Don't Mess With Texas

[FirefightnRick]

The guys that shot this woman in the face were merely wanting to rob her of her money and jewelry, which I'm sure that's all they ever do when they first intentionally rob people. But for whatever reason things don't go the way they plan them to and instead go bad, things escalate and it goes from bad to worse. Eventually thieves get more and more bold, the risks grow and someone eventually gets mamed or killed. Who gives a rats ass what minor things they have done in the past? I don't. I don't care at what point in their crime carreer they are at, this man did somebody a favor, mainly the public. Some of you who cry for these two dead lizards need to be a victim sometime and see how it feels. Some of you need to be in a house full of guts and blood and see how it looks, how it smells and hear the cries of the innocent victims left behind simply because some sorry, lazy excuse of human waste needs Christmas money. Anyone who has the gaul to break into a home is wearing a sign on their back that say's "I'LL CUT YOUR THROAT AND NOT THINK TWICE ABOUT IT LATER". There's no grey area for me. A thief who breaks into yours or neighbors' home, the place that is meant to be a safe haven for someone's family, or one who steals your lively hood deserves to die, plain and simple. I'm sick of the auto and home invasion theives.

Good for Mr. Horn.

Rick

Edited December 9, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[Coffee and TV]

The guys that shot this woman in the face were merely wanting to rob her of her money and jewelry, which I'm sure that's all they ever do when they first intentionally rob people. But for whatever reason things don't go the way they plan them to and instead go bad, things escalate and it goes from bad to worse. Eventually thieves get more and more bold, the risks grow and someone eventually gets mamed or killed. Who gives a rats ass what minor things they have done in the past? I don't. I don't care at what point in their crime carreer they are at, this man did somebody a favor, mainly the public. Some of you who cry for these two dead lizards need to be a victim sometime and see how it feels. Some of you need to be in a house full of guts and blood and see how it looks, how it smells and hear the cries of the innocent victims left behind simply because some sorry, lazy excuse of human waste needs Christmas money. Anyone who has the gaul to break into a home is wearing a sign on their back that say's "I'LL CUT YOUR THROAT AND NOT THINK TWICE ABOUT IT LATER". There's no grey area for me. A thief who breaks into yours or neighbors' home, the place that is meant to be a safe haven for someone's family, or one who steals your lively hood deserves to die, plain and simple. I'm sick of the auto and home invasion theives.

Good for Mr. Horn.

Rick

Thanks for reinforcing why I have you on my ignore list.

[Cr1028]

The guys that shot this woman in the face were merely wanting to rob her of her money and jewelry, which I'm sure that's all they ever do when they first intentionally rob people. But for whatever reason things don't go the way they plan them to and instead go bad, things escalate and it goes from bad to worse. Eventually thieves get more and more bold, the risks grow and someone eventually gets mamed or killed. Who gives a rats ass what minor things they have done in the past? I don't. I don't care at what point in their crime carreer they are at, this man did somebody a favor, mainly the public. Some of you who cry for these two dead lizards need to be a victim sometime and see how it feels. Some of you need to be in a house full of guts and blood and see how it looks, how it smells and hear the cries of the innocent victims left behind simply because some sorry, lazy excuse of human waste needs Christmas money. Anyone who has the gaul to break into a home is wearing a sign on their back that say's "I'LL CUT YOUR THROAT AND NOT THINK TWICE ABOUT IT LATER". There's no grey area for me. A thief who breaks into yours or neighbors' home, the place that is meant to be a safe haven for someone's family, or one who steals your lively hood deserves to die, plain and simple. I'm sick of the auto and home invasion theives.

Good for Mr. Horn.

Rick

I agree with you on many things Rick but this is not one of them. Had these guys had a gun in their possession, Joe Horn would be dead. He should have stayed in his home as he was directed to. If all burglars were murderers, the Texas prison system would run out of Jack Kevorkian's special cocktails pretty damn fast.

[greenminer]

I'll cut your throat and not think twice about it later?

It can't be so cut and dry. I'm not defending their (these deceased robbers) acts, but there were cases when I was growing up where guys got stupid on a dare and broke into a house with no intent but to win a bet and make their parents furious. They weren't killers, they didn't become robbers...they were just being stupid. No way they would have ever raised a knife or pointed a gun.

I still haven't heard a valid argument for Mr. Horn.

