35k Is Just Right

[Green Mean]

I do not think that once we get this stadium "built" that all of these good conferences are going to say "Wow, look at UNT's new stadium. So what their football team hasn't been very good lately. Lets go ahead and create them a spot in our conference because that stadium is sooo nice". Puh Leez.

Yes you have a point daddy but it sure wont hurt. All we can do is do our part....we cant have a silver spoon and expect to just come to us. If we do our part such as build a new stadium, start winning and have our other programs rising there is no reason why NT will be a nice catch into inviting. To make advances you have to work on it yourself and invest the time, money etc involved. Build it and work at it and all the sweet fruits will come.....guaranteed.

[ColoradoEagle]

40,000 is the minimum. The attendance average this year was over 20,000 playing against four nobodies (in the current landscape of college football, no comment on past or future) and Navy, ending with a 2-8 record. Would a 30,000-35,000 seat stadium work for this exact point in time? Yes. I'm sure Fouts worked for that exact point in time as well. As the school is contemplating putting millions upon millions of dollars into a stadium, they have to look at it as an investment and not as a temporary fix. Does anyone really think we'll be in the same conference in 15 years as Louisiana-Monroe, Florida International, and Florida Atlantic? I mean, if that's the goal, fine...build the 35k stadium. Personally I would be surprised if this school isn't at least on the cusp of being in a BCS conference 15 years from now.

This is the same reason why I don't want the school to run out and throw up a $1 million baseball field so that we can have baseball. Either do it right or don't do it at all.

Edited December 8, 2007 by ColoradoEagle

[gangrene]

I mean, if that's the goal, fine...build the 35k stadium. Personally I would be surprised if this school isn't at least on the cusp of being in a BCS conference 15 years from now.

My hope is that the BCS will be a distant memory in the year 2023.

[runt96]

Where were we 15 years ago? I believe we need at least 35,000 based on our moving to another conference or the SBC improving. It's clear we're in a stagnant state varying a few thousand every year and we need to get the ball rolling for the future and make sure 15 years from now we're not sitting in a 1/2 or 3/4 full 30k seat stadium. If we build a 31k seat stadium and we're selling 15-21k seats we will never get a 40,000 seat stadium

[ColoradoEagle]

Where were we 15 years ago?

1-AA.

[Bryan316]

Now, I didn't do too well in the two basic economics courses, but instead of building at some pie-in-the-sky number to equal projected school enrollment years down the line, shouldn't we build at what we can comfortably fill now and artificially create a demand for more seats? I mean, a lot of you cry about how we need to be "big-time" and all that, so let's "walk like the big dogs" and force the creation of a waiting list that would eventually create the need for the future expansion.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Bryan316

[STE]

Build it and they will come? That’s what SMU said.

We have a bad a$$ basketball arena and that hasn’t attracted recruits or the big conferences or the championships or the fans over the years. We’ve probably only averaged between 2K-3K in attendance over the last 20 years and have probably only won 2-3 conference championships over that time period.

I think the most important ingredient for success is the coach. The facilities are obviously part of the package but the primary factor for attendance is wins/losses. And the most important factor in ensuring more wins than losses is the coach.

Dodge will take us to a new level which will raise attendance and support etc. Once we get there we will have to have a new stadium and new conference to go further.

I don’t have a problem with a 35K seat stadium as long as it is nice (like SMU’s) and has the ability to expand.

[NT80]

40,000 is the minimum. The attendance average this year was over 20,000 playing against four nobodies (in the current landscape of college football, no comment on past or future) and Navy

I would also like a 40K stadium, but $$ may say otherwise.

We only averaged 17,700 including the Navy game (bad wx for WKU really hurt), about 15K without Navy.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Well then you have to ask why would another conference want us?

1. Location

2. Potential

3. Reputation

Probably in that order. Of course, the WAC is the only conference that I know that would be pleased to have us.

[MeanGreen61]

I would also like a 40K stadium, but $$ may say otherwise.

We only averaged 17,700 including the Navy game (bad wx for WKU really hurt), about 15K without Navy.

Average was 20,911 'til the wku game with the smallest crowd being over 18,000.

26,012 Navy

20,479 FAU

18,973 ULM

18,181 Muts

Edited December 9, 2007 by MeanGreen61

[NT80]

1. Location

2. Potential

3. Reputation

Probably in that order. Of course, the WAC is the only conference that I know that would be pleased to have us.

1. Texas, for recruiting

2. DFW media market

3. Large 35K enrollment

4. DFW airport, easy to get here

Conference Offices located in DFW = Southland, CUSA, Big12. Central location.

Edited December 9, 2007 by NT80

[emmitt01]

Average was 20,911 'til the wku game with the smallest crowd being over 18,000.

26,012 Navy

20,479 FAU

18,973 ULM

18,181 Muts

And just how many years will Dodgeball be brand new?

