35k Is Just Right

UNTflyer · December 8, 2007

I'll start the thread that was inevitable...

35k is the right size for UNT at this time. That will put our stadium ahead of SMU and Houston in terms of capacity. What will be critical is building the stadium with good sight lines... the stands need to be close to the field.

Being able to bump that up to 50,000 in the future is exciting for the program, but we will need to average 30k+ before we could spend money on an upper deck.

Cooley · December 8, 2007

Build it and they will come! (as well as a better conference invite)

Mean'n'Green07 · December 8, 2007

I've always liked Amon Carter. The upperdeck gives the feeling of a big time program, but the close-to-the-action lower tier still puts fans in the game. I would like to see UNT do something like that... have 15k stands on each sideline, a 5-7k upper deck, and the athletic center at one of the endzones. The other endzone can be a hill or left open for a future and cheaper stadium expansion. Besides Fouts being to far from the action, I think the sideline section of the stadium looks very high schoolish (each sideline seats around 10k?). By making each lower sideline section 15k would look much more impressive IMHO.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/tcu/g...agc-800x400.jpg

I would love something like that! (If you know how to post images in a post please do)

STE · December 8, 2007

I like the way Colorado, Missouri and SMU have their stadiums. They use an earthen curve where kids/overflow can go to in large games. I hope we use that type of design until we can afford to put in endzone seating.

NT91 · December 8, 2007

I've always liked Amon Carter. The upperdeck gives the feeling of a big time program, but the close-to-the-action lower tier still puts fans in the game. I would like to see UNT do something like that... have 15k stands on each sideline, a 5-7k upper deck, and the athletic center at one of the endzones. The other endzone can be a hill or left open for a future and cheaper stadium expansion. Besides Fouts being to far from the action, I think the sideline section of the stadium looks very high schoolish (each sideline seats around 10k?). By making each lower sideline section 15k would look much more impressive IMHO.
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/tcu/g...agc-800x400.jpg
I would love something like that! (If you know how to post images in a post please do)

Sure is a lot of red in that photo.

PlummMeanGreen · December 8, 2007

I think someone (who obviously did their research) posted this on this subject a few months ago (and I'll liberally parphrase what they posted):

Does UNT want to have the dubious honor of being the only NCAA D1-A school having an enrollment larger than its new footaball stadium's capacity out at the Mean Green Village?

The articles all say between 30-35K, but if we can't do 35K a happy medium of 33K would make us have a larger stadium than several in CUSA I believe. An initial 30K seat stadium sorta' puts us in the company of many D1-A schools I don't think UNT reallly wants to be in the company of.

Whatever we build initially, I don't see expansion in the immediate future because of who we seem to always have to be in conferences with....

....but 40K-50K from the git-go allows us to sell more traveling fan's tickets (and receipts from even one such game could fund a Mean Green minor sport) and that bcause of the kind of Big 12 schools we know Rick V could get on our future schedules. (Anyone out there no longer believe we can't schedule the UT Longhorns anymore)? Well, seems UT helped one of those upstart Florida schools open their new football stadium last September.

Edited December 8, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

STE · December 8, 2007

I think someone (who obviously did their research) posted this on this subject a few months ago (and I'll liberally parphrase what they posted):
Does UNT want to have the dubious honor of being the only NCAA D1-A school having an enrollment larger than its new footaball stadium's capacity out at the Mean Green Village?
The articles all say between 30-35K, but if we can't do 35K a happy medium of 33K would make us have a larger stadium than several in CUSA I believe. An initial 30K seat stadium sorta' puts us in the company of many D1-A schools I don't think UNT reallly wants to be in the company of.
Whatever we build initially, I don't see expansion in the immediate future because of who we seem to always have to be in conferences with....
....but 40K-50K from the git-go allows us to sell more traveling fan's tickets (and receipts from even one such game could fund a Mean Green minor sport) and that bcause of the kind of Big 12 schools we know Rick V could get on our future schedules. (Anyone out there no longer believe we can't schedule the UT Longhorns anymore)? Well, seems UT helped one of those upstart Florida schools open their new football stadium last September.