[Cr1028]

I'll cut your throat and not think twice about it later?

It can't be so cut and dry. I'm not defending their (these deceased robbers) acts, but there were cases when I was growing up where guys got stupid on a dare and broke into a house with no intent but to win a bet and make their parents furious. They weren't killers, they didn't become robbers...they were just being stupid. No way they would have ever raised a knife or pointed a gun.

I still haven't heard a valid argument for Mr. Horn.

True, because if you put a shotgun in the back of the common criminal, you need to do it to the Enron boys and Martha Stewart too.

[greenminer]

True, because if you put a shotgun in the back of the common criminal, you need to do it to the Enron boys and Martha Stewart too.

I wasn't trying to make a case for any general criminal. This is about people that get into your house with the intent to steal.

[KingDL1]

I agree with you on many things Rick but this is not one of them. Had these guys had a gun in their possession, Joe Horn would be dead. He should have stayed in his home as he was directed to. If all burglars were murderers, the Texas prison system would run out of Jack Kevorkian's special cocktails pretty damn fast.

You really have no clue what it is to watch a crime like this go down and knowing they are about to get away. I have seen many get away, and witnessed a few. My parents house was broken in when I was in High school, I can not tell you how bad my home felt violated, my mom was freaked out for years and she looked around at night like they might come back. Mr. Horn stood up and made sure it did not happen in his neighborhood. My neighborhood is part of my home and those criminals were bold enough to violate the security of that neighborhood in broad daylight, to me thats the same as doing it to my house. If you listen to the full 8 minutes you would know more of what Mr Horn went through. If they had guns he still would have got them, I am sure he surprised them. He is more then welcome in my neighborhood. A man that knows how to handle a shotgun definitely has the edge, in the picture he appears to be a hunter. I am sure he was watching his own ass as well, don't underestimate old hunters.

I only wish there were more people like Mr. Horn, you would really see the crime rate drop.

[FirefightnRick]

Thanks for reinforcing why I have you on my ignore list.

Your ignore button ain't cuttin it!

Rick

Edited December 10, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[KingDL1]

True, because if you put a shotgun in the back of the common criminal, you need to do it to the Enron boys and Martha Stewart too.

Are you kidding me get real, don't try to trivialize violent crime to white collar crime. If you don't know the difference you really need help.

[Censored by Laurie]

Are you kidding me get real, don't try to trivialize violent crime to white collar crime. If you don't know the difference you really need help.

The only violent crime committed was the one by Mr. Horn...these robbers made off with some electronics and jewlery and in your opinion their death is justified...yet the Enron folk stole millions and ruined the lives of thousands of employees and you think the comparrison is trivial?

[KingDL1]

The only violent crime committed was the one by Mr. Horn...these robbers made off with some electronics and jewlery and in your opinion their death is justified...yet the Enron folk stole millions and ruined the lives of thousands of employees and you think the comparrison is trivial?

Not that the Enron folk did not need to be shot, but you need to realize these were grown men bold enough to break in to a house in the middle of the afternoon in broad daylight. That is a pretty violent act to start with, what do you think their plan was if they accidentally surprised someone in the house? Run like school girls? Fact is if they were willing in to go to a neighborhood and break in to a house in under these conditions they likely would have hurt someone to get away. You would be very naive to give the adult criminal the benefit of the doubt.

[Cr1028]

Not that the Enron folk did not need to be shot, but you need to realize these were grown men bold enough to break in to a house in the middle of the afternoon in broad daylight. That is a pretty violent act to start with, what do you think their plan was if they accidentally surprised someone in the house? Run like school girls? Fact is if they were willing in to go to a neighborhood and break in to a house in under these conditions they likely would have hurt someone to get away. You would be very naive to give the adult criminal the benefit of the doubt.

If this is the way you think then the next time you or anyone you know attempts to drive anywhere under the influence of alcohol, you make sure they have a shotgun barrell in there back. A drunk driver is a FAR more dangerous criminal than a burglar, these were not armed robbers, they were burglars, Horn was the only one armed.

