Cool Usa Coaches Poll Thingy

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Some pretty heady stuff. FAU's Schnellenberger ranked Missouri #4 and Oklahoma #7 even though the Sooners beat the Tigers twice! Wow.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/graphics/co..._2007/flash.htm

You can see which coaches, perhaps, have grduges against other coaches. Examples:

Oklahoma's Bob Stoops ranking LSU #6...uh, still thinking about the two losses to Miles when he was at OSU, Bob...or was the the 2003 Sugar Bowl loss to the Tigers?

Oregon's Mike Bellotti pulls a Schnellenberger and ranks OU #8 and Missouri #5...gee, Coach, the Pac-10 official handing you the Oregon-OU game last year wasn't enough?

Wisconsin's Bret Bielema puts Southern Cal at #7...behind Kansas? Woah, there chief. You eat cheese, you don't smoke it.

Bobby Bowden ranks Oklahoma #10 and Missouri #6...gee, losing three Orange Bowls and having an 0-4 record against the Sooners really sticks in your craw, eh coach. Or, was it the Spurrier/Stoops tandem at Florida that comes to mind when you vote?

Clemson's Tommy Bowden follows in dad's footsteps, ranking Missouri #5 and Oklahoma #7.

Houston/Baylor's Art Briles...hmmm, already brown-nosing his future Big 12 colleagues? Oklahoma #2, Missouri #3...one-loss Ohio State #4?

Texas' Mack Brown has love for his fellow Big 12 bretheren, voting Oklahoma #3 and Kansas #4. Missouri, despite beating Kansas, is #8 according to Mack.

UAB's Neil Callaway also does the Kansas before Missouri switch, ranking the Jayhawks #6 and Missouri #9.

Miami's Randy Cristobal smokes the stong stuff before he casts his final ballot which shows one-loss Ohio State #6 behind two-loss teams LSU #1, Oklahoma #2, Missouri #3, and Georgia #4. He also puts Kansas in front of Ohio State at #4. Well, it is Miami...no telling how strong the street stuff is down there.

Michigan State's Mark Dantonio puts two three-loss teams in the Top 10 with Florida #7 and Illinois #9. Out of the Top 10 for the Spartan coach are Missouri at #12 and Kansas #13.

North Carolina's Butch Davis is unimpressed with Ohio State's one-loss season, ranking them #3 behind LSU #1 and Southern Cal #2.

Unemployed Dennis Francione puts Hawaii at...#22? Guess his days at non-BCS New Mexico and TCU didn't put a soft spot in his heart for the underdog.

Eastern Michigan's Jeff Genyk, arguably the most unknown coach in the nation, throws Kansas completey out of the Top 10, showng them at #11.

Wyoming's Joe Glenn must have cabin fever early as he ranks one-loss Ohio State #3, LSU #1 and Oklahoma #2. To complete his battiness, he throws one-loss Kansas down to #11 and ranks three-loss Florida #8 just ahead of two-loss Missouri at #9.

Colorado's Dan Hawkins, not far geographically from Joe Glenn, ranks the Top Three the same as the Wyoming coach and puts three-loss Florida at #8, just ahead of Southern Cal at #9. Hawaii...#14 to former non-BCS coach Hawkins...hey, this is Big 12 football, brother...if you can't hack it, go play intermurals, right?

Fresno State's Pat Hill has always been his own man and proves it again by ranking one-loss Ohio State #4...behind LSU #1, Southern Cal #2, and Oklahoma #3. He does take up for the non-BCS little guy, and put Hawaii #5.

Louisville's Steve Kragthorpe, former Tulsa coach, is thoroughly unimpressed with Oklahoma, ranking them #8. He also joins the legion of former non-BCS coaches to not vote for Hawaii in the Top 10. He puts the undefeated Warriors at #12.

Texas Tech's quirky Mike Leach was hoping for an Ohio State-Georgia match-up putting the Buckeyes at #1 and the Bulldogs at #2. He then puts the teams of his former Oklahoma coaching staff colleagues Mark Mangino and Bob Stoops at #3 and #4 respectively. He join Bob Stoop's Les Miles/LSU-hating and ranks the Bayou Bengals #5. The spread offense guru has no love for fellow spread offense disciple June Jones, notching his Hawaii sqaud at #17

New Mexico's Rocky Long doesn't believe West Virginia is a Top 10 school, throwing them down to #11.

LSU's Les Miles chooses Ohio State #2 to face his #1 LSU Tigers. He then plays SEC homer ranking Georgia #3, three-loss Florida #7, and four-loss Tennessee #13. He also breaks ranks from almost every other coach in the poll, putting four-loss teams Auburn and Arkansas in the Top 15 at #14 and #15 respectively. Les understands the computer element very well.