What about UH and Central Florida?

Aren't their enrollments larger than their staduims?

Edited December 8, 2007 by STE

houstonmeangreen · December 8, 2007

I've always liked Amon Carter. The upperdeck gives the feeling of a big time program, but the close-to-the-action lower tier still puts fans in the game. I would like to see UNT do something like that... have 15k stands on each sideline, a 5-7k upper deck, and the athletic center at one of the endzones. The other endzone can be a hill or left open for a future and cheaper stadium expansion. Besides Fouts being to far from the action, I think the sideline section of the stadium looks very high schoolish (each sideline seats around 10k?). By making each lower sideline section 15k would look much more impressive IMHO.
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/tcu/g...agc-800x400.jpg
I would love something like that! (If you know how to post images in a post please do)

I agree 100%. I think Amon Carter is an excellent stadium and the upper deck gives it a Big Time Program feel. We current have about 10K seats on each side and I think I would build it with 15K on one side and 10K to 12K lower on the other side with a 8 to 10 K deck. That would look great. The suits should be on the top of the 15K side so TV will get the decked side. Please, NO end zone seats and lets get the pitch right on the stands.

PlummMeanGreen · December 8, 2007

What about UH and Central Florida?
Aren't their enrollments larger than their staduims?

By George, STE, you are right. Maybe I misread that poster's thoughts on this subject several a few months ago when it was posted.

BUT ALMOST CERTAIN.......I think we could all easily agree that we will build our stadium as large as its initial funding allows, right?

At any rate, this announcement in all the DFW newspapers today (and yesterday) is the first official shot heard 'round the Mean Green Nation that says this stadium thing is moving foward in Denton.

Outside the Goldfield family of Denton County being "possible" mega-donors, I honestly think our eventual Big Donor(s) will be someone we least expect whose name has probably never even once come up in any discussions we've had on this new stadium topic the last few years.

Edited December 8, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

NT80 · December 8, 2007

35k is the right size for UNT at this time. That will put our stadium ahead of SMU and Houston in terms of capacity.

The DRC indicated 30-35K stadium size. I'd be ok with 35K, would prefer 40K, but it will probably be closer to 30K due to costs. Stadium construction costs have gone way up recently. This from an article about Rutgers coach not going to Michigan:

"Instead of a new contract, Schiano's decision to stay might influence the powers that be to raise money to expand the Rutgers football stadium. The university's Board of Governors this week put off a vote on a stadium expansion proposal after Corzine expressed reservations about floating a $30 million state loan for the project. The addition of 12,000 seats, luxury boxes and a dining club to the Piscataway stadium is expected to cost $120 million. "

Yikes! :blink:

UNTLifer · December 8, 2007

Less than 40,000 seat stadiums

I really like Army's stadium and Sam Boyd at UNLV isn't bad, but I'm a big fan of Nippert Stadium at Cincinnati. I would add more sideline seats and make the endzone seating less with the open end attached to our AC.

MeanGreen61 · December 8, 2007

"Instead of a new contract, Schiano's decision to stay might influence the powers that be to raise money to expand the Rutgers football stadium. The university's Board of Governors this week put off a vote on a stadium expansion proposal after Corzine expressed reservations about floating a $30 million state loan for the project. The addition of 12,000 seats, luxury boxes and a dining club to the Piscataway stadium is expected to cost $120 million. "
Yikes!

Reamember Rutgers is in JERSEY so $100 million will probably be earmarked for kickbacks, payoffs and greasing of the politicos. :rolleyes:

Bryan316 · December 8, 2007

The Alumni/Home/Press Box side needs to face East, and have one of those covers/overhangs like some of the Euro soccer stadiums have.