Also, you want to talk about feeling violated? While using the toilet in a GAB restroom on the UNT campus, some (expletive) decided to stare at me through a peep hole and beat off. You think I didn't feel violated or pissed? I wanted to smash the guy's head on the concrete but I wasn't willing to get kicked out of school over it. I thought of the consequences first. I went the educated route and informed the UNT PD, there are now steel plates on the bathroom stall partitions. If I had taken the law in my own hands I could've been kicked out of school and been given a criminal record. Would failing to achieve me degree and having a criminal record make me a hero because I pummeled some punk? I sure don't think so.

[Eagle1855]

True, because if you put a shotgun in the back of the common criminal, you need to do it to the Enron boys and Martha Stewart too.

actually, im not necessarily opposed to that, in principle, either...

the facts of this case are still yet to be determined... what I do know is that I am sick and tired of people like Quanell X coming out the woodwork to defend CRIMINALS who were in this country ILLEGALLY- who had a history of committing crimes in this country- on the sole basis of RACE.

Big f-n YAWN.

I don't know whether or not Horn was justified in his actions, but I do know those idiots would probably still be alive had they not been breaking into people's homes. Betcha don't see a lot of people trying to break into that neighborhood anymore...

Edited December 10, 2007 by Eagle1855

[KingDL1]

If this is the way you think then the next time you or anyone you know attempts to drive anywhere under the influence of alcohol, you make sure they have a shotgun barrell in there back. A drunk driver is a FAR more dangerous criminal than a burglar, these were not armed robbers, they were burglars, Horn was the only one armed.

Also, you want to talk about feeling violated? While using the toilet in a GAB restroom on the UNT campus, some (expletive) decided to stare at me through a peep hole and beat off. You think I didn't feel violated or pissed? I wanted to smash the guy's head on the concrete but I wasn't willing to get kicked out of school over it. I thought of the consequences first. I went the educated route and informed the UNT PD, there are now steel plates on the bathroom stall partitions. If I had taken the law in my own hands I could've been kicked out of school and been given a criminal record. Would failing to achieve me degree and having a criminal record make me a hero because I pummeled some punk? I sure don't think so.

Wow, not a real comparison. Maybe try again.

You made your determination after you know the facts, but being in Mr. Horn position you tend to get very wired. All he knew was two grown men were breaking into his neighbors house. By the way burglars surprised have hurt and killed plenty of people.

But glad to hear you got the Glory Hole closed, still the public bathroom is not what most people would call their home.

[Cr1028]

Wow, not a real comparison. Maybe try again.

You made your determination after you know the facts, but being in Mr. Horn position you tend to get very wired. All he knew was two grown men were breaking into his neighbors house. By the way burglars surprised have hurt and killed plenty of people.

But glad to hear you got the Glory Hole closed, still the public bathroom is not what most people would call their home.

The last sentence was rude but I won't hold it against you. I just don't see how you can say he was in danger or would've surprised the burglars if he had stayed in his house looking through the window and talking to the 911 operator. They didn't attempt to enter his house. He wanted to kill 2 guys for breaking into a neighbor's house that he barely knew. Please listen to the 911 call, he is begging the 911 operator to dare him or give him permission to shoot these guys. He wanted to kill these guys plain and simple, if you are chasing someone, it is not protecting yourself.

[KingDL1]

The last sentence was rude but I won't hold it against you. I just don't see how you can say he was in danger or would've surprised the burglars if he had stayed in his house looking through the window and talking to the 911 operator. They didn't attempt to enter his house. He wanted to kill 2 guys for breaking into a neighbor's house that he barely knew. Please listen to the 911 call, he is begging the 911 operator to dare him or give him permission to shoot these guys. He wanted to kill these guys plain and simple, if you are chasing someone, it is not protecting yourself.

I reread the line it was worse then I meant, I was attempting some tongue and cheek humor. I am glad the bathroom is fixed.

What I am saying is the news paper is full of articles how someone walked in/woke up while/was up stairs while burglars were in a house and things went bad. Innocent people were severely injured or killed. Please don't assume what was on these criminals minds was anything but bad, Mr. Horn may have saved someone's life. The whole tape is eight minutes long and it probably took Mr.Horn a minute or two to realize what was happening and call 911. Which I guarantee you seemed like an eternity to Mr. Horn. But I have been on the phone in a similar situation you get very wired, and upset. Mr Horn reacted differently then some but I know the feeling that something has to be done and if I don't do it no-one will, he did it. He waited until they were leaving and felt they were getting away. Don't take his chatter wrong he was wound up and talking himself into doing something. Serves the criminals right, would you have a different opinion if they while in the house these burglars had killed his neighbor? No one forced these crooks to break in to the house, but at that point they gave up all rights.