New Mexico State's mad scientist/head coach Hal Mumme ranks Hawaii #1, giving the undefeated team their only #1 vote. Yes, the Aggies are our rival, but there top guy walks the walk for his fellow non-BCS school. Viva Mumme!

New Mississippi coach Houston Nutt outdoes everyone by putting three-loss Florida at #5. He also adds himself to the list of former non-BCS school coaches who doesn't include Hawaii in the Top 10, ranking the Warriors #11.

TCU's Gary Patterson, who would no doubt be squaking about the unfairness of the BCS if his Horned Frogs were undefeated, ranks Hawaii #11. He also goes off the deep end by not ranking Wisconsin in the Top 25.

Boise State's Chris Peterson, no longer the Cinderella everybody loves, puts his own team in the Top 15 at #14. Despite all the talk of 2006's undefeated Boise squad deserving some national title consideration, Peterson puts Hawaii just outside the Top 5 at #6. That second loss of the season hurt, didn't it Chris?

FAU's Howard Schnellenberger does the obvious, right? He puts the two one-loss teams in the championship game with Ohio State #1 and Kansas #2. He puts undefeated Hawaii #3. Well, at least he comes closer than most. Gee, I wonder if FAU had been undefeated would he have still considered two one-loss teams more worthy...nah. He does rank Boise #10, even better than their own coach ranked them. Somewhere along the line, Southern Cal must have rankled the Captain Kangaroo twin as he puts the Trojans down for #12.

South Carolina's Steve Spurrier's ballot is noteworthy in that he gives his former defensive coordinator Bob Stoops one of the two first place votes. The Old Ball Coach had Stoops Sooners playing LSU in the title game, then ranked Virginia Tech #3, Georgia #4...and Ohio State #5. Kansas is #11 to Smilin' Steve. He gives Arizona State one of their few Top 10 voting, notching them at #7.

Middle Tennessee's Rick Stockstill surely has some love for a fellow non-BCS school, right? Wrong. Stockstill puts Hawaii at #14.

Oklahoma's Bob Stoops mimicks nemesis Les Miles, voting his Sooners #1, Ohio State #2, the propping fellow Big 12 schools Missouri at #3 and Kansas #4. He pulls Texas all the way up to #13, in front of Florida and Arkansas, #14 and #15. He also is one of the coaches to include Texas Tech putting the Red Raiders #20 in front of both Auburn #22 and Arkansas #23. Missing from Bob Stoops Top 25? Boise State. Hey, Bob...just have your AD schedule Boise State for a regular season game...you know, just to settle your score on the field...last year's Fiesta Bowl notwithstanding.

Auburn's Tommy Tuberville, perhaps remembering his undefeated Tiger team of 2004 being left outside the title picture puts Hawaii in the Top 5 at #4. He's also one of 13 coaches who would have put Oklahoma in the title game, perhaps forgetting that it was an Oklahoma squad that was chosen over his Auburn squad to be sacrificed to USC in 2004.

Notre Dame Charlie Weis is one of seven coaches who voted to put Georgia in the national title game.

Having Hawaii in the Top 10- Larry Blakeney at #7, Jeff Bower #8, Art Briles #10, Bill Callahan #6, Neil Callaway #8, Randy Cristobal #10, Sylvester Croom #7, Bill Cubit #9, Mark Dantonio #8, Bill Doba #8, Randy Edsall #8, Phil Fulmer #10, Jeff Genyk #7, Rocky Long #8, Sonny Lubick #7, Bill Lynch #10, Doug Martin #8, Les Miles #9, Shane Montgomery #8, Joe Novak #10, Chris Peterson #6, Mark Richt #10, Rich Rodriguez #9, Mark Synder #10, Frank Solich #10, Steve Spurrier #10, Bob Stoops #10, Jeff Tedford #10, Dick Tomey #7, Charlie Weis #8, Tyrone Willingham #10, Ron Zook #10

Having Hawaii in the Top 5 - Lloyd Carr at #5, Joe Glenn #5, Pat Hill #5, Hal Mumme #1, George O'Leary #5, Howard Schnellenberger #3, Tommy Tuberville #4

Notably absent on some ballots:

Bobby Bowden does not include Tennessee, but does throw in Wake Forest.

Mack Brown joins Bobby Bowden in excluding Tennessee from the Top 25, opting instead for Oregon State.

Western Michigan's Bill Cubit has Tennessee's back, though. He drops Texas out of his Top 25. In the Top 25 for Cubit? Tulsa...but not the Central Florida squad that just pounded the Golden Hurricane in the C-USA title game. Um...nevermind. This guy has issues that go beyound discussion here.

Washington State's Bill Doba does the unthinkable and takes both Wisconsin and[i/] Texas out of the Top 25. Oregon State and Air Force are more worthy choices for the unemployed Doba.

