UNT athletics!!!! At that point we won't have to argue over if 40,000 is to big, we will change that to argue about if 40,000 is big enough!!

FirefightnRick · December 10, 2007

Does anyone have pictures of this designs? If so could you put them up so we can see? Please..........

:ph34r:

Rick

AJR2010OX · December 10, 2007

Put up or shut up is right! This school has spent way to long not caring about it's athletic programs. If we want change, as we all do, and if we want to compete with the big boys, as we all do, then the most important thing that we can do, more so than arguing about stadium size, or coverage packages, or running backs, the most important thing we can do to achieve all of our goals is to figure out how to change the overall apathetic cuture surrounding UNT athletics!!!! At that point we won't have to argue over if 40,000 is to big, we will change that to argue about if 40,000 is big enough!!

Apathy is a direct result of consistent mediocrity throughout the years. You change apathy by winning consistently. Simple as that. Doesnt matter if youre in the Sun Belt, WAC or Big 12- win and they will come. Especially in Dallas, a wine and cheese crowd city. If 40,000 people come and watch a Plano vs SLC regional final game at Texas Stadium, they will sure watch a 10-0 North Texas team who has put up 40 points a game take on Troy/FAU/whoever for the Sun Belt title. You have to build a culture of winning. Also, you need to build a culture of staying the whole game, despite the score. That builds pride.

NT80 · December 10, 2007

That is the plan for the new stadium. Basically a clone of Gerald Ford but with the Athletic Center/football offices in the 'open endzone'. And the home side will be a small double deck with suites in between. Also, a neat feature will be the 'digital strip signage' or 'scrolling marquee' signs along the concrete facings...similar to Kyle Field and a lot of Major League Baseball stadiums (hope that makes sense). The back of the home side will contain a lot of glass, and will look similar to the back of the Oklahoma Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium...very attractive, but obviously on a much smaller scale. It's going to be one of the nicest small D1 stadiums in the country!

Not crazy about the double-decked home side, but the rest sounds interesting. Where did you see or get all this info? I thought that's what we are hiring the architect's to do for us. All-sideline seating should be explored; grass over the north endzone for lawn seating, otherwise it'll stay empty.

December 10, 2007

There really needs to be a hill or stands in the other end zone. Looking at other stadiums, it really looks awful to have a completely open end zone area. Plus, I like it enclosed, so sounds stays in!

Bryan316 · December 11, 2007

Not crazy about the double-decked home side, but the rest sounds interesting. Where did you see or get all this info? I thought that's what we are hiring the architect's to do for us. All-sideline seating should be explored; grass over the north endzone for lawn seating, otherwise it'll stay empty.

It sounds like he's describing the proto from that video and concept sketches.