[Cr1028]

Serves the criminals right, would you have a different opinion if they while in the house these burglars had killed his neighbor?

I most certainly would. If they had killed someone, they deserved to die and would have been prosecuted as such. I understand your side of it where burglaries turn dangerous if the criminals are spooked. My only point is that they were not in his house for him to spook. He exited his house to shoot these men. I'm not defending the criminals, all I am saying is that they didn't deserve a death sentence for the crimes they had committed to that point.

Something to add, what if Horn in all of his fear had gunned down the street clothed detective that saw the whole thing thinking he was a getaway driver? Or, what if he'd missed and stray buckshot had hit a child outside playing or an elderly person working in their garden?

Police are paid and trained to do this work. It is my firm belief that if these guys are not in his house, he should leave the crimefighting to the police.

[KingDL1]

Both men were hit by shotgun blasts after entering Joe Horn's front yard

I have have to say after reading this article Mr. Horn gave these illegal immigrants from Colombia the opportunity to stop, witnessed by the Officer. Actually the whole thing is pretty wild, but being they ran at him on his own property there is no way this gets past the Grand Jury.

When I caught that guy breaking in to my car I yelled, "freeze or I will blow you F'ing head off." If he had ran at me or moved his hands in anyway that were not up in the air I would killed him. But in my case he froze, and the police came and took him away. I had my duck ammo in my 12 gauge, 3 inch magnums I think they were #2 shot , so he was the only one that would been in mortal danger. After about 50 yards the shot would do very little.

That was the second time my car had been broken into in my front yard in a year and I had enough. I think it was the same guy, and I have never had any trouble since.

[untbowler]

yup these were just crooks doing a small job for the first time, the following from the above article tells us what we are dealing with.

Both were illegal immigrants from Colombia, authorities said. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after serving time for possession with intent to distribute cocaine. Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said.

"Both were illegal immigrants from Colombia, authorities said. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after serving time for possession with intent to distribute cocaine. Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said."

Yep looks to me like these were small time crooks.

[MeanGreenEngineer]

I have a couple of things to say.

First, I strongly believe that the first amendment safe guards the others, I own enough weapons to make my neighbors worried, and I am constantly preaching about the benefits of fire arm ownership, but even I think this is a little sketchy. If I hadn't heard the phone call, I would be more likely to think that the guy was worried that they might come back to his house, where his daughter and grand daughter lived, but I did hear the phone call. And he sounded like he really, REALLY wanted to shoot two robbers, regardless of wether or not they were a threat to him. And really, in Texas, thats the main criteria. Certain things are considered to be an imminent threat to your life, someone being in your house is one of those. Someone being in your neighbors house, unless you are asked to watch over it, isn't. Also, Horn knew that his neighbors were on vacation, so it's not like he thought there was a threat to their life. That being said, I am not sure he should go to jail, but the legislature or judiciary probably need to define this some how.

Second, all you people who keep harping on ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are creepy xenophobes. Implying that it is more ok to shoot these guys because they are illegal immigrants is just a half creepy step away from implying it's ok to shoot illegal immigrants on sight. Something also tells me there wouldn't be this mindset if they had been illegal irish.

[KingDL1]

I have a couple of things to say.

First, I strongly believe that the first amendment safe guards the others, I own enough weapons to make my neighbors worried, and I am constantly preaching about the benefits of fire arm ownership, but even I think this is a little sketchy. If I hadn't heard the phone call, I would be more likely to think that the guy was worried that they might come back to his house, where his daughter and grand daughter lived, but I did hear the phone call. And he sounded like he really, REALLY wanted to shoot two robbers, regardless of wether or not they were a threat to him. And really, in Texas, thats the main criteria. Certain things are considered to be an imminent threat to your life, someone being in your house is one of those. Someone being in your neighbors house, unless you are asked to watch over it, isn't. Also, Horn knew that his neighbors were on vacation, so it's not like he thought there was a threat to their life. That being said, I am not sure he should go to jail, but the legislature or judiciary probably need to define this some how.