Indiana's Bill Lynch is a Big Ten homer to be sure. He tosses Top 25 teams BYU, Boise State, and South Florida. He votes in Big Ten mates Michigan and Penn State, and throws a bone to Oregon State.

New Mexico State's Hal Mumme casts his lot with the Tennessee-hating faction, throwing the Vols under the bus in favor of Texas Tech.

TCU's Gary Patterson tosses #15 Wisconsin completely out of his poll, along with #24 Arkansas. He replaces them with Penn State and Oregon State.

Oregon State's Mike Riley joins the coaches who vote out Tennessee and opts for Texas Tech instead.

Washington's Tyrone Willingham is the only coach to not put a Top 15 team in the Top 25. Tyrone gives the ax to Boston College and their 10-3 season. Oregon State gets his nod instead.

Edited December 4, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[GoMeanGreen1999]

The Hardline was discussing this yesturday - how in the world does a coach rank OU behind Missou when they beat them twice? I think four coaches did that. They need to take the Coaches' Poll out of the BCS because so many of them pay very little attention to it.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I'm not sure they should take the Coaches Poll out. But, I do think they should rethink who votes in it.

If I ran it, no coaches whose schools finished in the Top 25 the previous year would be able to vote in it. That way, the normal players would not have a say in the final poll - but, those they played and beat would. That way, you'd cut out the Les Miles/Bob Stoops-type shenanigans.

I bet you'd see less scores being run up on people in this type of system as well

[StealthEagle84]

The Hardline was discussing this yesturday - how in the world does a coach rank OU behind Missou when they beat them twice? I think four coaches did that. They need to take the Coaches' Poll out of the BCS because so many of them pay very little attention to it.

And coaches have an obvious bias towards their team, conference, region, etc. I agree, the coaches poll is a joke. And on top of that, they don't have time to notice, outside of their own conference, how good other teams are. They are too busy with their own team in practices, film, games, recruiting etc. They don't have time to watch game film on other teams and therefore have to rely on box scores. The coaches poll should go.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Also, to me this shows that coaches of non-BCS schools don't put their money where their mouth is. Only five non-BCS coach put undefeated Hawaii in the Top 5.

But, you know if their non-BCS squad was undefeated, they be whining about a title spot.

You can also see that many former non-BCS coaches seem to forget who gave them their humble starts.

Typical.

[forevereagle]

TFLF, you make an excellent point, but you could even argue to take it even farther. No coach in a BCS Conference as well as previous year top 25. This would also keep the other schools in those conferences from giving a boost to their conference to make their team look better (see Michigan State voting Illinois). This would definately put a little more respect in the BCS. Don't needlessly blow out a school that might hurt you later with a vote.

Edited December 4, 2007 by forevereagle

[yyz28]

Also, to me this shows that coaches of non-BCS schools don't put their money where their mouth is. Only five non-BCS coach put undefeated Hawaii in the Top 5.

SO true. Good post!

[Cr1028]

Miami's Randy Cristobal smokes the stong stuff before he casts his final ballot which shows one-loss Ohio State #6 behind two-loss teams LSU #1, Oklahoma #2, Missouri #3, and Georgia #4. He also puts Kansas in front of Ohio State at #4. Well, it is Miami...no telling how strong the street stuff is down there.

Great stuff throughout but I'm confused on this one. Did you mean Mario Cristobal of FIU or Randy Shannon of Miami?

[JesseMartin]

F--k it. Put OU as #1 and Mizzou as #2 and try for a 3-peat...

[LongJim]

How would you list the Top 10, Finch?

[LongJim]

How would you list the Top 10, Finch?

My vote would have been:

1. LSU

2. Oklahoma

3. USC

4. Ohio State

5. Georgia

6. Missouri

7. Virginia Tech

8. Kansas

9. Hawaii

10. West Virginia

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Great stuff throughout but I'm confused on this one. Did you mean Mario Cristobal of FIU or Randy Shannon of Miami?

Good point...I get my former Miami players-turned-crappy coaches mixed up.

My Top 10? Well, first of all, I'm against the BCS and prefer a playoff format. But, if I had a Top 10 vote, I'd reward the winners, of course:

1. Hawaii

2. Ohio State (3-0 versus Top 25 opponents, loss to unranked)

3. Kansas (1-1, loss to #3)

4. LSU (6-1, losses #17 and unranked)

5. Southern Cal (3-1, losses #5 and unranked)

6. West Virginia (3-1, losses to #18 and unranked)

7. Virginia Tech (3-2, losses #2 and #2)

8. Georgia (4-0, lossess to unranked and unranked)

9. Oklahoma (3-0, losses to unranked and unranked)

10. Missouri (3-2, losses to #6 and #9)

11. Arizona State (1-2, losses to #4 and #11)

12. BYU (0-1, loss to #13 and unranked)

13. Boise State (0-1, losses to #14 and unranked)

If I were voting, I'd take into account the Top 25 teams played and beaten. Then, I'd look at the rank of the teams lost to.