KingDL1 · December 8, 2007

Nobody builds on the past they build on projections, 40 - 45,000 is the bare minimum we should build. Don't be a fooled by the time the stadium is completed UNT will have an attendance nearing 40.000 students. And 45 - 50,000 students by 2015, so a 30 - 35 thousand seat stadium is retarded. If they are going to develop school spirit and school pride the students alone can fill the stadium. If we start really winning you better believe the alumni will show up in force. So 40,000 - 45,000 seats is a great place to start. if 30,000 is the start just keep Fouts. Stadiums don't make winners.

December 8, 2007

I think someone (who obviously did their research) posted this on this subject a few months ago (and I'll liberally parphrase what they posted):
Does UNT want to have the dubious honor of being the only NCAA D1-A school having an enrollment larger than its new footaball stadium's capacity out at the Mean Green Village?
The articles all say between 30-35K, but if we can't do 35K a happy medium of 33K would make us have a larger stadium than several in CUSA I believe. An initial 30K seat stadium sorta' puts us in the company of many D1-A schools I don't think UNT reallly wants to be in the company of.
Whatever we build initially, I don't see expansion in the immediate future because of who we seem to always have to be in conferences with....
....but 40K-50K from the git-go allows us to sell more traveling fan's tickets (and receipts from even one such game could fund a Mean Green minor sport) and that bcause of the kind of Big 12 schools we know Rick V could get on our future schedules. (Anyone out there no longer believe we can't schedule the UT Longhorns anymore)? Well, seems UT helped one of those upstart Florida schools open their new football stadium last September.

Jim, we'd all love to have that shiny new 50,000 seat stadium from the gitgo but 35,000 is just more practical. We'll have enough difficulty raising the money for a 35,000 seater and I don't have enough time left in life to wait around for the 50.000 one.

Besides, we haven't proven that we need a larger stadium. I know, it's the old chicken and egg syndrome; if we had a 50,000 seat stadium we could attract the teams that we need to fill it but given our history, that's no slam-dunk. Besides, even if you could lure a Texas or Texas A&M (both of which are/will be playing a game in the metroplex) that would be only one game. We cannot draw anywhere near that for our conference games. and those are 2/3 of our home schedule.

I'd wager that in this point in our development, that you could pick any non-BCS conference (or make up your own), make us a member, and we couldn't average 35,000. Now, if we can somehow wangle admission to the Big 12 or SEC, then I'll lead the parade for a 50,000 seat stadium.

untphd · December 8, 2007

Nobody builds on the past they build on projections, 40 - 45,000 is the bare minimum we should build. Don't be a fooled by the time the stadium is completed UNT will have an attendance nearing 40.000 students. And 45 - 50,000 students by 2015, so a 30 - 35 thousand seat stadium is retarded. If they are going to develop school spirit and school pride the students alone can fill the stadium. If we start really winning you better believe the alumni will show up in force. So 40,000 - 45,000 seats is a great place to start. if 30,000 is the start just keep Fouts. Stadiums don't make winners.

Exactly. Just ask any school administrator, who has built a new school complex in the last 10 to 15 years,

how much bigger should it have been built? They will all say it should have been a lot bigger, and it would have

been less expensive to do it from the start.

NCMeanGreen · December 8, 2007

As I have stated multiple times, I really like Rice-Eccles Stadium (Utah), and think something like that would be perfect for us:

http://utahutes.cstv.com/trads/utah-trads-ricestadium.html

UNTflyer · December 8, 2007

We can't get the financial support for a 50k stadium right now. It would practically double the cost of a 35k stadium because of the need for an upper deck.

Some day, guys. But let's get the foundation built and maybe in 10 years talk about expansion... after we move to the MWC.

Green Mean · December 8, 2007

I totally agree that we need to atleast start with a 40,000 seat stadium but I am honestly the type of person that would make a splash and say 50,000 would be best. I am not construction guru but in general, if you build a bigger stadium then yes the cost will be more but it wont be significantly more so it woul be more cost effective in building big now rather than building small now and expanding later. Yes given our past one can make a great case that we dont need something that big but I think in this case we need to create spark and interest. We need to build for the future and with students and alumni steadily growing, there is no reason we cant put 30,000-40,000 seats regularly. Now people are assuming we will still be in the SBC after completion of the stadium and that is possible but I think that stadium would give us invites to the current WAC (which we already have), CUSA, and MWC for sure.