[mad dog]

I personally agree that 35,000 is a good initial goal. To the argument that we can't consistently break the 20,000 attendence threshold, I would submit that you'd see that number a lot higher if the remaining 10,000 seats were any good. But you couldn't pay me to watch an entire game from our end zone seats. I don't think I'd mind sitting there if the end zone bleachers were in the same zip code as the field.

[keith]

I think going from an average of 25,000 to 35,000 will be faster and easier than going from 15,000 to 25,000. We are not to that next plateau (25,000) yet, but we will be. Yes, we had a poor showing for the WKY game, but move that game earlier in the season and we probably would have easily had an average over 20,000 this year.

Keith

[ColoradoEagle]

Build it and they will come? That’s what SMU said.

SMU doesn't have the alumni base and current enrollment that North Texas does, much less the predicted enrollment. NT also hasn't been subject to the death penalty. As far as the basketball arena, we could've had American Airlines Center and it still wouldn't have overcome Vic Trilli.

Edited December 9, 2007 by ColoradoEagle

[UNTflyer]

The attendance average this year was over 20,000 playing against four nobodies

I think it was more like 17,000. The WKyU game really hurt our average.

[ColoradoEagle]

I forgot to put in that I was ignoring the WKU game. Had it been a normal weather day, I'm sure we could have expected at least 15-17,000.

[Mean Green Matt]

So true about Vic Trilli...At least they changed the seats from orange to green during that time!

I vote for 40,000 to start, but won't complain if 35K actually happens.

[NT80]

I think going from an average of 25,000 to 35,000 will be faster and easier than going from 15,000 to 25,000. We are not to that next plateau (25,000) yet, but we will be. Yes, we had a poor showing for the WKY game, but move that game earlier in the season and we probably would have easily had an average over 20,000 this year.

Keith

I don't see us hitting 25-35K in the Sunbelt. However, CUSA membership would help toward that.

[Mean Green 93-98]

In my short history of viewing the legendary stadium threads on this board, I have generally been solidly in the 40,000+ camp. But a couple posts made by Arkstfan back in summer changed my mind, including the following:

I always think of the fiasco the University of Memphis had when they moved from Mid-South Coliseum to the Pyramid in basketball. At the Coliseum they had a 10 year waiting list for tickets. If basketball had a down season or two people held on to their tickets because they knew they'd never get back in when it got good. The Pyramid was large enough to handle the entire waiting list and season ticket holders with a little room left over. They hit a couple rocky seasons and people figured out that they could drop the season tickets and just buy tickets to the games they wanted to see (Louisville and Cincinnati) and could pick the season tickets back up when things got better. They went from averaging around 11,000 in the Coliseum to less than 9,000 in the Pyramid. The loss in not only ticket revenue but donations for ticket priority had the entire athletic department teetering due to massive losses. They finally righted the ship but it was made much harder by over-building.

If we build a stadium that is never more than half full (except for one game a season when our opponent's fans outnumber us 2-1 at home), it will never create the perception that a ticket to a North Texas football game is a hot commodity. If impressing recruits is such a goal in building a large stadium, think of which is more impressive: a massive stadium that seems empty at gametime, or a decent-sized stadium that absolutely rocks during games. An oversized stadium will be to the detriment of the program in the immediate future. Down the line, if demand is sufficient, the higher-ups will be able to charge a lot more for admission, making justification for an expanded stadium much easier.

[GreenAlums]

And just how many years will Dodgeball be brand new?

Emmitt, what kind of goofy question is that?? Dodgeball is "brand new" only one year. Then, Dodgeball turns to success developed on recruitment, proven and successful schemes and leadership. We only need "brand new" one year. The rest will be be the steak, not the sizzle! Grow up!!!!

[ColoradoEagle]

Solid point 93-98. My concern has less to do with current capacity than with future capacity. The reason I said 40,000 minimum is it seems that would allow expansion to 60,000 in the future instead of 30,000 to 50,000.

Still, in the end, it could be worse than maxing out at 50,000. Texas Tech, Kansas, Colorado, Iowa State, and Kansas State are all about ~50-55,000.

Edited December 9, 2007 by ColoradoEagle

[emmitt01]

Emmitt, what kind of goofy question is that?? Dodgeball is "brand new" only one year. Then, Dodgeball turns to success developed on recruitment, proven and successful schemes and leadership. We only need "brand new" one year. The rest will be be the steak, not the sizzle! Grow up!!!!

You GREATLY overestimate the North Texas fanbase. I'm sorry but I'll believe that NT averages 25,000 when I see it. We are still too married to the "make it totally convenient for me, cheap, and a name opponent" mentality to expect that the numbers we saw this year will translate into consistent crowds.

[NCMeanGreen]

OK...don't ban me from the board, but I have a confession to make.

I actually really like Gerald J. Ford Stadium, and wish we had something like that too. What a nice looking stadium...SMU just does not deserve it...

Anyway...one of these days we will have a handsome stadium too...

[UNTflyer]

I actually really like Gerald J. Ford Stadium

So do I. I think we should do something similar except not sunken into the ground. Also, instead of the open end, that should be where the athletic center sits. That balcony is going to have an awesome view.