Oklahoma and Missouri create a special situation in that they played each other twice. In reality my 7-10 could be in any order as long as OU is ahead of Missouri.

It's hard to slight LSU because they played seven team ranked in the Top 25. However, their loss to an underachieving Arkansas team was ridiculous. Otherwise, they are my #2 by virtue of playing the toughest schedule and having to losses against unranked teams.

If Pat White doesn't get hurt and WVU wins...well, you'd be almost in the same boat as LSU. At that point, though, I don't see how you over look a team who played over half of its games against Top 25 competition and only lost one.

The bottom line for me, though, is that if we're not going to have a playoff, reward the kids and coaches who get through a season with a perfect record. It's college.

However, as you can see from the coaches voting, most non-BCS coaches don't think that way. I realize I'm in the minority.

My beef is this: the coaches with obvious beefs. That is, those who threw out Texas or Wisconsin. I can see not including Tennessee as they had four losses. However, in their favor, you could also say they played for their conference title and were 3-2 versus Top 25 teams throughout the year. You're on the border there. But, anyone who tosses out four loss Tennessee and the schedule they played but include four loss Texas Tech and the schedule they played...give me a break.

Edited December 5, 2007 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

By the way, if my poll were magically the poll that decided everything, I'd fill the four remaining BCS bowls with 3 versus 5, 4 versus 6, 7 versus 9, and 8 versus 10.

So, in the games leading up to the Hawaii - Ohio State national title game, you'd have:

Kansas versus Southern Cal in the Rose Bore

LSU versus West Virginia in the Sugar Bowl

Virginia Tech versus Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl

Georgia versus Missouri in the Orange Bowl

As you can see, I could care less about the BCS two-team rule. If a conference has more than two teams in the Top 10, there's no reason they should get three BCS picks. But, like everything else, the BCS isn't about on field competition; it's about TV dollars.

[LongJim]

My Top 10?

1. Hawaii

I'm fine with 2-10, but you're out of your gourd with Hawaii at #1, IMO.

[NT91]

How did T.D. vote?

[GreenBat]

I'm fine with 2-10, but you're out of your gourd with Hawaii at #1, IMO.

They are the only undefeated team in the country.

I know, they haven't played anybody except Boise State, but neither has Kansas, except for a loss to the only good team they played, Missouri.

You have Kansas rated higher than Hawaii in your poll, explain that.

I realize there is no perfect system, except a playoff, to decide a national champion. But the playoff ain't going to happen, it makes too much sense and would take the power away from the big conferences, who think they are better than every one else.

[forevereagle]

...would take the power away from the big conferences, who think they are better than every one else.

I wouldn't say that a playoff would take away power from the big conferences. The much discussed 8 team playoff would, if anything, enhance their power. The 6 BC$ conferences get 1 auto bid into the playoff, and the other 2 spots at-large. That system would make it harder for a mid-major to get in. Contractual obligations would mean that only an at-large bid would get them in. And, as we have seen, that can be hard to get.

But they definately think they are better than everyone else, no arguement there.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I'm fine with 2-10, but you're out of your gourd with Hawaii at #1, IMO.

As you well know, I'm out of my gourd for many reasons other than I would let Hawaii play for the title...

[UNTflyer]

I wouldn't say that a playoff would take away power from the big conferences. The much discussed 8 team playoff would, if anything, enhance their power. The 6 BC$ conferences get 1 auto bid into the playoff, and the other 2 spots at-large. That system would make it harder for a mid-major to get in. Contractual obligations would mean that only an at-large bid would get them in. And, as we have seen, that can be hard to get.

But they definately think they are better than everyone else, no arguement there.

Which is why a system that gives ALL conference champions a playoff berth is the only fair playoff system... otherwise you might as well just keep the BCS.

The key part of my proposed plan is that all conferences would be required to hold a championship game. This would, in effect, double the playoff field and give two teams from each conference a shot at the title.

[CMJ]

Which is why a system that gives ALL conference champions a playoff berth is the only fair playoff system... otherwise you might as well just keep the BCS.

The key part of my proposed plan is that all conferences would be required to hold a championship game. This would, in effect, double the playoff field and give two teams from each conference a shot at the title.

I definitely think all conferences would need to be included - otherwise I'm against a playoff. But i don't think all leagues need to have a title game. How are you going to seperate a league like the SBC into 2 divisions? Not every conference has 12. Hell not every league even has as many as ten.

[LongJim]

You have Kansas rated higher than Hawaii in your poll, explain that.

It's a poll. I don't have to.