I really want UNT to be a can-do university and change peoples perception of the school and our athletics program. At the same time we need to put a winning product on the field and I am really hopeful that will happen eventually. More and more students coming to UNT are having school pride and sporting the gear so I think it is perfect building something much bigger than 35,000. If we are going to build something something that small then my opinion is staying put at Fouts until you know you can average enough attendance to justify building a 50,000 seat stadium. To me that just makes more sense.

Our basketball arena has 10,000+ and know we can never get near filling that place up but we still have that kind of capacity and its not something that it affects our games IMO....I think its great because with our basketball program on the rise, that capacity will come into excellent use and maybe we will average 7,000-10,000 people a game.

In the end my whole opinion is if you are going to build it then build it right otherwise dont build it at all because in the future it will bite you in the arse.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Green Mean

December 8, 2007

As I have stated multiple times, I really like Rice-Eccles Stadium (Utah), and think something like that would be perfect for us:
http://utahutes.cstv.com/trads/utah-trads-ricestadium.html

I really like Rice-Eccles also but it's too rich for our blood. Remember, it was built primarily with funds from the Winter Olympics.

Daddy Dumpsalot · December 8, 2007

Build it and they will come! (as well as a better conference invite)

We have tried that and look where we are now. Hmmm....might history repeat itself?

Daddy Dumpsalot · December 8, 2007

I totally agree that we need to atleast start with a 40,000 seat stadium but I am honestly the type of person that would make a splash and say 50,000 would be best. I am not construction guru but in general, if you build a bigger stadium then yes the cost will be more but it wont be significantly more so it woul be more cost effective in building big now rather than building small now and expanding later. Yes given our past one can make a great case that we dont need something that big but I think in this case we need to create spark and interest. We need to build for the future and with students and alumni steadily growing, there is no reason we cant put 30,000-40,000 seats regularly. Now people are assuming we will still be in the SBC after completion of the stadium and that is possible but I think that stadium would give us invites to the current WAC (which we already have), CUSA, and MWC for sure.
I really want UNT to be a can-do university and change peoples perception of the school and our athletics program. At the same time we need to put a winning product on the field and I am really hopeful that will happen eventually. More and more students coming to UNT are having school pride and sporting the gear so I think it is perfect building something much bigger than 35,000. If we are going to build something something that small then my opinion is staying put at Fouts until you know you can average enough attendance to justify building a 50,000 seat stadium. To me that just makes more sense.
Our basketball arena has 10,000+ and know we can never get near filling that place up but we still have that kind of capacity and its not something that it affects our games IMO....I think its great because with our basketball program on the rise, that capacity will come into excellent use and maybe we will average 7,000-10,000 people a game.
In the end my whole opinion is if you are going to build it then build it right otherwise dont build it at all because in the future it will bite you in the arse.

I do not think that once we get this stadium "built" that all of these good conferences are going to say "Wow, look at UNT's new stadium. So what their football team hasn't been very good lately. Lets go ahead and create them a spot in our conference because that stadium is sooo nice". Puh Leez.

KingDL1 · December 8, 2007

I do not think that once we get this stadium "built" that all of these good conferences are going to say "Wow, look at UNT's new stadium. So what their football team hasn't been very good lately. Lets go ahead and create them a spot in our conference because that stadium is sooo nice". Puh Leez.

What if we are about to build a stadium as part of a conference change negotiation?

Daddy Dumpsalot · December 8, 2007

What if we are about to build a stadium as part of a conference change negotiation?

Well then you have to ask why would another conference want us?

KingDL1 · December 8, 2007

Well then you have to ask why would another conference want us?

Growth potential large public school in a major market, a recruiting presence in this region, need for more teams in conferences. Most of the conferences that don't have a championship game, rumor has it plan to expand to 12 teams so they can put a conference championship in place. There will likely be some major shifts in the next couple of years.