Second, all you people who keep harping on ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are creepy xenophobes. Implying that it is more ok to shoot these guys because they are illegal immigrants is just a half creepy step away from implying it's ok to shoot illegal immigrants on sight. Something also tells me there wouldn't be this mindset if they had been illegal irish.

Two things if you read the article they ran at him on his property and two it looks like they have ties to Columbian organized crime, also to point out that illegal immigrants are tied to much more crime then the media likes to represent. A few months ago it was reported that more then 25% of the people waiting trial for violent crimes in Lew Sterrett were illegal immigrants. Not to say because they are illegal immigrants it is more OK to shoot them.

[meangreendork]

Plain and simple, had these guys not been engaging in criminal activity, they would more than likely still be breathing. Did they deserve to be shot and killed? No, but that's the risk that they take when crossing into private property and like it or not, they kind of forfeit the "don't shoot me I'm harmless" card because the victims of a forced entry don't know if it's an intent to just steal a DVD player or kill the entire family. Oftentimes, the intents of an entry aren't known until the police and the coroner arrive. It's really their own ill-judgment that caused this.

For Horn, what he did wasn't really the best decision. Mind you, he sounded a little eager to "get some", but not everyone handles situations like this the same way. That kind of response to a situation like this, for Horn, thankfully, came out in his favor. The burglars weren't armed and I'll go with the law of numbers here, that they would've had him outgunned and no one was on their way to help them out. Luckily for him, he's gonna go without a scratch on this.

Should he have waited for the authorities? The answer is "yes" if the police response time was going to be instant and that his home wasn't next. The answer is also, "no" because they were on his property and he doesn't know their intentions. Unfortunately, the way laws are set up for the average citizen responding to something like this almost force the citizen to kill the perpetrator to protect him/her from a lawsuit by the perpetrator. You either let the perpetrator walk all over you or you kill the guy because if you don't, then it's going to be your tail for something like the citizen's arrest version of police brutality.

Grey area all the way as to what to do with Horn and how to handle this in the Legislative branch.

[FirefightnRick]

"Both were illegal immigrants from Colombia, authorities said. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after serving time for possession with intent to distribute cocaine. Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said."

Strike One: Enters our country illegally.

Strike Two: Possessing/selling illegal drugs then goes to jail for it and then is deported all at taxpayers expense.

Strike Three: Enters our country illegally..again.

Strike Four: Continues feeding off this country with his crime spree by breaking into homes and stealing from them(along with possible organized crime connections), and when confronted by a man with a shotgun felt bold enough to run towards him?

That's four strikes too many for me. Wake up America!

And though not related other than what I said earlier about home invasions and the ever increasing violence against homeowners right here in our own communities:

NRH Elderly woman shot dead after answering a knock at her front door Monday night.

Rick

Edited December 12, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[Censored by Laurie]

Strike One: Enters our country illegally.

Strike Two: Possessing/selling illegal drugs then goes to jail for it and then is deported all at taxpayers expense.

Strike Three: Enters our country illegally..again.

Strike Four: Continues feeding off this country with his crime spree by breaking into homes and stealing from them(along with possible organized crime connections), and when confronted by a man with a shotgun felt bold enough to run towards him?

That's four strikes too many for me. Wake up America!

And though not related other than what I said earlier about home invasions and the ever increasing violence against homeowners right here in our own communities:

NRH Elderly woman shot dead after answering a knock at her front door Monday night.

Rick

None of your "four strikes" are the issue. Joe Horn (possible former Saints reciever?) didn't ask for proof of residency...he didn't find evidence of cocaine...and he didn't analyze their tats and come to the conclusion that they were members of a Bogota cartel...you're using the same flawed reasoning that our government uses in indefinently detaining any Muslim they run across for suspected "terrorism"...the possibility that another crime will be committed is not a crime in and of itself.

Mr. Horn took not just the law into his own hands, but the entire justice system...and you cannot have a civilized society with this sort of Old West justice mentaliy. I'm not for the death penelty in any situation, but even the most ardent supporters that I've come across wouldn't say that buglary would fall under the heading of capital crime.

And before I read the most ridiculous "I'm defending the actions of criminals" retort...let me head you off...I'M NOT...and our world is just that little bit safer b/c these two men are out of it...but it would be even safer if Horn was where he should be as well, behind bars.

[Censored by Laurie]

"Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb."

Oh yeah...and does somebody want to explain the physics of this to me?